Demand Cycle Question

[Ignition2k 0]

Hello everyone,

I'm quite impressed by the amount of information that is present on this site!  Unfortunately, I can't seem to answer a demand cycle issue that I've been having based on this information and was hoping some of the (much) more experienced players could perhaps offer insight into resolving this issue.  I apologize up front for the length of this message; I wanted to provide as many details as possible because I'm out of ideas at this point.

Here is some background info first: I have NAM installed and am using the Z traffic controller, and have no real issues with traffic congestion ingame.

I have a central city that started out as a mix of R,C, an I.  As the city progressed, the demand cycle seemed to be working quite well; R$ would pop up, they'd take the I$ and C$ jobs...I plopped down top-notch educational facilities for them and slowly my R$$ population increased, and eventually R$$$ began showing up.  Cs$$/Cs$$$ + Co$$/Co$$$ began showing up appropriately, driving my R$$$ demand upwards, which was being supplied by incoming R$$$ sims who were attracted to my high educational/park levels and reasonable commute times.

Life seemed good...and my future goal of getting a city full of R and C skyscrapers seemed on the rise.

And then something happened. R$$$,  Co$$$ and Cs$$$ went negative for some reason (I may have done something inadvertant to cause this, like overzoned). R$ and R$$ as well as Cs$$ and Co$$ and I-HT were all still quite strong (close to 6000).

Yet nothing happened when I zoned for them.  Zoning either commercial or residential and providing it with water/power/multiple forms of mass transit and local jobs yielded zero growth.  Placing multiple recreational objects did not help in the least.   Zoning farther away from the cities with less mass transit (kinda as a suburb offshoot farther away from the cities) also didn't develop.

So I figured I'd start some cities in local regions to help get past what seemed to be perhaps a cap.  So I made a completely industrial city next door (around 40k industrial jobs) and connected it to where I have a central residential area to facilitate commutes.  Just as expected, the residents of that area partially stopped commuting to my CBD and into the industrial city.  But surprisingly, no new residential zoning area developed to replace the jobs that were (I assume) lost in the CBD.

Even more suprisingly to me, the only demand value that had budged was the I's (they all tanked to -6000).  So I rezoned over the industrial sectors that were starting to become abandoned due to low demand, provided full amentities and still have yet to see development.

So I figured maybe if I try to supply the demand for R$ in another local city, that will help.  So I made a "slumtown" next door and watched as 19,000 commuters flowed into my city and almost directly into the CBD.  And yet...nothing changed.  No other demand was affected (not even R$ for my central city!), and no new development (ANY type of commercial or residential) occured.

So finally, in an act of desparation, I went to another city that I had been playing with that had approx. 100k commercial jobs and completely wiped them from the map.  This left me with a huge residential surplus and I figured I could at least get commercial development to proceed in my main city.

And indeed it did...but not nearly as much as I expected, and not even close to 100k.  Furthermore, this absolutely tanked my residential demand.

So what I'm left with (regionwide) is -6000 demand for industry and residential (all subcategories of each), and the same strongly positive Cs$/Cs$$ and Co$$ that I had previously...yet no commercial development!

Right now I'm out of ideas.  Ideally, I'd like to know two things:

1) What caused the sudden lack of development even when demand was +6000 for what I had zoned;

2) What I should do now that my residential and industrial aspects of my cities are haywire.

Just an FYI, my taxes for this city are as follows:

R: 8% for R$ and R$$, 7.5% for R$$$

C: 8-9% across the board, expect Co$$$, which is 3%

I: 10% across the board (I figure I had enough indy jobs in other industrial city that was connected)

I read somewhere about the Census Repository Facility...do you think this could help me diagnose the issue?

Thank you very much for your help and again I apologize for the long-winded nature of this post.

[Ignition2k 0]

I should also mention that when I zone, I make sure it's appropriate conditions for the type of Sim I want living there: i.e. if I want R$$$ sims I won't zone in a place that's red for desirability.

