Advice on How to Begin

[larryparadise 10]

hey all,

so i created the attached region which has 3-4 large tiles situated next to eachother which i'd ultimately like to turn into 3 different large cities but with a shared infrastructure.

 

now that i have the region, i'm stumped on where/how to begin.  i start with laying out the highways first out of force of habit but am looking to incorporate more of a train-orientated system if possible...but still have some highway in there for realism.

 

i'm not asking anyone to build my region for me, i'm only looking for a little guidance on the best way to begin...

 

anyways...i'm looking to break out of old habits because they only lead to one obliterated city after another, so any help with the transportation would be appreciated.

 

thanks

[Turjan 1,048]

I guess what most organized people do is just sketch out the tile plan of the region, then decide where the city center or main city is (CBD), then lay out the main traffic throroughfares (railways, highways, perhaps some of the major roads, harbors, etc.). This is all done just with pencil, preferably colored.

 

Also, most of the time there is no reason to obliterate a city. They are pretty resistant to partial razing and rezoning. If the demand is there, it doesn't matter if you lose 100,000 inhabitants to some restructuring; they will come back.

[lhrob 213]

Well, usually when I look over a region and I'm trying to decide where to start, I first try to think about which city "feels" like an industrial gritty city and which one "feels" more cosmopolitan and which one just "feels" like a natural area where you'd find lots of parks and forests, etc.

 

Immediately, to me, the one tile that screams "industrial grit" is the large one on the bottom (there are 2 large tiles on the bottom...I'm talking about the one on the right).  It is perfectly set up for a bustling seaport surrounded by dirty industry.  Total working class.  The one to the left of it "feels" sorta small townish to me, but it's such a large tile for a small town.  So maybe a middle class city full of diverse wealth levels would work well there, perhaps starting off as a small town along the shore that grows slowly.  Maybe it could have a historic feel to it with lots of older buildings.  The large one above it...the one in the center...is the cosmopolitan heart where I see your huge skyscrapers growing.  The two small ones connected to it at the top feel like wealthy sprawling suburbs.  The large tile at top "feels" like a completely natural area, with tons of small villages surrounded by forests and parks.

 

So basically, to sum up, I never know how to begin a city until I know what the tile "feels" like to me.  That may sound weird, but it seems to guide me well. 

[larryparadise 10]

thanks turjan...for some reason that's the part i struggle with the most, knowing where i should put the major highways, roads, railways.  i've tried the route you suggested, sketching out where i'd like things to be but it never really works out.  i'm not formally educated in city planning or anything like that, just a guy who likes the game (which i'm sure alot of other people are the same way) so knowing where to put things like that has always been a challenge.

thanks ihrob...that is exactly what i was looking for.  now comes the tricky part for me, connecting them all together.  would a highway system be the best route, or maybe some sort of mass rail system?  i've never worked with rail all that much, just highway for big stuff like this, and it never really works out that well.

[larryparadise 10]

i attached an updated pic of the region which some prospective locations and infrastructure.  the black line indicates the highway system that would run between the 3 large tiles and possibly through the smaller tiles that i use for suburbs (3A, 4A, etc).

 

would that plan seem plausible, realistic yet interesting looking?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, everyone knows I always take a gradual view and develop a region slowly.  First you need to finish off the terraforming of the stream that runs north from the main river.  Remember that you can control the intensity of your tools as well as the diameter.

 

Then, I would start with the small tile at the estuary of your river and make it a fishing port with a village or small town, get it functionally sound (in the black), and place your garbage disposal plant there.  Perhaps you'd like They come in two sizes and have a rather high capacity.  Road connections are needed to make neighbour deals, but you can cascade them.  The large one is TE for both street and rail, but the rail seems to be eye-candy.  They are also expensive, as all garbage facilities should be, so watch your profit margin when you put these in.

 

I can't argue with your eventual layout, looks good to me, but take your time and start each new city as a village and build towards your city.  Put your highways in when you need them, and not before.  Too expensive for early placement.  Get in the black and stay there.

 

If you get desperate for cash, use the moolah command (extra cheats dll) and not a money park.  Money parks are a bit of a trap.

