A serious issue with cars.gov

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Came across this in my wanderings, just try to tell me it's actually a good thing:

cars.gov has a dealer section, which carries this in its click on 'to agree' button:

and the Glenn Beck video; like him or not he is at least publicizing this:

Questions/comments/discussion?

[Jumpthefence 74]

Gradual slide into socialism? Naw, what makes me think that?

Now imagine the government watching over your computer!

Oh, wait, I have a feeling that's already happening.

[JanYpe 17]

These terms of service were not on the cars.gov site consumers use, but on a login page for dealers who are registered/ have a contract with this program. Beck even says so in that pathetic video: "the dealer goes to cars.gov". This hasn't got the first thing to do with the 'socialist' government taking over your computer. It's a poorly written EULA, that reminds the people who are part of the program that transactions like these are quite obviously subject to inspection. Congratulations, you just got suckered by the Fox news paranoia machine.

And Glen Beck? I mean, really? Bloody hell man, have some self-respect.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

So trusting, JanYpe. Just a bad EULA? It's still enforceable in court, as written. How much does that say about the people involved in the planning and implementation, if that's all it is?

Sorry, but this sets a very bad precedent in an era of Patriot Acts and Algore's 'Clipper Chip'. Regardless of political party, they (Federal authorities) have been looking for ways into personal computers for decades. We have far too many outlets for encroachment on our Constitutional rights, in our gov't. The incrementalism is surprisingly plain.

In light of this story, I'll put this out there, for the American crowd:

Obama's healthcare plan is planned to feature an online component.

What you should have just felt was a chill down your spine.

[SockoJr53 51]

Anyone else think Glenn Beck looks exactly like Porky the Pig?

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

So trusting, JanYpe. Just a bad EULA? It's still enforceable in court, as written. How much does that say about the people involved in the planning and implementation, if that's all it is?

Sorry, but this sets a very bad precedent in an era of Patriot Acts and Algore's 'Clipper Chip'. Regardless of political party, they (Federal authorities) have been looking for ways into personal computers for decades. We have far too many outlets for encroachment on our Constitutional rights, in our gov't. The incrementalism is surprisingly plain.

In light of this story, I'll put this out there, for the American crowd:

Obama's healthcare plan is planned to feature an online component.

What you should have just felt was a chill down your spine.

quote>

Chill down my spine? All I had was gales of laughter at how silly this "issue" is. After 10 seconds of googling and another 10 of basic thought, it became quite obvious that this is a total fabrication from the darling folks at Fox. They really are determined to drag the US political discourse to new lows, not that it wasn't a ridiculous wasteland before.

[Legosim 14]

Originally posted by: SockoJr53

Anyone else think Glenn Beck looks exactly like Porky the Pig?quote>

Get off the internet you liberal pinhead!!!!!!!!!!   just kidding

he sure does

[Legosim 14]

It wouldnt suprise me, and i think the cash for clunkers needed more to it, there should be an actual problem with your car, like my truck the A/C went out, i dont have the money even to get my $3500 to get a new truck. if I would get that for a 2000 s 10, there are perfectly good used cars that you know you can get more for it, and someone that cant afford a new car like me would be happy to have a used one, and this is going to effect alot of car mechanics, etc. Also i dont know where else but all i see is people driving off in their used car at the dealers, this is yet another WASTE!

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: JanYpe

These terms of service were not on the cars.gov site consumers use, but on a login page for dealers who are registered/ have a contract with this program. quote>

Even so, I fail to understand where the justification for "your computer is government property" comes from, even if it only applies to dealers.

It's a poorly written EULA, that reminds the people who are part of the program that transactions like these are quite obviously subject to inspection.quote>

Sorry, no sale. There's way too much of a difference between "we can monitor the acrivities of your computer" and "we own your computer" for someone to mean one and accidentally say the other. The main intent no doubt is to scrutinize the transactions, but they obviously quite intentionally gave themselves way more broad priviliges than that so that they could do more if they saw fit to.

Look, this isn't just some half baked conspiracy theory here. It's right there in front of you, you can read it just as well as all of us. Don't try and tell me it doesn't say what it says.

And Glen Beck? I mean, really? Bloody hell man, have some self-respect.quote>

What, pray tell, is wrong with Glen Beck?

