Visually Cheating the Population

[mrbisonm 1,622]

I just have to load this off my shoulders....

 

Yesterday I had this "urge" for some chips, you know ...that greasy, good-tasting and crackly kind. Since I live out in the country, I had to dress, find my car keys, get into the car and drive down approximately 3 miles (4.5 km's) to the village's General store, which is usually open until 9PM.

Before I left, my wife told me to get a quart (liter) of milk also, so we can have milk for the breakfast coffee next morning. It was Friday evening. (yesterday)

 

At the store I met some folks from the village and since we all know each other well, we meet there and talk about last week's happenings and temperatures. Then I saw what I was coming for, the wall of chips.....Geeeez, there are many choices, of all kinds of flavours, origin and trademarks.

 

I don't usually buy things in the store that we can eat, that's my wife's speciality, so I have no idea what to choose. As I was definitively lost in the "chips jungle", the clerk saw me searching desperately for my "needs" to satisfy my urge for the chips.

 

"What are you looking for Mr Frederick", as everyone younger fellow out here calls me because my family name is way too complicated to pronounce properly here in the french-speaking part of Canada, the store clerk asks me. I know him since childhood.

" I want one of those bags that taste good and get along with a good movie, just enough for me and my wife. I don't want half a bag of chips lying around for weeks on the counter, know what I mean?" I said looking at him like a small boy who was lost in the candy store. He smiled.

Allan, the clerk, came right out of his protected environment behind these counters and showed me personnally the bags of chips he likes best. As he took one out from the wallshelf, he mentioned that these are sufficient and probably the best-tasting around, especially with a good movie as I said. The name of the company was called Lays and the variety was BBQ. The bag was Big! Sounds good.

 

As I am a man of quick decisions, I took his word for it. The bag seemed to be big enough to satisfy two hungry mounths. I paid for it, left and got home halfway, realizing that with all these choices of chips that I totally  forgot the milk. I turned back to get the milk.....

 

Since it is saturaday evening, it's TV time. First we usually sit down in our big living room and watch "America's got Talent" (in french) at 8PM, then we choose a new film and .....fall asleep on it .....lol

What? Isn't that what most people of my age do?

 

Anyways, the chips were darn good I must say, but......and that is a big BUT......Once I opened that big bag that I thought was a little too big to handle for two, I realized that only about 30 % of the content of it were chips, the rest....?....believe it or not, was.....air.

 

I checked around, inside and out and....nothing more.

 

What?

 

Wait a minute, that makes me think of that caramel spred jar that we bought a year ago and was only half full with actual caramel....

 

I think I blew my top....... That is absolutely and visually cheating the population, making us believe that we pay so little for so much. Hey! There aren't more than 2 fullsized potatoes in there.

 

Here in Quebec/Canada we have laws for everything, especially for the Consumer's protection, and much of them make a lot of sense. But isn't there a law that forbids the Seller to fool the general public with make beliefs and "visual effects"?

 

Thinking about it, I think we see this everywhere, with everything. I call this cheating and lying and I wouldn't dare to pronounce the other work that I have in mind for this here. Also what about that waste of packaging? Aren't we supposed to reduce the amount of garbage and recycling? Isn't this what the government teaches us everyday everywhere? Why don't they start off with interdiction to use bigger bags, boxes and jars to fool the public?....oh......I see.......the problem is making money.......

 

I don't believe this. I am disappointed how we treat other members of our so called "intelligent" species, just to make money and think of us only. I am at a point that I do not consider myself of the same species as most other humans, maybe I am an Alien?.   Shame of you!

 

mrb (Fred)

[Superbacon 380]

I'm sorry to hear this. When I open a chip bag, it's usually at least 50% filled with chips.

[hym 358]

Rory Sutherland had a TED talk on a somewhat similar topic.  It's fascinating to see just how easily people can be fooled with good advertising gimmicks.

