Comparing Simcity and Cities XL

[ScaryMonkey 0]

Originally posted by: IntoxiNation

Honestly what I would love to see is a group of city building fans who are also developers get together and build an open source game. I know some fans from the Roller Coaster Tycoon series are doing exactly that. In a capitalistic world having a free (as in beer) alternative out there, which really pushes the envelope, is the best way to get the ultimate quality out of commercial software.

quote>

That's actually about what I think needs to happen... albeit not exactly like that.  In fact, I doubt we'll see a real SC4 successor any other way.  I just started a blog on ST to talk about that kind of approach:

http://blogs.simtropolis.com/nextgen/

Kind of long but it explains pretty thoroughly why I think that's the way forward and how it could potentially happen for real.

[Livin in Sim 83]

[IntoxiNation 0]

Originally posted by: ScaryMonkey

That's actually about what I think needs to happen... albeit not exactly like that.  In fact, I doubt we'll see a real SC4 successor any other way.  I just started a blog on ST to talk about that kind of approach:

http://blogs.simtropolis.com/nextgen/

Kind of long but it explains pretty thoroughly why I think that's the way forward and how it could potentially happen for real.

quote>

Great blog post. I never thought about searching for open source city simulators before, but I found a couple this morning. LinCity-ng is pretty cool. It's a bare basic simulator but it looks like it has some solid development behind it.

Freecol also isn't too shabby. It's more so a cross between SC and Civ.

IMHO getting together a group of talented people who would be interested in such a project and starting a discussion to figure out rather the features we want are feesible from a community OSS project stand point would be the appropriate first move. This wouldn't have to be limited to only developers (most likely C/++), but also the people who have put out some of the great custom content, since such a project would also need graphic designers.

Your idea of donations for such a project is great. Having been involved in a few open source projects I can say that people are willing to donate some money if you are putting out a project they really enjoy.

[logan86 1]

i love this idea. i would love any idea that would ultimatly lead to an improved, updated, modern day sc4 with even more features and all the bells and whistles so to speak. that would be awesome.

[Apache 0]

Look im not here to argue about Cities XL a game that is under future development and is currently working on improving itself to a Simcity 5 game that is not even talked about. EA doesnt have any intentions on making it and no talks are coming about so that being said its a fact that Cities XL will cont. to make progress in the CB genre while Simcity is slowly forgotten yes they maybe going in the wrong direction BUT they will only develop from here on out UNLIKE simcity .....because simcity is done and everyone knows it. Again....you either get on this train now or you cont. to wait for something that will never happen ....all I am saying is Simcity is done ...even though SIMCITY ROCKS but im just being honest something people just do not want to see ...Sorry to burst your bubble CITIES XL FTW

[logan86 1]

but it doesnt have to be called sim city, and it certainly doesnt have to be published by EA. in fact i hope we are saved from the horror that would be upon us if that were the case. it could be a brand new game, with a brand new name, from a completely new publisher/developer. as long as its good it doesnt really matter where its from. so even if sim city is gone it doesnt mean that there cant still be a city builder thats actually good. just because sim city is gone, that doesnt mean we all have to give up hope completely. how awful would it have been if after half life no one ever made a good first person shooter ever again.

[RegisterST2 0]

Originally posted by: Apache

you either get on this train now or you cont. to wait for something that will never happen ..quote>

You're under this mysterious idea that there are only two options and they are the only two options.  If you don't take #1, you are doomed forever to #2.

1)  Jump on a train right this minute heading in the wrong direction simply because it exists

2)  Wait for the EA train that's not coming...and do this forever

In fact, there are other options:

1)  Jump on a train right this minute heading in the wrong direction simply because it exists

2)  Wait for the EA train that's not coming...and do this forever

3)  See if MC turns the CXL train around...whether it's in 3 months or 3 years, if they turn it around I can jump on it then

4)  See if a totally different train comes by, and if that's heading in the right direction jump on that

If I choose option #3 or #4, while I wait I continue to use the game I enjoy more than CXL and have enjoyed for years.

