3D Studio Max BAT Version 2 Released !!

[dmscopio 225]

I am using 3dsmax6, it is in C:\3dsmax6. So that should not be a problem. I am running my windows on a Macbook Pro (with bootcamp). Could it be the problem?

Problem solved. I just realize you should not have any space in the model name, otherwise fshtool won't recognize the path. Thanks ardecila.

[dmscopio 225]

Originally posted by: ILL Tonkso Hey is anyone familiar with error code 30?quote>

I am having the code 30 error as well. The last two zoom levels just don't render  proberly, and it turn into checker board pattern. I had tried the merge trick and even rerender the 3ds file in gmax. but still not working. Did you find a way to solve this error?Anyone?

[Bats314 0]

Error Deltree Help my

[SimFox 801]

Deltree error is most probably due to the fact that you don't have it in the proper place. Check you Bat folder. If it isn't there then you have to put it there! It should be included with Bat4Max V2 distributive. Basically this is antique from the days of Windows95/98 but it works fine with XP and is totally safe. On Vista though it will not work no more...

[OffshoreTacos 5]

Does/will the 3ds Max BAT support assigning an arbitrary renderer? In other words, is it agnostic about whether I use the Max renderer or some 3rd-party one? Those nice renderers, like Vray and Brazil, can produce really superb architectural images. We could have truly photorealistic lots if we wanted.

[SimFox 801]

yes it would and does.

But to get quality it isn't quite as simple as switching you renderer.

In fact picture rendered in Vray or Mental ray (not familiar with Brasil) with default Lighting Rig would NOT be any different then one done with Scanline.

To get better results you first of all would have to do something about lights. Those are the key.

So what renderer do you have?

[OffshoreTacos 5]

I use Vray, and I have experience doing architectural renderings with it. I like to use a combination of global illumination in a cool white and one omni in a warm white for the sun. Of course, it's all in the tweaking.

From what I could gather, Maxis' lighting rig looks like an attempt to mimic GI--we used to use this approach in Max before Vray and the others came along. It does a pretty darn good job of it, too. But one thing that I'd like to get out of using Vray with the BAT is indirect illumination. I've found it vastly improves architectural renderings.

[SimFox 801]

Nice to hear that you'll be coming onboard!
I've been using various setups for GI myself and trying to promote it here on Simtropolis. There are several buildings renderer with such a setup already out there on STEX.
Unfortunately since there is some degree of conservatism in community and because V-ray cost a pretty penny and because there are some issues with night rendering mostly people were still sticking to ScanLine. As far as i know the only BATs that were rendered with V-Ray are those done/rendered by me - my CandyGarden, and my rendering of Bixels Tung Chung Crescent
Bixel on his own had rendered many of his smaller buildings with ScanLine version of GI setup. And in may cases it delivers quite good results - far better then default rig, but it could grind to a hold when doing something of more substantial size and as you know you are also cut off from some of the more advanced material options.

Some other people are also slowly turning to use of GI rig namely Ardecila, JasonCW.

I have been experimenting with Mental Ray as well and newest version of it offers very competitive speed and quality – in some ways superior to V-Ray.

Anyway you’ll be very welcome to come and share your knowledge and ideas. If you want to see what has been done to the day check out these threads:

Forces of Light and the Geometry of shadows – there I try to do little articles on some principles of GI and some such

SimFox construction and research - my own BAT thread in HongKong and Asia Bat team forum. There all rendering s are done with V-ray and the last project – Metro HarbourView with MentalRay 3,5

Bixel's HK/ASIA Residential Construction Showcase there are numerous renderings done with Scanline GI/GI-like setup there.

PaulvMontfort's Showcase you’ll see there my attempt to give Paul’s excellent Lippo model MentalRay makeover

It will be very interesting to hear your expert opinion and suggestions!

BTW how is you MaxScript skills??

[OffshoreTacos 5]

I did a fair amount with Maxscript when I wrote an exporter for a different game. It's been about a year since I've used it for anything that large, but I've been thinking about writing some plugins for generating organic geometry. All just backburner stuff.

So, I know my way around Maxscript, but I'm kind of slow at it because I need to keep checking the reference pages.

