Lockerbie bomber 'to be released'

[belfastuniguy 18]

Lockerbie bomber 'to be released'

I would just be horrified, says Kathleen Flynn who lost her son in the bombing

The Libyan man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing is likely to be freed on compassionate grounds next week, the BBC understands.

Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi, who has terminal prostate cancer, is serving life for murdering 270 people when Pan Am flight 103 exploded in 1988.

Scottish ministers described the development as "complete speculation".

Kathleen Flynn, whose son died on the plane, told the BBC she was horrified the "terrorist" could be released.

She added that he showed no mercy as he planted his bomb and should "never qualify for anything compassionate".

"Did Megrahi as he planted a bomb on a US airliner reflect on any compassion for the people he was about to blow up out of the skies and the people on the ground in Lockerbie? I think not," she said.

Megrahi was ordered to serve a minimum of 27 years in jail Reaction to bomber 'release' Lengthy legal road from Lockerbie

The BBC's Daniel Sandford in Washington said "broadly" families in the UK were concerned about the conviction, whereas US relatives were convinced of his guilt.

American Susan Cohen, whose 20-year-old daughter Theodora also died, said: "Any letting out of Megrahi would be a disgrace. It makes me sick, and if there is a compassionate release then I think that is vile."

But Pamela Dix, from UK Families Flight 103, said there had been a "lack of justice" for the victims, which included her brother Peter.

She told BBC Two's Newsnight she was "baffled" by much of the evidence in the trial that led to Megrahi's conviction in 2001.

'Just a tool'

And Martin Cadman, who lost his son in the bombing, said he believed Mergrahi was an innocent man who had acted with others.

He said: "As far as I know the Scottish authorities and no-one else has done anything to try and find who these others were that were supposed to be implicated, so the whole thing is really very unsatisfactory".

Bob Monetti, a past president of the organisation Victims of Flight 103, lost his 20-year-old son Richard in the bombing.

He told BBC Radio's Good Morning Scotland programme: "We understand that Megrahi was just a tool in this. He wasn't really the person that decided what to do.

Glenn Campbell, BBC Scotland political correspondent I understand preparations for Mr Megrahi's release are being made in time for him to be home with his family in Libya by Ramadan, which starts next Friday. The Parole Board for Scotland has been asked to give its opinion on compassionate release. The Libyan authorities - who have held high level talks with the Scottish justice secretary in recent days - have also been advised to make plans to fly Mr Megrahi back to Tripoli. The Scottish Government is right to say "no decision has been taken" - but that should change in the next few days and the likelihood is Mr Megrahi will return to Libya by next weekend. Send us your comments

"We would really rather see Gadaffi in jail.

"But Megrahi was the one who was convicted and lost his appeal. So I am really happy to see him in jail and not happy to see him anywhere else."

It is believed UK and Libyan officials have held talks this week over Megrahi's appeal against his conviction.

The speed of his transfer is thought to be influenced by consensus among all parties that Megrahi be back on Libyan soil in time for Ramadan next week.

News of his release came after Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill visited Megrahi in prison, amid speculation he might be moved to Libya.

A prisoner transfer request was made by Libya to the UK government last May, less than a week after a treaty allowing prisoners to be transferred between the two countries was ratified.

But a spokesman for Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond said: "No decision has been taken, either on the application for compassionate release or the application under the prisoner transfer agreement and so it is entirely speculation."

A Scottish Government spokesman added that a decision was expected from Mr MacAskill this month.

Mr MacAskill said last week he would miss the 90-day deadline, which expired on 3 August, because he was waiting for more information.

A prisoner transfer cannot take place if criminal proceedings are active, meaning Megrahi would have to drop his latest appeal against his conviction in order to be sent home.

It is difficult to see why the Scottish Government seems to have weighted the balance of compassion in favour of the criminal and against the interests of the victims, their families and the general public Robert Brown Lib Dem justice spokesman

Scottish Liberal Democrat justice spokesman Robert Brown said: "If this decision is confirmed then it is wrong in principle, wrong in practice and sets the wrong precedent.

"This is a man who was convicted in a Scottish court under the eyes of the world of the worst atrocity in Scotland in modern times.

"In a case like this it is difficult to see why the Scottish Government seems to have weighted the balance of compassion in favour of the criminal and against the interests of the victims, their families and the general public."

Scottish Conservative justice spokesman John Lamont said it would be a "catastrophic decision" if Megrahi were to be released without compelling medical evidence that he was gravely ill.

South of Scotland SNP MSP Christine Grahame, who has visited Megrahi in prison, said he was "very ill" and was not expected to live beyond the end of the year.

'Very ill'

She stressed she had no inside information whether he was to be released.

She said: "If it is the case, and it's still speculation, compassionate release is just not only for Mr Megrahi but the victims' families."