Well, besides his nutty antics.

[Explodingsims 3]

Well, I'd be tempted to be scared if any other news outlets would cover this.

Now, if they were trying to say "we reserve the right to monitor transactions", then someone screwed up royal.

Also, you could make a pretty good drinking game off when Glen says a variation of Jesus Christ.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: Duke87

Originally posted by: JanYpe

These terms of service were not on the cars.gov site consumers use, but on a login page for dealers who are registered/ have a contract with this program. quote>

Even so, I fail to understand where the justification for "your computer is government property" comes from, even if it only applies to dealers.

It's a poorly written EULA, that reminds the people who are part of the program that transactions like these are quite obviously subject to inspection.quote>

Sorry, no sale. There's way too much of a difference between "we can monitor the acrivities of your computer" and "we own your computer" for someone to mean one and accidentally say the other. The main intent no doubt is to scrutinize the transactions, but they obviously quite intentionally gave themselves way more broad priviliges than that so that they could do more if they saw fit to.

Look, this isn't just some half baked conspiracy theory here. It's right there in front of you, you can read it just as well as all of us. Don't try and tell me it doesn't say what it says.

And Glen Beck? I mean, really? Bloody hell man, have some self-respect.quote>

What, pray tell, is wrong with Glen Beck?

Well, besides his nutty antics.

quote>

I say it when it's due: thanks Duke.

I have to add that I don't watch GB, or any host-centered news show like Nancy Grace, except for Lou Dobbs. He rocks. The rest annoy the living crap out of me. I came upon this story on another site. When I turn on news, I want news... not shrill, shrieking, overkill of a carefully chosen subject. Not that I differ with Beck on a great number of things, I'm just done with personality-driven faux newscasts of every stripe.

There is a reason I addressed the Americans here, actually several. A) Those in other countries often do not share our overall mindset as a nation, nor B) our commitment to individual rights (albeit eroding), and abhorrence to government interference of them.

Also, C) It's not their freedoms or tax dollars in play, they have no stake in the discussion in a real sense, and D) JanYpe's political perspective consistently falls well outside the range of mainstream American political opinion. Not meant as a criticism or dis, but rather recognizing the objectively obvious. It would be expected, considering geographic and cultural differences. I doubt anyone would sincerely disagree.

[Jumpthefence 74]

I'm simply scared by this Cash for Clunkers program.

We're not going to stop the federal deficit from going up at this rate.

People are buying foreign cars with the money they get; it's not stimulating our economy.

And now they're tracking our computers. The dealer's computers, at least.

Or they have a really bad legal documents writer.

Which also worries me in a number of ways.

It's a loss-loss!

And the whole program is a loss-loss-loss-loss-etc!

In other news, the sky is blue and Simcity is fun.

Go figure.

[mayor_brando 8]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

and the Glenn Beck video; like him or not he is at least publicizing thisquote>

Fox is sort of a right-wing news station, and Glenn Beck, well, he is a doofus, and isn't an unimpeachable source. So what do you expect from them except for tales of the "evil government". Seriously, that is pathetic.

In light of this story, I'll put this out there, for the American crowd:

Obama's healthcare plan is planned to feature an online component.

What you should have just felt was a chill down your spine.quote>

Are you serious? How the heck am I supposed to be scared about that? You make this sound like the end of the world, which it isn't.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: mayor_brando

Are you serious? How the heck am I supposed to be scared about that? You make this sound like the end of the world, which it isn't.quote>

Enjoy your complacency. Nuclear war, climate change, a corrupt government's dubious site... none of these are the end of the world,. Neither is pissing away basic American rights.

Edit: This story keeps reminding me of  "How you catch wild pigs" (go ahead and complain, it's a very biased website).

Everywhere I find this story, there's those who like their shiny new fence and free corn. They can't understand why so many of us resist. At some point, they're just going to have to feel the grip of tyranny to get the message. Too bad those of us who know better will also have to pay the same price as a vacuous, self-possessed, and easily placated population.

[warrior 169]

I watched the video, the website shown on the laptop doesn't look exactly like the actual cars.gov site. That is unless the site appears differently to people in the US (in in the UK). Also the text the guy read didn't appear on the screen. Also it's possible there's some technical problem like that text should have been somewhere else on the website where only people using Federal Computers are meant to access. I've watched other videos of him and thought well he's bit strange to say the rock bottom least.

