What if SimCity fails?

[gianthaiku 5]

I'm going to be quite nasty to some of you on low end computers, but what I am saying here is true.

By demanding that you can run games on Low end cards, you're holding the rest of us with Ultra Powerful Rigs back, We should be having games that require a Quad Core i5 CPU, A GTX560 and At least 4GB of RAM as a minimum. That should have happened... what? a year back now? And we're still stuck with games that have really low minimum system requirements.

However, the logic of the whole "STEAM IS GOD AND EA IS WORZE THAN HITLER" thing is primarily I think as a result of Reddit, and while you guys may think it's good, It's really not. Reddit's gaming subreddit is essentially comprised of people who BLINDLY UPVOTE and worse, Believe something /v/ posts.

Origin is spyware, so by that Logic, Steam is spyware, Stardock is Spyware, battle.net is spyware, Gamestops digital distribution platform is spyware, Gamersgate is spyware, GOG is spyware. I could go on. EA is receiving some unjust treatment here, I admit, they aren't entirely innocent, far from it in fact, but that doesn't mean you should claim EA's service was invented by the Anti-atheists to turn you all into Christians or something as Reddit would have you believe.

I have had little problem with Origin, It launches games and has a store if I feel like buying something from EA, and Thats what I want it to do, Nothing more, nothing less. I don't want to have to go through endless levels of stupidity and Steam(ing pile of poo) to play my games. I'm happy with using both services.

Spore's DRM was worse, Much much much worse, So I have confidence that the new Simcity will work out, and it will hopefully be better than you think. Treat it critically, but think of it as a different experience to Simcity 4.

[luuk2305 2]

I wonder if expansions will even be that successful though. I feel like if the game isn't deep enough to start out with, people could just lose interest and have moved on to some other game before the expansion comes out. Unless the expansion does so well with critics that it draws people's attention back, that is. But what are the chances of Maxis actually focusing their expansion on transportation like they did last time?

It will also be interesting to see what happens if the community effort on this site to make a deeper city simulation game succeeds.

Just FYI, most people that love Simcity, will buy the game even if it sucks. At least, that's me

[Jim14409 448]

Just FYI, most people that love Simcity, will buy the game even if it sucks. At least, that's me

Think they will? Isn't that like giving a stamp of approval and a thumbs up to a steaming pile of poo? If one thinks the game to be good then they should by all means make the purchase. If they think it "sucks" but buy the game anyway, what does that say about common sense or...?

If the new Sim City, so-called, fails we have SC4 and the great mods. No disaster for many of us, but EA may disagree. My wallet is closed on this one.

[macvirt 361]

I'm going to be quite nasty to some of you on low end computers, but what I am saying here is true.

By demanding that you can run games on Low end cards, you're holding the rest of us with Ultra Powerful Rigs back, We should be having games that require a Quad Core i5 CPU, A GTX560 and At least 4GB of RAM as a minimum. That should have happened... what? a year back now? And we're still stuck with games that have really low minimum system requirements.

However, the logic of the whole "STEAM IS GOD AND EA IS WORZE THAN HITLER" thing is primarily I think as a result of Reddit, and while you guys may think it's good, It's really not. Reddit's gaming subreddit is essentially comprised of people who BLINDLY UPVOTE and worse, Believe something /v/ posts.

Origin is spyware, so by that Logic, Steam is spyware, Stardock is Spyware, battle.net is spyware, Gamestops digital distribution platform is spyware, Gamersgate is spyware, GOG is spyware. I could go on. EA is receiving some unjust treatment here, I admit, they aren't entirely innocent, far from it in fact, but that doesn't mean you should claim EA's service was invented by the Anti-atheists to turn you all into Christians or something as Reddit would have you believe.

I have had little problem with Origin, It launches games and has a store if I feel like buying something from EA, and Thats what I want it to do, Nothing more, nothing less. I don't want to have to go through endless levels of stupidity and Steam(ing pile of poo) to play my games. I'm happy with using both services.

