Concept: Building Upgrades

[jacksunny 741]

Hi everyone, this is an idea that came about when discussing landmarks in the game. The possibility of eliminating landmarks and instead allowing the player to select buildings to become landmarks has been discussed. With that said, here is an image of what I am thinking:

As you can see, this is a photoshopped image of an SC4 query window. The "make historical" button has been replaced with a section I like to call "Building Upgrades."

Here is how it works. Each building will have a set of available upgrades. I only showed 4 in the image above, but there could be more. I was going to put in a scroll bar on the side, but just realized now I forgot about it. Each of the upgrades will improve the building and city, but at an expense. Clicking on each of the upgrades will give a detailed explanation as to what it does.

Like we were discussing in the Landmark thread, the "make landmark function" will promote the building as a popular tourist attraction and create things such as brochures for it. There will be tours of the building, etc. This will be available for commercial buildings. It will result in increased business at the building, creating a higher revenue. Hittwice99 offered a good explanation as to how this would work:

As jacksunny said, there could be an option to 'promote' a selected structure's status to a landmark, when you think the time is right. This would involve a risk and reward strategy, as you would initially choose how much money to invest in upgrading the structures's facilities (i.e. costs would represent building an observation deck/restaurants on a skyscraper, to attract tourists). There would be no guarantee of success, as it may not generate enough income. But get it right, and the landmark would bring huge economic benefits to your city.

Produce own power is self explanatory. The promote upgrade would allow the city to provide funding to the business to advertise. It would be similar to the landmark upgrade. The declare historical site upgrade is the same as the "make historical" function in SC4.

Of course, the number of upgrades are not limited to this. Through modding, new upgrades could be added to the game.

Sorry if I forgot anything, thanks for reading!

Jack

  Edited March 20, 2012 by jacksunny  

[Mark Waybill 242]

I still believe landmarks should arise naturally, although the possibility to build or designate 'tourist traps' would still be ok however

IMO self sufficiency should also arise by itself, so for instance if we had a timeline at a certain point solar power would become as feasible as it is today, and certain sims would take advatange of it, especially with an incentive ordinance. However it could also be part of the building process for certain buildings like museums.

In your idea would 'make landmark' be just a one off payment or would it have a continual maintenance cost? I would assume a landmark would run as a business and could make a profit or loss depending on various factors.

My idea was to change building use, so for instance a former factory could be made into an art gallery or office space, a former church or shop into a house etc. Thus a information centre could be made out of an old office block, and uses could be transferable and changeable. There was an idea to sell the local Council building as office space. The Unanderra Community Centre used to be a council chambers. With it's innovative use and colorful mural it is a good example like the Powerhouse Museum of a building being reused in a new way.

IRL Landmarks happen similarly, although rather than change their use completely, tourism becomes a secondary usage, like for instance with the Empire State Building which is after all, primarily an office tower.

[frdrcklim 139]

Interesting concept. I like . But the generate own power seems to be an exploit, but a nice idea nonetheless. If it would start with a -10 though, imagine how easy it would be to create zero-energy cities . Everybody would be doing it. I guess I would assume the initial cost would be high though.

  Edited March 17, 2012 by frdrcklim  

[jacksunny 741]

Mark: Everything under the expenses category is per month.

Frdrcklim: I see what you mean. I only put the upgrades there just to show people what it would look like. You are right, $10 is a tad high

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I like it.

The generate own power could have options from solar to geothermal as well as adding a small wind system to the roof. Naturally, the building could not totally be "off-grid" in case of insufficient generation, which could be a random event. The building could also sell surplus power to the grid. This means that the building gets a power bill each month that is either a credit or a debit to its treasury.

One could develop a complicated accounting system here, but we have to remember that this is supposed to be a game not a municipal business tutorial.

[Disraeli Blue 1]

1331966391' post='1232665']My idea was to change building use, so for instance a former factory could be made into an art gallery or office space, a former church or shop into a house etc. Thus a information centre could be made out of an old office block, and uses could be transferable and changeable. There was an idea to sell the local Council building as office space. The Unanderra Community Centre used to be a council chambers. With it's innovative use and colorful mural it is a good example like the Powerhouse Museum of a building being reused in a new way.

This is what people tend to forget when they say they don't want buildings to be plop-able & they just want it to keep evolving (knocking down the house & building a new one), is that it doesn't normally happen like that because it is generally more expensive to knock down a building then it is to reuse or repurpose it.

Also as an area becomes more/less desirable richer people move in/out of the existing buildings, take Bethnal Green, London for example was one of London's poorest slums, but now the rich are moving in forcing out the people who cannot afford the increasing housing & land values.

Most of the time in modern times (after ww2 in Europe), when a building gets knocked down is because it has been declared unsafe or all available space has been used & usually has to get permission from local or regional government.

1331993062' post='1232734']One could develop a complicated accounting system here, but we have to remember that this is supposed to be a game not a municipal business tutorial.

Yes I agree the game has to be fun but it would nice to know that it could be as in-depth as you would like.

[Disraeli Blue 1]

Produce own power is self explanatory. The promote upgrade would allow the city to provide funding to the business to advertise. It would be similar to the landmark upgrade. The declare historical site upgrade is the same as the "make historical" function in SC4.

Of course, the number of upgrades are not limited to this. Through modding, new upgrades could be added to the game.

Sorry if I forgot anything, thanks for reading!

