Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Athanasius

The "Glasgow Effect"

20 posts in this topic Last Reply

Recommended Posts

http://www.gcph.co.uk/work_programmes/understanding_glasgows_health/exploring_the_glasgow_effect_glasgow_liverpool_and_man

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12267237

Glasgow has the lowest male life expectancy in Great Britain with places like the Calton having male life expectancy at 54

but even after compensating for bad diet, poverty and industrial decline Glasgow has a significantly higher mortality rate than comparable cities in the UK such as Manchester and Liverpool. Former communist states which had a lower life expectancy than Glasgow having rising life expectancies.

any theories as to why Glasgow has this anaccounted for 15% difference in mortality rate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, I am converting to hot links.  You really should do this, you know.

www.gcph.co.uk/work_programmes/understanding_glasgows_health/exploring_the_glasgow_effect_glasgow_liverpool_and_man

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12267237

I'll look at them, then add a comment if necessary.


OK, now the first is a summary that leads to a lot more documentation.  Frankly, I don't care enough about it to delve that deeply into scientific papers.  The second is a sound byte with a faint Scottish accent, so be prepared.

Now, getting coronary disease when you live in Glasgow seems to be a risk.  I am sure the research papers cover this.  My only comment is that I wouldn't like to live in Glasgow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • even when you compare them to similar cities there is a significantly higher mortality than other post-industrial cities

    the point that makes this thread worthy is that merely living in Glasgow seems to give you coronary heart disease even if you take care of yourself.

    genes in the last 20 years haven't changed much. Glasgow had the "regular" rates of disease as other big, poor cities

    there isn't any difference in pollution since it's all road pollution in Glasgow.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    I'll shoot at the genes here.

    Glasgow has been a heavy duty industry city "back then" and I can think of all the poor diet and chemicals and poor environmental standards at that time and whatever devilish ehausts there been and so on, that this could have had a lasting effect on those genes and now they're going bonkers on the descendants

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

    An interesting study.

    Wonder if the effects are genetic. Scots may not be from the same genitic background as the british.

    or mabey its just polution.quote>

    The English are a mixed bag of Saxons, Celts, and Normans, while the Scots have mostly Pictish ancestry.  Remember Hadrian's wall?

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Originally posted by: Barbarossa

    You guys should just read some Ian Rankin, or Irvine Welsh. Scotland in a nutshell. Still, I'd live there in a heartbeat, at least for a little while.

    Barbarossaquote>

    Edinburgh maybe, but if I lived in Scotland, I want a nice little town in the highlands awa' fro' those lowland sassenachs.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

    Wonder if the effects are genetic. Scots may not be from the same genitic background as the british.quote>

    Genetic effects are inversely correlated with population size and dynamics (migration), i.e. a city is basically the last place where you'd look for them.

    I'll shoot at the genes here.

    Glasgow has been a heavy duty industry city "back then" and I can think of all the poor diet and chemicals and poor environmental standards at that time and whatever devilish ehausts there been and so on, that this could have had a lasting effect on those genes and now they're going bonkers on the descendantsquote>

    Veeery unlikely. Even though there are quite a lot of new mutations every generation, the immense majority has no effect at all. Even if environmental pollutants caused a rise in mutations, it would take quite a lot of time for them to be fixed in the population, and it'd be virtually impossible for them to do so in a city. You'd need a huge decrease in population and migration and a bit of (bad) luck for them to become so widespread.

    There is actually a non-genetic way to cause a widespread and biologically inheritable "defect", but there are no other cases known of this in polluted and industrial cities.

    The causes are probably a complex tangle of unrelated problems, as they usually happen to be in real world problems...

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Originally posted by: fukuda

    Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

    Wonder if the effects are genetic. Scots may not be from the same genitic background as the british.quote>

    Genetic effects are inversely correlated with population size and dynamics (migration), i.e. a city is basically the last place where you'd look for them.

    I'll shoot at the genes here.

    Glasgow has been a heavy duty industry city "back then" and I can think of all the poor diet and chemicals and poor environmental standards at that time and whatever devilish ehausts there been and so on, that this could have had a lasting effect on those genes and now they're going bonkers on the descendantsquote>

    Veeery unlikely. Even though there are quite a lot of new mutations every generation, the immense majority has no effect at all. Even if environmental pollutants caused a rise in mutations, it would take quite a lot of time for them to be fixed in the population, and it'd be virtually impossible for them to do so in a city. You'd need a huge decrease in population and migration and a bit of (bad) luck for them to become so widespread.