You(at least this Glen guy) seem to think your government is evil? Go live in a different country, that isn't lucky enough to have a government that isn't corrupt(or even have a government). Also it's your choice to click the accept button, there aren't forcing you hand to click the mouse button. (It's like someone asking "Can I read all you documents, papers and letters you own?" Your obviously going to say no)

Anyway unless someone physically saw you press the button, then they can't prove it was you at that computer.

Jonathan

[mayor_brando 8]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

Originally posted by: mayor_brando

Are you serious? How the heck am I supposed to be scared about that? You make this sound like the end of the world, which it isn't.quote>

Enjoy your complacency. Nuclear war, climate change, a corrupt government's dubious site... none of these are the end of the world,. Neither is pissing away basic American rights.quote>

When did I say anything about nuclear war, climate change, or corrupt government? Anyway, just because an ex disc-jockey claims that the government is snooping around in our computers, doesn't mean it's true.

Everywhere I find this story, there's those who like their shiny new fence and free corn. They can't understand why so many of us resist. At some point, they're just going to have to feel the grip of tyranny to get the message. Too bad those of us who know better will also have to pay the same price as a vacuous, self-possessed, and easily placated population.quote>

Like I said above

[LivingInThePast 364]

I heard that the dealer disables the engine and basically ruins a perfectly good car, which is bad.

I'm not sure about the "government owns your computer" thing as the screen capture runs contradictory to DOT's privacy statement (bottom of the page)

[Ntq€310 1]

Hmm. Just wonderful, now are government is too cheap to buy it's own computers, and has to take them through a disclaimer. Its just wonderful when we have things becoming federal property!

But on to Fox News. You either love it or hate it. I lean more towards the right, and I enjoy watching it. Glenn Beck is crazy, but he's also funny and frankly, appears much more alive than other people on the news. You love him or hate him. Just as with Fox News in general, it leans right, and for people who like that, it's great, for people who are on the left, well not so much.

But, it's frankly pathetic when the only thing people can say about something is that 'oh it came from here, that source sucks!'. I like the phrase, debunk whats been said, not who said it. Which besides, all news sources are biased in someway, some more than others, and we would have no news if the only thing we could say is 'they are biased, so everything they say is a lie'

[mayor_brando 8]

Originally posted by: Ntq$310

But, it's frankly pathetic when the only thing people can say about something is that 'oh it came from here, that source sucks!'. I like the phrase, debunk whats been said, not who said it. Which besides, all news sources are biased in someway, some more than others, and we would have no news if the only thing we could say is 'they are biased, so everything they say is a lie'quote>

True, we shouldn't critize a media network because they don't agree with us. But I would like some more proof then just a quote of what it supposedly says from the show of a right-wing talking head and former disc-jockey. And that phrase doesn't always hold true. Say you're source is a psychotic killer, like Charles Manson.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: mayor_brando

 just because an ex disc-jockey claims that the government is snooping around in our computers, doesn't mean it's true.quote>

Well, we can't prove that they are, it's true. Then again, what reassurance do we have that they aren't? Especially when right there, plain as day, it says that they can. And if they can, sooner or later, to some degree, they will.

Originally posted by: LivingInThePast

I heard that the dealer disables the engine and basically ruins a perfectly good car, which is bad.quote>

Define "perfectly good car". Maybe it runs, but in order to be eligiible for this program, the car in question must average 18 MPG or less, and you must buy a car that averages at least 3 MPG more to get $3500 or a car that averages at least 10 MPG more to get $4500. The idea is to retire and destroy gas guzzlers and replace them with more fuel-efficient cars. It's for the environment as well as the economy. It's also thus a step towards reducing dependence on middle eastern oil, which is another plus.

Originally posted by: Ntq$310

But on to Fox News. You either love it or hate it. I lean more towards the right, and I enjoy watching it. Glenn Beck is crazy, but he's also funny and frankly, appears much more alive than other people on the news. You love him or hate him. Just as with Fox News in general, it leans right, and for people who like that, it's great, for people who are on the left, well not so much.quote>

But... but...

Fox News is Fair and Balanced^TM!

