Bill Nye, The Science Guy Boo'd in Waco

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

So . . . people who do care about religion shouldn't be educated?

quote>

I think the point is that if someone's got so much wool over their eyes that they actually believe the moon gives off light, they don't want to be educated to the contrary.

...then again, I get the impression that the offense was taken not at  Mr. Nye claiming the moon reflects light rather than generating it, but at him saying "there's this bible passage that says this, but it's wrong because..."

This was (understandably) read as him taking a cheap shot at their religion. If he hadn't mentioned the bible, they wouldn't have objected.

And then of course the media read that as "look at these idiots who believe the moon gives off light and take offense to someone saying otherwise."

[ShortStraw 1]

Once again, Duke nails it.

The Texans were offended that Nye publicly disputed the bible, an impolite if not offensive act in my American Bible Belt. I don't think anyone in the article stated that the moon emits light. The press saw a chance to pit science and religion against one another with some convenient stereotypes already represented and ran with it.

Much ado about nothing when you get down to it.

[LivingInThePast 364]

I think the whole debate has been taken out of context, but being a Texan (and Christian) I think everything has been blown out of proportion. Of course the moon doesn't produce it's own light, but some people take things too literally.

[sneakeypete 16]

Originally posted by: ShortStraw

Once again, Duke nails it.

The Texans were offended that Nye publicly disputed the bible, an impolite if not offensive act in my American Bible Belt. I don't think anyone in the article stated that the moon emits light. The press saw a chance to pit science and religion against one another with some convenient stereotypes already represented and ran with it.

quote>

Then they really need to chill the heck out.

[Jay Ess 15]

Everyone should know that Bill Nye always takes stuff too seriously... oh wait... I've seen his show... I can't say that... eh... I'm just going to slowly edge to the Reply button...

(no real opinion right now)

[david1314 44]

Originally posted by: Duke87

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

So . . . people who do care about religion shouldn't be educated?

quote>

I think the point is that if someone's got so much wool over their eyes that they actually believe the moon gives off light, they don't want to be educated to the contrary.

...then again, I get the impression that the offense was taken not at  Mr. Nye claiming the moon reflects light rather than generating it, but at him saying "there's this bible passage that says this, but it's wrong because..."

This was (understandably) read as him taking a cheap shot at their religion. If he hadn't mentioned the bible, they wouldn't have objected.

And then of course the media read that as "look at these idiots who believe the moon gives off light and take offense to someone saying otherwise."

quote>

Bill Nye is an academic.  Dialogue is paramount to the academic process.  To start and say something obtuse like "the moon doesn't give off light," unqualified and without proper introduction as a stand-alone idea would cast a dark shadow on his credibility.  

You can either do a ground-up construction of an academic thought, as you would for say teaching an abstract idea like calculus; or you can present the Socratic dialogue which necessarily hinges on correction of the misconception.  Obviously, you cannot do a ground-up construction when anyone which sight who has lived through a lunar cycle understands the moon gives off light, this is not an abstract thought and is self-evident even to those who do not understand light and reflection.  The only reasonable way he could discuss this credibly is by introducing it in opposition to an errantly held belief.

Remember, the bible is an academic document first-a historic recording.  It was only once people venerated the academic document that it became a religious one.

I would compare the situation to describing Chaos theory to  a group of physisists.  The proper place to begin this discussion is that Newton didn't get it quite right.  At this point, if physisist moaned, declared their belief in Newton, and stormed out in anger, we would be right to fault the intollerant physisists.  The person who claimed Newton wasn't quite right CANNOT be held accountable for the offence taken; no reasonable person would claim this.  The same applies in the Bill Nye-Waco situation.

We can hardly fault Bill Nye for offering a reasonable segway in lieu of an awkward discontinuity in the discussion.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: ShortStraw

Once again, Duke nails it.

The Texans were offended that Nye publicly disputed the bible, an impolite if not offensive act in my American Bible Belt. I don't think anyone in the article stated that the moon emits light. The press saw a chance to pit science and religion against one another with some convenient stereotypes already represented and ran with it.

Much ado about nothing when you get down to it.quote>

QF m-f'n T

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: david1314

Bill Nye is an academic. {blah blah blah} Bill Nye-Waco situation.quote>

True. And, this is why not knowing the context here is problematic. Makes it hard to think about how he could have done it better.

We can hardly fault Bill Nye for offering a reasonable segway in lieu of an awkward discontinuity in the discussion.quote>

No, but, then again, he should have known better than to speak of the bible in a less than positive light in front of an audience of conservative Christians.

Oh, and it's "segue". "Segways" are those two-wheeled personal transport thingies.

[BlondeTwiggy 43]

Uhm, pretty sure the Bible doesn't say that the moon creates its own light; it just says it is a light.  Right?  It's a light in that it reflects light, if that makes sense. 

So yes, take the time to study the actual context/meaning of the verse.  Neither Bill Nye (that song will forever be stuck in my head now...) nor  the audience apparently understand it.  Ahh, ignorance. 

[david1314 44]

Blond,  Bill Nye quoted the (King James) bible directly.  It was only a few rogue audience members who drew false conclusions.