 

More to the point, however, chip makers have a legitimate reason for why the bag is larger than the chip content needs.  The extra air space is used as a packing cushion of sorts to protect the chips from breaking as a result of mishandling or abuse.  I, for one, wish the bag sizes were more representative of the total chip content, but the manufacturers will never do that as they would much rather make the bag larger than risk destroying the product and pissing off the customer.

[mrbisonm 1,622]

Rory Sutherland had a TED talk on a somewhat similar topic.  It's fascinating to see just how easily people can be fooled with good advertising gimmicks.

 

More to the point, however, chip makers have a legitimate reason for why the bag is larger than the chip content needs.  The extra air space is used as a packing cushion of sorts to protect the chips from breaking as a result of mishandling or abuse.  I, for one, wish the bag sizes were more representative of the total chip content, but the manufacturers will never do that as they would much rather make the bag larger than risk destroying the product and pissing off the customer.

 Yes, that makes sense, and I was aware of this, but still, I think that 60 0r more % of air is a little too much protection, no? Have you looked at the Pringle's chips? They are in a solid tube, but only about 75% full, I don't think that air cussion protection is needed for this......so why is there so much air in this?

 

Partially it is an excellent idea for this type of packaging (plasticbages) to protect the fragile merchandise, but then again, it has been thought out carefully, not only to protect, but also to cheat on the population's judgements in favour of the seller's their profit.

 

 

 

.....and that pisses me off !

 

mrb

[hym 358]

 

Rory Sutherland had a TED talk on a somewhat similar topic.  It's fascinating to see just how easily people can be fooled with good advertising gimmicks.

 

More to the point, however, chip makers have a legitimate reason for why the bag is larger than the chip content needs.  The extra air space is used as a packing cushion of sorts to protect the chips from breaking as a result of mishandling or abuse.  I, for one, wish the bag sizes were more representative of the total chip content, but the manufacturers will never do that as they would much rather make the bag larger than risk destroying the product and pissing off the customer.

 Yes, that makes sense, and I was aware of this, but still, I think that 60 0r more % of air is a little too much protection, no? Have you looked at the Pringle's chips? They are in a solid tube, but only about 75% full, I don't think that air cussion protection is needed for this......so why is there so much air in this?

 

That's interesting.  Can't remember how much consumable content was in the last bag of potato chips I bought but I think it was around 50% or so.  As for the Pringle's chips, last time I bought any, the tube was almost completely full.

[Wiecher 192]

The air is also used to keep the chips crunchy and nice. I believe it's Nitrogen. 
And I don't know how they do it on the American continent, but where I live, prices of chips (and many other products) are by weight (or liter, when it's about liquids). When in the supermarket, there's a tag with the price on it, and below, in smaller letters, there's a price per kilo, so you can compare all kinds of products to the same standard.

[mrbisonm 1,622]

The air is also used to keep the chips crunchy and nice. I believe it's Nitrogen. 

And I don't know how they do it on the American continent, but where I live, prices of chips (and many other products) are by weight (or liter, when it's about liquids). When in the supermarket, there's a tag with the price on it, and below, in smaller letters, there's a price per kilo, so you can compare all kinds of products to the same standard.

 

I think most people don't even check the weight, they go by looks, if it looks big, good and fresh, they'll buy it. That is how the average consumer thinks. Same for me.

 

As I saw the big bag, I thought we had enough, but there's was just enough in that bag for me, so both my wife and I didn't have the amount we would have liked. Maybe it's the Company who is like this, who knows..........I feel like I got cheated on it though.

 

It's not only the chips, almost everything you buy is presented visually to please us with packaging and we get our first impressions with either the beauty and the size of the containers. All visual cheat......that was my point here.

 

Anyway, now I fell better, having talked about it... lol

 

mrb

[SAVAGExPHOENIX 955]

You just made me really hungry for chips, sir. I think I'll head down to the store and get some.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I have noticed the packages of packaged smoked sausage are now 12oz.

down from 14 recently and 16 before that.