Jumping on a new train just to go somewhere I don't want to go just because the train exists doesn't really interest me.

[ScaryMonkey 0]

Well said, RegisteringSucks; If Cities XL does come back from the brink, all well and good; But at the same time I'm starting to get tired of being beholden to game companies to make the game I want to play. Frankly, I think it's time we tried option 5: get our money together and commission a new train, exactly the way we want it.

[Apache 0]

Originally posted by: RegisteringSucks

Originally posted by: Apache

you either get on this train now or you cont. to wait for something that will never happen ..quote>

You're under this mysterious idea that there are only two options and they are the only two options.  If you don't take #1, you are doomed forever to #2.

1)  Jump on a train right this minute heading in the wrong direction simply because it exists

2)  Wait for the EA train that's not coming...and do this forever

In fact, there are other options:

1)  Jump on a train right this minute heading in the wrong direction simply because it exists

2)  Wait for the EA train that's not coming...and do this forever

3)  See if MC turns the CXL train around...whether it's in 3 months or 3 years, if they turn it around I can jump on it then

4)  See if a totally different train comes by, and if that's heading in the right direction jump on that

If I choose option #3 or #4, while I wait I continue to use the game I enjoy more than CXL and have enjoyed for years.

Jumping on a new train just to go somewhere I don't want to go just because the train exists doesn't really interest me.quote>

...sigh...Your opt. # 3 and #4 and also #2 are all the same dont you see that ...its waiting for sim city or "the next city builder" game to come ....this just in Cities XL IS the Next "city Builder" so again I will state my point....its simple your either on the train with Cities XL giving helpful tips on how to improve its product OR your at the train station waiting for YEARS for the next sim city EA has no plans on making ...just saying ....its ok to sit back and wait for something while everything else passes you by its just alot of us are on the Cities XL train and alot of people are holding there sim city 4 cover box talking about back in the day lol

 

[RegisterST2 0]

Originally posted by: RegisteringSucks

3)  See if MC turns the CXL train around...whether it's in 3 months or 3 years, if they turn it around I can jump on it then

 quote>

Originally posted by: Apache

...sigh...Your opt. # 3 and #4 and also #2 are all the same dont you see that ...its waiting for sim city or "the next city builder" game to come ....this just in Cities XL IS the Next "city Builder" so again I will state my point....

  quote>

Originally posted by: Apache

yes they maybe going in the wrong direction BUT they will only develop from here on out UNLIKE simcity quote>

You've just said they're going in the wrong direction.  Do you think they can turn it around?

If you think they can turn it around, then option #3 is perfectly valid, is it not?  I will watch you guys ride in the wrong direction and pay for the privilege of doing so,then when MC turns it around, I'll grab it on the way back.  I don't understand how this doesn't make sense?

If you don't think they can turn it around....why are you so happy to be on a train heading the wrong way?

*shrugs*  Enjoy your train ride I guess.

 

[Apache 0]

Originally posted by: RegisteringSucks

Originally posted by: RegisteringSucks

3)  See if MC turns the CXL train around...whether it's in 3 months or 3 years, if they turn it around I can jump on it then

 quote>

Originally posted by: Apache

...sigh...Your opt. # 3 and #4 and also #2 are all the same dont you see that ...its waiting for sim city or "the next city builder" game to come ....this just in Cities XL IS the Next "city Builder" so again I will state my point....

  quote>

Originally posted by: Apache

yes they maybe going in the wrong direction BUT they will only develop from here on out UNLIKE simcity quote>

You've just said they're going in the wrong direction.  Do you think they can turn it around?

If you think they can turn it around, then option #3 is perfectly valid, is it not?  I will watch you guys ride in the wrong direction and pay for the privilege of doing so,then when MC turns it around, I'll grab it on the way back.  I don't understand how this doesn't make sense?