Jack

Kind of like the Council solar panel projects in the uk but as a city ordnance, but for the government buildings (schools/hospitals/fire stations/ect.) I think you should add them (solar/wind) to the building yourself.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

In the latest video posted by Craig-abcvs today, it is clear that you can add on to a building. Now, if you could repurpose it instead of replacing it, this would be a good environmental move in a lot of cases. Abandoned schools, for example, can be remade into community halls, or even CO buildings, or with a little renovation into industrial (clean).

The idea of extra components for a building should come from a library where you need not add, say, a garage to a fire station. Maybe you'd like to add a branch library. A separate property need not be used. And what about adding a flat above a store? The store owner has to live somewhere, why not over the shop?

[Mark Waybill 242]

I am all for multi-use and re-use for buildings. Of course in a large sprawling city one couldn't adjust every building to ones liking or one would spend as many real years playing that city as a Sim spends sim years living. Which is why the new multiplayer aspect could be useful. If a regional government heirarchy is created so that jobs are more defined and given to more players, then having individual building control authority would make sense. If the game is playing in real time for instance it would be doable. However I'm sure settings will also allow for evolution of a smart nature too. It all depends upon how much control we want, and how much of that power we want/have time to utilise, all of which can be adjusted I should think.

Basically the more complex and realistic the game becomes and the more power we have over very deep micromanagement and adjustments, the more time we'll spend on smaller amounts of structures and infrastructure to the point that in MP mode at least I should think the position we once held as Mayor will be replaced by a variety of heirarchical positions like in a real Council. Of course computer simulated smart Councillors could fill in for these people in single player mode.

[meowza 230]

I think incase they give us the ability to upgrade growables, it would be in the form of a module or prop.

[Sap59 3]

I like the concept behind your idea of building upgrades.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Don't like it for private businesses. For one, stringing power lines out to all but the most isolated building is far cheaper than solar panels, especially if it's a large building. I remember how one teacher in my former high school had to cut sponsorship with the environmental club, where, hot off the heels of a successful recycling program, the club wanted to put solar panels on the school, ignoring the fact that it cost nearly $10 mil to do such a thing. And how would you "promote" it, anyway?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Don't like it for private businesses. For one, stringing power lines out to all but the most isolated building is far cheaper than solar panels, especially if it's a large building. I remember how one teacher in my former high school had to cut sponsorship with the environmental club, where, hot off the heels of a successful recycling program, the club wanted to put solar panels on the school, ignoring the fact that it cost nearly $10 mil to do such a thing. And how would you "promote" it, anyway?

Only a business with a huge chunk of their operating budget for power could afford to capitalize this. It has to have a net plus for the business or what's the point?

By the way, for that kind of money they probably could have got a small hotshot reactor and about a 20 year fuel supply.

  Edited March 22, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[jacksunny 741]

Don't like it for private businesses. For one, stringing power lines out to all but the most isolated building is far cheaper than solar panels, especially if it's a large building. I remember how one teacher in my former high school had to cut sponsorship with the environmental club, where, hot off the heels of a successful recycling program, the club wanted to put solar panels on the school, ignoring the fact that it cost nearly $10 mil to do such a thing.

You give good points, however, it doesn't look very good to have a gigantic powerline going through the forest and then stopping at one building.

And how would you "promote" it, anyway?

How do real businesses advertise? TV, internet. A lot of this stuff wouldn't be visually there in SC13, however, one I thought of would be billboards. If a building has the promote upgrade on, ads for that building will appear on billboards in the city.

[emperordaniel 1,281]

Don't like it for private businesses. For one, stringing power lines out to all but the most isolated building is far cheaper than solar panels, especially if it's a large building. I remember how one teacher in my former high school had to cut sponsorship with the environmental club, where, hot off the heels of a successful recycling program, the club wanted to put solar panels on the school, ignoring the fact that it cost nearly $10 mil to do such a thing.

You give good points, however, it doesn't look very good to have a gigantic powerline going through the forest and then stopping at one building.

But does it have to be a gigantic powerline? Perhaps they could have different grades of powerlines, from massive industrial-sized ones (like in SC4) to the small ones that somewhat resemble telephone poles. That way it would look much better

[JcCali1214 34]

I really like this topic because,

1. It seems the devs are already incorporating something along these lines concurrently and

2. It really adds a sense of control, individuality, and customization to the game.

As far as it goes iinto whether we get to customize only civic, utility, etc. or every building in the game is up for debate.

Don't like it for private businesses. For one, stringing power lines out to all but the most isolated building is far cheaper than solar panels, especially if it's a large building. I remember how one teacher in my former high school had to cut sponsorship with the environmental club, where, hot off the heels of a successful recycling program, the club wanted to put solar panels on the school, ignoring the fact that it cost nearly $10 mil to do such a thing.

You give good points, however, it doesn't look very good to have a gigantic powerline going through the forest and then stopping at one building.

And how would you "promote" it, anyway?

How do real businesses advertise? TV, internet. A lot of this stuff wouldn't be visually there in SC13, however, one I thought of would be billboards. If a building has the promote upgrade on, ads for that building will appear on billboards in the city.

What we've mentioned here though is of particular note (to me) in that billboards (flashing Times Square style to the lone country highway static billboard) really set a certain mood for the city = one that is typically capitalist, consumerist society driven. I think one thing the devs (and us all) could use as a point of reference is the way Tycoon City: New York used the upgrade feature; it gave us a host of options to choose from and could let us, by upgrading individual buildings, create our own mini-time squares or serene neighborhood walking parks, among other things.

I for one hope they continue down this path of letting us upgrade buildings so we can really control how we shape our city and get a certain feel from it.

Also, I believe Disraeli Blue said mentioned about repurposing buildings, which I totally agree with (once again, New York City as an example), and totally goes along with multi-zoning too (IMHO) ...