[SimFox 801]

That’s great to hear, cause I believe there are few issues with Script, but my very limited knowledge of it (which I’ll try to improve) may cause me misjudge or misunderstand something. But here is a little list of those:

1. At the moment it works only with standard lights in MAX because it is link to enabled command and not to on as in V-ray or Photometrics. There is modified version of the script that takes care of this but there is one mistake in it – Script uniformly tints all lights for night render and (in original version) restores they color after it (so it could do it all over again next time around) but in this modified version the restoration was omitted and every night render lights are getting more and more blue, by the end it is something of a jock…
2. Night alphas are processed in such a way that strong banding occurs when used with GI left on for the alpha render pass. It could be very simply remedied by turning GI off for that only pass. But then certain effects will be left out. One solution is to create one extra night light – sort of night sky or moon this way the entire structure will be masked out and natural lighting with GI also at night could be preserved. One negative aspect of it is increase in render time for alpha pass. So some alteration of alpha processing could be better option. This is one part where I understand nothing at the moment except the basic principal – absolutely not enough to make any alterations on my own.
3. At the moment script is sort of one stop piece. But I believe it could be beneficial to split it in two parts – one renders then entire building at each zoom and view and second doing all the cutting and naming of the pieces and conversion to FSH and insertion into SC4Model file. This way it would be possible to apply some processing to the image after it has been rendered but before it is cut. Just think how much time could be saved if some sharpening could be applied not during the render but in Photoshop. Quality will also benefit. Plus all sorts of editing would be possible like adding slight glow to the night windows, neon and all sorts of effects. May be even the entire assembly from say separate day and night passes?
4. Currently script goes into unnecessary details as to specify what antialiasing to use etc. which doesn’t work anyway. Original was written for GMAX so it has to make all the setup for render. For max it is absolutely unnecessary as all that could be made more comfortably from GUI. Clearing and streamlining of script could prevent some conflicts of which I’ve already found couple. I also found the way around it but I believe there could be more. Also some features are still not working – like accurate preview. I’ve also found way around it, but still wouldn’t it be nicer if Preview buttons would finally work? It all boils down to setting right region render I believe.
5. As addition of new features go. One interesting thing could be more accurate NIGHT render. Currently it is a same day scene with sort of overlay on top. So all the too sharp and deep shadows are still there. New Night Lighting rig setup with different proportions between sun(Moon) and sky(environment) could be introduced.  

At the moment I’m very busy with work and all usual seasonal headaches, but I believe after the X day I could spend some more time on BAT. It would be really great to hear your ideas and may be some suggestions.

[vester_DK 477]

I did a small test building to get BATFORMAX to works.

Did the LOD's exported them to 3ds and did a rendering of them in gmax.

I moved the SC4Model from c:\SimCity 4\plugins to c:\SimCity4\plugins

Then I copied the file name

Opened 3ds Max 7 again and pasted the filename in the export and get this:

Here is the BATFORMAX.ini:

[Configuration]

TB2InitScript=CPTB2Main.ms

TempPath=F:\3dsmax7\gamepacks\

BAT

\temp

DestPath=F:\3dsmax7\gamepacks\

BAT

\OutputFiles

;ExportExt=

AALevel=1

CamerasandLights=gamepacks\

BAT

\scenes\CamLightRigs\TB2_CameraLightRig.max

CamerasandLightsFolder=gamepacks\

BAT

\scenes\CamLightRigs\

TB2Scripts=gamepacks\

BAT

\scripts\

AlphaSeedFile=gamepacks\

BAT

\AlphaSeed Do Not Delete.bmp

GroupID=cddd1522

InstanceID=00030000

NightMats=gamepacks\

BAT

\Maps\NightWindows\

SC4PluginPath=D:\SimCity4\Plugins

I have been following the instruction until the rendering point 13.

What is it that I'm missing ?

[paulvmontfort 616]

you should use the 'my documents' plugin directory. most likely: D:\documents and settings\your account\my documents\Simcity 4\plugins\

Don't forget the backslash at the end. ( \ )

EDIT: never move your SC4Model file out of this plugin directory

[vester_DK 477]

Paulvemontfort: Thanks for your quick response.