If you don't think they can turn it around....why are you so happy to be on a train heading the wrong way?

*shrugs*  Enjoy your train ride I guess.

 quote>

Read carefully better yet ill clear up for you....Cities XL Is the next thing and the ONLY CB game out at least today anyways Simcity is done and we cant compare Cities XL to SimCity 5 because well simcity is no longer with us ....i agree sadly to say unless you wish to compare Cities XL to Simcity Societes with is totally not far for Simcity nor is comparing Cities Xl to Simcity fair because look how far it has come in the long streatch of time. My point is this Cities XL has come out and will cont. to adapt to the CB fan base if it wants to see its product be successful and bring in huge amounts of revune i mean what company doesnt....the problem here is that people still think there will be a simcity 5.....i so hope so but thats never going to happen . I am on the Cities xl train because i have faith in not only the product but in MC hey why not you cant hit a home run your first time at bat right? Look like i said before you either have faith in MC and the product they have made or you sit in a circle with simcity fans and talk about how good the old days where and how you will cont to wait for EA or whoever...i choose to put my money and faith in MC and city xl. "Some people only cheer for the winning team because its easy and because who wouldnt...others like myself cheer for the team even when they are losing and when all the chips are stacked against them"  You have no faith in this game and will cont. to play simcity 4 until you get tired of grid like cities i suppose but thats ok we have different tastes 

 

[RegisterST2 0]

Originally posted by: Apache

i choose to put my money and faith in MC and city xl.

 quote>

This is the real difference between you and me, I guess.

You consider yourself an investor in MC.  The game is not what you wanted, but you think if you help fund MC they might make a game you really want.

I don't view myself as an investor.  I am a customer.  When companies make products I like, I buy them.  I don't put hope and faith and money into companies hoping I end up with a product I like.  They make the product first and then I buy it.

I am glad you are here though.  If you keep funding MC, they might make the game I want to buy.   Then I can buy the game at that time.

Now I understand where you're coming from better, I think I'll end my part in this conversation.  It has to be getting tedious for other people to read about trains going here, there and everywhere.

btw, I think it was mildly ironic we used trains as our metaphor considering CXL has no trains.

Anyways, enjoy your game.

[logan86 1]

hmmm, indeed. i do have one thought, if they had any intention of giving us even a little bit of what we wanted, they would have already done it. they have made their intentions clear. if they do turn the train round it will be against their will, and only when they have already come to the brink of failiure. then maybe they might start listening to people. also i do find it funny that cxl has no trains so that just kind of sums it all up really. wow, i've had a really angry 24 hours or so with mc and this game

[Deathcat001 8]

the train could come to a station and turn around there???

i mean theres always an end and a start.

Maybe MC realises its not working for them and stops and turns round.

[HazhN 0]

The only city building game, right now, that could beat SimCity 4 would be SimCity 5. Due to copyright reasons, other games can't make the gameplay like SimCity, and the best gameplay is the one in SimCity(1-4, not Societies. Societies is a fail).

Btw, SimCity have much more experience on city building games than Monte Cristo.

[Apache 0]

This is all im saying either you buy and enjoy Cities XL or you sit around crying about how Cities XL isnt for you simple really ....just please stop crying it makes you look bad if its not your game then move on simple really I enjoy simcity AND Cities XL so I have both simple really but you wont hear me crying how I dont like a game ....what good will that do?? If MC wants to change their style of thinking then ok if not then ok....im going to sit here and cry about it ...your either stuck holding your Simcity 4 cover box hoping someone will make a Simcity 5 game until the end of time or you buy Cities XL simple BUY OR DONT BUY....crying about things wont change anything your either a fan of CB or your a fan of Simcity

[John-SJ 13]

Looking backon knightrider's comments about CXL lacking the concept of porperty value and how that translates into game mechanics, it looks to me as if CXL has a lot more in common with SimCity Societies and CityLife than it does with SC4.