Ms Grahame said she had not spoken to him in recent days but he was getting "very ill and pretty desperate".

She also predicted that Megrahi's appeal would continue even if he was granted compassionate release.

Medical evidence

Megrahi was ordered to remain in prison for a minimum of 27 years, having been found guilty of the bombing - the UK's worst terrorist atrocity.

Megrahi's legal team had also made a request for him to released from prison on compassionate grounds.

An earlier request, made in October 2008, was rejected by Appeal Court judges after they heard medical evidence that with adequate palliative care, Megrahi could live for several years.

The court heard that such requests are normally only granted where a prisoner has fewer than three months to live.quote>

Clinton urges no Megrahi release

Megrahi's second appeal against his conviction started this year

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has personally urged Scotland's justice secretary not to free the man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing.

A spokesman said she "expressed strongly" the view to Kenny MacAskill that Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi should serve out his sentence in Scotland.

Earlier it was confirmed the Libyan had applied to abandon his appeal against his conviction.

Terminally-ill Megrahi is serving a life sentence at Greenock Prison.

On Wednesday BBC News revealed that Kenny MacAskill was likely to announce next week that Megrahi, who is gravely ill with prostate cancer, would be released on compassionate grounds.

US State Department spokesman Philip Crowley said there were "compelling reasons" why Megrahi should remain in jail.

He said: "Our interest is justice, and our interest is the commitment that we made to the families that we would find the perpetrator of this terrorism act, bring him to justice, working with the United Kingdom and with Scotland.

There are a number of vested interests who have been deeply opposed to this appeal continuing as they know it would go a considerable way towards exposing the truth behind Lockerbie Christine Grahame MSP

"He was brought to trial. He had a fair trial. He was convicted. He's serving his time. And we think he should stay in jail."

Mr MacAskill is also considering a request from the Libyan government for Megrahi to be returned to Libya under a prisoner transfer deal with Britain.

Abandoning his appeal could pave the way for his return home because a transfer cannot take place if criminal proceedings are active.

'No pressure'

The Scottish government said no decision had yet been taken on Megrahi's future and insisted no pressure had been put on him to abandon his appeal.

But South of Scotland SNP MSP Christine Grahame, who has met Megrahi several times in prison, said she believed he had been put under pressure.

Brian Taylor, BBC Scotland political editor The Scottish legal system might well welcome closure of this protracted, challenging case. The counter point of view, advanced by Nationalist MSP Christine Grahame among others, is that Scottish justice is better served by persisting in efforts to dig out the truth. Then there is the issue of compassion. Megrahi is said to be terminally ill with prostate cancer. Regardless of other issues, should the justice secretary pay heed to that? Either way, relatives of those who died are decidedly not content. There are those who believe that Megrahi is guilty and who say there should be no deal whatsoever: he should remain in jail in Scotland. Those who believe he is innocent - and consequently welcome his release - nevertheless are voicing distress that the emerging shape of events means that the search for further information will be stalled. 'An amazing coincidence'

She said: "I know from the lengthy discussions I had with him that he was desperate to clear his name, so I believe that the decision is not entirely his own.

"There are a number of vested interests who have been deeply opposed to this appeal continuing as they know it would go a considerable way towards exposing the truth behind Lockerbie.

"Some serious scrutiny will be required to determine exactly why Mr Megrahi is now dropping his appeal and examination of what pressure he has come under."

She renewed her calls for a full public inquiry into the bombing.

She added: "In the next days, weeks and months new information will be placed in the public domain that will make it clear that Mr Megrahi had nothing to do with the bombing of Pan Am 103."

Megrahi is the only person to be convicted over the 1988 bombing which claimed 270 lives.

His lawyers said he had applied to the High Court in Edinburgh two days ago to abandon his appeal against conviction.

A spokesman for the legal firm Taylor and Kelly said: "As the appeal hearing has commenced... leave of the court is required before the appeal can be formally abandoned."

A court hearing to discuss the application will take place in Edinburgh next Tuesday.

'Cloak and dagger'

Conservative justice spokesman Bill Aitken said clarity was needed from the Scottish Government.

"Too much of this story has been characterised by secret briefings, hints of special deals and international cloak and dagger," he said.

"The Lockerbie atrocity cannot descend into this kind of diplomacy by spin and stealth."

He said there needed to be "compelling medical evidence of extreme ill health" before any release on compassionate grounds.

Nothing that the Scottish Government has done or said suggests pressure on anybody to do anything First Minister Alex Salmond

First Minister Alex Salmond said the Scottish Government denied any pressure had been placed on the Libyan to drop his second appeal.

Speaking in Edinburgh before Megrahi's application to drop his appeal was announced, he said: "We have no interest in pressurising people to drop appeals, why on earth should we?

"That's not our position - never has been."