Thus, wherever I zone for R$ sims, it's bright green...and demand is +6000, and there is local C$ or a commercial-zoned area...and yet they still fail to move in (this is after a period of like 25+ years too).

EDIT: Here's the short version:

I had high demand for R$ and R$$ and Cs$/Cs$$ and Co$$, yet absolutely no growth when I zoned for R or C  (including proving good mass transit lines and amenities such as schools, police, fire and parks).  I would let it run for 25+ years, and yet no development.  Desirability was always green for all R and C zoned areas.

Adding neighboring cities (pure industrial + slum) had no discernable effect.

Current situation is: R and I subtypes all -6000, Cs$/Cs$$ and Co$$ all +6000, Cs$$$ and Co$$$ sightly negative.

What caused this originally and how should I fix my current situation to allow for growth?

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Have you put in an airport in your "C" city that helps demand, also have you put in Landmarks they also have effects?

What connections do you have to the neighbouring cites?

What neighbour deals do you have in place?

What about transport (avenues, highways, rail, el-rail, subways etc)?

How old is your city?

What density have you zoned?

Have you tried query and transport query? What do they tell you?

[BattleshipAgincourt 1]

I actually also have this problem. No matter what I do, except maybe building landmarks with office jobs (which detracts from other offices) I end up getting lots of demand for certain commercial service C$,C$, R$ and I have many perfect lots ready for development and lots of demand... no growth. All other demands seemed to be taken care of, but nothing happens and the growth cycle doesn't rebound, even in easy mode.

Airport-ready

Transportation-short commutes, lots of mass transit and no traffic

plazas, parks, water, power, police, schools, hospitals, 

jobs of all kinds within reach of boarder cities.

All this adds up to:

No growth of any kind for no logical reason I can see.

[Ignition2k 0]

Originally posted by: Merlin of Flyote

Have you put in an airport in your "C" city that helps demand, also have you put in Landmarks they also have effects?

What connections do you have to the neighbouring cites?

What neighbour deals do you have in place?

What about transport (avenues, highways, rail, el-rail, subways etc)?

How old is your city?

What density have you zoned?

Have you tried query and transport query? What do they tell you?quote>

1) I have an airport (about 100 years old) and two landmarks in the city currently.  I also have nearly every award available present in the city.

2) Almost every possible type of connection to each neighboring city (road, highway, el. rail, subway, monorail...the works).

3) A single neighbor deal. I am deporting about 1600 tons of trash to a neighboring city.

4) I have extensive transportation networking, both within the city and connected to neighboring cities.

5) The city is about 250 years old.

6) I began the city by zoning almost exclusively light R/C, I-Ag and Medium density industry.  City has always had I-M and I-HT, and never developed I-D.

As the city started to sprawl I eventually started zoning heavier to reduce the costs of providing amenities.  Now, about 2/3 of the map is zoned, mainly in dense.  However, when experimenting with the new regions (the ones that refuse to grow), it simply doesn't seem to matter what or where I zone...nothing will develop.

7) They mainly tell me that desirability factors are all being satisfied, and land value is always high, with no exceptions.  I had read somewhere poor sims will live anywhere, and I assumed this was true even when hospitals/schools are present nearby.

Thanks for the replies guys.  I'll be happy to try and take any screenshots of ingame information if you believe that would be helpful in this diagnosis.  Simply let me know what you need and I'll see about getting it.

EDIT: For what it's worth im playing on easy mode also.

[PattyO 0]

I always seem to have this problem too. A lot of times I find that my transportation network needs work, but if what you're saying is true, yours is top-notch, so that can't explain it. My hunch when I've been playing is that land values are actually too high to foster R-$ growth. I have no reason to believe this, so don't take my word on it at all! It's just something that would make sense to me. I mean, there's a good reason that low-income people don't live in the ritzy part of town; they can't afford the property.

In conclusion, I as well am anxious to see what is really going on here.