I played the CXL demo for a bit and was under-impressed with it.  Now, learning that if I don't pay a monthy fee I will be missing out on many important game features, I can see the point of those who say that CXL is a train headed in the wrong direction.

I played CityLife for a few weeks when I got it, and I played SCS for a similar period when I got that game.  I really can't see myself spending $40 on a game that is likely to give me so little enjoyment.

Maybe some day CXL will evolve into a game I can enjoy, and maybe it won't.  For now I will wait and see, and comtinue to play a game that I do enjoy, SC4.

[knightrider 0]

Apache, I am glad you enjoy the game. For the most part, I don't see people crying. I see well-reasoned commentary on why some of us, not all, but some, find CXL to be much less engaging than SC4. I am a vocal critic of CXL, but I am happy to engage in discussion with those who do like the game as well as those who agree with me.

This SimCity 5 thing gets thrown around a lot, and I don't like the term. First of all, we did get SimCity 5, it was Societies. But mainly I don't like the term because I'm not necessarily looking for SC5, nor do I want an SC4 clone. I simply want a game that is an improvement upon the current CB standard. I want better than SC4.

MC were the ones who lumped CXL in with SC4. They have stated they were aiming to take SC4's spot. The logical way to do this would be to expand upon the things that SC4 got right, while improving the things SC4 got wrong. Had they done this with CXL, we would have this same thread, only it would be about how dorky SC4 was compared to CXL. However, CXL, in my opinion, failed to do so. Instead, it breaks everything that worked fine and then finds new things to break.

[PLB82 0]

Well, I took the plunge last night and DL'd Cities XL.

It's important to go into the game NOT expecting SimCity, because that's just setting yourself up for disappointment.  If you can get it into your head that this is going to be a totally different experience, and be okay with that, then there are certainly elements to enjoy.

The big difference between the two for me is this:  SimCity is aptly named, as it is a city simulator.  The city feels so much more like an oraganism, growing and changing in response to the stimuli that you supply.  Downtown high rises require careful cultivation and planning, and the city really feels like it is developing before your eyes.

Cities XL, on the other hand, is much more of a city designer.  Almost like playing a game built on AutoCAD.  You can build a high rise as your first building if you so desire.  And while in SimCity, you feel like the city reacts to you, in CXL you do much more reacting to the city you build.  Built your high rise office, but it needs more execs?  Build exec housing.  The execs want more leisure?  Build a cultural center.

Both require a ton of planning to get it right, but still the SimCity approach feels much more rewarding to me.  I always loved seeing that first high-desnity CO-$$$ skyscraper climb up, because it represented a careful cultivation.  In CXL it looks cooler, but I don't get the same satisfaction from plopping it, reading what it needs to really function well, and then meeting those needs afterwards.

Beyond that, there are of course differences in the mechanics of laying down your city that have been discussed ad naseum on this site.  CXL has the best road-laying system for a building game ever.  I'm amazed at bridges and how easy they are and how good they look.  SC4 had pretty much mastered the zoning system, and CXL feels like a step back to the original SimCity in that regard.  But they are two different games, and they are meant to be different.  Both have something different to offer, and there will be long-term reward to be found in playing CXL I think.  My biggest problem with CXL- and you can compare this to any great game, not just SC4- is the feeling that the game a bit rushed and incomplete.  When you click on an icon that is supposed to be for building mass transit (I assume), and nothing happens, it is a bit of a letdown.  It woudln't be such an issue for me  if I wasn't paying (or at this point, rather, considering for paying) for a monthly subscription to play a currently incomplete game.

[John-SJ 13]

Please allow me to be a lit nit-picky about terminology here.

People have lumped CXL into the same category as other city builder games, and I think, rightly so.  CXL has a lot in common with its predecessor, CityLife.  It also shares many elements with other CBs such as SCS, the Caesar series, and Children Of The Nile.  Some of these games are excellent games, and CXL finds itself in good company as part of that group.

