Hard_Justice BAT Thread

[Hard_Justice 0]

I thought I would try my hand at the BAT.  Please let me know what you think.

Starting with a Split Level House.

[Evillions 552]

If you're going to make a split level house. Try looking at pictures at real world split level houses and COPY EVERY SINGLE detail there is in that picture. Maybe some floor-plans might be of some help to you. Just what professional models would do.

[Hard_Justice 0]

Originally posted by: Evillions

If you're going to make a split level house. Try looking at pictures at real world split level houses and COPY EVERY SINGLE detail there is in that picture. Maybe some floor-plans might be of some help to you. Just what professional models would do.quote>

I am not sure what you are looking for, you need to be more specific.  I have looked at several different styles of split level homes (below are just a few samples), some are called Bi-level home others are Tri-level homes.

What are you getting at with the floor plans?  Are you wanting inner walls, doors, stairs or something else?  All that stuff will not be seen once the model is in the game will it?

Please Note:  I am not a professional modeler and I don't intend on trying to be one.  Don't have the education required and this is just a game anyway.

This one resembles the style I am going for the most, except I want a two car garage and less windows on the upper floor.

Please Note:  I am trying to do what any artist or designer would do and that is take the picture in my head and design it, not copy someone else.

Please respond.

[Francis90b 748]

Well, in my opinion you have a nice model there, you just need to further work on it.The only thing i can notice is that maybe your window openings are somewhat too large.

There is no knowledge needed to make good BATs.

You (like every BATer) might just need some observation skills, but they can be developed over the time.

Like Evillions said, if you're trying to make something realistic pictures and floorplans of existing buildings might really help you.

This doesn't mean you have to follow them in every detail, unless you're trying to make an exact recreation of an existing building.

Remember that you're BATing for your fun, not for someone else's, so be sure to BAT at the level you're confortable with.Also, people are there to help you and give you suggestions and advices, but you should take them as they are, suggestions.No need to be defensive .

Keep on with your work and be sure you won't need to ask for readers replies .

[madhatter106 3,931]

Originally posted by: Hard_Justice

Please Note:  I am not a professional modeler and I don't intend on trying to be one.  Don't have the education required and this is just a game anyway.quote>

I'm not a professional, either; neither are lots (I daresay, nearly all) of the others here.  True it's just a game, but why not use the input from others to make your stuff better?

Originally posted by: Hard_Justice

Please Note:  I am trying to do what any artist or designer would do and that is take the picture in my head and design it, not copy someone else.

quote>

Therein lies the problem - because I see all these interesting details and proportions and arrangements and pieces of your research pictures, but when I see your model, they're all missing.  Take the research, digest it, and use it - we're not saying "copy someone else," per se, but use the best of what's in front of you to inform and better the design.  Seldom do I recreate a building outright that already exists, but sometimes I'll "frankenstein" a building together - the doorway from this picture looks good, the window arrangement from that picture is what works, maybe if I add some roofjunk here or there like a third picture, etc.

Like Francis90b stated, it's observation in a large part - looking at the size of the windows as compared to the size of the doors, seeing where the windows fall in the wall in relation to the ground, seeing that this level is slightly shorter than that level, seeing that a chimney or pipe detail is 1/3 of the way along a wall and not 1/2 as originally thought, eeing if a roof angle is too steep or too shallow, etc.

Too often I see a first-time BATter thread where they say "I made it up" or they've conjured something out of thin air, and the result is bland or lacking any real-life "oomph."  Because we're not all architects and engineers, building something from scratch out of our heads with no frame of reference is not going to give us the best result.  Imagine if you wanted to start painting a portrait of Julia Roberts or Tom Cruise - you wouldn't sit down at the canvas and easel and just "take the picture in your head" and do it - you would pull up some reference photos and images to help you along.

When Evillions says "floor plan," I suspect he's meaning "ground plan," ie. what you would see in the BAT top view - mainly how the house is laid out, where the garage sticks out and how much, how wide it is versus how long it is, etc.  (As an aside, whenever I hear "floor plan," I always think of decorator diagrams of how the furniture is arranged.)  Judging from the research pictures, there are some pretty interesting ground plans there - the third picture posted in particular is nice and interesting.

