Privatizing hospitals

[LivingInThePast 364]

Being a conservative in real life and a money-grubber in SC4, I'd like to know if there's a way I can modify hospitals and clinics so that they're not a constant drain on finances. Under this proposed mod, hospitals would be "operated by third parties", so they cost your city nothing at all. The slider for funding would be useless, and everything would go swimmingly.

 

Looking at ilives reader, I probably could mod the maintenance cost on the buildings to 0, but will that do the trick, or will it just screw things up?

[z1 566]

Yes; if you set the two items in Budget Item: Cost to zero (one for the hospital and one for the ambulance), that should do it.  If you're modifying an existing hospital or clinic, though, you'll need to bulldoze all the existing ones of that type in your city before making the change; you can replace them after making the change.  If you don't do this, you'll get the Phantom Slider Bug.

[0din234 2]

this is not what u want, but u can increse the capacity so u have to build lees hospitals in the long run and save a lot of money in big cities...i am not sure about this but i usually have around 10% of my total population as patients? is that a fixed #?

 

 

 

[LivingInThePast 364]

I don't want to increase hospital capacities per se, but make hospitals a "free lunch" (would be nice to re-mod as them rewards, but first things first). Cheating? Maybe.

[docj101 99]

Check out the guide 0din234 links to (which happens to be mine).  It shows you how to make the changes you refer to for budget.  I left budget out in the guide example because of the "phantom slider bug", but all steps will be the same (except you will work with different properties).  You can adjust budget easily; you just have to make sure when using the mod that does this, you first bulldoze all hospitals in your city (to avoid "phantom slider bug").  You can in theory make one hospital have 500k capacity and service the whole city for free.  Just need to make the .dat in reader and bulldoze all hospitals first. (sorry to stress the bulldozing, but it's important)

 

The two budget properties you would be changing  are 'catalog monthly cost' AND 'budget cost' (and anything else you want, like capacities).  Make sure to change both cost properties, so it doesn't only tell you that healthcare is free, it actually will be.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Sounds good. I'll fiddle around with it later today. By the way, before I go through with the work, there isn't something already uploaded to the STEX that does the same thing, does it?

[docj101 99]

Sounds good. I'll fiddle around with it later today. By the way, before I go through with the work, there isn't something already uploaded to the STEX that does the same thing, does it?

I'm sure there is.  Probably several free healthcare options available.  Look around.

[0din234 2]

Sounds good. I'll fiddle around with it later today. By the way, before I go through with the work, there isn't something already uploaded to the STEX that does the same thing, does it?

 

 

this one should do the work for large cities

 

Capacity: 180.000 patients,

Plop Cost: 32.000,

Monthly Cost: 4.000

 

this one to, but it cost a lot of money to plop...

[docj101 99]

Don't forget, you can download any hospital and then make it free to operate by using reader.  The same process for modifying the default game content also applies to any downloaded plugins.

 

Again, I support 0din's recommendation for This is my personal hospital of choice for all of my large cities.  It comes with 2 versions, I prefer the transit enabled version; it looks nice connected to roads.  Of course as I mentioned, you can adjust all of this hospital's associated costs/capacities in reader once you download it, if you choose.

 

You won't mess anything up changing budget as long as you change the two budget properties together 'catalog monthly cost' AND 'budget cost'.  Plop cost and bulldoze cost are individual properties.  In the final step of modifying a .sc4lot in reader: instead of creating a .dat, just click save or save-as from the file menu. 

[z1 566]

You won't mess anything up changing budget as long as you change the two budget properties together 'catalog monthly cost' AND 'budget cost'.

 

I've always wondered about the Catalog properties.  I notice that Maxis uses these; I've followed Maxis' lead there, but I don't see anywhere that these are actually used.  Do you have any evidence that any of the Catalog properties are actually used in the game?

[LivingInThePast 364]

I think it would be cool to re-mod them as rewards, that way it wouldn't be quite as simple as the "plop the biggest one and I never have to worry about this again" deal. But that's for later, methinks.

[docj101 99]

 

You won't mess anything up changing budget as long as you change the two budget properties together 'catalog monthly cost' AND 'budget cost'.

 

I've always wondered about the Catalog properties.  I notice that Maxis uses these; I've followed Maxis' lead there, but I don't see anywhere that these are actually used.  Do you have any evidence that any of the Catalog properties are actually used in the game?

 

It isn't always used for custom content, it can be taken advantage of however.  This 'catalog monthly cost' property is what the game menu will show you for monthly cost; 'budget cost' is the actual cost shown in building query and budget panel.  It is so a macro line works for filling the item description in automatically.  This line in the item description LTEXT file for a hospital:  Monthly Cost:  #m:6ad54804# will always report whatever 'catalog monthly cost' is set to in the game menu.  The default game buildings all report their costs in the game menus in this way.  That is why you don't have to change an item description to report new adjusted costs for default buildings, but they appear properly in game.