The D-drive is my document folder. The game is installed on the f-drive: F:\Spil\SimCity 4 (spil = game). Had it installed to the c-drive, but ran into space problems, so I reinstalled it to the f-drive.

I will try to add the backslash at the end.

EDIT:

The backslash did the trick. Thanks again.

2nd EDIT

EDIT: never move your SC4Model file out of this plugin directoryquote>

Well, what should I do then ? and what does it do that take a copy of it into an other folder ?

The export works fine and I will just copy the rendered model file back into the plug-in folder.

[fastburst 22]

Well hello everyone - 

I noticed and read thru the thread on the different versions of 3DS Maxx, I know the following  versions work with this 3DSmax2BAT

3DS Maxx 4

3DS Maxx 5

3DS Maxx 6

3DS Maxx 7

3DS Maxx 8 (NightWindows still in debate.)

I will undergo the testing of 3DS Maxx 9 I have all the preivous versions as well, so we will see what happens.

Keep your fingers crossed.

[SimFox 801]

It works just fine with MAX 9 apart from the same problem with NightWindows as in version 8.

BTW, fastburst, what's the debate about NightWindows? Has anyone got it working?

PS

Bat4Max works also on 64bit platform (64bit Windows XP + 64bit version MAX9)

with vista it for sure works with MAX8

At the moment either version (32bit or 64bit) of Max9 doesn't work right on either version of Vista - issue is with Direct3D mode.

[fastburst 22]

Well from what I can see it works fine on the NightWindows.

I will need to test it further to be certain. 

I beleive the problem is when I import it into GMax. Or it may a Max 8 or 9 setting. Here is what im experiencing, When I import into GMax the buildings are extremely larger than what I created. In Max 8 and 9 I have the Grid set to use meters as that is what we use in GMax. 

I tried creating a simple box and rectangle in Max 8 & 9 looks fine exports perfectly. Go to import and everything seems to be out of wack?

What am I missing or not doing?

[vester_DK 477]

Maybe different unit set up ?

[SimFox 801]

Fastburst, wait a minute, man... Back to night windows, you say they work? From what You can see?? What does that suppose to mean? Have you exported anything with working night windows in Max8 or 9?

And what do you mean when you import "it" inot Gmax??? What is this "it"?

The size discrepancy issue is most probably due to the fact that your setup, I mean you system setup is in inches. You can check it in Control panels Reginal and Language Options click on Customize button. in Numbers , in last field Measurement system you have, no doubt, U.S. - that is a default setting for Windows when you choose you language English and Location USA. Gmax is actually set to use Generic units and not meters. Generic = System units. So you Gmax is set in Inches. Naturally when you bring into it anything that was created in Max which is set to metric system everything get blown abut 39 times.

The core issue here is that Cameras and lights in Bat4Max are set in meters - even if your system is in US units. To fix it either change your system units from U.S. to metric or that you'll have by hand rescale all the CameraLighting rigs and set MAX to use Generic units.

[fastburst 22]

I have gotten to work in 8 & 9 as far as nightwindows, however it is not 100% more like 50 / 50, sometimes it goes thru fine some times it doesnt and errors. It maybe something in my system causing this. I am going to verify my findings on another machine to see if this indeed the issue.

[fastburst 22]

Okay after researching this even further. I found out what is going on with the 50/50 thing.

If I import already made projects from GMax orignally the lighting works perfectly.

If I create new ones in 3DS Max 7, 8 or 9 it doesn't or maybe Im an calling the nightwindows wrong?

How do I properly label nightwindows and night lighting correctly in 3DS Max?

"NightWindows Window01" or NightWindows_Window01" or "nite_windows01" "windows01_nite" or "nite windows01" can someone help me out.

[SimFox 801]

the plain fact is that Nightwindow do work only until the Max v7.5

As I understand Night windows aren't really textures. Their bitmaps are NOT applied to geometry but rather simply collaged into the composite.

Along same lines as environmental texture in screen mode used during the render - it is simply the applied to the plain perpendicular to the camera view.

then projection of the geometry with certain name code - Nightwindow or Nite_window etc is used to generate alpha for cutout through which that NightWindow bitmap, actually it is sort background, seen. This is actually the reason why night windows could be of only one color!