I'd also echo Francis90b's comment on taking the suggestions and comments and critiques of others - you posted for input, and when people give it (no matter what it may be), be gracious and civil and open to the ideas offered to you.  Don't go the Deviant Art route of posting for heaps of praise and ass-pats only, and reacting defensively when legitimate concerns or questions are raised; post because you want to share your work and get helpful suggestions for improvements on it.  I'm not saying that you're being overly defensive or uncivil, but the two comments I quoted from you at the start of this thread might indicate to others that perhaps you're not 100% open to getting meaningful and gainful input on your work...

Wow, I typed a lot - I have a habit of doing that...heheheh.  Gather research, digest, implement, critique, improve, refine, wash, rinse, and repeat...   There's lots of great BATters here who can help you!

[Evillions 552]

Meh..  I'm just an average BATer in this site.  But I know a thing or two with BATing.  Personally, I never made houses like these before.  Only apartments or mid-rises.  What I said earlier about floorplans, I meant blueprints just like madhatter was pharsing it.  Anyways, I want to you let you know on a little something.

GOOD TEXTURES ARE MADE, NOT FOUND!

Hopefully people in the future will know this saying.

[Hard_Justice 0]

Originally posted by: madhatter106

Originally posted by: Hard_Justice

Please Note:  I am not a professional modeler and I don't intend on trying to be one.  Don't have the education required and this is just a game anyway.quote>

I'm not a professional, either; neither are lots (I daresay, nearly all) of the others here.  True it's just a game, but why not use the input from others to make your stuff better?

Originally posted by: Hard_Justice

Please Note:  I am trying to do what any artist or designer would do and that is take the picture in my head and design it, not copy someone else.

quote>

Therein lies the problem - because I see all these interesting details and proportions and arrangements and pieces of your research pictures, but when I see your model, they're all missing.  Take the research, digest it, and use it - we're not saying "copy someone else," per se, but use the best of what's in front of you to inform and better the design.  Seldom do I recreate a building outright that already exists, but sometimes I'll "frankenstein" a building together - the doorway from this picture looks good, the window arrangement from that picture is what works, maybe if I add some roofjunk here or there like a third picture, etc.

Like Francis90b stated, it's observation in a large part - looking at the size of the windows as compared to the size of the doors, seeing where the windows fall in the wall in relation to the ground, seeing that this level is slightly shorter than that level, seeing that a chimney or pipe detail is 1/3 of the way along a wall and not 1/2 as originally thought, eeing if a roof angle is too steep or too shallow, etc.

Too often I see a first-time BATter thread where they say "I made it up" or they've conjured something out of thin air, and the result is bland or lacking any real-life "oomph."  Because we're not all architects and engineers, building something from scratch out of our heads with no frame of reference is not going to give us the best result.  Imagine if you wanted to start painting a portrait of Julia Roberts or Tom Cruise - you wouldn't sit down at the canvas and easel and just "take the picture in your head" and do it - you would pull up some reference photos and images to help you along.

When Evillions says "floor plan," I suspect he's meaning "ground plan," ie. what you would see in the BAT top view - mainly how the house is laid out, where the garage sticks out and how much, how wide it is versus how long it is, etc.  (As an aside, whenever I hear "floor plan," I always think of decorator diagrams of how the furniture is arranged.)  Judging from the research pictures, there are some pretty interesting ground plans there - the third picture posted in particular is nice and interesting.

I'd also echo Francis90b's comment on taking the suggestions and comments and critiques of others - you posted for input, and when people give it (no matter what it may be), be gracious and civil and open to the ideas offered to you.  Don't go the Deviant Art route of posting for heaps of praise and ass-pats only, and reacting defensively when legitimate concerns or questions are raised; post because you want to share your work and get helpful suggestions for improvements on it.  I'm not saying that you're being overly defensive or uncivil, but the two comments I quoted from you at the start of this thread might indicate to others that perhaps you're not 100% open to getting meaningful and gainful input on your work...

Wow, I typed a lot - I have a habit of doing that...heheheh.  Gather research, digest, implement, critique, improve, refine, wash, rinse, and repeat...   There's lots of great BATters here who can help you!quote>

Thanks for the responses, will be updating soon.