He added: "Nothing that the Scottish Government has done or said suggests pressure on anybody to do anything."

He also said the issue would not be discussed at cabinet on Tuesday, saying it was a judicial matter, not a political one.

"This is a matter the justice secretary must determine and he must do it purely on judicial grounds, which is what he's been doing," he said.

Sentence appeal

Megrahi was convicted of murder in January 2001 at a trial held under Scottish law in the Netherlands.

A first appeal against that verdict was rejected the following year.

His second appeal got under way this year but shortly afterwards applications were made for both his transfer to a Libyan jail and release on compassionate grounds.

Separately, the Crown Office is appealing against the length of the sentence handed out to Megrahi.

A Crown Office spokesman said that its appeal remained live.

The spokesman would not be drawn on whether that appeal would be dropped alongside Megrahi's appeal against conviction.

quote>

Bomber 'treated like a celebrity'

Megrahi has been diagnosed with terminal prostate cancer

One of Scotland's leading defence lawyers has accused the Scottish Government of treating the Lockerbie bomber like a celebrity.

Paul McBride QC called on the justice secretary to make an urgent statement to Parliament about whether Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi is about to be released.

Kenny MacAskill is expected to announce this week that the cancer patient will be freed on compassionate grounds.

The Scottish Government said Mr McBride was politicking over a serious issue.

The QC, who advises the Conservative party on law and order, said: "Megrahi is being treated well by the Scottish Government, he is being feted as almost a celebrity.

"The way the Scottish Justice Secretary has conducted his business has been ham-fisted.

"We have what appears to be a shoddy, underhand, unexplained, secretive deal.

"When are we going to hear from the Scottish Government about what its position actually is."

Megrahi is the only person to be convicted over the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, which claimed 270 lives.

Paul McBride QC said Megrahi would be given a hero's welcome in Libya

Mr McBride described the manner in which the Libyan's possible release was being discussed as "beyond shameful" and said Mr MacAskill should have recalled Parliament to discuss the matter.

The 57-year-old was being given extraordinary, special treatment with decisions about his fate being made in secrecy, he said.

He told BBC Scotland he was angry that Mr MacAskill visited Megrahi in jail and said other prisoners do not get that right.

Mr McBride said he was in danger of turning Scotland into "an international laughing stock", and called for Westminster to become involved in the discussions.

A spokesperson for Mr MacAskill said: "Mr McBride speaks as a Conservative party advocate, he made this same attack 10 days ago, and such politicking has no place in what is a highly serious and important issue.

"Mr McBride should be aware that a Conservative spokesperson at Westminster, Daniel Kawczynski MP, has actually written to the justice secretary saying that Mr Megrahi should be used as a foreign policy "bargaining chip", which is as extraordinary as it is inappropriate in relation to deciding on the applications for compassionate release and prisoner transfer.

"The justice secretary is yet to decide on these applications, and he will do so on a proper judicial basis, and the Conservative party should approach the issue in the same responsible manner."

Lockerbie will be one of those mysteries like the assassination of President Kennedy that will remain unsolved for a long time - possibly forever Tam Dalyell Former Labour MP

However, the Liberal Democrat justice spokesman Robert Brown MSP also criticised the minister's handling of the issue.

"I took considerable objection to him visiting Megrahi in Greenock Prison," he said.

"I thought that was entirely inappropriate - he's got a semi-judicial role in all of this.

"I fail to see what kind of information he might've been able to get from such a meeting; he's not a doctor, he can't opine on the medical position.

"What on earth was the purpose other than to feed the sort of media frenzy there's been about this matter."

Meanwhile, reacting to the news that the Libyan had applied to abandon his appeal against his conviction, the former Labour MP Tam Dalyell, who has long argued Megrahi's innocence, said: "The last time I saw him was in Greenock Prison.

"He said rather movingly to me that he was desperate to go back to Tripoli to see his family grow up.

"But he wanted to go back as an innocent man.

"If he abandons his appeal, it means that Lockerbie will be one of those mysteries like the assassination of President Kennedy that will remain unsolved for a long time - possibly forever."

Megrahi was convicted of murder in 2001 at a trial held under Scottish law in the Netherlands.

A first appeal against that verdict was rejected the following year.

His second appeal got under way this year but shortly afterwards applications were made for both his transfer to a Libyan jail and release on compassionate grounds.quote>

 

[belfastuniguy 18]

Firstly, before people comment, the British Government have absolutely no say in the release of this man. Justice is devolved to Scotland and as such the Scottish Justice Secretary has the power to decide, not London.

Secondly, I fully oppose it, I think it's utterly scandalous and a complete embrassment for the Scottish Government. I have always held the belief that should you be sentenced to life in prison then you die in prison.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Lockerbie bomber’s release ‘delayed by pressure from Hillary Clinton’

The Scottish government appears to have buckled under pressure from the Obama Administration and abandoned its plans to release the Lockerbie bomber this week.