 

If you need a refresher on the tools controls for terraforming, PM me, and I'll outline them for you.  Or you can look around and find them in one of my posts.

[larryparadise 10]

thanks moose...i'm good on terraforming, just wanted a little help with how/where to start.  i always lay out highways first for some reason and then use them to dictate zoning, which is probably the wrong thing to do...it's just a force of habit i guess.

 

you offer some real good advice which i will incorporate into this region.

[Cob92 360]

You end up with obliterated cities because you are building backwards. If you want to play the game normally, the best thing to do is to start small, building a primitive industrial and farming town in a good spot in the region, and other town centers you want at the desired locations. Start off just connecting them with railroads and 2-lane roads, because initially that's all you need. Don't build highways until there is money available for that, and at least ~50,000 or so Sims in the region so people will actually drive on them. A good idea is to throw up agricultural areas on vacant land early on to provide some money and jobs for the initial villages, and as the population grows you can convert farms into neighborhoods.

 

Like your overall plan there, though personally I think the industry is too far from the main city. That's just my personal preference though; I prefer to situate industry in the central city, or just outside of it, but that's also because 80% of my Sims usually live in the city center. You might also want to bring the highway closer to the business district when you actually build it. The whole point of the highway is to carry traffic to where it's needed. Unless you wish to preserve parts of the inner city by skirting the highway around it, you want to run the route as close to your downtown as possible.

[Turjan 1,048]

Yup, if you develop cities slowly, dirty industry may just be a convenient stepping stone on your way to some nice HT neighborhood, which can be next to or right in your high wealth neighborhoods later on. I also agree regarding the motorways. If people really are supposed to use them, they have to go through the areas where people are supposed to go, not around them. However, if they are more meant to model real life and actual traffic is carried by something else, like underground, then go ahead with the plan.

[lhrob 213]

I actually agree with Cobhris96 about the industry.  I should probably clarify that when I said it "felt" like an industrial city, I didn't mean the entire tile should be your industrial section of the region.  It would be too far away from your other tiles, and people would complain about long commutes and no jobs.  What I meant was that it "felt" like a tile where you would find a heavily industrialized city.  I could see a lot of industry along the waterfront area, with a huge range of seaports and rail yards.  But you would still need commercial and residential zones, too.

[larryparadise 10]

the hwy that goes around would serve as the bypass to the CBD for people to travel from town to town but don't need to hit the CBD area..,but i probably laid it out wrong.

i can see what you mean turjan about the IND city...but at the same i could see how it might work if i use the middle of those 3 big tiles for the residential area that way they can go to the tile to left for the C and then the tile to the right for the I...but  then again i've been failing at this game for a decade and probably am going about it wrong

[lhrob 213]

The thing about having the residential area in the middle between the commercial and industrial areas is that your commercial development will be stymied.  You see, industrial zones don't depend on traffic flowing through them.  Neither do residential zones.  But commercial zones require traffic passing through them in order to grow. 

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

I can't tell you how to build your region, but I will share my personal way. It is to imagine the characteristics of each city and the role they play in contributing to the region as a whole. Like you I also like to build transit networks first because I hate it when I need to build a highway or surface/el rail system later but have a beautifully grown development where they should go. I tend to leave space at the edges of my coastlines in anticipation of building bridges and interchanges that lead across the water. The downside to doing it that way is it gets very expensive before you even begin to zone. I often have to take out a loan or two but know how to get into the black fairly quickly.

 

As for starting small and slow, I plan to do this in a future region and expect to spend years developing it. I think it will be of greater quality and depth once it matures.

 

But the most important thing for me is to not let circumstances of the simulator or the cries of the sims and advisers to shape my cities. I like to use my imagination and envision what kind of world I want to create and find ways to use various resources to make it happen. IMO if you don't have that part sorted yet, you have no idea what you are about to create. Nothing wrong with going in without a plan but in that case it doesn't matter where you start.

