Synekism - A New City Simulation Game

[Cob92 360]

We never used the arrows for movement. Do you mean ASDW? These should still work in the new version, the same way as previously.

Oh, sorry, my mistake. WASD still works. Loving the game.

[knighthawk75 56]

initial thoughts after 30minutes with the new build.

I like the new movement system as it's more intuitive\ flows better. However the new movement system has effectively broken the dezone tool, causing me to spend way to much time single clicking every darn lot to dezone now, instead of being able to select the tool and click and drag like before. Please find a way to fix that, perhaps a key to hold down to counter act the camera. Also as much as I like the lot tool improvements for fast layouts I also find it kind of pointless; as I could zone area already gridded out nearly as fast and more selectively using the F key. I'd rather have the ability with the road tool for it to layout the road grids unzoned like that of the updated lot tool. I tried just using the lot tool and then attempting to unzone what it created but the new camera system has made that next to impossible due to the single click issue\conflict. Oh fyi city load times appear to be noticeably longer then they used to be (45m city) in the last build, just pointing it out, overall it's still minimal.

/2cents.

[Yelmond 19]

initial thoughts after 30minutes with the new build.

I like the new movement system as it's more intuitive\ flows better. However the new movement system has effectively broken the dezone tool, causing me to spend way to much time single clicking every darn lot to dezone now, instead of being able to select the tool and click and drag like before. Please find a way to fix that, perhaps a key to hold down to counter act the camera. Also as much as I like the lot tool improvements for fast layouts I also find it kind of pointless; as I could zone area already gridded out nearly as fast and more selectively using the F key. I'd rather have the ability with the road tool for it to layout the road grids unzoned like that of the updated lot tool. I tried just using the lot tool and then attempting to unzone what it created but the new camera system has made that next to impossible due to the single click issue\conflict. Oh fyi city load times appear to be noticeably longer then they used to be (45m city) in the last build, just pointing it out, overall it's still minimal.

/2cents.

This is why the next release will probably have no new features, just stability and BUG fixes. You are completely right. The Dezone Tool (and the Dozer, since it's the same kind of tool) has obviously not been tested properly with the new camera system and it's broken. I'm not sure yet if it I'll do a patch but it's likely.

That said, we might allow you to "zone without zones" in the next release as it's an very very simple feature to implement although we're running out of hotkeys .

As for the loading times, we only added some file access checks but didn't modify the load/save code at all this release so I'm not sure why you would experience slower loads. The thing about save/load is that we probably won't spend much time optimizing it, as I think gameplay performance is more important than load times for these types of games. Not saying we won't at all, it's just a lower priority.

[knighthawk75 56]

initial thoughts after 30minutes with the new build.

I like the new movement system as it's more intuitive\ flows better. However the new movement system has effectively broken the dezone tool, causing me to spend way to much time single clicking every darn lot to dezone now, instead of being able to select the tool and click and drag like before. Please find a way to fix that, perhaps a key to hold down to counter act the camera. Also as much as I like the lot tool improvements for fast layouts I also find it kind of pointless; as I could zone area already gridded out nearly as fast and more selectively using the F key. I'd rather have the ability with the road tool for it to layout the road grids unzoned like that of the updated lot tool. I tried just using the lot tool and then attempting to unzone what it created but the new camera system has made that next to impossible due to the single click issue\conflict. Oh fyi city load times appear to be noticeably longer then they used to be (45m city) in the last build, just pointing it out, overall it's still minimal.

/2cents.

This is why the next release will probably have no new features, just stability and BUG fixes. You are completely right. The Dezone Tool (and the Dozer, since it's the same kind of tool) has obviously not been tested properly with the new camera system and it's broken. I'm not sure yet if it I'll do a patch but it's likely.

That said, we might allow you to "zone without zones" in the next release as it's an very very simple feature to implement although we're running out of hotkeys .

As for the loading times, we only added some file access checks but didn't modify the load/save code at all this release so I'm not sure why you would experience slower loads. The thing about save/load is that we probably won't spend much time optimizing it, as I think gameplay performance is more important than load times for these types of games. Not saying we won't at all, it's just a lower priority.

Sounds good, and I'd fully agree gameplay performance is far more important than load times.

[Yelmond 19]

initial thoughts after 30minutes with the new build.

