Getting started

[LuapYllier 8]

I have been extremely preoccupied with local domestic fires, exhausted by working overtime and in general too busy to play. However I am soon to spend some time getting started on my city which will be a major, long term endeavor. I am keeping a journal but it will be a very slow one.

My question for tonight is what is the best way to get started on a regional project? My thoughts on it lead me to think that a population base needs to come first like in the outer areas with farms and light industry and slowly educating people and then using those people to supply more higher tech commercial and busniess areas moving in towards downtown. Not real sure though.

Your thoughts?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I recently started a new region, and what I did was to start a small town in each one, sometimes with full connections, and sometimes starting out stand alone. My attitude is that each tile starts on its own, discovers neighbors and enters into trade. As near as I can tell from my file system dates, this project started on June 6, 2011 which is the date I modified the config.bmp.

Here is a current region census with region map, so you can see where I am at the moment.

You can see from this that all the tiles have been named, even those that are (for the moment) all water. Each one has its own personality, if you like, and each one is growing apace. Grand Harbour has the most development and the population is getting to be around 125,000. Notice how sparse everything is. I like to create cities in population centers around various pods. I use various large items to center a pod and expand it to respond to the center's purpose. For example, the air force base needs base housing and shopping, schools, all the usual municipal protections, etc. Since it is a base with housing, it needs parks too, and playgrounds.

When you start a new tile, it should probably be agricultural like my Alba Longa. Alba Longa has two agricultural pods, one for each road connections. The one at the top from Crystallsee is in response to what was becoming a commuter loop. I simply dead ended it at the shore with some farms to dissipate the traffic. Worked, too. All this because I connected my vacation country with a monorail link. Damned Sims just want to ride all day. It is a known bug in the program.

Along the shore line, I simply create ports, and use them as the base pods. Here you have to be careful with ferry deployment as these can easily result in a loop. Ferry routes between tiles appear to be teleportation routes. And you must get to our islands somehow. I use passenger only ferries and water taxis.

I hope this exposition is helpful in getting you off the ground.

[LuapYllier 8]

Jeez I have never gotten 120k in any city in this version much less a sparse starter area.

Do you use power plants in each of your cities or try to develop deals to get power across the region?

You had told me before about the commuter bug with highways. By your comments with the ferries am I to assume that that bug exists for all network types like rail loops and subways and such as well?

EDIT: Just got in to my first tile and was going to start naming things and it is telling me to reconcile the edges...shouldn't it be reconciled already if I downloaded a complete map?

  Edited June 29, 2011 by LuapYllier  

[jacksunny 741]

Do you use power plants in each of your cities or try to develop deals to get power across the region?

I usually build the power plants in the city that has a bad economy. This is because the city can then bring in a lot of money from selling the power, and the cities with better economies can afford to pay for it.

[LuapYllier 8]

Reason I asked about the power plants is it really goes against the way this region is designed to have power plants all over the region.

By the way are there any assets for creating basically a whole city tile of swamp area?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

You had told me before about the commuter bug with highways. By your comments with the ferries am I to assume that that bug exists for all network types like rail loops and subways and such as well?

EDIT: Just got in to my first tile and was going to start naming things and it is telling me to reconcile the edges...shouldn't it be reconciled already if I downloaded a complete map?

Yes, the dreaded commuter loop will occur if you create a non-tree structure in your transportation net. Sometimes you have to take a risk. You can see from the snap posted above that there are populated islands in some of my tiles. The choice is bridge or ferry. I don't use bridges if the island is small because the expense is not justified, and it lacks realism.

You should turn off auto reconcile. Some maps actually do need it especially if you do any additional terraforming or clean up. I often dredge shore lines in god mode, then do a reconcile to be sure everything matches. Just because you download a map doesn't mean it is cast in concrete.

  Edited June 30, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[EyeofMobius 27]

As for creating swamps...I am doing a lot of this lately and I am recommending what I use which is a whole slew of Mayor Mode (MM) plopables.

Peg's PEGPond Kits are fantastic to start and then grab all the applicable extra MM eyecandy that Peg has made available.

SC4 Devotion has a bunch of good MM items.

Here on the STEX there are also lots of great MM items like Cycledogg's trees. If you are making a Canadian style swamp there are dead pine trees in those collections.