Spore's DRM was worse, Much much much worse, So I have confidence that the new Simcity will work out, and it will hopefully be better than you think. Treat it critically, but think of it as a different experience to Simcity 4.

In our industry we're actually looking far more towards the lower spectrum in recent years, because it makes more business sense to develop products on a basis of "one serves more", notable exception being the FPS genre. With the advent of mobility gaming and the continuing stalling of console hardware platform releases this has become a major factor in decision processes. Ultimately the idea is to arrive at platforms where on development track can deliver to both devices, console and pc platforms. In that order. Commercially speaking it is particularly the devices markets which are - due to simple volume of market - more interesting than any of the other. Keep in mind that the PC market is not dying (as we all too often hear / are told) but keeping tread with emerging market developments. In simple terms, the PC market is interesting for the evolution of those emerging economies as a road towards devices type of markets.

Apologies, but the idea that low end spectrum users are holding back development for higher end spectrum users is a myth. A common one, but still a myth. Even within the PC domain we are very careful to consider the growing volume of embedded / on board GPU elements (IGP) as opposed to the specialised niche of dedicated GPU elements. You'd be surprised to find out the demand volumes for gaming products on OEM desktop tracks which do not feature dedicated GPU's but which are increasingly the mainstay part of desktop sales to consumers. It's simple math, there are more of those than there are others. So even on the PC platform there are different variables than we may think at first glance.

Glassbox is actually an interesting development in these regards. Especially considering its origins, and the technical capabilities. For a core element like Glassbox it makes more technical and business sense for further development of that engine (so to speak) to a) let it be guided primarily on a venture basis (product builds engine so to speak) and b) to minimise the client footprint through cloud computing concepts for the future. Not that Glassbox is the only such development, in the future we will see more of these things where ultimately a lot of the "work" is handled server side with the client side handling reception and translation from data to visual only. And yes, in a strict commercial sense it makes more sense to ensure that (while keeping in tune with technical evolution) the lower end spectrum is a guiding element in decision processes. Just not the debate of GPU X versus Y, but far more the balance between dedicated and on board GPU - where it comes to the PC platform.

By the way, with emerging economies being more interesting than established economies these days it should be no surprise that it is relatively easy to meet considerations resulting from emerging economies being larger with considerations resulting from the ongoing economic issues of established economies. Ofcourse, there are exceptions. The US for example as a 4th world country consitutes an inherently split economy where it can be interesting to cater to a high end spectrum, while keeping in mind that there are limits to what yield such a market segment can yield due to the limits that apply to the volume of sales to that segment. It takes a bit of work, but that is what research institutes are for, but for the most part both consumers and industry watches let themselves be distracted by presentation rather than actual data.

The origin drama actually preceeds any and all Reddit drama, this should be mentioned. It is easy to look up and verify. Mainstream gaming media have reported on the issues (and the causes) on it for years now. It's issues are a direct result and continuation of EA policies and mindset over the decades. EA is not receiving unfair treatment, the company is merely receiving that which it has created themselves. Nothing more, nothing less.

But yes, SimCity 2013 is indeed not going to be a continuation of SimCity4. People should not expect that. The types of users which today play SC4 are quite simply put just not the target types of users. They are a resource type for long term and a resource group for exposure targets. The game itself as a product has a completely different focus. That does not mean it is going to be a bad game, it only means that people should be careful with their expectations and take the game as a game in its own right.

Just FYI, most people that love Simcity, will buy the game even if it sucks. At least, that's me

Think they will? Isn't that like giving a stamp of approval and a thumbs up to a steaming pile of poo? If one thinks the game to be good then they should by all means make the purchase. If they think it "sucks" but buy the game anyway, what does that say about common sense or...?

If the new Sim City, so-called, fails we have SC4 and the great mods. No disaster for many of us, but EA may disagree. My wallet is closed on this one.

