Question about Avenues and One Way

[wilmer007 0]

Normally i would always make cities with Avenues only that way i wouldn't have to go back and redo the roads network. I would also use One Way roads aswell from time to time. However i was looking over the prima guide and noticed that Avenue holds more capacity but has lower travel speed while One Way Roads have faster speed and lower capacity.

These are the stats according to the Prima Guide

2500 Capacity and 40 kph

2000 Capacity and 46 kph

Wouldn't a One Way Road each way in that same 2 tiles over the the avenue be much better. I mean 2 One Way Roads (one each way) would hold a total of 4000 capacity and have a faster travel speed over an Avenue which holds 2500 and travels at 40kph. Wouldn't Two One Way roundabouts next to each other do a better job over an avenue or am i missing something like perhaps longer commute times. I use roundabouts so i reduce traffic time by removing intersections by using roundabouts.

I'm curious about both when it comes to making 4x4 zones in your entire city and how they would work if using roundabouts aswell. Like for instance i have one city that is all Avenue Roundabouts and another city that is only One Way Roundabouts. However the one way roundabout city does not have 2 one way roads next to each other as the one way roads are 6 tiles apart with the 4x4 zone in between them. However i did start a new city using One Way Roads next to each other to form a roundabout essentially making Avenue Roundabouts but with Two One Way Roads.

[Fatherted 129]

If you have nam the caps for medium are:

Avenue 4000 per tile

One way 6000 per tile.

But avenues are faster.

[z1 566]

If you have nam the caps for medium are:

Avenue 4000 per tile

One way 6000 per tile.

But avenues are faster.

No, avenues are not faster. The speed for avenues is 50 kph (the same as for roads), while the speed for one-way roads is 75 kph.

[wilmer007 0]

You guys haven't helped much. What i want to know is why would the game want you to use Avenues when One Way Roads not only hold more capacity if put next to each other but the travel speed is faster too.

[z1 566]

You could certainly do that if you want - then you'd have two speeds of avenues, the slower one of which you could use in your cities, with the faster one being used in your suburbs. However, using two one-way roads is not identical to using an avenue; at intersections it becomes quite obvious that you have two separate roads and not a single avenue.

Also, note that the speed is faster for one-way roads only in the NAM traffic simulator, and the preceding paragraph refers to that situation. In the standard Maxis traffic simulator, the OWR speed is the same as that for regular roads, and less than avenue speed.

[wilmer007 0]

You could certainly do that if you want - then you'd have two speeds of avenues, the slower one of which you could use in your cities, with the faster one being used in your suburbs. However, using two one-way roads is not identical to using an avenue; at intersections it becomes quite obvious that you have two separate roads and not a single avenue.

Also, note that the speed is faster for one-way roads only in the NAM traffic simulator, and the preceding paragraph refers to that situation. In the standard Maxis traffic simulator, the OWR speed is the same as that for regular roads, and less than avenue speed.

Roundabouts remove intersections they just take up more tiles but help traffic flow much better, also the prima guide says that OWR travels faster than avenues so you are incorrect.

[z1 566]

remove intersections they just take up more tiles but help traffic flow much better...

They only make the automata move better; actual traffic is unaffected by whether it passes through a roundabout or an intersection.

...also the prima guide says that OWR travels faster than avenues so you are incorrect.

Yes, the Prima Guide does say that. It's wrong (not for the first time). My source is the game itself. The Prima Guide says that the OWR speed is 46 kph for cars, while actually it is 31 kph - the same as for roads. Where did the 46 come from? It's the speed of buses on OWRs, which is also the speed for buses on roads.

Of course, all of this applies only to the Maxis traffic simulator, which you really don't want to use. Trust me.

  Edited August 21, 2012 by z1  

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

I know you pointed out that the increased speed and capacity of OWRs are to reflect the real-life benefits of using OWRs in the first place, and in my opinion, using dual OWRs as an AVE are an exploit.

Arguably, it is beneficial to use dual OWRs when you tabulate construction costs between one and the other, but it makes intersections really ugly, and it really isn't pretty to have absolutely nothing in the middle (unless you're using parks in the middle, then it's OK).

And you can't make Neighbour connections with just OWRs, so whatever Dual-OWR you have will only be bound to the city you built them in.

[wilmer007 0]

remove intersections they just take up more tiles but help traffic flow much better...

They only make the automata move better; actual traffic is unaffected by whether it passes through a roundabout or an intersection.

...also the prima guide says that OWR travels faster than avenues so you are incorrect.

Yes, the Prima Guide does say that. It's wrong (not for the first time). My source is the game itself. The Prima Guide says that the OWR speed is 46 kph for cars, while actually it is 31 kph - the same as for roads. Where did the 46 come from? It's the speed of buses on OWRs, which is also the speed for buses on roads.

Of course, all of this applies only to the Maxis traffic simulator, which you really don't want to use. Trust me.

I"m using Maxis Traffic Simulator for the challenge. Once cities get bigger i'll use NAM Traffic Simulator. I find NAM Traffic Simulator not only less challenging but unrealistic. Maxis by default set a sim to travel no more than 2.5 hrs to get to work which reflects real life conditions. NAM Traffic extends that to 10 hrs not only making it super unrealistic but making the game much easier to build. No sim in their right mind (except truckers) would travel 10 hrs to get to work.