But there is another game category that is very different from the CB game, and that is the City Simulator (CS) game, of which, to the best of my knowledge, the SimCity series are the only commercially available examples.

Personally, I like the indirect style of city management found in CS games better than the direct, hands on style of the CB.  I know many will disagree with me here, and that's okay, to each his/her own.  But I really do see a big distinction between the two styles.

[rhenry 1]

I love it and I hate it at the same time. I had to go out and buy a new video card to even play it on Saturday, which is not a big deal as my SimCity game runs better now, too, though I lost audio and, as a music producer, I'm desparate but fruitless in my effort to get it back - but that's another forum altogether.

It's a beautiful looking game, more than Societies (sucky, good looking game) and I love the expansive area you can build on. I wish there was more variety in the growable buildings, I wish I didn't have to join the online community for buses and trains because I don't have my game computer on line - never have.

I wish I could have more ploppable buildings, more map variety - custom would be awesome.

I think it's challenging enough, requires patience, which I like. I am finding that if you get just the right amount of each worker at a given population size you can hold it steady at certain points and just let the money roll in and then plop down another zone when you're ready to grow. I like that my city isn't catching fire constantly (I know it's more realistic but I could live without fires in SimCity.)

I really hate when my industries start crying for oil because I don't know how to get any except to buy it from Omniwhoever but I never have enough tokens, which seem to go up and down and I don't know why - plus I seem to be entering into deals with that omniguy without even knowing it. I got a city up to 300,000 people yesterday and then the whole thing collapsed due to an inability to find fuel. I hate that the only areas with oil seem to be full of mountains that are unsightly to build on.

I like the farms but hate that I can only use them on certain maps.

So far I have found only 2 maps I like to build on. I like larger rivers - I mean, what city builds on a creek? - but I don't get one.

I love the roads - love, love, LOVE them.

and finally, the terraformer SUCKS.

So, after 2 days with the game, I think over all I love it. I can't wait until custom content becomes available to open up more possibilities.

[Apache 0]

Originally posted by: knightrider

Apache, I am glad you enjoy the game. For the most part, I don't see people crying. I see well-reasoned commentary on why some of us, not all, but some, find CXL to be much less engaging than SC4. I am a vocal critic of CXL, but I am happy to engage in discussion with those who do like the game as well as those who agree with me.

This SimCity 5 thing gets thrown around a lot, and I don't like the term. First of all, we did get SimCity 5, it was Societies. But mainly I don't like the term because I'm not necessarily looking for SC5, nor do I want an SC4 clone. I simply want a game that is an improvement upon the current CB standard. I want better than SC4.

MC were the ones who lumped CXL in with SC4. They have stated they were aiming to take SC4's spot. The logical way to do this would be to expand upon the things that SC4 got right, while improving the things SC4 got wrong. Had they done this with CXL, we would have this same thread, only it would be about how dorky SC4 was compared to CXL. However, CXL, in my opinion, failed to do so. Instead, it breaks everything that worked fine and then finds new things to break.quote>

We agree both I think that at this point Simcity has a better approach to CB and that we would so much love for another simcity type game to come out BUT here is where we grow apart....for one NOONE will ever build another Simcity game or anything like it not EA not another company Simcity Societes FAILED so bad people will have second thoughts now....Simcity the name has lost loyal customers ....two Cities XL is a great game its totally different then Simcity and people knock on it for not being simcity..:l ok first of all its called Cities XL not Simcity whaterver Cities is on the map MC is on the map and have dived in the CB genre while simcity is slowly being forgotten to be honest the Cities XL apporach is beggining to grow on me ...and thats ok some people will let it grow on them and others will hang on to simcity 4 waiting for something that will not happen its called having different tastes and thats ok its just im a fan of CB games not just simcity

[tbro221 0]

Here's my simple suggestion to EA. Simply update simcity4 to a more modern graphics engine. EA has alot of experience with modern graphic engines so I can't see it being dufficult to just update it.