[Cobraroll 138]

Also, concerning chips: The bags are filled quite quickly, by a machine. A great load of chips are dumped into the bag at once, filling it up, more or less. Then the bag is sealed. The process takes only a few seconds, being an automated manufacturing process after all. Time efficiency is of vital importance if you want to make money packing something.

 

However, when "thrown" into the bag like that, the chips are packed randomly in a not very space-efficient way. There will be many large, empty air pockets between the chips in the bag. Contrast Pringles, for instance, where the chips are stacked and no room goes to waste. Later on, the bag will be shaken a lot during handling and transport. The chips will break, the pieces settle, the empty pockets collapse like houses of cards. The chips all fall into a more space-efficient heap at the bottom of the bag. The bag might have appeared full when it was filled, but that was due to inefficient, random packaging as a result of the quick packing process.

 

Filling the bag completely would require the chips to be packed in the most space-efficient way from the get go, but that isn't compatible with a high-tempo packing process. The end result is a bag that appears to the customer as being mostly empty upon arrival. However, be assured that it was full once. Its entropy just increased between the moment of packaging and the moment you open it.

[Meg 368]

Packaging is indeed visually misleading these days.   But some things, like chips and cereal, are sold by weight, not volume. 

 

Hym is right:  they deliberately put air in the package to protect the chips from breaking.

 

I remember reading the cereal box as a kid and seeing those words "sold by weight, not volume" and not understanding what they meant.

 

But, as Wiecher says, the key is to look at price per unit -- ounce, kilo, pound, liter, quart, whatever -- when comparing products.

[timmie 988]

Crisps! Not chips! (Sorry for trolling )

 

Interesting to read, I think this is a frustration for many people, the fact that there's always a lot of air in packets of crisps. But after reading your comments it seems there are very good reasons for it.

 

Now I am hungry for crisps, but I don't have any and it is nearly 11 pm

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Crisps?  Only in some members of the Commonwealth of Nations, I'm afraid.  Anyway ...

 

Do it yourself Chips (or Crisps if you prefer).

 

You will need:

A wok with a good means of controlling the temperature.  Mine is electric with a probe.

A slotted spoon or a screen spoon to get the chips out of the wok.

A tray covered with paper towels to absorb surplus oil -- probably a couple of layers.

A means to slice the potatoes thinly and uniformly.  Either a very good eye with a sharp chef knife or a mandoline.  I have the latter.

 

Now, these have no preservatives of any kind, and are best served warm.  Try to resist making too many.

 

Start with a couple of good P.E.I. baking potatoes and slice them thinly.  While you are doing this, your oil can be heating to 350^oF in the wok.  A couple of inches of Canola oil will usually do.  (350^oF is about 180^oC).

 

Make sure the potato slices are not too wet.  Pat them dry with a paper towel if you think they are too wet.  Big spatter if they are not dry enough.

 

When the oil is at temperature, start frying the chips in small batches until golden brown.  Lift them on to the draining tray and put whatever dry seasoning you want on them.  Give it a minute and turn them over, then season the second side if you wish.  If you are using only salt, do it lightly.

 

With care you can make considerably more chips than you get in one of the "family" bags from Lays.  And of course you get to concoct your own flavourings.

 

If you have a spatter screen you use on a bacon pan and it will fit, use it to control spatter from the wok.  Wear safety glasses if you have them.

 

Clean up after enjoying your chips consists of pouring the used oil into a can and throwing it out.  You could filter it through a coffee filter and use it again, but it gets pretty ripe after a couple of days.

 

If you are going to use a dip with your chips cut them a little thicker but not so thick that they don't cook through.

 

Good dips start with either fresh sour cream or Crème fraîche.  Use about a quarter of a cup per person, and season it to taste.  This probably should be done in advance.  Put it in a covered container in the fridge for about 24 hours to allow seasonings to blend, taste again and adjust if needed.  Should be served cold with the warm chips.  Mmmmm.