I know you pointed out that the increased speed and capacity of OWRs are to reflect the real-life benefits of using OWRs in the first place, and in my opinion, using dual OWRs as an AVE are an exploit.

Arguably, it is beneficial to use dual OWRs when you tabulate construction costs between one and the other, but it makes intersections really ugly, and it really isn't pretty to have absolutely nothing in the middle (unless you're using parks in the middle, then it's OK).

And you can't make Neighbour connections with just OWRs, so whatever Dual-OWR you have will only be bound to the city you built them in.

When i do the dual OWR with a roundabout i use the 2x2 in the middle of the roundabout to place medium sized parks. The round about leaves a 1x2 in between roundabouts which is where i place 1x2 parks then later i remove the 1x2 parks to place a subway and bus.

Also about the neighbor connections you can just build a road at the edges of the map to make the connection and then after the connection is made you can just drag OWR of the road. The road then converts into a OWR but with the neighbor connection.

  Edited August 21, 2012 by wilmer007  

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

Also about the neighbor connections you can just build a road at the edges of the map to make the connection and then after the connection is made you can just drag OWR of the road. The road then converts into a OWR but with the neighbor connection.

Do that and it still won't work. Trust me.

With the exception of AVE and MHW, traffic going between two cities must enter and exit from the same exact tile, and the tile must be bidirectionally pathed to do that. This is why multi-tile override networks (TLA-5 or RHW-4, for example) have NC pieces, because they make all the tiles bidirectionally pathed and connect them all together. OWRs only have paths going in one direction, so even using that "trick" (which is absolutely useless), you will NOT get a functioning neighbour connection.

Unless, that is, you use a Loop Connector...

[wilmer007 0]

Also about the neighbor connections you can just build a road at the edges of the map to make the connection and then after the connection is made you can just drag OWR of the road. The road then converts into a OWR but with the neighbor connection.

Do that and it still won't work. Trust me.

With the exception of AVE and MHW, traffic going between two cities must enter and exit from the same exact tile, and the tile must be bidirectionally pathed to do that. This is why multi-tile override networks (TLA-5 or RHW-4, for example) have NC pieces, because they make all the tiles bidirectionally pathed and connect them all together. OWRs only have paths going in one direction, so even using that "trick" (which is absolutely useless), you will NOT get a functioning neighbour connection.

Unless, that is, you use a Loop Connector...

Well you can always not build OWR for the particular section. Like if you have say 4x4 zones along the edges of the map you can just leave them as roads or avenues but everything else thats within the inter city limits can just be OWR so you can make them effective.

So which is better overall for Maxis Traffic and which one is better overall for NAM Traffic? I still think OWR are the best overall for either Traffic Simulator.

[wardlitell 8]

I"m using Maxis Traffic Simulator for the challenge. Once cities get bigger i'll use NAM Traffic Simulator. I find NAM Traffic Simulator not only less challenging but unrealistic. Maxis by default set a sim to travel no more than 2.5 hrs to get to work which reflects real life conditions. NAM Traffic extends that to 10 hrs not only making it super unrealistic but making the game much easier to build. No sim in their right mind (except truckers) would travel 10 hrs to get to work.

Not 2,5 hours but 6 minutes, no more. So, if the important thing for you is realism....

[wilmer007 0]

Well Prima guide said 2.5 hrs but i guess they lied again. Not like it matters cuz i would be RCI next to each other to lower commute times and thats how i mange to keep a 0.2 Commute Time.

[z1 566]

Well Prima guide said 2.5 hrs but i guess they lied again. Not like it matters cuz i would be RCI next to each other to lower commute times and thats how i mange to keep a 0.2 Commute Time.

Yes, that is correct. If you look at the Maxis traffic simulator and the original Commute Time graph, you will see that Maxis multiplied the actual commute time by 25, apparently to make it seem more more reasonable. This was confirmed by Maxis nine years ago in dialogs with the Modd Team on the EA site, and you can also see this if you look at the traffic simulator data file. So in the original game, you only get 6 minutes to get to your job. As for the 10 hours in the NAM traffic simulator, the value is set that high because it affects things other than the commute time. Since the speed of cars in the NAM is 50 kph, and even large tiles are only 4 km on a side, it takes less than 5 minutes to drive from one side of a large tile to the other. You can set the commute time in the NAM traffic simulator down to six minutes, and in most cities it will make very little difference at all. Even with a maximum of 3 or 4 minutes, it still outperforms the Maxis traffic simulator.

In the Maxis traffic simulator, even with the slower speed of cars, using highways it's still trivial in theory to cross an entire large tile in under 6 minutes. Since commute times are reset at city boundaries, this means that the commute time even with the Maxis traffic simulator is theoretically infinite. Or at least it would be if the Maxis traffic simulator worked as advertised.

BTW, the reason the maximum commute time is set so high in the NAM traffic simulator is that this is necessary to facilitate intercity travel, even though travel time gets reset at city borders.

  Edited August 21, 2012 by z1