Senior sources said that there was “no chance” of Abdul Baset Ali al-Megrahi being sent back to Libya on Wednesday as had been expected.

The plan to release the convicted terrorist, who has dropped his appeal against conviction, and return him to his native Libya, was thrown out after the intervention of Hillary Clinton, the US Secretary of State.

It is understood that Alex Salmond, the First Minister, summoned Kenny MacAskill, the Scottish Justice Secretary, to a meeting on Friday amid fears that the decision for a release on compassionate grounds would lead to an international backlash. Al-Megrahi has advanced prostate cancer.

 

Mr MacAskill has now dropped a plan to allow al-Megrahi to leave Scotland in time for the start of Ramadan, around August 22, as Libya had wanted, amid concerns that he would receive a hero’s welcome.

A spokesman for the Scottish Government said that a decision would be made on al-Megrahi’s application for compassionate release before the end of the month. He denied that the timetable had slipped as a result of US pressure. The spokesman added: “We have always been aware of the American viewpoint.”

The latest situation was criticised by leading Scottish QCs. Paul McBride, QC, who acts as an adviser to the Conservative Party, said: “In America if you murder someone you go to jail and die there if necessary. Why should we let this man out, particularly now that he has dropped his appeal, therefore acknowledging he is a mass murderer?”

He added: “This is now beyond shambolic. Kenny MacAskill has not told us what he plans to do. There have been all sorts of different scenarios and this is all about seeing which one attracts the most favourable reaction. This is not about a brave man making a bold decision; it is about Kenny MacAskill trying to get the best publicity for himself.”

That criticism was echoed by Gordon Jackson, QC, a former Labour MSP. “There appears to be total panic and dither,” he said.

“There is a sense of no firm grip on the situation and they are starting to look a bit silly. One day one thing is happening and the next day something else is happening. They are letting the situation drift.

“I cannot see what information they will have next week that they don’t have this week. I am assuming there are other pressures on Kenny MacAskill.”

Al-Megrahi’s decision to withdraw his appeal led to speculation that a deal had been struck to allow his release from Greenock prison in return for the potentially embarrassing proceedings to be halted. The appeal, which could have continued after his death, is expected to be formally dropped in court tomorrow.

Jim Swire, whose daughter Flora was among the 271 people killed in the 1988 Lockerbie bombing, is considering taking legal action against the Crown Office, which is responsible for prosecutions in Scotland.

He believes that al-Megrahi is innocent and wants to use human rights legislation to sue the Crown Office for denying him the chance to discover who was responsible for his daughter’s death.

Dr Swire has written to Mr MacAskill telling him that he might also try to “seek annulment of the findings of the Lockerbie fatal accident inquiry on grounds of withholding of evidence and then seek a new inquiry or legitimate equivalent in its place”.

The Scottish Government is understood to want a public inquiry after al-Megrahi has been sent back to Libya and his appeal has been officially dropped.

Al-Megrahi’s medical condition is believed to be deteriorating and he is now receiving palliative care. A spokeswoman for the Scottish Prison Service said inmates in the final stages of cancer were moved to hospital when they could no longer be treated in jail.quote>

 

[Aontan 0]

 compassionate grounds quote>

 

Like the same compassion he showed for the 270 people killed in the bombing?

No, let him die behind bars. Though even that's too good for him.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: Aontan

 compassionate grounds quote>

 

Like the same compassion he showed for the 270 people killed in the bombing?

No, let him die behind bars. Though even that's too good for him.quote>

This I agree with, though I would have said let him rot in prison, but then again, that might stink up the prison even more than it already is with him just being there.  Scum like this don't deserve any compassion or mercy.  I say just put a bullet in his head and be done with it, but that's the easy way out.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I say just put a bullet in his head and be done with it, but that's the easy way out.quote>

Yes it is the easy way out and it also makes us no better than those like them that kill.

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

I say just put a bullet in his head and be done with it, but that's the easy way out.quote>

Yes it is the easy way out and it also makes us no better than those like them that kill.

quote>

Spare me the speech.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Well apologies for having a sense of civilised morality.

What he did was horrific and he deserves to die in prison, but executing him is no better. Then again, the event occurred over British territory and thankfully we do not have the death penalty, thus the issue is a non-issue.

[mayor_brando 8]

Originally posted by: blade2k5

Scum like this don't deserve any compassion or mercy.  I say just put a bullet in his head and be done with it, but that's the easy way out.quote>

I agree, or maybe they should just take him off treatment for his cancer and leave him in a cell, alone, for a few days.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

He effectively gave a death sentence to 270 people who's families never got to say goodbye to the victims. So why should he be released after JUST 8 YEARS due to the fact he is terminal and wants to spend his last moments with his family? The victims never got to spend their last moments with their family.