Yes, they will. Most people do not look further than their noses are long, especially where it comes to their own long term interests. This is the basis of modern day capitalism: embed desired economic interaction in cultural patterning that limits what is known as the concept of common sense. Aside of that, never underestimate how easy it is to make people want to be a part of something, even if that means their "only" "power" is to break open their wallet.

[SirChick 184]

Initially i was going to pre-order but i changed my mind when the always online came about, my internet is not exactly the most stable. Equally i don't want to use up my monthly cap for a game when i need it for more important things than games.

[DazzaDazza 29]

doint think it will ues up alot of your download limit, when playing Mass Effect it also has to be conted to Origin, when it drops out you carnt seem to accesse you downoaded content, and Multyplayer and thats about it

[SirChick 184]

They said because of the engine it will limit the city size to prevent performance drops, so the engine simulation data must be quite alot otherwise i cannot see why they cannot make a city the same size as CitiesXL. Without any issues. If all cities effect all other cities this must be the case.

That was mentioned here:

[macvirt 361]

They said because of the engine it will limit the city size to prevent performance drops, so the engine simulation data must be quite alot otherwise i cannot see why they cannot make a city the same size as CitiesXL. Without any issues. If all cities effect all other cities this must be the case.

That was mentioned here:

http://www.simtropol...city-sizes-r299

Marketing talk. Just about every product release takes that angle pre-release, notable exception being the FPS titles. Glassbox is an ongoing development track, evolving on a per product basis. Considering where its origins are - and a little common industry logic - the reasoning is simple: SC2013 is a progression using an engine adapted for specific targets but limited by the resources allocated for that part of the project / venture.

The marketing angle added is always that of emphasis on providing "insights" into all that goes on under the hood, how awesome that is for players and how realistic it is going to be and how much we want to ensure an absolutely stable smooth and shiny experience. While in fact it's a simple case of "ok guys, we've got X resources for this project, we can use this and that from the previous one, so we're going to design for these capabilities and anything above that will be part of a next project".

On the bright side, if Maxis are a little bit commercially savvy they will use secondary developments and sales as such next projects. For example expansion packs, feature and content packs and so forth. If not, then it'll be a case of the next SimCity, or the next SimLife and so forth.

[SirChick 184]

They said because of the engine it will limit the city size to prevent performance drops, so the engine simulation data must be quite alot otherwise i cannot see why they cannot make a city the same size as CitiesXL. Without any issues. If all cities effect all other cities this must be the case.

That was mentioned here:

http://www.simtropol...city-sizes-r299

Marketing talk. Just about every product release takes that angle pre-release, notable exception being the FPS titles. Glassbox is an ongoing development track, evolving on a per product basis. Considering where its origins are - and a little common industry logic - the reasoning is simple: SC2013 is a progression using an engine adapted for specific targets but limited by the resources allocated for that part of the project / venture.

The marketing angle added is always that of emphasis on providing "insights" into all that goes on under the hood, how awesome that is for players and how realistic it is going to be and how much we want to ensure an absolutely stable smooth and shiny experience. While in fact it's a simple case of "ok guys, we've got X resources for this project, we can use this and that from the previous one, so we're going to design for these capabilities and anything above that will be part of a next project".

On the bright side, if Maxis are a little bit commercially savvy they will use secondary developments and sales as such next projects. For example expansion packs, feature and content packs and so forth. If not, then it'll be a case of the next SimCity, or the next SimLife and so forth.

Size of a city doesn't add resources, unless they think a larger cities means we need more unique looking buildings but i don't agree with that....I think if any thing they did it to appeal to a wider computer range (is the game on console too?) that would also explain a fair bit - more sales more profit.