I like the new movement system as it's more intuitive\ flows better. However the new movement system has effectively broken the dezone tool, causing me to spend way to much time single clicking every darn lot to dezone now, instead of being able to select the tool and click and drag like before. Please find a way to fix that, perhaps a key to hold down to counter act the camera. Also as much as I like the lot tool improvements for fast layouts I also find it kind of pointless; as I could zone area already gridded out nearly as fast and more selectively using the F key. I'd rather have the ability with the road tool for it to layout the road grids unzoned like that of the updated lot tool. I tried just using the lot tool and then attempting to unzone what it created but the new camera system has made that next to impossible due to the single click issue\conflict. Oh fyi city load times appear to be noticeably longer then they used to be (45m city) in the last build, just pointing it out, overall it's still minimal.

/2cents.

This is why the next release will probably have no new features, just stability and BUG fixes. You are completely right. The Dezone Tool (and the Dozer, since it's the same kind of tool) has obviously not been tested properly with the new camera system and it's broken. I'm not sure yet if it I'll do a patch but it's likely.

That said, we might allow you to "zone without zones" in the next release as it's an very very simple feature to implement although we're running out of hotkeys .

As for the loading times, we only added some file access checks but didn't modify the load/save code at all this release so I'm not sure why you would experience slower loads. The thing about save/load is that we probably won't spend much time optimizing it, as I think gameplay performance is more important than load times for these types of games. Not saying we won't at all, it's just a lower priority.

Patch released. Sorry about that.

[knighthawk75 56]

Patch released. Sorry about that.

Wow that was quick. thx!

BTW reported new bug via support@ and googlegroups

That said anyone closing in on 2.1billion in accumulated balance save a copy of your city before you hit that mark else you'll rollover to a negative balance.

  Edited March 9, 2011 by knighthawk75  

[GMT 389]

jeez... 02246a already. My version is like as old as this planet. 0115 according to the readme. what a shame. I really gotta dig into the latest one these days.

EDIT: one of these days was just now, and what I noticed right away about the new view tool that conflicts with the dezone tool... why not moving the view panning from left mouse to middle mouse? Ok this might be troublesome for a bunch of laptops but there's still the possibility to use WASD instead, albeit it's slower. (middle mouse was what I clicked each time wanting to pan the view... that's why I came to post this at all...

EDIT2: and I stumbled over this wierd fractual something 2 or 3 times just now on rather long and ever so slightly diverging zoning. can't even bulldoze/dezone the thinnest ones of it.Didn't do it on purpose either, it just happend to flip like this all of a sudden.

Last edit for the night: there's even some baaad road messup salad related to that. post a pic later today as it is 3am and time to get bitten by bed bugs

  Edited March 10, 2011 by GMT  

[Aktof 2]

Hey,

Firstly, just to clarify, do you mean that the "Click and Drag" functionality doesn't work when in dezone mode? As for your suggestion, we did think of moving it to the middle button, but as you said this will conflict with laptops, furthermore it also conflicts with several USB mice such as newer Logitech mice. If this were not the case we would have chosen that button. Later on we will have the option to change the camera controls, but for now the it will remain the same. In any case, thank you for giving us feedback on this function.

Aktof

[GMT 389]

Hey,

Firstly, just to clarify, do you mean that the "Click and Drag" functionality doesn't work when in dezone mode? As for your suggestion, we did think of moving it to the middle button, but as you said this will conflict with laptops, furthermore it also conflicts with several USB mice such as newer Logitech mice. If this were not the case we would have chosen that button. Later on we will have the option to change the camera controls, but for now the it will remain the same. In any case, thank you for giving us feedback on this function.

Aktof

I have to correct myself here, dezone did work both with drag and single-clicking, but with the funny fractual shape of the buildings (that seem to be clearly below what was intended and furthermore, wrongfully as you can see they leap over other, existing buildings (check the right half of the picture)) it was a real pain in the behind to get rid of them as draggin didn't help on the "thinnest" buildings, given a width of a 1 2 3 pixels...

anyways, the road problem still remains and I can't bulldoze the roads either, they are not recognized by the bulldozer tool, so I can't do anything about them. Here's to a picture, btw.

Maybe it helps if I attach the savefile or send it to support so you can dig into it deeper and have a better look than a picture?

[Yelmond 19]

Hey,

Firstly, just to clarify, do you mean that the "Click and Drag" functionality doesn't work when in dezone mode? As for your suggestion, we did think of moving it to the middle button, but as you said this will conflict with laptops, furthermore it also conflicts with several USB mice such as newer Logitech mice. If this were not the case we would have chosen that button. Later on we will have the option to change the camera controls, but for now the it will remain the same. In any case, thank you for giving us feedback on this function.