[mrbisonm 1,622]

I don't eat chips that much, maybe that is why I realized that the bag had more air than chips. If I would eat them more often I will most likely get used to it and even forget to realize that we are visually cheated on. BTW, air doesn't make chips crispier, leave a bag open for a day or so and you'll see that they have become "moche"...(having lost all their fresh crispiness)

 

Moose, I luv your chip recipe, have to try this. I never thought that we could make them ourselves, although it's quite obvious.......but, there is  the dressing up, get into the car and drive to the village store and maybe meet someone down there you haven't seen for awhile...etc. that's more that I will miss... .

 

mrb

 

PS: I recommend Lays chips, even if you get cheated, they're darn good!

[The Pennsylvania Turnpike 252]

Whenever i open a box of cereal, the cereal only fills about half of the box. Every couple of years it goes down and down slightly. Thats what Marketing has become now.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The package is required to state the weight or volume of the contents.

 

The thing about chips, and I buy them too, is that do it yourself is more than a little messy.  What you are really paying for is for someone else to handle all that oil and other by-product and to deliver to you a fresh product with some shelf-life.

 

Naturally, the social aspects of going for them in a small town, especially in les cantons d'est, is a golden opportunity to meet and greet old friends on neutral ground.  Bon appetit.

[The Avatar 1,089]

At least the chips tasted good, because I have opened several bags of that same brand with stale-tasting chips. Relating to that, another way we are "visually cheated" is my food advertising. Companies, especially large chains and fast food restaurants, dress up their food products and use lighting and other techniques to make it look tasty. They're visually cheating you, because what you order will not look like it does on TV, and it will probably not taste as good as you imagined, either.

 

But on the subject of Lay's chips, you should try the Cheddar and Sour Cream flavor. They're delicious.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

It's just clever marketing, and to be expected.

How is it any different to marking prices as $9.99? It looks a far bit less than $10, yet it's only a one cent difference (and often rounding means the price is the same).

[AkemiAzula 280]

I actually find 9.99 confusing rather than enticing. I'd be more enticed to purchase a product if it had a nice round figure but then again I might be slightly leaning towards OCD there?

 

I used to eat pretty much nothing but chips because (a) they're cheap (not brand name ones but Aldi ones) and (b) they don't require any preparation and are easily purchased, transported and consumed. I use a pushbike because I'm a pauper and thus chips are good because of the strong metal packaging which won't cut on the spokes on corners.

 

I used to also consume massive amounts (I shan't disclose precisely the amount) of cola and ginger beer. (One brand didn't even  contain any ginger extract at all) but this shook up rather badly on cycle routes so I stopped that and just drink water and ale now. 

 

Anyway it is interesting that they add air to protect chips in transit because cola... Is a devil to transport. Just walking carrying one in a plastic bag shakes it up enough, cycling with one requires releasing the pressure on longer trips or it'll explode, and one can only imagine how cola bottles withstand truck journeys cross-state. Considering cola bottles are filled almost to the top, and easily burst after being shaken violently, one can only assume they have some ingenious method of preventing this in transit.

 

I used to like Maccas. Don't go there now cos of the price and because ordering is hell, too many people in there at once, it's like a rock concert trying to be heard... And the staff are so... well like Flanders said about the Post Office I suppose... Although I'm not even social, I prefer the self serve checkouts if they exist... I suppose soon we'll be smartphone scanning items for purchase... Maccas 'big macs' are as big as Simcity2013 is realistic.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

I take it you're Aussie too? (just a side note lol)

How do you find 9.99 confusing?