[Evillions 552]

Well as a beta tester. With the expection of a few bugs... I guess this game is good enough for those who don't have the time or just bored. The only suggestions I would give is give us all the PO content every month meaning us the solo players, and the requirements for some buildings. I just want an open sandbox and custom content and create a city MY way. Not the meaning: "One size fits all!" type of thing, and it will NEVER will.

[knightrider 0]

Originally posted by: Apache

We agree both I think that at this point Simcity has a better approach to CB and that we would so much love for another simcity type game to come out BUT here is where we grow apart....for one NOONE will ever build another Simcity game or anything like it not EA not another company Simcity Societes FAILED so bad people will have second thoughts now....Simcity the name has lost loyal customers ....two Cities XL is a great game its totally different then Simcity and people knock on it for not being simcity..:l ok first of all its called Cities XL not Simcity whaterver Cities is on the map MC is on the map and have dived in the CB genre while simcity is slowly being forgotten to be honest the Cities XL apporach is beggining to grow on me ...and thats ok some people will let it grow on them and others will hang on to simcity 4 waiting for something that will not happen its called having different tastes and thats ok its just im a fan of CB games not just simcity

quote>

I don't oppose the style of CXL simply because it's different, I just don't enjoy it.  For me, when I start designing a city, I expect it to react in a logical way that, for the most part, mimics real world mechanics.  In this way, I'd like to see the game follow real world rules instead of arbitrary, board game rules.  Maybe a company will make another game that attempts realism, like SC4 did.  Perhaps you are right, and no one will ever attempt this, and CXL is the future of city builders.  For me, if CXL is the future of city builders, I hope another city builder is never, ever made.

[ScaryMonkey 0]

Well said Knightrider.  For my part, though, I don't mind saying frankly that I *do* want a replacement for SC4;  It's seven years old, showing it's age, and I'm certainly less interested in playing as time goes on.  My disappointment with Cities XL stems from my expectation that it *would* replace Sim City 4, an expectation based on Monte Cristo's explicit statement that that's what they were setting out to do. 

But now they've decided on a different direction, and I don't fault them for that, it's their right as a company;  However, that new direction doesn't interest me, and doesn't replace SC4;  And what I don't understand is some people's assertion that I should play Cities XL because "there's nothing else coming".  In that case I'll just do something else, it's not as though I have to choose between a game I'm gradually losing interest in and a game I don't like;  I've got literally hundreds of books to read, movies to watch, other games to play... I could even, you know, spend time with my family.

And although I agree with Apache that, unfortunately, it seems unlikely that any other company will make a game on Sim City 4's level, I think there's something we can do about it;  As for what that is... well, I hate to be that guy who's always saying "read my blog" but I already typed out my idea there once and I can't be asked to type it all again

[John-SJ 13]

It's hard for me to understand why CXL doesn't have a region mode.  After all, this is one of SC4's absolute best features.  And, since technology has advanced since SC4's release, I find it hard to believe that MC wouldn't give us region mode, only on a planetary scale.

As nightrider suggests in another thread, trading with nearby nearby cities should be easy, and relatively inexpensive.  The further from home you trade, the more expensive it becomes.

And of course, "planetary mode" would be available in single player as well.  I should be able to construct cities that are of mutual benefit, one to another, and my cities should interact as nightrider described in SP mode, just as they would in PO mode.

Instead, MC gave us OmniCorp, the only trading partner choice given to SP mode players.

As I mentioned earlier, and I am sure that most, if not all, SC4 fans would agree, region play is one of the most important features of SC4.  For MC not to capitaize on this and extend region play to planetary play (or at least to enhance it in some substantial way) is a giant step backwards in my opinion.

With this addition and the inclusion of mass transit options, I might even be tempted to by CXL myself.