 

In my example below I changed only the catalog cost to 100 while leaving the budget cost alone.

 

[z1 566]

Interesting.  I've always noticed that the menu readings come out properly whether or not you use the Catalog properties.  So I just did a little experiment; I removed the Catalog Capacity from a standard lot that uses the capacity variable and then started the game and plopped the lot.  The capacity still showed up correctly.  So this would imply that the Catalog properties are necessary only if you want them to show a different value than the actual value that they describe.  Otherwise, simply deleting the Catalog properties would seem to be quite safe; I've seen plenty of lots without them that give the correct values for capacity where no Catalog property is specified.  To use your example of "Monthly Cost:  #m:6ad54804#", all the Maxis transit stations report the correct monthly cost, even though none of them has the Catalog Monthly Cost property.

[docj101 99]

Interesting. I've always noticed that the menu readings come out properly whether or not you use the Catalog properties. So I just did a little experiment; I removed the Catalog Capacity from a standard lot that uses the capacity variable and then started the game and plopped the lot. The capacity still showed up correctly. So this would imply that the Catalog properties are necessary only if you want them to show a different value than the actual value that they describe. Otherwise, simply deleting the Catalog properties would seem to be quite safe; I've seen plenty of lots without them that give the correct values for capacity where no Catalog property is specified. To use your example of "Monthly Cost: #m:6ad54804#", all the Maxis transit stations report the correct monthly cost, even though none of them has the Catalog Monthly Cost property.

 

Well for each transit station you will find these following two lines will work.  For stations it doesn't refer to the property we refer to as 'catalog monthly cost' instead it just refers to the properties for 'budget cost' and 'catalog capacity' & 'transit switch traffic capacity' must be the same or the description doesn't work.  Note because of busses adding a separate expense to hospitals it is my guess they required a separate property with a single value to refer to because the 'budget cost' is 2 values, thus it uses the catalog.  Lots that have the capacities or costs displayed in the menu without these properties in place have simply added the 'item name' and 'item description' properties and manually added the information instead of relying on LTEXT.

 

Monthly Cost:    #m:ea54d286#

Passenger Capacity:  #d:4aa60ebc#

 

For example I'll use a custom bus stop.

 

This LTEXT file:

 

Results in this in game:

 

If I remove the LTEXT file completely the station doesn't appear in my game menu anymore because I have broken the lot.  If I change the 'catalog capacity' alone I break the lot and it doesn't appear.  If I change the 'transit switch traffic capacity' alone, the new capacity appears at the station, but the menu doesn't display the cost or capacity for the bus stop anymore.

 

To go back to the Maxis hospital though, go check out the effect of changing its 'catalog monthly cost', you will see the menu always reports whatever you change that value to.  If you remove the 'catalog monthly cost' from the Maxis hospital you will see only the name in the menu like the picture below:

 

I hope this is the evidence you were looking for that those properties play a role (but of course not always).  I'm no expert in this by any means but this is some of what I have learned.

[LivingInThePast 364]

While working today, I realized that it would make sense if they cost money to plop, because that represents the city's money trying to get them to locate there. So to balance out the effects of having hospitals free, they should be more expensive.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Well, I managed to find what I was looking for and change the Clinic...we'll see if this works. The plop cost wasn't changed.

[LivingInThePast 364]

I found the variable I was supposed to adjust (I think it was 300 and 100, respectively, for 400 total), set them both to 0, demolished every existing clinic (I was using a test city), placed it there, and still no change. I had used the patch manager, placed it in there, and no change! I had used the Patch Manager and everything! Did I screw up with the patch manager and not incorporate the patch? I must have done something wrong...

[docj101 99]

I found the variable I was supposed to adjust (I think it was 300 and 100, respectively, for 400 total), set them both to 0, demolished every existing clinic (I was using a test city), placed it there, and still no change. I had used the patch manager, placed it in there, and no change! I had used the Patch Manager and everything! Did I screw up with the patch manager and not incorporate the patch? I must have done something wrong...

I'm not sure where you went wrong to be honest with you.  It works for me.

 

I made these changes pictured below in reader:

 

To receive this result I picture below in the game:

 

Note: There is 2 variables in the property 'budget cost' but also 1 variable you must change in the property 'catalog monthly cost'.  If you continue to experience a problem after making these changes properly, try using reader v.0.9.3 instead of v1.4.  You may be experiencing corruption modifying the file in v1.4.

 

Also, make sure after you clicked create DAT and saved your file that it is in your plugins folder.  The default save directory may not have put it there and you didn't notice.  Make sure you have clicked 'create DAT' and not 'create patch' while using patch manager.

[LivingInThePast 364]

I didn't use the Catalog Monthly Cost because I thought that was for display purposes only. I'll do that.