[Ignition2k 0]

Thanks for the response patty! The land value hypothesis makes intuitive sense. Too bad there isn't a way to instruct the garbage truck-driving sims to spread some of their work around my new "slum" zoning area :-P

Perhaps if I try polluting an area to drive down the land value I could test this hypothesis. I will see about doing that later tonight...right now I'm trying to figure out all this modding stuff (I'm taking a shot at CAM development and such).

[thiosk 0]

I would say try sticking a city with residential \ industrial \ residential \ industrial, ramp Hi-T and manuf. taxes up to 20, and fail to give them anything beyond an elementary school education.

Build that up nice and dense and you have yourself some perfect R$ zoneing to soak up some of that demand.

[Livin in Sim 83]

R$ slum cities rock for stabilizing region demand, but unless you have a mighty mouse finger to keep checking the "Make Historical" box, they will upgrade if you let them get "too nice".  Taxes are another form of control.  Fully educated R$ are beneficial as well, they will work anywhere, as I might have passed on before.  Here and here are some demand info links that I've found very helpful.

Have fun.

--Liv

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Originally posted by: Ignition2k

I have an airport (about 100 years old) and two landmarks in the city currently.  I also have nearly every award available present in the city.

You could try more Landmarks, I think some of them help with caps.

2) Almost every possible type of connection to each neighboring city (road, highway, el. rail, subway, monorail...the works).

Is it easier for sims to get to the neighbouring industrial city, rather than your downtown? Sims always take the easiest option. You might need to make getting to downtown easier for some R$ sims perhaps.

3) A single neighbor deal. I am deporting about 1600 tons of trash to a neighboring city.OK

4) I have extensive transportation networking, both within the city and connected to neighboring cities.see above

5) The city is about 250 years old.OK

6) I began the city by zoning almost exclusively light R/C, I-Ag and Medium density industry.  City has always had I-M and I-HT, and never developed I-D.

As the city started to sprawl I eventually started zoning heavier to reduce the costs of providing amenities.  Now, about 2/3 of the map is zoned, mainly in dense.  However, when experimenting with the new regions (the ones that refuse to grow), it simply doesn't seem to matter what or where I zone...nothing will develop.

This is strange, I would have expected to see the surounding cities grow as R$ and others to grow I-Ag and I-D

7) They mainly tell me that desirability factors are all being satisfied, and land value is always high, with no exceptions.  I had read somewhere poor sims will live anywhere, and I assumed this was true even when hospitals/schools are present nearby.

Have you queried individual buildings to see a) number of workers and b) where those workers are coming from. This can sometimes help find transport problems that will prevent sims from going where you would like them to go.

Thanks for the replies guys.  I'll be happy to try and take any screenshots of ingame information if you believe that would be helpful in this diagnosis.  Simply let me know what you need and I'll see about getting it.

EDIT: For what it's worth im playing on easy mode also.

quote>

Pictures are always helpful in trying to diagnose problems.

[chris0101 8]

Typically when you get to some point, demand starts flatten out and decline. I'm not sure whether or not the programmers originally made the game this way or not (too big cities use up too much CPU/RAM/VRAM), but that is what happens.

Anyways, one solution is to install the CAM. The CAM basically adds 15 stages (vs 8 for the original) and was designed to mitigate this. Bear in mind though that you will be unable to use ANY non-CAM RCI buildings, so maybe this is not the solution.. At some point in Simcity, CO$$$ demand seems to hit the toilet. This leads to CS$$$ going down and with it, the residents that work in such offices. I-HT then declines. Usually after a decline, it tends to re stabilize at some point, and then you get a fairly constant population (ex: it fluctuates within 3-4%). That is as large as a city goes. In normal games, often this occurs when population is about 800k-1.2 million a 256x256 map. What's your population?

The only alternative is to use one of those "radical mods" like super demand. That is why they were made - to allow for unending city growth as long as space would allow.