[AkemiAzula 280]

Well if I want to add up how much I'm spending I'd rather add 10 and 5 than 9.99 and 4.99... It makes sense to just charge 10 and 5... Here in England they still have pennies (...) but yes I grew up in Australia where obviously that isn't an issue as much

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

We just officially abolished the penny.  We are using a rounding system for cash payments, but electronic payments or cheques still can have the odd cents.  Otherwise you round to the nearest nickel.  $9.99 cash means $10.00.

 

Do you suppose that advertising a car price at $14,990 is fooling anyone?  I know fifteen grand when I see it.  Besides, by the time you add various taxes, dealer and other delivery charges you are looking at more like seventeen grand.  I really think it was preferable when things were quoted at the take-away price.  Leaving out things like sales tax is just a racket.

[timmie 988]

In Europe, the price you see is the price you pay.

What are the reasons the tax is not included in the displayed prices in America and Canada?

[hym 358]

In Europe, the price you see is the price you pay.

What are the reasons the tax is not included in the displayed prices in America and Canada?

 

Simple answer: the law doesn't require taxes to be included in the quoted price.

 

More complicated answer:  American laws concerning taxes on the sale of goods are rather complex.  For example, there are federal and state gasoline taxes (which effectively function as sales taxes).  In general, sales tax is not included in the cost of the product, but it is included in the cost of gasoline.

 

When an individual buys a vehicle, the sticker price represents the base cost of the vehicle, plus any upgrades that the dealer wishes to charge for.  All of this should be clearly broken down on the piece of paper explaining how the costs are figured.  The sticker price, however, is not the final price of the vehicle.  There is what is known as "TT&L" or "Tax, Title, & License."  These are taxes that the dealer collects on behalf of the state to finance the cost of the state bureaucracy that is responsible for managing vehicle licensing, inspection, etc.  If the sticker price of your vehicle is above a certain threshold, luxury taxes typically kick in.  If your vehicle doesn't get a high enough gas mileage rating, a federal "gas guzzler" tax takes effect.  Furthermore, this doesn't even factor in that you, the purchaser, can elect to purchase additional perks and addons for your vehicle at the time of sale.  These additional fees are likely not on the sticker price, and they or may not impact the total tax burden you are forced to pay for the purchase of your vehicle.

 

If you go buy everyday items like food and clothes, you may or may not be subject to various state sales taxes (not all states have a sales tax).  In Texas, items deemed "non-essential" are subject to a maximum sales tax of 8.25% while items considered "essential" (primarily food items) are not subject to the tax. Also, notice my use of the phrase "maximum sales tax."  A portion of the sales tax goes to support county government, and that tax rate is determined by the individual county, so in some parts of the state, you can buy an item and be subject to a 7.25% sales tax as opposed to an 8.25% sales tax.

 

This is only how it works in Texas.  It works differently in other states.  In Missouri, for example, everything is subject to sales tax, even food (which in Texas is considered unthinkable).  However, there are different sales taxes for different types of consumer items, and those taxes are all at different tax rates, so it is possible to come under different taxes in the same purchase.

 

Then there are utility and service taxes.  My internet service is subject to a user tax, but that tax is not fixed.  It is based on a formula that factors in my location.  The cable company physically can't tell me how much tax I'm going to pay until I provide my ZIP code to them, because my tax rate is determined by location.

 

In summary, taxes generally aren't included in the price of the item or service you are buying because the laws generally don't require it.  In several cases, this is probably the best way to do things, because tax burdens can vary depending on factors that the company may not be able to control for, so they would be locked into an endless mode of CYA to protect themselves from misquoting prices.

 

And just to further confuse things, there are cases where companies are able to positively determine what the applicable tax will be for any given scenario, and they include it in the price because they want to be nice like that.  The law permits them to do that too.

[Duke87 1,070]

In Europe, the price you see is the price you pay.

What are the reasons the tax is not included in the displayed prices in America and Canada?

 

Philosophically, people in Europe will be more willing to just consider tax to just be part of the price of something, whereas Americans tend to react negatively to taxes being "hidden" in this way. I, for one, like the idea that if there is sales tax on something it is going to show up as a separate line item on my receipt and I will be able to see exactly how much tax I paid. But then, that's what I'm used to.