[simMayor84 111]

there is no wrong way to build a city, there are many approaches players use to reach their end goal. i agree with mr maison on the aspect of using your imagination to envision the kind of city you want to create, then roll with it. stay comitted!!! everything will work out if you keep to your main goals. my building style is very much like this, keeping your main goals the priority and finding ways to make it happen. i start out with a very general idea of how i want my city to look like, and then build very much on the fly of how everything should "feel" like ihrob said(you must be an artist ihrob, i am, and that style is how everything i do in the game is dictated). i notice that with this style of play everything ends up looking just as good or even better as what i thought up beforehand. in the end everyone has their own style, i just stated my own and feel free to copy lol.

[larryparadise 10]

i appreciate everyone's advice on this issue, you've all given me plenty to consider, thanks.

[larryparadise 10]

ihrob...what you said about traffic got me thinking.  traffic/low customers/etc is something i've dealt with pretty frequently and it has slowed my commercial development it seems.  when zoning commercial...what traits do you look for in the area you want to zone it, like high traffic so there are more customers, things like that?

[Pobs 24]

Some of the comments in this section make me realise what a $%&^! I am when it comes to zoning and placement.

 

Definitely things in here I will take on board, thanks people who've offered advice (and thanks to larryparadise for asking the question).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

With the highways, which cost the earth to build, you only need to make a sketch and reserve the ground in your mind.  Think of them as virtual highways until you can actually afford them.  If you want to make sure of your connections, don't forget to reconcile edges as you open each city.

 

Since you can only work on one city at a time, I usually get each tile started as a rural base in profit, and move on.  Then I can walk over each city, developing my plan (if any) slowly and with considerable satisfaction.  Until you really need them, the highways can be place-held by avenues as you grow towards the border.  If you are making a good profit you will be able to afford the upgrade, and if you can't, then wait.

 

Working on several cities (the whole region) at once may change your perspective, especially as regard the outlying tiles.  I think this is more challenging than just working on a few central tiles.

[Jim14409 448]

Lots of excellent suggestions and methods in this thread it seems and one of the beautiful things about SC4 is that we have so many options! The "right" method is the one the player is using at the moment or in their next city.

 

Like so many others I like to start small, much like most of our towns here in the US started. Usually there was something that drew people to an area and that was usually a job of some kind. Sometimes it was mining, trade, river travel, and sometimes an abundance of beauty and natural resources.

I grow my towns with a small business district, lots of farms, usually a small industrial area, sometimes a port or railroad, and then branch out. I add residential in subdivisions placed in various locations across the map much like developers do today. Eventually most of these grow into one massive residential area and form a city as farm land became converted.

 

Early on I may have a basic idea of where I want future highways to be located but mostly I let my development dictate this later on. Emminent domain then comes into play when we sometimes have to demolish a path for our improvements such as highways and the roads and avenues to feed them. When I demolish houses I usually build more somewhere else either on undeveloped land in the suburbs or convert a farm. Then one can also do some R$$ zoning to keep the population up, especially now that traffic ways have been updated.

 

Even though the map takes time to fill I find it to be a very satisfying way to play and more similar to real life than some of the ways available, but like I said, the best way to play is how one enjoys playing.

[lhrob 213]

 ...(you must be an artist ihrob, i am, and that style is how everything i do in the game is dictated)...

 

I've always had an artistic bent, yes. I see things with a spiritual eye. I took a quiz the other day at archetypeme.com to see what my archetype is. The results showed the 2 dominant archetypes, which combined govern 65% of my personality, are creative and spiritual. *gasp*  Yeah...as if I didn't know that already. 

 

ihrob...what you said about traffic got me thinking.  traffic/low customers/etc is something i've dealt with pretty frequently and it has slowed my commercial development it seems.  when zoning commercial...what traits do you look for in the area you want to zone it, like high traffic so there are more customers, things like that?

 

Well, as others have said, it's all a very individual personal thing.  The game has to be a reflection of you and what you want to create.  What works for you is how you should be playing.  A commercial zone will develop according to the right amount of density in proportion to the other zones you already have, and how those zones are laid out, as well as the education levels of your Sims and other factors such as landmarks, rewards, parks, etc.  So in that respect, the traits I look for aren't necessarily universal traits that are conducive to the healthy development of commercial zones for all cities.  What might work for me in a certain situation doesn't necessarily mean it will work in all situations.