[docj101 99]

I didn't use the Catalog Monthly Cost because I thought that was for display purposes only. I'll do that.

It is for menu display only in this case and actually shouldn't prevent the budget cost from saying 0 when you query the building.  If you didn't change the 'catalog monthly cost' it would just lie about the monthly cost for the clinic in the menu.  Did you check the costs you were paying with the building query tool and not just the build menu?

 

At this point you have to be careful because you might trigger the 'slider bug' which can be a pain to get rid of; sometimes to the point of needing city obliteration to make it go away.  This is why the existence of the bug is mentioned so much.  You should always test your results of mods in test cities to ensure everything works correctly, in case you create a bug such as the 'phantom slider bug'.  If you save a city with a modification to civic building budget costs altered in place the bug can be embedded in the city save file and remain even if plugin is removed.  This is why testing the effects you want to apply in a test city is important.  If you want to test in main cities you can always copy them and have a backup sitting somewhere.  Testing without ever clicking 'save' on your city is harmless.

[LivingInThePast 364]

So I pulled it out today (yes, I bumped it) and tested my last mod I had created. It cost $400 to plop (taken out of the $500,000 in the city coffers), though the budget slider was set at $75 (on the low end) but it wasn't enough to get people griping.

 

Looking at the mod in ilive's reader, the Budget Item: Cost line is indeed 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000.

 

However, Catalog Monthly Cost, which I didn't bother to change, is still 400. That seems to be the culprit at this point.

[LivingInThePast 364]

I did exactly what you recommended and still no dice. I guess v1.4 just messed things up. Will try again soon with 0.9.3.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Can't get 0.9.3 to run, there's no application for it. Bummer.

 

Meanwhile, I created a new mod from scratch, including using the Patch Manager to create a DAT, and reopening the DAT shows that my changes to the following variables (setting all to 0) did indeed hold.

 

Plop Cost

Catalog Monthly Cost

Budget Item: Cost (two variables, both 0)

 

I don't know what I'm doing wrong, because in-game it's like I never changed it! I used a new city to test it. I'm running out of theories to why it didn't work: did the RadiusDoubler screw it up?

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

Your mod has to load after any other civic-altering mods in your plugins folder.  Try putting it in a "zzz" folder.

[docj101 99]

As Joe mentions maybe it isn't loading last.  Perhaps a failed version of the mod hasn't been deleted from your plugins folder and is loading last still?  Check for hospital/clinic mods residing in your plugins folder and remove them temporarily to the desktop if your not sure if you want to delete them.  Prefix your mod like Joe says and it would load last even if a conflicting mod exists.

 

Also, have you verified that your mod (.dat) is in your C:\Users\{username}\Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins folder? 

 

As I mention above:

Also, make sure after you clicked create DAT and saved your file that it is in your plugins folder.  The default save directory may not have put it there and you didn't notice.  Make sure you have clicked 'create DAT' and not 'create patch' while using patch manager.

 

It sounds to me as though you have successfully created the mod, so again I am led to wonder if it is in the proper location.  Sorry if this question is patronizing.

[LivingInThePast 364]

I did make the mod work, thanks, but I ran into some trouble when trying for a second step: my plan was to increase capacity, eliminate the maintenance cost, but raise the plop cost, and I remember when I started to jiggle the numbers in the placement cost (integer value), it didn't stick, and started giving me binary values (base 2, nothing ending in 0) for the integer value. Since then, I haven't touched it, and I'm even afraid to start placing my new clinics in cities that already have clinics. Would I need to destroy every clinic in town first? Would placing one completely screw up clinics in the city, forcing the nuclear option?

[z1 566]

Would I need to destroy every clinic in town first?

 

Yes.

 

Would placing one completely screw up clinics in the city...

 

Yes, it would trigger the Phantom Slider Bug.

 

 

...forcing the nuclear option?

 

The nuclear option is never necessary with the Phantom Slider Bug.  Simply bulldozing your new clinic would fix everything.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

To reiterate the OP, would it be possible to invent a new, non-ploppable hospital that would grow itself in a commercial zone and provide a  radius of medical care wherever it happened to pop up? I can envision a progression of such: First the clinic appears in a low-density commercial; it can grow into a small hospital in a medium commercial, and finally that can grow into a major medial center in a high-density commercial.

 

There would be jobs there: $$$ doctors/surgeons and $$ nurses/technicians and $ janitors etc. Best of all, everyone (including the clinics and hospitals) pays taxes

 

One of the bass-ackward keys to this set's growth would be medical shortage. While many other growables would want medical service, this one would appear and grow only when medicine was in short supply. The various links in the chain would need to be tuned so that an existing clinic could grow into a hospital before new clinics spring up like weeds all around it.

 

Should I cross-post to the general mod request thread?