 

Another thing worth considering is that there are cases in the US where the same product may or may not be subject to sales tax depending on who is buying it and why. In New York, you are exempt from paying sales tax on materials used for a "capital improvement" project. Buy wood because you want to put an addition on your house, and you don't pay sales tax. But buy the same wood because you want to build furniture, and you will have to pay tax on it. Municipalities are also exempt from sales tax when purchasing things.

[AkemiAzula 280]

I would have to say my nature is European then. I'd rather see one price and keep things simple. Ten bucks for this or one buck for that etc.

 

They still have one and two penny coins in GB, it's ridiculous. Thankfully they also have self service checkouts where you can just put a load of coins in at once and the machine does the calculation for you. Yes, i'm lazy minded.

 

I think taxes should be kept simple. Discuss taxes and be open and clarified about them, but when shopping at a supermarket the price you see should be the price you pay. Either that or have tax quoted beneath the total price on shelves for those that concerned about paying ten cents extra for VAT.

 

Also to Moose: Didn't know about Canada losing the penny. Back in Aus they were discussing getting rid of five cent pieces like in New Zealand where the lowest denomination is ten cents (and I think Aus-NZ-US-Can are all roughly parity currencies)

[timmie 988]

 

In Europe, the price you see is the price you pay.

What are the reasons the tax is not included in the displayed prices in America and Canada?

 

Philosophically, people in Europe will be more willing to just consider tax to just be part of the price of something, whereas Americans tend to react negatively to taxes being "hidden" in this way. I, for one, like the idea that if there is sales tax on something it is going to show up as a separate line item on my receipt and I will be able to see exactly how much tax I paid. But then, that's what I'm used to.

 

Another thing worth considering is that there are cases in the US where the same product may or may not be subject to sales tax depending on who is buying it and why. In New York, you are exempt from paying sales tax on materials used for a "capital improvement" project. Buy wood because you want to put an addition on your house, and you don't pay sales tax. But buy the same wood because you want to build furniture, and you will have to pay tax on it. Municipalities are also exempt from sales tax when purchasing things.

 

 

It is mentioned on our receipts too, and I think also on the price tags in shops. Typically, there's a line that mentions how much VAT (called BTW/TVA in my country) you payed. Three categories exists, as far as I know: 21%, 12% and 6%.

 

Your example also exists in Europe. People in construction can buy materials with only 6% tax, whereas ordinary citizens would pay 21%. How this works in practice, I don't really know. There are also examples where you can deduct the taxes on your tax declaration (we love deduction, our tax forms are among the most complicated in the world).

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Nothing is surer than death and taxes as the saying goes.  Since it is all coming out of the same pocket, should one really care how the debit transaction is made up?  Tax is the price of government.  Consider yourselves lucky it is not 100%.

 

The one thing I do object to is computing tax on something after you have already added in some other tax.  Tax on tax burns me up.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

We abolished the 1c and 2c in 1992. I would like to get rid of the 5c coin (it's pure annoyance and little things come priced in 5c increments), as well as resizing the 50 cent coin. At 31mm in diameter, it is obnoxiously large.

And yes, GST is written into all prices. I like it that way, I want to know something costs 10 dollars, not 11 once sales tax is included.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, we are a little more traditional on that. 

 

We'll keep our beaver for a while longer.  There was nothing special about the penny except for a cluster of maple leaves, but the beaver is a national symbol, and Bluenose is a national icon.  Mostly we see quarters, which normally have a nice caribou on the reverse.  Haven't seen a fifty-cent piece in ages, and I am not sure if they are even still minted.

 

And, of course, we still have the loonie (Loon) and the twonie (Bear).

 

Any Canadians here care to speculate on the five-dollar coin?  The the new plastic fiver I think it is a lost cause.