---

On the topic of power you can start with a more signifcant power plant and then add to it as needed and sell that power off. The main thing to watch out for in power grids on regional play is demand on the graph. If you are selling power check to make sure that in the process of playing that tile you haven't raised the power demand so high that it kills you budget deals because making that money may be all that is keeping your budget afloat.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

For Canadian type wetlands, we need some more animated beasts in the surrounding unzoned areas. I have yet to see any beavers (castor canadensis), nor moose, caribou (a kind of northern elk), grizzly bears, wolverines, and mountain sheep.

If one of the terrain modders were feeling unemployed, a Canadian Boreal forest would be an interesting challenge, especially if it included the appropriate wetlands and wild life.

[lloydyboy232 12]

I would love a swamp map....

[LuapYllier 8]

I am looking for more like northern Florida wetlands.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Pick a map, and lower the terrain using the god mode tools.

[LuapYllier 8]

I don't see how that works Nonny. Just makes water.

[jacksunny 741]

It should only make some water. Perhaps you lowered it too much. You can use SC4Terraformer to only lower it a little bit and then use MMPs to create a realistic swamp.

[LuapYllier 8]

I am hoping I can find a terrain mod but not having much luck searching for them. It is really way too much wetland area to be doing with ploppables. In some areas it is basically an entire large city tile will be wetlands/marshes and undeveloped.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The trick is to use the god mode tools to raise some hills and mesas, then drop the level one click. If you get it right, you are in business.

Failing that, gen a map withlandscape designer then work on it in an editor such as the GIMP to set up your swamps around the sea level line. You should look in the mapping forum for help on this. With diligence, you could make your own map from scratch, but the landscape designer will help you fix it and generate your config.bmp.

[LuapYllier 8]

Oh I think you missunderstood me there A Nonny Moose. I already have a downloaded map with the proper elevations. The image that came with the map even had the proper areas sort of tanned out in a beach-ish color but once I open it in SC4 and let the terrain reset the colors it basically all just looks green except the very edges. What I need is a texture set that would discern the wet areas from the not so wet and then use some appropriate flora in god mode to dress it up.

  Edited July 4, 2011 by LuapYllier  

[CaptCity 4,915]

...I already have a downloaded map with the proper elevations. The image that came with the map even had the proper areas sort of tanned out in a beach-ish color but once I open it in SC4 and let the terrain reset the colors it basically all just looks green except the very edges. What I need is a texture set that would discern the wet areas from the not so wet and then use some appropriate flora in god mode to dress it up.

Which map did you try. Perhaps it requires a mod itself. Or, if you have any terrain and/or height mod installed, it could change the appearance.

[LuapYllier 8]

Evening CaptCity,

The map is one of Blade's the one for Jacksonville FL, the link is in my journal. It did not say to have any mods needed. The colors designated to it by the software used to create it showed the wet areas quite prominently but now that it is in SC4 it is all blending together. Lets see if I can get this up...one sec...Try this . If that worked it should be the pic that has a lot of tan colored edges around the water. While this color scheme is not ideal for actual city building it does acurrately show where I would like to have the wetland areas.

[CaptCity 4,915]

...The map is one of Blade's the one for Jacksonville FL, the link is in my journal. It did not say to have any mods needed. The colors designated to it by the software used to create it showed the wet areas quite prominently but now that it is in SC4 it is all blending together. Lets see if I can get this up...one sec...Try this . If that worked it should be the pic that has a lot of tan colored edges around the water. While this color scheme is not ideal for actual city building it does acurrately show where I would like to have the wetland areas.

I see what you mean. Unfortunately, the regular game colors don't differentiate over a large spectrum. You can see the terrain elevation changes, but there's no corresponding color change. Perhaps finding a terrain mod that offers more variance would be the way to go. I think I remember one that might have a "marshy" appearance. Let me look around...

Or. if you're interested, since this is a Terraformer map... It is possible to make small terrain changes over the entire map. If you're familiar wih its use, perhaps lowering the terrain a bit will give the desired effect. Just a thought...

Edit: Tried a couple things with the Mediterranean Mod by Cycledogg...

Not a lot of difference there...

This is the beach texture of the mod (looks a little "marshy" maybe?), so there will need to be a beach for this one. It was a bit tricky, bit there is a tiny spot of water in there to get it to show. For what it's worth...

[LuapYllier 8]

Well see that is my problem, I can't seem to find very many of the terrain texture mods. I sifted through 29 pages of stuff when searching for "terrain" and 95% of it was maps. When I am in the map I can visually see the difference between the low lying areas and the areas where I plan to build, just as in your pic above the grid lines show on the slightly higher areas and not in the lower. I would rather it not be beach colored though, probably more of a darker greenish brownish mix for the wet areas. If you look at the areas to the east of Jacksonville on google maps between the city and the beach you can see the major wetland areas are really dark. In some cases it is even fully brown and closer to black. I think that the key though is going to be the flora used. I did find one tropical flora mod that might be ok but have not gotten to see it in action yet as I just reformatted my PC and need to reinstall everything.