Also they could surprise and change the 2km limit if they want to be truely nice to us

[BravoGreenONE 120]

Given the numerous letdowns as a city simulator ( I.e limited tile size, disconjointed regions, lack of control over transportation options,ect), will the resource management provide an enjoyable, albeit different, experience. Perhaps what we are getting is not Simcity, but a modern day "Caesar V".

As a fan of Caesar V, I enjoyed the resource management and visual aspect of that aspect immensely. IMHO Caesar did a better Job with the visual effects than Anno, as the player could view the product at all stages, from raw materials to finished products. The prosperity of the city could be seen through the overflowing warehouses stacked with goods of each type. Will Simcity deliever this? If Simcity cannot deliver as a sufficient city simulator, will the resource management make up the balance?

[Architechnid 186]

Financially speaking, I believe that this game will be a success, due to the resource management, as well as the GlassBox engine, among other factors. If you are asking if this game will be satisfying to the traditional SimCity fan, I believe it will depend on the fan. For many, it will not, as the thing that those in this category find most enjoyable is lacking: Creating a simulation of the built environment as it would exist if they were given "the conch". For those simply looking for a fun game: sure, if the resource management aspect is considered fun by them.

[macvirt 361]

In commercial terms is there no chance for the product to fail, what is possible is that in the subjective and individual reception of the product people may find the product to not deliver according to their respective expectations. Ofcourse, a big factor there can easily be confusion as to what the product is - it is not the next SC4, it is not an SC5 evolution of SC4, it is a product designed and marketed for today. For the different trends and developments of user types and market mechanisms.

Someone would might feel the game to be not as perfectly in tune with expectations can ofcourse find new points of satisfaction with the game. I would hope so, the game is definately different and it does aim to create a new set of experiences. Those may very well be or become appealing to the player. Good game design tends to provide for such user behaviour adjustment / discovery paths. I don't doubt that Maxis will have put at least some though in to that, after all they do come from a certain base with previous productions.

It's a personal decision / challenge either way. Each to his or her own.

[The Wrench 24]

One answer:

Who knows?

Before playing SC4, I was filling up my free time with Caesar 3, and I have to say that THAT was the best game that Sierra's City Building Series. With the new SC having resource management, it will be quite an experience if I ever get to play it

[jmk00001 2]

Maybe I'm not the typical gamer, hardcore or casual or whatever, but there are a couple games series I have loved for many years, decades even: SimCity, Age of Empires, and Civilization. I loved SimCity 4, but ran into it's limits....even it's map size was too small, and I was anxiously waiting for this new version to come out. In SC4, I was already thinking to myself I wanted the whole region unlocked so I could build a "real" city. I was already thinking, what city of 25,000 citizens has skyscrapers?? Unrealistic. So, after hearing about this new SimCity, it appears that rather than fixing these things, they've actually take a couple steps backwards. Hugely disappointing. Now, the maps are even smaller, and from the promotional videos, you can have a city of 18,000 that has as many skyscrapers as a city of millions in real life. Instead of going deeper, higher, better, more advanced, they're dumbing it down. It seems they're target audience is 9 year-olds...when, as far as I've been able to tell, the gamer demographics show average purchasers are closer to 30 years old. One promo video shows clicking on a Sim and it says he's "going to buy a new suit." I don't know about any of you, but if you're 30 years old, and you actually want to click on a little citizen in your city and give two flying @()#%s about your sims personal life, you're an imbecile. They are simply trying to make this game less like SimCity and more like the other Sim games.

AOE did this same crap too...they took a good game, dumbed it down, and made it into a cartoonish children's online game. Seems they simply don't make games for intelligent adults anymore. Personally, I don't care if a game is online or not, as long as it has the CONTENT I want. Deliver that content anyway you want, but deliver it. Online, disc, wireless cell signal, whatever....just don't make all the games for 10 year olds. I'm not interested in where my little f-ing sim citizens go in there cars, I want to build and run a CITY, not some dinky little 2k x 2k TOWN. Anyone knows of any good games geared for the above-10 crowd, let me know, because I won't be playing this piece of @!&#.