 

Having said that, as a general rule when deciding where I want to place my commercial zones, the traits *I* look for are mostly a central location - preferably near water, but not necessarily right next to the water - which is adjacent to an area where I can place some residential zones that have quick access to recreational areas such as forests, beaches, streams, parks, etc.  I guess you could say the location of my commercial zones depends on where I envision a large high-wealth residential area.  I rarely place my CBD in the center of a map unless there is water nearby.  Sometimes I place it at the foot of some hilly terrain if I can create a good flow of cross-traffic through it.  That way I will create a series of parks on the land overlooking my downtown area.  When creating a commercial zone, I also look for a "side" of it where I can create a low-wealth residential area that borders an industrial area.  That way they are close to work, as well as the shops they want, but also it allows the middle-class Sims to pass through the CBD on their way to work.

[Turjan 1,048]

If you want to make sure of your connections, don't forget to reconcile edges as you open each city.

 

Or, as in my game reconciling the edges destroys roughly half of all buildings and all infrastructure in the city, I usually start a connection on one tile, then make the connection on the adjacent tile, then go back to the first tile and redo the connection. That's usually enough.

[Lukav Minaev 2]

  i ussually start by build average city, and then got problem, then i struggle to fix it inside city, after it grow large enough, i start solving by its neighbouring city ....

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If you want to make sure of your connections, don't forget to reconcile edges as you open each city.

 

Or, as in my game reconciling the edges destroys roughly half of all buildings and all infrastructure in the city, I usually start a connection on one tile, then make the connection on the adjacent tile, then go back to the first tile and redo the connection. That's usually enough.

Never, never, never reconcile a city that has been built.  It causes a class 10 earthquake, as you've noticed.  I guess I should have said "start each city" instead of "open each city".

[Turjan 1,048]

Never, never, never reconcile a city that has been built.  It causes a class 10 earthquake, as you've noticed.  I guess I should have said "start each city" instead of "open each city".

 

Heh, yes. the result was so devastating that I decided to disable the "reconcile the edges" message. 

[Cob92 360]

Generally, I find that having the industry on one side of the city, with the residential areas wrapping around the commercial core onto the other side, works well as a way to get the city started. CBD growth is fueled by residents traveling through the downtown area going to and from work; as your city grows in size, a downtown which lies at the nexus of your transportation network will easily sprout skyscraper development. This means your arterial roads should meet here, your rail lines and subways should connect and interchange here. Everything goes through downtown to get elsewhere, and the businesses there make money hand over fist as a result of being at a transit hub. Eventually it will become self-sustaining due to the sheer volume of traffic going to the offices there, and in turn will provide fuel for an endless chain of commercial development along arterial roads extending outward from the city core.

 

And as another poster said, there is no need to plan the city down to the location of every last street and alleyway. As long as you have some general idea of what you want to do, it's possible to get very far just making things up as you go. And in my opinion, playing SimCity by ear is much more fun than trying to perfectly execute a rigid plan.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

A journey to a city begins with dropping in a power plant.  I generally start with a wind power unit.

[larryparadise 10]

here's what i've got going so far if anyone wants to check it out.  this city is tile #4 from my above pic. the red oval is where the seaport/railyard will go, the yellow ovals are industrial areas, blue is for commercial and the green is where part of the residential areas will go.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, I would not necessarily have laid out all those expensive streets in advance.  You can lay them down as you go.  However, looks like a good plan.  Now, get on with the build and have fun.  Oh, and don't plop any R buildings.  They just abandon.

[larryparadise 10]

yeah i'm not much of a purist so i'll use that weaknesspays cheat when necessary...but i'm now 10 years in and the black so far.

[lhrob 213]

yeah i'm not much of a purist so i'll use that weaknesspays cheat when necessary...but i'm now 10 years in and the black so far.

 

A man after my own heart.  I'm not a purist either when it comes to this game.  I cheat out my behind.  (Did I just say that?  )  The more money, the better.  I just like to be creative without worrying if I have the money to do it with.