Aktof

I have to correct myself here, dezone did work both with drag and single-clicking, but with the funny fractual shape of the buildings (that seem to be clearly below what was intended and furthermore, wrongfully as you can see they leap over other, existing buildings (check the right half of the picture)) it was a real pain in the behind to get rid of them as draggin didn't help on the "thinnest" buildings, given a width of a 1 2 3 pixels...

anyways, the road problem still remains and I can't bulldoze the roads either, they are not recognized by the bulldozer tool, so I can't do anything about them. Here's to a picture, btw.

Maybe it helps if I attach the savefile or send it to support so you can dig into it deeper and have a better look than a picture?

Sweet. That's pretty messed up. If you do send the save file that would really help, yes. (for ease, its: support@synekism.com).

A couple of things though. One is, 1 pixel lots? How did you manage that? And two, do you know, did this start happening after building on the very edge of the map?

[GMT 389]

yap I gathered some money and went bogus with zoning across the entire map, as big as the zoning tool allowed me to. and then all of a sudden this wierd shape turned up. like the buildings are centered around an invisibly small focus point.

I'll send the save file over, but unfortunately, none of the buildings are left as far as I know. But the roads are.

How the buildings turned out to look like this tho... I don't know really. They just appeared all of a sudden. they where supposed to be normal lots like the zoning tool lays down but turned out like this as I bulldozed a road adjecent to them.

EDIT: no no no I haven't forgotten about the email, just sending it. sort of ran into sending problems, now trying it with a zip file...

  Edited March 16, 2011 by GMT  

[Yelmond 19]

Update to follow.

Sorry, posted update as the wrong account and can't seem to delete my post.

  Edited April 1, 2011 by Yelmond  

[Synekism 19]

Today's release brings some mighty features to the table, namely: variable height and sculptable terrain, water with realistic particle physics, realistic 3D buildings, building interiors, a building and lot modding tool, 6-Tier fully functional public transit system, trains and tracks, zonable and in-game-moddable airports, infinite (planet-sized) buildable areas, new zoom from street level up to planetary view, realistic weather effects, realistic tectonic plate simulation (earthquakes), a fully customizable road system (1 lane streets to 12 lane super highways), smooth-curved transporation systems, an all new simulation engine, multiple lot density classes, multiple wealth classes, a full range of zonable public services, zonable powerplants, zonable water treatment and distribution facilities, a powerful new user interface complete with graphs and datamaps, volumetric clouds, dynamic (day and night) lighting, and last but certainly not least, full multiplayer support. And yes, the game is still 8MB.

Some may say: "HA! April Fool's!", but we, on the other hand, say: "It's only a matter of time."

The truth is that this was a rather slow month for us and most of the time we did spend was on internal "under-the-hood" stuff which unfortunately will only benefit the player in the long run. Some things worth mentioning that did get in are the addition of terrain custom textures in DirectX 9 and a debug tool to remove invalid roads (that can't be deleted) and other bad things (until these issues are actually fixed).

We do, however, plan another major release either in May or June where some of the above mess might become a reality. More on that next week.

[Cleaner475 150]

I didn't know about this, I'll definetly check it out and see what it's like, based on the pics guys it looks pretty unique,

Regards,

Richard

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Today's release brings some mighty features to the table, namely: variable height and sculptable terrain, water with realistic particle physics, realistic 3D buildings, building interiors, a building and lot modding tool, 6-Tier fully functional public transit system, trains and tracks, zonable and in-game-moddable airports, infinite (planet-sized) buildable areas, new zoom from street level up to planetary view, realistic weather effects, realistic tectonic plate simulation (earthquakes), a fully customizable road system (1 lane streets to 12 lane super highways), smooth-curved transporation systems, an all new simulation engine, multiple lot density classes, multiple wealth classes, a full range of zonable public services, zonable powerplants, zonable water treatment and distribution facilities, a powerful new user interface complete with graphs and datamaps, volumetric clouds, dynamic (day and night) lighting, and last but certainly not least, full multiplayer support. And yes, the game is still 8MB.

Some may say: "HA! April Fool's!", but we, on the other hand, say: "It's only a matter of time."

The truth is that this was a rather slow month for us and most of the time we did spend was on internal "under-the-hood" stuff which unfortunately will only benefit the player in the long run. Some things worth mentioning that did get in are the addition of terrain custom textures in DirectX 9 and a debug tool to remove invalid roads (that can't be deleted) and other bad things (until these issues are actually fixed).

We do, however, plan another major release either in May or June where some of the above mess might become a reality. More on that next week.