[macvirt 361]

Maybe I'm not the typical gamer, hardcore or casual or whatever, but there are a couple games series I have loved for many years, decades even: SimCity, Age of Empires, and Civilization. I loved SimCity 4, but ran into it's limits....even it's map size was too small, and I was anxiously waiting for this new version to come out. In SC4, I was already thinking to myself I wanted the whole region unlocked so I could build a "real" city. I was already thinking, what city of 25,000 citizens has skyscrapers?? Unrealistic. So, after hearing about this new SimCity, it appears that rather than fixing these things, they've actually take a couple steps backwards. Hugely disappointing. Now, the maps are even smaller, and from the promotional videos, you can have a city of 18,000 that has as many skyscrapers as a city of millions in real life. Instead of going deeper, higher, better, more advanced, they're dumbing it down. It seems they're target audience is 9 year-olds...when, as far as I've been able to tell, the gamer demographics show average purchasers are closer to 30 years old. One promo video shows clicking on a Sim and it says he's "going to buy a new suit." I don't know about any of you, but if you're 30 years old, and you actually want to click on a little citizen in your city and give two flying @()#%s about your sims personal life, you're an imbecile. They are simply trying to make this game less like SimCity and more like the other Sim games.

AOE did this same crap too...they took a good game, dumbed it down, and made it into a cartoonish children's online game. Seems they simply don't make games for intelligent adults anymore. Personally, I don't care if a game is online or not, as long as it has the CONTENT I want. Deliver that content anyway you want, but deliver it. Online, disc, wireless cell signal, whatever....just don't make all the games for 10 year olds. I'm not interested in where my little f-ing sim citizens go in there cars, I want to build and run a CITY, not some dinky little 2k x 2k TOWN. Anyone knows of any good games geared for the above-10 crowd, let me know, because I won't be playing this piece of @!&#.

Yes, well, that is where they figured out that DLC is the right track for more than just shallow shiny. It is also a valid means (commercially) for catering to what is known as "core" users and "mature" users. Trouble is, that is secondary to meeting initial commercial goals first. Yes, I'd love to see that the other way around, or even in balance. Not many studios have figured that out yet though. Firaxis learned this with the aftermath of the Civ V release (and ended up adjusting DLC planning), but in terms of simulation / strategy gaming products that is about it. On the bright side, Maxis do invest in doing homework, it is quite possible that they have looked at that situation and have worked out how to learn from other people's mistakes and not reinvent the wheel. Thus at least potentially working out options for a DLC roadmap with balance for both widening and deepening the game after release.

Overall though, yeah, there is a definite trend of dumbing down. But that is not the gaming industry. It is called culture, or civilisation. It is the trend these days, wether that is the entertainment industry, the gaming industry, heck even the food industry Dumb sells, to more and faster. And it costs less if you don't have customers that invest in their purchases.

[jmk00001 2]

Great point, macvirt, about it not being isolated to the gaming industry. I guess my disappointment is just like that feeling I get while flipping through the channels wondering what kind of people actually watch some of that garbage. Another symptom of the dumbing down of society. No reason to think any industry can be immune to that.

Hope you're right about the DLC possibly "fixing" some of what will no doubt be lacking. At least civ 5 allows mods, where I've been able to add some good stuff. Seems this new SimCity will not allow the same kind of mods, since even when you play alone you are still interacting with the rest of the world through leaderboards and resources. Seems any significant mods would make things unfair and/or unstable unless everyone had them.

[NBAFAN1 28]

The new SC will have a really hard time beating Anno 2070 at resource management. And Ceaser is terrible, the game's walkers make vanilla SC4's path finding system look like a genius.