He should rot in hell. 270 counts of murder doesn't deserve 8 years jail.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I'm not defending him btw.......just explaining why the situation has come about. I also would rather he die in prison.

So why should he be released after JUST 8 YEARS due to the fact he is terminal and wants to spend his last moments with his family?quote>

Under British Law, you can be released for compassionate reasons if you are close to death The most recent case was that a few weeks ago of Ronnie Biggs, the Great Train Robber. He was released from prison to go and die in hospital.

[Easy Bakes 253]

The kind of thing goes on  every were.

This story is an example.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-squeaky-fromme,0,4847562.story

We release Presidental assassins.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: ROFLyoshi

He should rot in hell.quote>

I hear they've been quite burdened by the large crowds headed there. He's going to have to wait in a pretty long line to do that.

(If you catch the reference, you're awesome)

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

Well apologies for having a sense of civilised morality.

What he did was horrific and he deserves to die in prison, but executing him is no better. Then again, the event occurred over British territory and thankfully we do not have the death penalty, thus the issue is a non-issue.quote>

Sorry, didn't mean to snap like that.  I guess what I meant to say was when I was younger 20 years ago when this tragedy happened, a bullet in the head would have been my immediate response.  I don't feel that way anymore.  I've gotten a wee-bit more vindictive over the past 20 years concerning these types of crimes.  So my response now is the longer they have to suffer for the rest of their lives in a dank, foul smelling prison cell, the better.

[belfastuniguy 18]

That's alright.

I agree with rotting in prison. I do wish prisons weren't so comfortable though. That really annoys me, bit of Victorian prison austerity for the worse crimes is what I'd like to see. None of this TV, gym or recreational rubbish.

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

That's alright.

I agree with rotting in prison. I do wish prisons weren't so comfortable though. That really annoys me, bit of Victorian prison austerity for the worse crimes in what I'd like to see. None of this TV, gym or 'funtime' rubbish.quote>

Agreed  You know, I may be an American, but my bloodline is English, Scottish, Irish and Scandinavian.  Not sure if that is a good mixture

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

what you all fail to realize here is that he was convicted on very dubious grounds. Perhaps we was invloved, but the conensus amoung the scottish victims' families seems to be that he was only a minor player and was only a convicted as a scapegoat. 

Many of the British families, deeply suspicious about the official version of events, were sympathetic to Megrahi's return to Libya on compassionate grounds because of his advanced cancer.

...

"Pamela Dix, from UK Families Flight 103, whose brother Peter was killed, said she supported an appeal. "Even if [Megrahi] is [responsible] he is only a very small cog in the whole chain. We are still not aware of why the bombing was carried out, who else did it as co-conspirators, and why."

quote>

Whilst American victims' families tend to see Megrahi as entirely guilty

Susan Cohen, from New Jersey, whose daughter Theodora was one of 35 Syracuse University students on Pan Am flight 103, which was blown up over Scotland in 1988, said: "Any letting out of Megrahi would be a disgrace. It makes me sick, and if there is a compassionate release then I think that is vile."

She added: "It just shows that the power of oil money counts for more than justice. There have been so many attempts to let him off. It has to do with money and power and giving Gaddafi what he wants. My feelings, as a victim, apparently count for nothing."

quote>

From Guardian.co.uk

What is worst about this situation, in my opinion, is not that Megrahi might be released but that his appeal has been dropped becuase he thinks this will help him get released. The appeal might have brought out more evidence, either to show that Megrahi was not primarily responsible or to reinforced the orginal conviction, helping the famillies not satisfied by the initial coviction to see justice done.

So I while i entirely agree that someone who has murdered 270 people should serve a full life sentence, this case isn't entirely so clear-cut.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

I'm not defending him btw.......just explaining why the situation has come about. I also would rather he die in prison.

So why should he be released after JUST 8 YEARS due to the fact he is terminal and wants to spend his last moments with his family?quote>

Under British Law, you can be released for compassionate reasons if you are close to death The most recent case was that a few weeks ago of Ronnie Biggs, the Great Train Robber. He was released from prison to go and die in hospital.quote>

Yes, but Ronnie Biggs never killed anyone, he stole millions of pounds. This guy has killed people so I hardly see it fair that he can be released on 'compassionate grounds'. Victims aren't being given enough justice and criminals are being given too many rights.

It's a stupid law.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

I think there are some points that need clearing up.

1st).         The Scottish have always had their own legal system, it's not British Law as some people are saying. The Scottish law has three possible verdicts, Innocent, Guilty and Not Proven. I'm guessing here, but I think that perhaps he would have received the third verdict in Scotland with a jury.