And it hasn't been working in MAX versions starting with 8.

Restrictive nature and very poor quality of such a solution are the main reasons I decided not look into enabling them in newer versions of MAX.

Let 'em rest in piece!

Fastburst -To be honest I don't believe you've ever got them working in any version them MAX7, there they should (if you do everything right) work in 100% of cases!

In Max8 and on they will not work even if you have enable them elsewhere. When you'll do export it will show your error code 6 message right when night render should have started and that would be it.

But that's not all!

If those windows were already enabled in the file, say in MAX v7, you can not disable then anymore in later versions, meaning that the ONLY way to export such a building would be to delete all the geometry with which this feature was associated.

Anyway Night Library can do all the same as NightWindows and tons more!

[fastburst 22]

Right now I am back to using Max 7 and it is still not creating night windows of any kind in this version night lighting is not working either. it shows it rendered and all that no errors at all i place them in the game and nothing happens at all. I gave up on versions 8 & 9 so back with 7 but it doesnt work correctly from what I am finding. what can be causing this or what steps should I be doing to get this corrected?

I made them as a Prop if this helps as well as making sure that the light value is set to "true"

[SimFox 801]

nope! night windows work fine in MAX7...

Your mistake is most probably that you think that it is MAX, when, in fact, it may be game that is at fault here.

You have to have special updates installed to get BAT to show night features. Do other bats (ones you download from STEX) show night lighting in game?

BTW, what on Earth had moved you to give up Max9 and go back to 7???

[fastburst 22]

All the other downloads and BATs I have made with GMax and others that are on the STEX work fine. Could it be MAX itself from having 8 & 9 installed previously that something is now causing 7 not work properly?

I gave up on 9 because I want to be able to create buildings with night windows and nightlighting.

[SimFox 801]

nope, one version of MAX doesn't affect another, and several of them can be installed and work literally simultaneously on the same computer. You must be doing something wrong.

Anyway nitelites work fine on all versions as long as you use MAX standard lights. Usage of Photometrics, or, say, Vray lights for nitelites requires alteration of the script.

Night windows can be done in MUCH better way with night library.

So, there is NO sensible reason to revert.

[debussyman 1,348]

Hello All. I've got a little doubt about the preview in bat4max and I hope someone could clear it out, it is quite simple:

When I make a preview render by clicking on preview, S,E,N,W zoom 5, 4, etc... and then rendering, I find out that the size of the rendered image is aprox 27.5% smaller than the actual size it would appear in game, and I was wondering if there is a way to make a "right" render, this is mainly for dimension purposes when comparing the building with screenshots from the game.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

An easy way around that, do a 27.5% reduction in size in photoshop

[david1314 44]

That might just be a normal thing. Since the perview render is just a 2d image and what the game gets is the 2D image superimposed over the LOD, they're obviously using different video output methods. I wouldn't worry about it. Perhaps do a test render with a simple cube to verify this?

[SimFox 801]

Ill: Debussyman is complaining that his previews are already about27,5% smaller that what they should be. Another reduction by 27.5% would make things worse still...

David1314: ????

who're they?

Debussyman:

to get 100% accurate, size wise, preview in 3ds MAX you' would have to set render output window width to 795pixels. Vertical size could be anything you want/need.

To get Night preview working is a bit more tricky, but also possible. Just enable your niteletes, load all night materials if you use any and in Render menu go to Environment... There set tint in Global Lighting to following values: RGB 128,128,191. This method doesn't work with night Windows, and with Vray as a renderer. Also usage of various GI schemes may somewhat alter result in game, but still it is quite an accurate preview. Technically speaking it is 100% accurate if default lighting system is used.

Sorry if what I've written is not clear or something.. I'm in a bit funny mode after night long party... Got to get to bed.

If you'll have any questions please ask, I'll try to answer them all...

[Constantina 5]

Hi,

The BAT for MAX 2 does not work properly in version 9 because it uses a slightly but significant installation structure. The plugins seem to have a seperate INI file and some commands were not recognised.