At first I was like, "O RLY?" and then I saw it was just hyperbole for the future. You mentioned features that are rarely wanted (and hard to program) anyway that not even the Metropolis Project wants to have. You were really funny

[knighthawk75 56]

Hahaha that had me going for about the first sentence. cute. Thanks for the monthly drop I'll be sure and play around some more with the new build this weekend.

[Cleaner475 150]

I've been playing around with the game for a bit and it's actually quite enjoyable, I know its basic at this stage but it does get a little bit addictive which can only be a good thing. I'm very interested to see how this is developed in the future. Good work guys.

Regards,

Richard

[Cob92 360]

I know its basic at this stage but it does get a little bit addictive which can only be a good thing.

If it's this addictive at this stage, we know the Synekism guys are on the right track. The proof of a good game is whether or not it's still fun after you take away all the pretty graphics (*cough* CXL *cough*).

[Yelmond 19]

Thanks guys, it's good to know we're not flying off the road.

We're going to give multiplayer a try either next month or in two. So like everyone building at the same time on the same city lot - shared income. Random but related question: Do you think real-time city building multiplayer support is rare due to technical restrictions or lack of gameplay justification? In other words, is this something needed in city building games? And to further clarify, I don't mean massively-online-multiplayer type multiplayer, but rather, LAN-based, a-bunch-of-friends type multiplayer.

[Mootilda 76]

I can't imagine wanting to play that way. In SimCity 4, I might want to play with real neighbors, but playing in the same city with someone else isn't appealing at all.

[Cob92 360]

Maybe real time where each player controls a separate city, but everyone playing in one city doesn't sound too appealing to me. Sounds like it would be more of a political simulation than anything.

[knighthawk75 56]

Thanks guys, it's good to know we're not flying off the road.

We're going to give multiplayer a try either next month or in two. So like everyone building at the same time on the same city lot - shared income. Random but related question: Do you think real-time city building multiplayer support is rare due to technical restrictions or lack of gameplay justification? In other words, is this something needed in city building games? And to further clarify, I don't mean massively-online-multiplayer type multiplayer, but rather, LAN-based, a-bunch-of-friends type multiplayer.

Both a lack of demand and technical\implementation choices. Who am I going to play on a lan with @ home? Approach with caution.

[knighthawk75 56]

Maybe real time where each player controls a separate city, but everyone playing in one city doesn't sound too appealing to me. Sounds like it would be more of a political simulation than anything.

Have to agree, I don't ever really want to share control of my city with anyone, now having to fight or negotiate with neighbors over connection or resource or traffic dumping issue could\might be interesting.

I did always wish I could upload and sync my cities with some fantasy world online that would allow others to view\walk\drive through it and perhaps make 'connections' that way sort of like cxl plant thing (while also being able to play it offline), but that implementation never seemed quite right and seemed the costs to run something like that couldn't generate enough demand to cover it - at least the way they approached it.

[Yelmond 19]

Interesting. Good thing I asked. The reason I insisted on real-time is because we'd like to eliminate the neighborhood-way of doing things. Instead, you have a planet and you build anywhere you'd like. So the other players would probably be very very far away from you city but in case they are not we want it to be a real-time. It also opens up possibilities such as having a giant city where each section is managed by a different player. The server can keep running and people contribute whenever they have time or want to. As well, a friend of mine and I often had competitions going (ex. first to 300,000 pop) which was quite fun...but maybe that's just us.

So, if this is not something people want too badly we will of course not focus on it as much. We'll eventually try all aspects of city simulation in some minor way even if they don't necessarily pan out.

Thanks for your feedback.

[knighthawk75 56]

Instead, you have a planet and you build anywhere you'd like. So the other players would probably be very very far away from you city but in case they are not we want it to be a real-time. It also opens up possibilities such as having a giant city where each section is managed by a different player. The server can keep running and people contribute whenever they have time or want to.

That part interests me but really only if it can some how be implemented in such a way that each portion can both be persisted on the 'server' end ( I badly want to checking out and watch other peoples cities run), as well as locally (though some might not be concerned with the local part - me I'm still on a relatively crap connection due to lack of options and don't want the requirement of having to be connected to just play [the same city I spend a life time creating online]).

