Does A honeycomb-patterned cities solves "infinite commuter"?

[grstudios 188]

Hey everybody!

I've played SC4RH since '05. I didn't really tried to plan my cities well until 6 months ago.

I started one region, which is now A home to 1.2 mil happy sims, yet in the making I found out about NAM, plopping etc. so I wanted to build another region, only to be planned as best as I can.

I read about this 'infinite commuter' issue - and there is my question: If I'd plan the layout of the region as a honeycomb, will it be disabled?

P.S. The Picture represents the 3-6 core cities that would be the center of the region.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The trick is avoid physical loops in your transportation network so that there is no opportunity for Sims to just ride from city to city. It usually needs a loop that spans three or more tiles. Try to set up your net as a tree structure and avoid any loop backs. Two way routes are OK, but if there is a looping connection, watch out.

[grstudios 188]

?Moose, what do you mean? Can't I interconnect cities at all? Or only four adjacent cities?

What if I connect three cities as a triangle? (see the picture and write what do you think)

I'm planning the region as A=CBD, B=IND hub, C=suburb. other adjacent cities will be more subrubs in the future.

Thanks anyway!

[z1 566]

Unless city C has no jobs at all, and A and B have no residences, you would almost definitely get an eternal commuter loop with that setup, depending on how your zones are laid out in those and future cities. That map satisfies the main requirement for an eternal commuter loop - a loop that passes through at least three cities. You can have such loops without getting eternal commuters if you connect your cities near the middle, and have plenty of jobs on both sides of the connection. However, the honeycomb pattern, by reducing the border between any two cities, actually makes this more difficult, and makes eternal commuter loops more likely. If you want to use that pattern, then Moose's advice about using a tree structure for your intercity connections would be good to take. Such a tree structure will prevent eternal commuter loops regardless of the layout of your region. Its only disadvantage is that it's a little bit limiting in how your cities are permitted to connect.

[grstudios 188]

thanks Z1, i think you explained nonny moose very well.

anyway, i already have a city with a 550K sims - only problen it has (i believe) the infinite commuter.

I wanted to eliminate this, and according to you it's inevitable to do so!

Of course except that tree pattern - which means i have to terraform my region before i started (btw i waited with the development to see if its true)

So, if i leave the honeycomb pattern, what could be worst case scenario for the three central cities?

P.s My 550K city holds 250K jobs and 30K ind jobs - is it okay for a city with the infinite commuter?

[grstudios 188]

Oh, I forgot:

I'm planning that city A will have numerous river forks that will exit at different directions...

that way city B and city C could be the 'stem' along the major river that exits city A towards the sea - then i could connect C+B along the coast at the far sides of the cities, right?

Could I do it without causing a loop?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Your city layout is irrelevant, but interesting. A tree is simply a set up where the transportation including all forms for movement, forms a structure that branches out but never loops back on itself. If you have an eternal loop, just break it at some point. Quite often a toll booth will slow it down or kill it.

What I generally do when interconnecting three cities is to dead-end the transport to the third one so that it can never access the first one directly, but must back down the tree. All routes can be two way, but be extra careful of monorail and ferries.

In your example, you have a set up the will produce the loop.

Since most of my tiles are pretty much autonomous with some service connections, I am able to avoid loops by simply being careful with the location of the endpoints in the third or fourth branches. The trick is that city three cannot have a direct connect to city 1 nor can city 4 and city 4 cannot connect to city 2 etc.

Mind you, if you want to make a lot of (false) income, allow loops. The fares will inflate your treasury if you put in tolls, and everything will be OK until you reach a 400% of capacity point when the traffic dies until the next Sim-day.

  Edited October 26, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[grstudios 188]

Again, Moose, thanks a lot!

Now I have a better understanding of what I should plan...

I don't want to be a nagger - but could you attach a transport map/maps of one of your regions? (so i can get an example)

Thanks!

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Again, Moose, thanks a lot!

Now I have a better understanding of what I should plan...

I don't want to be a nagger - but could you attach a transport map/maps of one of your regions? (so i can get an example)

Thanks!

I'm sorry, but I don't have a region right now that has more than one city connected to another. I did a restart when I changed by general goal, and all my old regions were wiped out. Here's my current region transport map. You can see there is only one highway. The pod that lies between the two cities have private connections. If i joined them to the highway on both sides, I could get a loop.

[grstudios 188]

Photos show a good start... But if I want to build an extensive region that sprawls out of the CBD,

(like most euro-american cities) I can't avoid the loop.

What can the loop do wrong anyway? (Besides false pop&jobs numbers, and commute time)

This is my old region, with 1.1 mil sims: 550K sims in the main city, only one secondary city up north.

As you can see I connect many of the cities together but without too much problems.

I do see commuters that perform a loop but it is seldom.

Anyway I would appriciate if someone would explain me the problem with loops.

[z1 566]

Quite often a toll booth will slow it down or kill it.

Actually, toll booths should have no effect on these loops - they have failed to stop them for many other people. The reason is that the traffic simulator's destination finder, which sets out the particular route and thereby creates the loops, doesn't look at the particulars of the routes - only their start and end points. Therefore, the route is created before the toll booths are even seen by the game. The pathfinder sees the toll booths and uses this information in its calculation of the optimal route between the two end points, but by then it's too late to affect what these end points are (in this case, the entrance and exit to a city). So toll booths will at most shift the route used by the eternal commuter loop, assuming a faster route is available.

Mind you, if you want to make a lot of (false) income, allow loops. The fares will inflate your treasury if you put in tolls, and everything will be OK until you reach a 400% of capacity point when the traffic dies until the next Sim-day.

This part is true. Unfortunately, the income from the tolls is generally more than offset by the disruption that these loops cause to the local economy.

  Edited October 26, 2011 by z1  

[CaptCity 4,789]

Anyway I would appriciate if someone would explain me the problem with loops.

Here's a good explanation by Ripplejet. Basically, it's caused by jobs in an adjacent city "appearing" to be at the edge of the city being played. The distance from the edge of the adjacent city to the actual job location is not taken into account. Therefore, when the distance to the edge of the city being played is closer than jobs in that city, Sims will head to the edge of the city. Now, if the same condition exist in a group of cities adjacent to each other and are connected by traffic routes, a loop will exist that Sims will simply travel around without ever actually "finding" a job, increasingly adding to the commuters.

[grstudios 188]

thanks captain, but I understood what the loop is, just wanted to know the side effects...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The worst thing that happens is that the congestions stops traffic in various places until the next Sim day.

[grstudios 188]

Thanks everybody. Anyway started playing today the new region.

I solved the problem (i want to believe) by bordering city B from C by a river, so the transportation is limited to ferry terminals.

City A will not have a ferry terminal for now, and that solves it, i think...

P.s that way i can apply the tree scheme you suggested, moose. (only the picture can explain:)

[Loney 22]

This part is true. Unfortunately, the income from the tolls is generally more than offset by the disruption that these loops cause to the local economy.

Agreed. I had a first hand experience with the Eternal Commuter Bug, and to add fuel to fire, I also had CAM and Super Demand Ordinance. My main city, which had about 2 million residents, was hit with a massive crash in the residential demand. I deleted the city and tried to restart, but even the new city had a massive residential demand crash.

As a result, I abandoned the entire region and restarted on a new one.