2nd).        The trial this man had was an illegal stitch-up. There wasn't a jury, as required by both Scottish and  American laws. Also evidence was withheld. Even Dr. Swire a representative of the American families have said that he has doubts about this mans guilt.  The trail was held in another country to avoid having to comply with relevant laws about trials by jury.

3rd).         This man has always pleaded not guilty.

4th).          Life Imprisonment generally has a different meaning in Britain to the USA. Most people convicted of life imprisonment can be released on license after about 10 years in Britain, subject to certain conditions being met.

Wether or not this man is guilty, none of us know, his appeal may have brought up additional evidence, but it would have taken at least two years. This is why he has chosen to drop it, as he isn't expecting to be alive in two years time.

Many British people have doubts about the trial and the conviction, not least because there have been some pretty major miscarriages of justice in the past, and the way this trial was handled didn't allow justice to be seen to be done.

Also a part of the christian religion is about forgiveness, wether he is guilty or not, condsidering he is dying could we not see  it in our hearts to forgive.

[Kryptowhite 9]

And thats why scotland and england should set up secret prisons in foreign countries where they send the really bad criminals so they don't have to supply them basic rights.

Tell me again, whose idea it was that we should give basic rights and comfortable living space to prisoners who have killed 10, 20, 100, 200, people?

[sneakeypete 16]

Because it starts you on a slipperly slope. how much is too much? 1? 2? only over 10? so someone who killed 9 people is ok to go to prison, but someone who killed 10 will be shot? and maybe then we should move it to other crimes apart from murder aswell.. now which ones?

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

Originally posted by: Kryptowhite

And thats why scotland and england should set up secret prisons in foreign countries where they send the really bad criminals so they don't have to supply them basic rights.

quote>

Whys that? Becuase he lauched an appeal, becuase he continues to plead not guilty, becuase there are serious doubts about the ligitmacy of the trial? Please enlighten me.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Originally posted by: Kryptowhite

And thats why scotland and england should set up secret prisons in foreign countries where they send the really bad criminals so they don't have to supply them basic rights.

Tell me again, whose idea it was that we should give basic rights and comfortable living space to prisoners who have killed 10, 20, 100, 200, people?quote>

Sorry, but the United Kingdom and all of its constituent countries respect the rule of law and human rights. We have one of the oldest and fairest legal systems in the world, one which has been copied and one which has influenced systems in countries across the globe.

I don't see that happening any-time soon, we'll leave that to other nations that hold human rights with less respect.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Also a part of the christian religion is about forgiveness, wether he is guilty or not, condsidering he is dying could we not see it in our hearts to forgive.quote>

I'm not a Christian, so I'm not bound by anything to forgive anyone.

Yes, but Ronnie Biggs never killed anyone, he stole millions of pounds. This guy has killed people so I hardly see it fair that he can be released on 'compassionate grounds'. Victims aren't being given enough justice and criminals are being given too many rights.

It's a stupid law.quote>

Correct, but the law exists for everyone, it's not a pick-and-mix law.

You may see it as stupid, and that's your opinion. However, his fate is for the Scottish Justice Secretary to decide upon.

What is worst about this situation, in my opinion, is not that Megrahi might be released but that his appeal has been dropped becuase he thinks this will help him get released. The appeal might have brought out more evidence, either to show that Megrahi was not primarily responsible or to reinforced the orginal conviction, helping the famillies not satisfied by the initial coviction to see justice done.quote>

I agree, the case was rather dubious and doubts do exists. I personally would have liked to have seen the second appeal go forward so more of the facts could come out.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: TheQuiltedLlama

Originally posted by: Kryptowhite

And thats why scotland and england should set up secret prisons in foreign countries where they send the really bad criminals so they don't have to supply them basic rights.

quote>

Whys that? Becuase he lauched an appeal, becuase he continues to plead not guilty, becuase there are serious doubts about the ligitmacy of the trial? Please enlighten me.

quote>

Because justice cannot be rendered unless we remove all checks and balances in the legal system and relinquish it to the most vile instincts of man.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Originally posted by: Kryptowhite

And thats why scotland and england should set up secret prisons in foreign countries where they send the really bad criminals so they don't have to supply them basic rights.

Tell me again, whose idea it was that we should give basic rights and comfortable living space to prisoners who have killed 10, 20, 100, 200, people?quote>

 

What about when they send you to that secret prison so as to deny your rights. We in Britain don't do that. Incidently Scotland and England are spelt with capitals.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Decision reached on bomber's fate

Megrahi is the only person to be convicted over the bombing Read Brian Taylor's blog

A decision has been reached which could see the Lockerbie bomber freed or transferred to jail in Libya.

The Scottish justice secretary has said he will announce the fate of Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi on Thursday afternoon.

Megrahi, 57, is dying from terminal prostate cancer. The BBC revealed last week that Megrahi was likely to be released on compassionate grounds.

He is serving at least 27 years in jail after his conviction for the Pan Am bomb in 1988, which killed 270 people.

Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill said he had informed families and other interested parties that he had reached his decision on the applications for prisoner transfer and compassionate release.

He will announce his decision on Thursday at 1300 BST at the Scottish Government's ministerial headquarters in Edinburgh.

Hillary Clinton: ''We think it is very much against the wishes of the family members''

It is thought preparations for Mr Megrahi's possible release were being made in time for him to be home with his family in Libya by Ramadan, which starts on Friday.

Intense pressure on the justice secretary and the Scottish Government has been mounting, including interventions from the White House.

On Wednesday, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton reiterated her opposition to the possible release of Megrahi.

She said it would be "absolutely wrong".

"I knew a lot of these families. I talked with them about what a horror they experienced," Mrs Clinton said.

Earlier this week, a letter from seven US senators including Edward Kennedy and John Kerry urged Mr MacAskill to keep Megrahi behind bars.

A Scottish Government spokesman said: "We have a strong justice system in Scotland and people can be assured that the justice secretary's decisions have been reached on the basis of clear evidence and on no other factors."

Appeal dropped

Chancellor Alistair Darling, standing in for the prime minister while Gordon Brown is on holiday, said it was a decision for the Scottish Government.

On Tuesday, judges at the High Court in Edinburgh who accepted Megrahi's application to drop his appeal were told Megrahi's health had recently worsened very considerably.

By dropping his appeal, Megrahi has removed one potential obstacle to his transfer to a jail in his homeland.

However, a Crown appeal against the length of his sentence is still ongoing.

Megrahi has recently been serving his sentence at HMP Greenock, in the west of Scotland, after being convicted of the bombing under Scots law at a specially convened court in the Netherlands in 2001.quote>

[Aontan 0]

Well, he's being released:

Lockerbie bomber released on compassionate grounds

Thu, Aug 20, 2009

Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi, who has terminal cancer, is to be freed on compassionate grounds, Scottish justice secretary Kenny MacAskill said today.

Megrahi (57) had been sentenced to life imprisonment for the 1988 bombing of an airliner over Lockerbie that killed 270 people, the majority of them Americans.

He was convicted in 2001 of the murder of all 259 people on board a Pan Am Boeing 747 and 11 killed on the ground when the aircraft exploded in mid-air above the Scottish town of Lockerbie.

The Scottish government had come under pressure from Washington to keep the Libyan national in jail, but Mr MacAskill has the power to free him early via a prisoner transfer deal or on compassionate grounds.

The United States and the relatives of many of the 189 American victims oppose Megrahi's early release and say he should serve his full life sentence in prison.

"It is absolutely wrong to release someone who has been imprisoned based on the evidence about his involvement in such a horrendous crime," US secretary of state Hillary Clinton told reporters.

But the families of many of the Britons killed in the bombing believe he should be allowed to go home to die. Some also say the evidence presented at his trial was not strong enough to find him guilty.

The Megrahi case has become a millstone for the Scottish government as it balances a series of competing interests, among them the fact that British oil companies are trying to do more business in Libya and hope Megrahi's release might open doors.

Britain's Scottish secretary Jim Murphy appeared to rebuke the government in Edinburgh for failing to make an announcement on Megrahi a week after media reports said he would be freed.

"They should get on and make the decision because it is dragging on and it is becoming a little bit embarrassing," Mr Murphy said.

A Scottish government spokesman said yesterday: "We have a strong justice system in Scotland and people can be assured that the justice secretary's decisions have been reached on the basis of clear evidence and on no other factors."

The Times newspaper said Libyan leader Muammar Gadafy would send his private jet to Scotland if Megrahi was released and fly him home in time for the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Megrahi's wife Aisha al-Megrahi was quoted in the Times as saying her husband "doesn't have any idea if he will or will not be released".

"I spoke to him today (Wednesday) but he did not know when he will be released," she said in a telephone interview with the newspaper from her home in Tripoli.

Mr MacAskill has been been considering two requests from Megrahi to be released early, on compassionate grounds or under a prisoner transfer agreement between Britain and Libya.

Megrahi can be transferred only when all active criminal proceedings have ended. While Scotland's High Court accepted his request to drop his second appeal on Tuesday, the process has yet to be finalised. A further hearing is due in three weeks.

Scotland's judicial authorities must also drop their own appeal against Megrahi's original sentence, which they saw as too lenient.

© 2009 irishtimes.com

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[belfastuniguy 18]

Lockerbie bomber returns to Libya

Megrahi, seen in the white, boarded a flight at Glasgow 'A convenient scapegoat?' Bomber release: What now? Grounds for compassionate release

The Lockerbie bomber has left Scotland on board a plane bound for Libya after being freed from prison on compassionate grounds.

Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi, 57, was jailed in 2001 for the atrocity which claimed 270 lives in 1988.