[arosta1 0]

The base game will sell like hotcakes(or at least outsell SC4 at launch), the first expansion will be a success, the second will be from lukewarm to tepid despite adding highways and removing the online requirement, and the third will sell worse than Psychonauts and fade into Seihou levels of obscurity within hours of launch. A fourth expansion will be planned and enter development, but be cancelled a week before it is ready to be revealed. Then people will make a NAM for the game and the next Simcity will be an online reboot that will be revealed in August 2022 and launched in June 2023. Repeat ad infinitum, Changing only the dates and the number of expansions each game has.

I'm a little new to this sort of thing. I expect there will be expansions alright but is it actually possible to remove the online requirement from a game such as this? If so, then I may reconsider buying it. DO you think it'd likey that they will remove it?

[Xenocity 343]

The base game will sell like hotcakes(or at least outsell SC4 at launch), the first expansion will be a success, the second will be from lukewarm to tepid despite adding highways and removing the online requirement, and the third will sell worse than Psychonauts and fade into Seihou levels of obscurity within hours of launch. A fourth expansion will be planned and enter development, but be cancelled a week before it is ready to be revealed. Then people will make a NAM for the game and the next Simcity will be an online reboot that will be revealed in August 2022 and launched in June 2023. Repeat ad infinitum, Changing only the dates and the number of expansions each game has.

I'm a little new to this sort of thing. I expect there will be expansions alright but is it actually possible to remove the online requirement from a game such as this? If so, then I may reconsider buying it. DO you think it'd likey that they will remove it?

Probably in time.

Most games get offline modes once their servers shut down (once the successors are out).

[arosta1 0]

The base game will sell like hotcakes(or at least outsell SC4 at launch), the first expansion will be a success, the second will be from lukewarm to tepid despite adding highways and removing the online requirement, and the third will sell worse than Psychonauts and fade into Seihou levels of obscurity within hours of launch. A fourth expansion will be planned and enter development, but be cancelled a week before it is ready to be revealed. Then people will make a NAM for the game and the next Simcity will be an online reboot that will be revealed in August 2022 and launched in June 2023. Repeat ad infinitum, Changing only the dates and the number of expansions each game has.

I'm a little new to this sort of thing. I expect there will be expansions alright but is it actually possible to remove the online requirement from a game such as this? If so, then I may reconsider buying it. DO you think it'd likey that they will remove it?

Probably in time.

Most games get offline modes once their servers shut down (once the successors are out).

I live in hope Internet aside it does look like a good game

[P*Funk 12]

However, the logic of the whole "STEAM IS GOD AND EA IS WORZE THAN HITLER" thing is primarily I think as a result of Reddit, and while you guys may think it's good, It's really not. Reddit's gaming subreddit is essentially comprised of people who BLINDLY UPVOTE and worse, Believe something /v/ posts.

I don't agree with this sentiment. Its easy to attack the subculture as the root of a perception but I share this perception and I never post on reddit and its all a result of me being a gamer who looks at my options and sees clearly the stunts that some companies pull to try and take control of a market.

I have had little problem with Origin, It launches games and has a store if I feel like buying something from EA, and Thats what I want it to do, Nothing more, nothing less. I don't want to have to go through endless levels of stupidity and Steam(ing pile of poo) to play my games. I'm happy with using both services.

I view origin as a cynical attempt to muscle in on the market that Steam has established. The problem I have is that its exclusivity isn't healthy. You can get as many games on steam as you can elsewhere, but the protectionistic aspect of Origin is not good in my opinion. I don't want to have to remember multiple different log ins and have companies try and get me into their proprietary community just to play my games.

My general opinion on all of this log in services is that they've significantly lowered average password security. Either everyone is using one really tough password for everything they're doing or they're using a handful of really weak passwords that are easier to remember. I'm not Commander Data, I don't have multiple blocks of complex non-sensical information in my head. I however take the last and only sensible option which is to have a physical log book of all the varied and numerous passwords I keep with the endless lists of places that need me to log in. Everytime something tells me to create an account I have to fight the urge to use a throw away password thats easy to remember.