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

So trusting, JanYpe. Just a bad EULA? It's still enforceable in court, as written.quote>

Yes, surprisingly as it is, an American court has never turned down an EULA (or in indeed any clause you've pressed "agree" below). But I guess that's to be expected, seeing as the court system is an integral part of the executive, and that they're never using reason.

Well, anyway, all I ever got to see was this log in notice:

You are accessing a U.S. Government information system. This information system,

including all related equipment, networks, and network devices, is provided for U.S.

Government-authorized use only. Unauthorized or improper use of this system is prohibited,

and may result in civil and criminal penalties, or administrative disciplinary action.

The communications and data stored or transiting this system may be, for any lawful

Government purpose, monitored, recorded, and subject to audit or investigation.

By using this system, you understand and consent to such terms.quote>

Maybe they're not telling you that they reserve the right to send your computer to the Pakistani Intelligence Service for some sleep deprivation and waterboarding before you've logged in. 

[Ntq€310 1]

Originally posted by: Duke87

But... but...

Fox News is Fair and Balanced^TM!

quote>

There about as good as The Place for PoliticsTM

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

Came across this in my wanderings, just try to tell me it's actually a good thing:

cars.gov has a dealer section, which carries this in its click on 'to agree' button:

and the Glenn Beck video; like him or not he is at least publicizing this:

Questions/comments/discussion?

quote>

I do on occassion watch Glenn Beck, and I happen to have seen the show this was on. He used this tip, which was provided by a fan, to establish what he called a "constitutional watchdogs" group or something like that. Well, that is just typical Glenn Beck, but moving on to the actual agreement.

For one moment, let's give Beck the benefit of the doubt here. From what I saw, it said, in effect, that it was federal property while logged on to the CARS system. My interpretation of that would be that it ceases to be federal property when logged off of the system. But I still believe it is somewhat chilling to have anyone's computer be federal property for any length of time (and not just because I have 15 degree air blowing into my house).

Even with this in light, however, I do not believe that this is a conspiracy to hijack the computers of the car dealers. It was probably written by some "nameless, faceless" bureaucrat who didn't fully understand the ramifications of the agreement, when he figured out the only way to get the relevant information is for it to be a federal computer for a time.

Well, anyway, all I ever got to see was this log in notice:

You are accessing a U.S. Government information system. This information system,

including all related equipment, networks, and network devices, is provided for U.S.

Government-authorized use only. Unauthorized or improper use of this system is prohibited,

and may result in civil and criminal penalties, or administrative disciplinary action.

The communications and data stored or transiting this system may be, for any lawful

Government purpose, monitored, recorded, and subject to audit or investigation.

By using this system, you understand and consent to such terms.

quote>

Maybe they're not telling you that they reserve the right to send your computer to the Pakistani Intelligence Service for some sleep deprivation and waterboarding before you've logged in. quote>

Are you a car dealer? Because only car dealers can access that part of the site.

Also, you don't have to be sent to Pakistan to be tortured... they do it to people 100 miles off the Florida coast...

Everywhere I find this story, there's those who like their shiny new fence and free corn. They can't understand why so many of us resist. At some point, they're just going to have to feel the grip of tyranny to get the message.quote>

As I have said many times, totalitarians like totalitarian regimes... until the powers come down upon them. This is always the case. Adolf Hitler may have liked the death camps, but would he be in favor of them if Himmler said he would be sent to one tomorrow? No. This is just an example.

I am not worried about the CARS system, I am more worried about HR 3200, which will create a totalitarian public option, and put a stranglehold on the insurance companies, and penalize those who don't want insurance. Private options go bankrupt because of the stranglehold, and that leaves the totalitarian public option.

Hmm, whatever happened to the Weiner amendment....

[fukuda 351]

But on to Fox News. You either love it or hate it.quote>

I love it, it always provides good comic relief

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Interesting how no one mentions MSNBC, even though they're just as bad if not worse. And CNN was said to stand for Clinton News Network. Fox just must be the worst, right?

I smell a real double standard, or does everyone just assume the news media is going to be leftist-leaning, making Fox stick out?

[Jumpthefence 74]

Yeah, the Clinton News Network and the National Barack Channel.

That's why they call it the "liberal media".

Conservatives only have two choices; Fox News and Foxnews.com.