    There is actually a non-genetic way to cause a widespread and biologically inheritable "defect", but there are no other cases known of this in polluted and industrial cities.

    The causes are probably a complex tangle of unrelated problems, as they usually happen to be in real world problems...

    quote>

    Even though environmental pollutants may not cause a rise in mutations, It may explain the rise in cardiovascular diease and cancers especialy if those polutants  have not been cleaned up as well as they were in some other post

    industrial citys so the people are still  getting or staying sick.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • considering that the industries were steel and shipbuilding. mostly sulphates and soot. the industry is of course long gone and most of the pollution went into the river Clyde

    however Glasgow used to have a rickets problem due to the soot in the air blocking the UV rays from reaching people's skin. rickets is on the rise but only among those who have more skin pigmentation.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Vitamin D with Calcium Citrate is availabe and inexpensive.  There is no excuse for ricketts.

    Did you know, speaking of deficiency diseases, that when Charles Stuart was in Scotland in the 1740's he had scurvy?  He would eat only meat.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Originally posted by: GMT

    I'll shoot at the genes here.

    Glasgow has been a heavy duty industry city "back then" and I can think of all the poor diet and chemicals and poor environmental standards at that time and whatever devilish ehausts there been and so on, that this could have had a lasting effect on those genes and now they're going bonkers on the descendantsquote>

    If it was Genes it would also affect Glaswegians living elsewhere, as they come from the same gene-pool.

    More likely is this:-

    1) Deep-fried "Mars" bars.

    2) High rates of alcohol use.

    3) Water coming through lead(pb) pipes.

    Not to mention the Glasgow Kiss.

    Actually Glasgow is much improved from the bad old days.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Originally posted by: Merlin of Flyote

    If it was Genes it would also affect Glaswegians living elsewhere, as they come from the same gene-pool.quote>

    Hmmm.. there could be an interaction between genes and a special environment not happening anywhere else, but again it's extremely unlikely to happen in a big city.

    Originally posted by: Merlin of Flyote

    1) Deep-fried "Mars" bars. + alcoholismquote>

    14.gif My poor liver is hurting just at the thought of it...

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    agree with Merlin of Flyote

    also is one the most deprived area in britian with all the heavy industry disappearing quickly (thx Mrs Thacher) also drugs, NEDs and Buckie don't help

    Scots are mixture of celtic (Geal, Pict and Briton) and norse

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Low life expectancy is usually caused by poor health care (infant mortality rate, death from sickness, death from need of surgery), pollution, and violent crimes.

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Low life expectancy is usually caused by poor health care (infant mortality rate, death from sickness, death from need of surgery), pollution, and violent crimes.

    Health care is OK (NHS), pollution is not that bad these days (thanks Mrs. Thatcher), and it's not that violent (except for "the Glasgow Kiss").

    In the past poverty and pollution were a problem. Currently poor diet and alcholism are issues.

    It also varies in different parts of Glasgow the East being worst. 20 miles accross the city, life expectancy can change by 30 years.


      Edited by Merlin of Flyote  

    Share this post


    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an Account  

    Sign up to join our friendly community. It's easy!  

    Register a New Account

    Sign In  

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now

    Sign in to follow this  

    • Recently Browsing   0 members

      No registered users viewing this page.

    ×

    Help Keep Simtropolis Online, Open & Free!

    stexcollection-header.png

    Would you be able to help us catch up after a bit of a shortfall?

    We had a small shortfall last month. Your donation today would help us catch up for this month.

    Make a Donation, Get a Gift!

    We need to continue to raise enough money each month to pay for expenses which includes hardware, bandwidth, software licenses, support licenses and other necessary 3rd party costs.

    By way of a "Thank You" gift, we'd like to send you our STEX Collector's DVD. It's some of the best buildings, lots, maps and mods collected for you over the years. Check out the STEX Collections for more info.

    Each donation helps keep Simtropolis online, open and free!

    Thank you for reading and enjoy the site!

    More About STEX Collections