What I am really hoping for is that someone with the skills to make this happen sees this thread and maybe considers creating something appropriate. You never know.

[Gringamuyloca 47]

Well see that is my problem, I can't seem to find very many of the terrain texture mods. I sifted through 29 pages of stuff when searching for "terrain" and 95% of it was maps. When I am in the map I can visually see the difference between the low lying areas and the areas where I plan to build, just as in your pic above the grid lines show on the slightly higher areas and not in the lower. I would rather it not be beach colored though, probably more of a darker greenish brownish mix for the wet areas. If you look at the areas to the east of Jacksonville on google maps between the city and the beach you can see the major wetland areas are really dark. In some cases it is even fully brown and closer to black. I think that the key though is going to be the flora used. I did find one tropical flora mod that might be ok but have not gotten to see it in action yet as I just reformatted my PC and need to reinstall everything.

What I am really hoping for is that someone with the skills to make this happen sees this thread and maybe considers creating something appropriate. You never know.

You might want to search out fellow Simtropians _marsh_ and Lowkee33. They have done stunning work with beaches/ and or/ terrain. (Lowkee has a great thread over at SC4Devotion, but that forum is down due to an site upgrade.) Checking out some of their threads might help you along....

Don't forget to backup!!

[CaptCity 4,915]

Well see that is my problem, I can't seem to find very many of the terrain texture mods. I sifted through 29 pages of stuff when searching for "terrain" and 95% of it was maps.

If you use the advanced search and check the Search Titles Only option, it will greatly reduce the entries found to more relevant items.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

To really get what you want, why not generate a gray-scale map by using whatever tools come to hand? Copy your map from Google Earth, then switch it to gray scale. You may have to invert it to get things right. In the game, white is the highest height, and black the deepest depth. As I recall, sea level is around 80 on the scale from 0 to 255.

After you have your map, or during intermediate stages, you can read it into landscape designer to see how you are doing. When you are happy, ld will help you generate a suitable config.bmp.

I am afraid that if you want this done, it will be a matter of DIY.

  Edited July 4, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[LuapYllier 8]

A Nonny Moose, I have the terrain topographicly correct. The map I got from the STEX is just fine elevation wise...It is the textures that I would like to see altered.

[LuapYllier 8]

OK to give you a good example of what I am looking for I need to be able to create or replicate in some way the type of terrain found in Kestner Creek.

If you go to google maps, and then zoom in to the Jacksonville FL area...then search for Kestner Creek, Atlantic Beach, FL. I am almost positive I will not be able to make it look exactly like that but I need some ideas on how to come close.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I am sorry, but there is no avoiding the issue. You need to take your Google map, load it into a graphics manipulation program like GIMP, switch it to 256 level gray-scale, and probably invert it.

This would give you are starting point. the map must be a rectangle with sides 2ⁿ+1 and the sides of your config.bmp must match it at 2ⁿ/64.

Save the map as a .jpg. I suggest that 2ⁿ be less than or equal to 2048 if you want your map to render in reasonable time.

Now, to see what you have so far, read that map into Landscape Designer which will show you a false color map of your region.

Now, print that if it is at all near what you want, then tweak the gray scale image to conform to your desires. This is the one and only tool that will produce what you want exactly, bearing in mind the limits of the 256 gray scale. I don't think there is any easy way to do this other than by careful manipulation of the prototype map. You can check it out, of course, by rendering it. I think you can get all the help you might need over in the mapping forum.

[Cob92 360]

I think what he's looking for is a wetland texture mod for the terrain, not a map.

And to your original post: I start my regions from the center and build outward. Over time, the original town site upgrades in wealth and density to become the downtown area while the suburbs continue to push outward from the first city tile in a radial pattern.

  Edited July 6, 2011 by Cobhris96  

[LuapYllier 8]

I think what he's looking for is a wetland texture mod for the terrain, not a map.

And to your original post: I start my regions from the center and build outward. Over time, the original town site upgrades in wealth and density to become the downtown area while the suburbs continue to push outward from the first city tile in a radial pattern.

Yes exactly, I have a map. I am not going through all that to create a new one with the same issue. I need appropriate textures and flora for the area.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Not sure you'll find them, but look at Pegasus site, especially at the CDK packages. There is also a pools/ponds package there.