Yes, I may have been a little deffensive but I am a little over whelmed with this whole thing.  My main point that I was getting at was that Evillions was trying to advise but I felt that he left a lot out where Francis90b and especially madhatter106 gave me more of what they were thinking and explained in a way where this thick headed old fool could understand.

Thank you.

Now, I have to say that I agree with Evillions that the windows look to large and I thought so as I was following the BAT Essentials that I found in the omnibus area.  Now I just need to figure out how to change the size of the windows without having to start all over.

Thanks again guys.

[Jasoncw 11,949]

It feels overwhelming at first, but before long, it won't at all.

[kellydale2003 2,276]

Great start!

Not much Split level houses these days in Simcity 4.

I used to live in a split level house....4 floors.

Keep the great work up!

[Hard_Justice 0]

Greetings everyone!

As I have stated earlier, I am a little overwhelmed with my project.  So, I am taking a step back from it in order to do something a little more simpler as well as for the purpose of being able to learn some new things that might help me finish my first project.

Please take a look at the following.  It is a simple ranch house.  This is just the start and I am posting it solely for the purpose of getting input as to the scale of the house in comparison to the picture and blueprints that I am following.

Please give me your opinion.  I promise not to be so defensive this time.

First:  Pictures of what I am trying to replicate.

Now For what I have modled.

Front Perspective View.  Concerned with the size of the door verses the size in the picture above.

Straight on Front View for a better look at the size of the door.

Back - Right Side View.   The blueprints show a door on the right side of the house but I didn't like that idea so I left that out and added a window to what would be the living area.

Left Side - Front View.

My next step is to add the window and door frames then the door and window glass as well as the roof.

Please comment.

Thanks

[SimFox 804]

Why instead of being concern with the sizes of the dorr, as you've put it you just don't make it to the size you have on the blueprint?

[madhatter106 3,931]

The door does indeed look wide - as SimFox mentioned, if you look at the width on the blueprint in relation to the windows, it's not as wide as you have it. Also something to consider is the "squashing effect" that gmax/BAT has. There's something about it in the Omnibus section, but essentially anything you create will be vertically squished by about a third. So some people make their stuff extra tall from scratch (like myself), and others build and then stretch the whole model up 33% extra once they've finished.

Said squashing effect would have even more of a widening of this door. Also something to consider is that the perspective views in gmax only tell us part of the story - if you really want comments, it's easier to judge from the preview renders of the BAT - after all, that is how it will be seen in-game; something could look great in the perspective window while modelling, but can look less effective once you've previewed the render.

[Hard_Justice 0]

Thanks for the comments everyone!  They are well appreciated.

**UPDATE**

I have added the window frames, window Glass, Door frames and Doors.  Also added the front stoop.  After some digging and some playing around I figured out how to resize both the front and back doors.  They look a lot better now, even with the squashing effect done by the BAT.

Front view

Front/Right view

Back/Left view

And some shots from the BAT Rendering.

   

South                                                                                            North

  

East                                                                                               West

[Francis90b 748]

Well, it looks like a nice model so far!

It was a wise move to start with something easier at first, and the result turned out pretty well.

I have some things to notice though.

-Window frames:

Sadly Gmax doesn't render those small details very well, so you have to exagerate them a bit.

You see, right now the mullions of your homes are barely noticeale in your renders.You have to made them somewhat thicker.0.1m to 0,15m is usually a good parameter, but try until it looks right to you (the way you can make the mullions more noticeable withouth exagerate too much their dimensions).

-Roof:

Which way did you model the roof?

In your perspective shots it seems like the edge between the slopes of your gabled roof looks sharp, while it looks curved in your renders.If i know how did you model the roof i might suggest a way to avoid this problem.

[Hard_Justice 0]

Originally posted by: Francis90b

-Roof:

Which way did you model the roof?

In your perspective shots it seems like the edge between the slopes of your gabled roof looks sharp, while it looks curved in your renders.If i know how did you model the roof i might suggest a way to avoid this problem.

quote>

I just used the line feature in gmax and traced the out line of the building.  But I see what you are talking about and I think I also have a fix for that.  Still, I would like  to hear your fix.

**UPDATE 11/17/09**

This is a short update.  I have added the shutters, two small light fixtures and a furnace vent on the roof.  I also believe I have corrected the rounded effect that the roof had.  I added three textures, the porch, roof and walls.