[PyroMancer 0]

Originally posted by: ScaryMonkey

I doubt that very much;  EA holds the trademark for the name "Sim City" but you can't copyright gameplay;  As long as they don't directly copy code or art assets, or call the game "Sim City 5" they are free to make it however they like from a legal point of view.

quote>

Actually you can to a curtain extent. I don't know if you recall but a few years back Sega sued Fox because Simpsons Road Rage had some side missions where you "Taxi" people around town. The claim was that they copied The Crazy Taxi series gameplay. I don't recall all the details of the case but that was the basis of it.

Also when I was studying programming our teacher told us how it was actually possible to copyright some aspects of mechanics, user interface, and etc. This to ensure someone doesn't simly make a copy of the software you made and sell it under their own name. It has to be significantly different. I don't really know all the legality issues but again that is the general premise.

Anyhow I'm sure now that EA owns the rights to the SimCity sieres they also own the rights to many of the core aspects that make it unqiue. Like "Zoning" an area and letting it develop based on demand, property values, and so on. That is probably why we haven't seen any other CB type games use that model. I've only seen a few other CB style games and most of the others seem to be based on setting down specific buildings or types of buildings.

Granted even if the case wouldn't hold up in court I don't think anyone want to risk taking on EA in a legal battle so they simply make wide turns to steer clear. Also these types of cases can be brought at ANY time. The case with Crazy Taxi suing The Simpsons happened like a year or two after the game was out and had been successful.

The key to such cases is waiting to see if they actually do pose a threat and make a lot of money then sweep in and take a large block of the profit for themselves. So it's likely EA would wait to see if it was successful then they would sweep in and sue. Because they make a lot more money that way since it's not speculation on how well it would do vs laywer cost. They already know the outcome of the product sales.

[ScaryMonkey 0]

Yeah, good point, I suppose whatever the merits of the actual case might be, I wouldn't put it past EA to try and lawyer their competition to death.

That's why you make it open source... who do they sue then?

[sacasoh 0]

Originally posted by: PyroMancer

Originally posted by: ScaryMonkey

I doubt that very much;  EA holds the trademark for the name "Sim City" but you can't copyright gameplay;  As long as they don't directly copy code or art assets, or call the game "Sim City 5" they are free to make it however they like from a legal point of view.

quote>

Actually you can to a curtain extent. I don't know if you recall but a few years back Sega sued Fox because Simpsons Road Rage had some side missions where you "Taxi" people around town. The claim was that they copied The Crazy Taxi series gameplay. I don't recall all the details of the case but that was the basis of it.

Also when I was studying programming our teacher told us how it was actually possible to copyright some aspects of mechanics, user interface, and etc. This to ensure someone doesn't simly make a copy of the software you made and sell it under their own name. It has to be significantly different. I don't really know all the legality issues but again that is the general premise.

Anyhow I'm sure now that EA owns the rights to the SimCity sieres they also own the rights to many of the core aspects that make it unqiue. Like "Zoning" an area and letting it develop based on demand, property values, and so on. That is probably why we haven't seen any other CB type games use that model. I've only seen a few other CB style games and most of the others seem to be based on setting down specific buildings or types of buildings. ...

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Well, i don't know much about the commom law, but i can say to you that anyone can't own the rights to generic features or mechanics .  "Like "Zoning" an area and letting it develop based on demand, property values, and so on", to copyright it is the same to microsoft trying to copyright the flight simulator and to sue anyone that tries to do a flight sim, the mechanics are all based on real world correspondent. Obvisiouly you can't do a straight copy of interface or use their assets, and so on... The point is: i think that simulation city building is a niche market that don't sell enought to have titles coming out every year... if you the companies "dumb down" the games certainly they will piss off hardcore gamers, but will attract younger consumers... So, all this time, all companies could have done a "SC5", but instead they invested on FPS and other styles that are aimed to people that have to see a explosion every 20 seconds to continue playing the game. It's called profit and we can't blame them for that, can we?