"Light" is not significantly defined scientifically to apply directly to the bible.  It is not clear if the bible is decribing an luminous, illuminated, or reflective object.

I did find Youngs Literal Translation Bible that offers the term "Luminaries"; but alas, my knowledge of Latin, English, religion, and physics don't quite jive on this point for me to suggest what "luminaries" refer to-I can imagine it referring to both a luminous and an illuminated object, but the third case is what's operative here. and it doesn't seem to  favor one of the three types of objects.

What it comes down to is the bible is correct in it's vaguery (they are both provide light to the earth's surface) and that Bill Nye is correct they are not both sources of light (we  are unsure if the term 'light' was applied only after the fact on the blog or by Bill Nye himself).

But insofar as: Bible says moon is a luminary; and Bill Nye points out moon not luminous; so Individual says "we believe in god" and storms out in anger...  The individual could have said anything "I like spam," "I feel sick," "Help, I'm on fire", and it would have made equally as much sense in context.

Originally posted by: Duke87

No, but, then again, he should have known better than to speak of the bible in a less than positive light in front of an audience of conservative Christians.

Oh, and it's "segue". "Segways" are those two-wheeled personal transport thingies.

quote>

He didn't appear to speak poorly of the Bible.  He just made a factual statement with no normative moral judgement. I mean, he could have just shut up and not said anything, but it kind of defeats the purpose of travelling to Texas.

I would think the context was that he was offering an educational and entertaining presentation to individuals that were there voluntarily to hear him.  Admittedly, my theory is heavily dependent on that assumption, but it is such a common situation (academic presentations) that the burden would fall to someone else to suggest that this was NOT the context.  In this context we may safely pass judgement on Bill Nye that his actions were normal and acceptable.  I would go further to categorically state that an interuption claiming beleifs counter to the presenter in announcing a departure in the context of an academic presentation is rude-at the very least.

I would think that at this point, any reasonable person would expect evidential support before suggesting that Bill Nye may have been guilty of a lack of tact.  I've alway been a proponent of the simplest explanation being the most likely (I perfer the term 'proximate explanation), and I would think my 2nd paragraph explains the situation the simplest way.

Duke, I would agree with your point that we don't know the context if the one woman who yelled out said something like "The moon is a light and you're an idiot!" or "I think you're wrong and intollerant in your views on sun-moon inter-relations" but to go off on a subject that had not been invoked can be clearly established as outside the context of the discussion-regardless of the tact of the presenter can clearly be established as outside the context of the discussion, even if that context is unknown.

[Mikeaut1 261]

I agree 100% with Duke... shame on Bill Nye for using the Bible in a relatively negative way to explain a scientific concept in Waco Texas.  I mean, he should've expected some type of rebuttal knowing where he was speaking. However on the part of the audience members that left, I don't think it was the smart idea to cause a ruckus and leave.

Well despite it all, Bill Nye has had his 15 minutes' comeback since a decade!

[Silentradar 9]

Originally posted by: masochist

Yeah, ahh, let's not generalize the entirety of Texas because of the actions and thoughts of a few random people. Most Texans (like myself) know better .

In the same vein, let's also not generalize the entire Christian faith because of the actions and thoughts of a few random people. Most Christians (like myself) also know better quote>

"most" christians do NOT know better imo.  its about 50/50 in my experience - which is more vast and deep then i care to share, trust me.

[hamsterTK 93]

If you are from Texas then you know Waco has a negative reputation. It and the eastern half of the state.

[masochist 111]

Originally posted by: Silentradar

Originally posted by: masochist

Yeah, ahh, let's not generalize the entirety of Texas because of the actions and thoughts of a few random people. Most Texans (like myself) know better .

In the same vein, let's also not generalize the entire Christian faith because of the actions and thoughts of a few random people. Most Christians (like myself) also know better quote>

"most" christians do NOT know better imo.  its about 50/50 in my experience - which is more vast and deep then i care to share, trust me.

quote>

Wow, that's rather sad.  So as not to throw the thread off-topic, however, I can only apologize that your experience with Christians has led you to hold such a belief.

Originally posted by: hamsterTK

If you are from Texas then you know Waco has a negative reputation. It and the eastern half of the state.

quote>

True, and in this thread, there are many generalizations based on that reputation; I'm just trying to get people to not fall back on worn-out stereotypes as their reason to expect something like this to happen.  Notice that the article says most people in the audience took it in good humor, and that it was only a couple of people who were offended and left.  Obviously, I believe those few people were offended over nothing, and I'd rather people wouldn't speak as though all Texans/Christians would've done the same thing (because obviously they wouldn't, and I personally don't know anyone who would ;-)...).  That, and I really, really, really like Bill Nye .

Also...just to clarify: I am taking these generalizations personally, but I'm not offended by them (if that makes sense).  I've just taken it upon myself to try and change people's perspectives about both Texans and Christians (because as it turns out, I'm a liberal Baptist who lives in Lubbock, the most conservative city in Texas).  Don't know if I'm making any progress, but I can try, right?