The decision to release Megrahi, who has terminal prostate cancer, was made by the Scottish Government.

The White House said it "deeply regretted" the decision and some of the US victims' families reacted angrily.

A police convoy left Greenock Prison, where Megrahi was serving his sentence, more than an hour after the announcement of his release was made.

He was taken to Glasgow Airport to board the flight to Tripoli, which took off shortly before 1530 BST.

The government said it had consulted widely before Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill made his decision on applications for Megrahi's compassionate release or his transfer to a Libyan jail.

He told a media conference on Thursday that he had rejected the application for a prisoner transfer.

However, after taking medical advice it was expected that three months was a "reasonable estimate" of the time Megrahi had left to live.

Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill announces the release of Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi

He ruled out the option of the Libyan being allowed to live in Scotland on security grounds.

And he stressed that he accepted the conviction and sentence which had been handed to Megrahi.

However, Mr Macaskill said Scots defined themselves by their humanity.

"Mr al-Megrahi did not show his victims any comfort or compassion. They were not allowed to return to the bosom of their families to see out their lives, let alone their dying days. No compassion was shown by him to them.

Click here to see a map of Megrahi's role

"But that alone is not a reason for us to deny compassion to him and his family in his final days."

Mr MacAskill continued: "Our justice system demands that judgement be imposed, but compassion be available.

"For these reasons and these reasons alone, it is my decision that Mr Mr Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al-Megrahi, convicted in 2001 for the Lockerbie bombing, now terminally ill with prostate cancer, be released on compassionate grounds and be allowed to return to Libya to die."

Mr MacAskill had been under intense pressure from the US government to keep Megrahi behind bars, with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton saying his release would be "absolutely wrong".

Reaction: Lockerbie bomber freed

"Compassion and mercy are about upholding the beliefs the we seek to live by, remaining true to our values as a people - no matter the severity of the provocation or the atrocity perpetrated."

Some 189 Americans were among those who died in the airliner explosion.

However, the Scottish Government insisted the decision had been reached "on the basis of clear evidence and on no other factors".

Reacting to the decision, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said in a statement: "The United States deeply regrets the decision by the Scottish Executive to release Abdel Basset Mohamed al-Megrahi.

"As we have expressed repeatedly to officials of the government of the United Kingdom and to Scottish authorities, we continue to believe that Megrahi should serve out his sentence in Scotland.

The families of American victims of the Lockerbie bombing reacted angrily to the news.

Kara Weipz, of Mt Laurel, New Jersey, who lost her 20-year-old brother Richard Monetti, said: "I don't understand how the Scots can show compassion. It is an utter insult and utterly disgusting.

"It is horrible. I don't show compassion for someone who showed no remorse."

New York state resident Paul Halsch, whose 31-year-old wife was killed, said of Mr MacAskill's decision: "I'm totally against it. He murdered 270 people.

Have Your Say

I am ashamed to be Scottish today. Where is the justice for the victims?

Ross MacDonald, Edinburgh

Send us your comment

"This might sound crude or blunt, but I want him returned from Scotland the same way my wife Lorraine was and that would be in a box."

Megrahi was convicted of murder in January 2001 at a trial held under Scottish law in the Netherlands.

A first appeal against that verdict was rejected the following year.

However, in 2007 the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission granted him a second appeal.

It subsequently emerged he was suffering from terminal cancer but a bid to have him granted bail was refused.

His second appeal got under way this year but shortly afterwards applications were made for both his transfer to a Libyan jail and release on compassionate grounds.

Earlier this week the High Court in Edinburgh allowed Megrahi's application to drop his second appeal.

LOCATIONS WHICH SHAPED MEGRAHI'S TRIAL   1. Tripoli, capital of Libya. Megrahi was born here on 1 April 1952, and worked - according to the FBI - for Libyan intelligence services.   2. Malta. Megrahi's day job, as security chief for Libyan Arab Airlines, took him to their office on the island. From there he would travel to Zurich. The bomb began its journey here in December 1988.   3. Zurich, Switzerland. The bomb's timing device was made and purchased here.   4. Frankfurt, Germany. On arrival, a suitcase later found to have contained the bomb was transferred from an Air Malta jet to a flight bound for London Heathrow.   5. London's Heathrow Airport. Pan Am flight PA 103 took off from Heathrow at 1825 GMT on Wednesday, 21 December 1988.   6. Lockerbie, Scotland. The bomb on Flight PA 103 exploded above the Scottish village at 1902 GMT.   7. Camp Zeist, Netherlands. Here, in a landmark trial, Scottish judges convicted Megrahi in 2001.   8. HMP Barlinnie. Megrahi served the first part of his sentence in this Scottish prison.   9. HMP Greenock. Megrahi was transferred from Barlinnie to Greenock in 2005.

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