I may repeat my self a bit here but what the hell right -

So what I'm thinking is something like I run a planet server myself (or host it or .. pay hoster for such, or hell maybe you guys figure out a supportable\workable model to do it yourselves without losing your shirts). I then design, configure or otherwise sort of generate the planet terrain, or maybe it's random, but I'd say if possible leave that up for modding but maybe random generate by default. Within said planet, folks can then [i can suggest possible specifics if needed] register or otherwise signup\in\auth to play\ own a 'city' on my server\planet. When I get access to said city the initial terrain\city is downloaded\synced to my local system copy, I can then play my city either online or offline and changes are replicated to the planet on demand, as I logoff, or perhaps trickel synced every so often as I play or some combination there of, perhaps it even stores local some level of planet parameters about things near by that have effects on my city [effects of close by citiies, or connections to some sort of planet infrastructure, etc or not]. What I think is sort of cool about that is so long as you keep the primary processing local you may be able to get a pretty decent chunk of players per-planet or server, as your really just using no more then fps like bandwidth and some storage space allowing for some good sized, possibility self supporting communities of players to develop, who could then watch and interact (in limited ways) with other cities on the planet. I could go on a bit, but seems like an awful large challenge to pull off in a pretty reliable way (lots of places for things to go wrong and eat up dev\test time) with a small team at this stage, and I'm not sure everyone would agree on the value vs effort upfront. If there is a away to focus mostly on the city sim characteristics while laying some of the ground work for this sort of thing, or leaving open your options to implement some of that without having to rework a ton of code, radically changing the dynamics later, or internal formats later then I might suggest that as a more fruitful path in the mid to longer term. I'm not even sure I'm describing the vision correctly but it does mimic in some ways citiesxl's planet concept from what I understood, only with implementation changes, perhaps I'm not even making any sense but just some more random thoughts on the matter and appreciate your requests for feedback and thoughts.

  Edited April 9, 2011 by knighthawk75  

[Yelmond 19]

Instead, you have a planet and you build anywhere you'd like. So the other players would probably be very very far away from you city but in case they are not we want it to be a real-time. It also opens up possibilities such as having a giant city where each section is managed by a different player. The server can keep running and people contribute whenever they have time or want to.

That part interests me but really only if it can some how be implemented in such a way that each portion can both be persisted on the 'server' end ( I badly want to checking out and watch other peoples cities run), as well as locally (though some might not be concerned with the local part - me I'm still on a relatively crap connection due to lack of options and don't want the requirement of having to be connected to just play [the same city I spend a life time creating online]).

I may repeat my self a bit here but what the hell right...

I try my best to avoid referencing and comparing with other games but its really hard in this case. We're actually aiming for a sandbox-type play very similar to the Minecraft multiplayer mode. This is because Minecraft is simply awesome and also because we're not the only ones that thinks so. Of course, for giant cities to work, some changes need to be made to the model and your suggestions are spot on. We want to assure that a full connection to the server would not be required to play your own cities but also make sure the planets are reasonably synced up. This very simple multiplayer update coming up is simply a prototype-kind of test and also, as you said, to keep our options open. We'll build the game (as best we can) in a way as to allow the transition to full-fledged planet multiplayer gameplay without rewriting the game from scratch.

But don't worry, we won't spend all our time on multiplayer; single player is still our priority.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Well, I believe that there should be a way to differentiate co-op cities from solo/selfish cities so that by default any city I build is mine, ALL MINE(!!!) but maybe we could work on a shared city, like a community gathering, with each person working on a different neighborhood, block, building, and/or type of construction/management (one person does roads, one utilities, 1-4 do civic services, one does zoning in a certain neighborhood, a council governs, one (or a few) is an architect of the landmarks) but that would be very difficult. A shared city might have a link to it on the global server for visitation but it would have to be hosted on the group's private server, which could open up visitors to crime cities (they could be propositioned, coerced, or made uncomfortable). It would also be cool to separate the rendering engine from the rest of the game so that players could choose to render cities with different engines for different appearances (like if Crysis engine was acquired by a group).

[Synekism 19]

May 2011 brings our second major release, v0.3. We wanted to bring two major new features just like last time, however, due to various reasons we could only bring you one, lot density control. The second feature, multiplayer support, will arrive in June.

[Simtopia23 0]

I love this new release, new custom terrain(can we create a terrain with PS?), new lot density, new graphics,... It's really nice and i really anxious to see your work on multiplayer.

but i've only a question: how can i get screenshots of my cities?

[Yelmond 19]

(can we create a terrain with PS?)

You mean Photoshop? We support .png, .jpg, .bmp, and .gif. As long as the image is in one of those formats, located in the Mods folder in the game's program files folder, and is named exactly "UserTerrainTexture", it should work.

but i've only a question: how can i get screenshots of my cities?

I'm afraid you can only do it using the Print Screen button on your keyboard and then pasting into Paint. Although I think some editions of Windows 7 have a program called Snipping Tool which you can use to take a screen of just the game window. We will add an in-game screenshot feature eventually.