And even then all we get is Glenn Beck.

But he's a funny guy. He makes the news fun to watch. Especially when his temper flares.

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Interesting how no one mentions MSNBC, even though they're just as bad if not worse. And CNN was said to stand for Clinton News Network. Fox just must be the worst, right?

I smell a real double standard, or does everyone just assume the news media is going to be leftist-leaning, making Fox stick out?quote>

Well, I believe no one mentioned MSNBC in this thread because Glenn Beck is not on MSNBC (well, excepting Countdown). I view MSNBC and Fox as being relatively equal in bias. One is predominantly conservative or neoconservative, the other is predominately liberal or socialist.

However, I have found that it really varies by the individual program. For instance, Hannity and O'Reilly may be right-wing to the core, but the Fox Report and On the Record are more centrist. On MSNBC, Keith and Rachel are left-wing, but Morning Meeting and Andrea Mitchell Reports are more centrist.

I happen to be a fan of both channels, and combined a person can really get an objective view of what is going on.

CNN, though, is not as biased as either Fox or MSNBC, but I do believe that it on balance leans slightly left of center.

The media itself is not "leftist" (if an objective definition of leftism can be obtained). I have found that the media varies and there are plenty of biases, left, right, and center, and I haven't really noticed any of these three being dominant. So in my opinion to call the media liberal or conservative is merely lamenting that reporters don't put the same spin on stories as you do. Naturally a person "on the right" would percieve a centrist to be on the left of him.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

Interesting how no one mentions MSNBC, even though they're just as bad if not worse. And CNN was said to stand for Clinton News Network. Fox just must be the worst, right?

I smell a real double standard, or does everyone just assume the news media is going to be leftist-leaning, making Fox stick out?

quote>

No double standard. It´s safe to say that pretty much all your major media outlets in one way or another pander to their owner's bias and the lowest common denominator with idiotic stories like `The government is going to own your computer, oh lawd the socialist menace marches on.` But hey, since you guys seem to enjoy it so much, if only to have the occasional masturbatory patriotic rant about nonsense like this, it´s a trend that´s probably not going to end any time soon.

Originally posted by: Ntq$310

Hmm. Just wonderful, now are government is too cheap to buy it's own computers, and has to take them through a disclaimer. Its just wonderful when we have things becoming federal property!

But on to Fox News. You either love it or hate it. I lean more towards the right, and I enjoy watching it. Glenn Beck is crazy, but he's also funny and frankly, appears much more alive than other people on the news. You love him or hate him. Just as with Fox News in general, it leans right, and for people who like that, it's great, for people who are on the left, well not so much.

But, it's frankly pathetic when the only thing people can say about something is that 'oh it came from here, that source sucks!'. I like the phrase, debunk whats been said, not who said it. Which besides, all news sources are biased in someway, some more than others, and we would have no news if the only thing we could say is 'they are biased, so everything they say is a lie'quote>

Except, oops, that's not what anyone has been saying. If you check out the story for yourself, using hightech means like 'Google' and advanced academic skills like 'reading comprehension', it's not too hard to see that the story is based on nothing but deliberate misinterpretation, misrepresentation and fearmongering. You can only lean so far to the right or the left before you fall off the tightrope of fact into the abyss of baseless opinion, like this story illustrates. If this came from any other source. it'd still be an example of poor journalism.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Patricius MaximusAre you a car dealer? Because only car dealers can access that part of the site.quote>

No, I'm not a car dealer. For some reason I can't explain, I actually tried to find this scary messages—as he actually starts the sketch with "don't try this at home", I'm very disappointed that there were actually nothing to try.

I also find it astounding that Kimberly Guilfoyle, the lady who accompanies Mr Beck, is so light on the legal aspect of it and sure of the omnipotence of government, considered that she apparently studied law at the University of San Francisco and EEC law at University of Dublin. I wonder if she is comfortable with her acheivements as deputy district attorney.

Business-wise, this is of course a clever piece. It pays their mortgage. Politically, they're probably more stupid rather than evil, wicked, crazy, frightening people.

I'm glad Jonah Goldberg were there moderate their beliefs.

Also, you don't have to be sent to Pakistan to be tortured... they do it to people 100 miles off the Florida coast...quote>

No, computer files are probably somewhat more protected down there.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa