Demand Problems

[djfiocco2 0]

I need help!!! For some reason when my city reaches around 1,000,000 people all of my RCI Demand bars all go into the deep negative, and i start to lose lots of sims. i don't understand what im doing wrong, I have an extensive subway and EL-Train system. as well as a large highway system. My Residential and Commercial zones are completely mixed together and my Industrial zones are along the edge of the whole city, as well as every bordering city. Does anyone else have this problem?

 

 

 

[Prophet42 1,503]

A few questions:

 

1) Do you have any neighboring cities that you are developing?  Connections to neighbors can provide cap relief to increase demand.

2) Have you built any rewards that your city has obtained?  Reward buildings also provide cap relief.

3) How are your pollution levels?  Sometimes in high density areas, pollution can be a problem and will decrease demand.  Enact any ordinances to help clean the air and water.  Also build a sewer treatment plant if you haven't already done so.

4) How are your education and health levels?  If you don't have enough schools and hospitals, then your demand may suffer.

5) Have you built enough parks and plaza's to provide the necessary cap relief.?

6) You stated that your mass transit system is extensive.  Is it being utilized effectively?

7) Have you built an airport to help with commercial demand?

 

You may have a cap relief problem.   Check any abandoned buildings for the reason they were abandoned and then bulldoze them. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

More to the point perhaps is how is your Population by Age graph doing?  If it is skewed to the right, you may have an ageing population that is simply dying out.  Sims grow up, age and die over about 80 Sim-years and you have to pay attention to keeping a pool of younger Sims.

[cogeo 960]

Well, Prophet42 has replied to your questions, with which I both agree and disagree.

 

The I demand problem looks quite normal to me, this is what happens always, if you have a big industrial area, demand for I-D (and later on I-M) drops, as your EQ rises. Only demand for I-HT will incsrease, so you should try upgading some of the industry to I-HT (apart from demand, it also needs high desirability and no crime and pollution, so put some parks/plazas and trees nearby. Low demand for R (basically for R$ I wouild guesss), is obviously due to the jobs lost in I-D. But what seems inexplicable is the negative demand for C. Can you show us the detailed graph? Have you pliopped many Commercial ploppables maybe?

 

Checking for demand caps is the first step you should take. Install Census Repository or my Chamber of Commerce and Industry to see your caps status. Also, what are your tax rates?

 

It's not correct that pollution, garbage or crime can decrease demand. These do decrease desirability (locally) but not demand. Desirability and demand are two differenr and separate things. You need both, to get development, esp medium- and high-wealth. I also don't agree about bulldozing your abandoned buildings, esp if they are high-wealth hirises, which are really hard to get. Better mark them historical (to avoid having them redeveloping to... flea markets and grease pits) and wait until demand imoproves, they may just wake up.

 

My suggestion is try to grow some, preferably high-density CS$, if you still have positive CS$ demand; they employ a lot of R$ sims, and will help with R demand, to some degree making-up for the lost I-D jobs. Don't know if you can develop R$ in a neighbour city (to work in the vacant I area). Try opening a neighbour (connected) city, run it for a gamemonth or two, and check how demand is like (you don't need to save).

[Prophet42 1,503]

It's not correct that pollution, garbage or crime can decrease demand. These do decrease desirability (locally) but not demand. Desirability and demand are two differenr and separate things. You need both, to get development, esp medium- and high-wealth. I also don't agree about bulldozing your abandoned buildings, esp if they are high-wealth hirises, which are really hard to get. Better mark them historical (to avoid having them redeveloping to... flea markets and grease pits) and wait until demand imoproves, they may just wake up.

 

 

 

Cogeo, I cannot agree with your statement that pollution, garbage, crime etc... do not affect demand.  According to the Simcity 4 Deluxe Edition Prima guide, page 68 section DEMAND AND DESIRABILITY quote "Desirability plays and important role in demand.  If desirability is low, occupancy will be equally low; they're directly proportional.  Low occupancy, in turn eventually stagnates demand.  If your occupancy numbers are low, don't zone more to meet outstanding demand.  Read Chapter 10 to see what you can do to enliven desirability instead."

 

So, you see, demand and desirability are not seperate things.  They affect each other.  It is important to make sure your desirability is high enough not to decrease your demand.

[djfiocco2 0]

my Mass Transit system is being used almost twice as much as my road traffic. my education level is in the 190's and my crime rate in 25 crimes to 23 arrests. when i go into the neighboring cities my commercial office demand is high as well as my residential demand. but the demand for both of those zones is in the deep negative in my main city.

however, the 51-60 age group is more then half of my total population. how do i get younger peopl in my city????

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

To attract younger Sims you need jobs for them to work at.  If you don't have farms or industry (dirty, manufacturing) and/or lots of CS$ you won't attract many.  You may have to settle for these people living in another city.

[cogeo 960]

Cogeo, I cannot agree with your statement that pollution, garbage, crime etc... do not affect demand.  According to the Simcity 4 Deluxe Edition Prima guide, page 68 section DEMAND AND DESIRABILITY quote "Desirability plays and important role in demand.  If desirability is low, occupancy will be equally low; they're directly proportional.  Low occupancy, in turn eventually stagnates demand.  If your occupancy numbers are low, don't zone more to meet outstanding demand.  Read Chapter 10 to see what you can do to enliven desirability instead."

 

So, you see, demand and desirability are not seperate things.  They affect each other.  It is important to make sure your desirability is high enough not to decrease your demand.

 

Well, I have been developing a region without industry and farms (only commercial and civics) - and yes, this IS possible - and had the opportunity to study the demand (and desirability) model in depth, taking small steps, and evaluating the result of each one action. I can't remember plopping of a park or plazza increasing demand of any type, at least directly. Improving desirability can increase occupancy, keep a building from dilapidating/abandoning, or make it possible to grow a larger one in its place, which without the extra desirability would not, provided that you DO have the demand). Parks also raise demand caps, and you can plop some and see your demand increasing, but only if you have a cap problem, however this is caps busting, rather than (active) demand boosting.

 

As for the Prima Guide, it is often unclear and confusing, and contains some inaccuracies as well, but in this case it is correct. The excerpt you posted doesn't say "improve desirability to increase demand", does it? Instead it says that low desirabilty reduces occupancy, and this can have an impact in demand. For example, less R occupancy will eventually impact CS and CO demand. However, plopping a park (improving R desirabilty) close to your half-abandoned R towers won't increase R demand, it can instead cause more residents to move there and you can see some pop increase (only if you have positive R demand though), which can in turn improve CS and CO demand. The park itself won't create additional (active) R demand however, instead R demand may actually be lowered, because of the increased occupancy, ie you can satisfy your demand with fewer buildings, if you have high desirability, and I think that's what the guide means here.

 

djfiocco2, pls post pics with your detailed demand graph (separate bars for R$,R$$,R$$$,CS$ etc), budget, tax rates and the Jobs and Residents graph over the last 10 years, to take a look.

[MasterN 5]

I don't know if this has been resolved or not. It has been a couple of months without activity.

Just in case it hasn't...

 

djfiocco2, pls post pics with your detailed demand graph (separate bars for R$,R$$,R$$$,CS$ etc), budget, tax rates and the Jobs and Residents graph over the last 10 years, to take a look.

 

 

You hit an important point there cogeo...

 

I am presently fooling around on large city tiles, and one thing I noticed was, that with a big population a big demand wall opens up.

My region contains about 2mio citizens.

For this demand wall not to affact me too badly I just have to constantly lower the taxes.

 

@djfiocco2.

Try lowering the taxes.

Firstly R§§§. lower it in 0.2% increments. always let it run for a couple of months. If there is no change after them being lowered below 7%, then I'd assume that the problem lies elsewhere.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

My general playing style says get in the black and stay there.  Respond judiciously to demand, keep things even, and don't over-zone.  Keep the Sims wanting things, and trickle them out as you see fit.

 

I always supply water everywhere as well as all municipal services including lots of schools as I can afford them.  I always open with a water supply and lots of power.  This creates a "nut". 

 

Until the taxes pay for this nut on a monthly basis, I withhold cops, fire service (unless forced by a fire) and schools.  A little enthusiastic zoning of low density commercial and residential usually does the trick.  Just zone 2 x 1 R lots to prevent those foolish R$$$ from building mansions and spoiling your life.  I think, sometimes, that these are a trial sent to test even the god of the city.

 

There are a couple of small things that can help balance your budget early if you want to use them:  The Goldiva GDV Yacht Club (coastal waters needed) pays $180 per month in fees and supplies some rather neat on water automata;  Pegasus Area 52 pays $100 a month.  It is nice to have these in your pack if you are having a little problem with making the nut.

 

A few  years ago, I got tired of all the damned water and power plants being demanded, and none of them very modern.  So I added a new water facility and a power plant using hydrogen fusion to the STEX.  Feel free to avail yourselves of these.  They are expensive, but adding 120,000 using the moolah command will make these affordable.  Alternatively, you can work towards them.  The power plant needs the water plant because it eats water for power, and the released helium just goes off into the atmosphere.  The extra oxygen eats all pollution except for that from road traffic.