Piracy off East Africa

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Considering the last two responses (Easy Bakes and krbe), I think I, again, did not properly phrase my question. I am talking about now, not in general. Besides the possible risk since the pirates have the captain as a hostage, what prevents a group of sharpshooters from eliminating the offenders?  Are they too far away, does the lifeboat have a canopy, is there something else, etc?

Thanks,

Barbarossaquote>

I think this particular boat has some sort of canopy or cabin they are holding him in.

You would still think they could send a couple divers to put a few small holes in the boat. slowly sinking wouldnt cause a huge panic for the pirates, but would speed up this stand off.

 

[Duke87 1,070]

Something interesting worth pointing out:

The US Constitution says that congress has the power "To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas". (Article I, Section .

A couple international treaties probably disagree, but it does say that.

As for how to properly handle the problem, I say the answer is simple: refuse to pay any ransom, ever. We don't negotiate with terrorists, let's not negotiate with pirates, either. Do that, and the business all of a sudden doesn't become so profitable. Problem solved.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Considering the last two responses (Easy Bakes and krbe), I think I, again, did not properly phrase my question. I am talking about now, not in general. Besides the possible risk since the pirates have the captain as a hostage, what prevents a group of sharpshooters from eliminating the offenders?  Are they too far away, does the lifeboat have a canopy, is there something else, etc?

Thanks,

Barbarossaquote>

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably one of two things.  Either it's the range, or, more probably, the fact that a small boat is not a stationary object.  It bobs up and down with the waves and whatnot.  It makes it difficult for even the world's best snipers to hit their target when it's moving and probably more than a mile away.

[Yoman3 5]

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Considering the last two responses (Easy Bakes and krbe), I think I, again, did not properly phrase my question. I am talking about now, not in general. Besides the possible risk since the pirates have the captain as a hostage, what prevents a group of sharpshooters from eliminating the offenders?  Are they too far away, does the lifeboat have a canopy, is there something else, etc?

Thanks,

Barbarossaquote>

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's probably one of two things.  Either it's the range, or, more probably, the fact that a small boat is not a stationary object.  It bobs up and down with the waves and whatnot.  It makes it difficult for even the world's best snipers to hit their target when it's moving and probably more than a mile away.

quote>

No, in this case it is a modern enclosed lifeboat, with enough water to last 10 people 30 days I remember hearing. Similar to the one below.

About the captains escape, why didn't the escorting destroyer blow the lifeboat up after he jumped off or at least provide covering fire, I mean they are watching the thing 24/7 now.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

At least the French are prepared to grab the bull by the horns. They went in to stop a yacht being taken to Somalia. They rescued 4 hostages including a child, unfortunately 1 hostage died in crossfire.

[Jillybean86 38]

To answer several questions:

20 crew members were taken hostage, but they disabled the engines before the pirates boarded. They were then able to overtake one pirate and negotiate their own release (the captain gave himself up so the crew could go free). The captain was trained in antipiracy techniques in the US.

The pirates are heavily armed with automatic assault rifles and rocket propelled grenades. There are four pirates holding the captain in a covered lifeboat. The USS Bainbridge, a cruise missile destroyer, is nearby.

It is the first pirate attack on a US flagged vessel since 1804, when an American ship was attacked off the coast of Libya.

The Maersk Alabama was carrying food, mostly corn and vegetable oil, to Mombasa, Kenya for humanitarian aid for Kenya, Uganda, and Somalia. It is currently being escorted to Mombasa.

As for why they don't arm the crews:

The pirates haven't actually killed anyone (until this French yacht incident). They seize ship after ship, but only for ransom money. They aren't interested in the crew for any other reason, and they certainly aren't interested in the cargo (which is amazing considering some of their loads). Crews have tried to repel the pirates with high-pressure water hoses, electrified hand rails, and simply removing the rickety ladders they use to board. Arming the crew would make the pirates much more forceful, and would put the crews in danger.  It would do nothing to scare the pirates.

Piracy has been very profitable for them, but all they're after is money. They aren't political, religious, or anything like we've faced before. They're also keeping any terrorism groups in Somalia at bay, since they're actually competing against one another.

Fixing this is not easy. There are no simple solutions. If there were, they'd have tried them by now. They have 15 or 16 ships right now with over 200 crew being held, and all were captured between October and March. Chances are if you've thought of a simple solution, someone somewhere that gets paid to answer questions like that has already thought of it.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

There are ways to deal with this:-

1st  NEVER pay ransoms, it only encourages more piracy.

2nd Shoot pirates before they get aboard, and do anything to stop them boarding.

3rd  When captured, make them walk the plank.

[Yoman3 5]

The captain was just freed and 3 of the pirates are dead, 1 in custody.

(CNN) -- The captain of the Maersk Alabama was freed Sunday after being held captive since Wednesday by pirates off the coast of Somalia, a senior U.S. official with knowledge of the situation told CNN.

The official said Capt. Richard Phillips is uninjured and in good condition, and that three of the four pirates were killed. The fourth pirate is in custody. Phillips was taken aboard the USS Bainbridge, a nearby naval warship.

Earlier Sunday afternoon Maersk Line Limited, owner of the Maersk Alabama, said the U.S. Navy informed the company that it had sighted Phillips in a lifeboat where pirates are holding him.

Phillips was spotted another time earlier in the day, the Navy said.

A man who answered the door at Phillips' home in Underhill, Vermont, told CNN's Stephanie Elam that the family has known the news for hours. He said details would have to come from Virginia, apparently referring to the home base of Maersk Line Limited, based in Norfolk, which owns the ship.

On Saturday, the FBI launched a criminal investigation into the hijacking of the U.S.-flagged cargo ship by Somali pirates, two law enforcement officials told CNN. The probe will be led by the FBI's New York field office, which is responsible for looking into cases involving U.S. citizens in the African region, the officials said.

The Maersk Alabama reached port in Mombasa, Kenya, on Saturday. Crew members aboard the freed cargo ship described how some of their colleagues attempted to "jump" their pirate captors.

A scuffle ensued and one of the sailors stabbed a pirate in the hand in the battle to retake the container ship, one of the sailors told CNN.

Snippets of information are starting to emerge about how the Alabama's crew managed to retake the ship after it was hijacked by pirates Wednesday about 350 miles off the coast of Somalia in the Indian Ocean.

Crew members smiled broadly as they stood on the ship's deck under the watchful eyes of security teams. Although the crew was kept away from the media, CNN's Stan Grant got close enough to ask crew members what happened after the pirates climbed aboard the ship.

One crew member said he recalled being awakened around 7 a.m. as the hijacking began.

"I was scared," Grant quoted the man as saying.

Some of the crew managed to hide in a secure part of the Alabama as the pirates stormed the ship, the sailor said.

As the sailors described their clash with the pirates, a crew member pointed to one shipmate and said, "This guy is a hero. He and the chief engineer, they took down the pirate. ... He led him down there to the engine room and then they jumped him."

The shipmate added that he stabbed the pirate's hand and tied him up.

"Capt. Phillips is a hero," another crew member shouted from the deck of the freed ship.

Since Phillips was captured Wednesday, the destroyer USS Bainbridge has been in the area of the lifeboat, trying to free him.

An attempt by Phillips to escape from the 28-foot covered lifeboat was thwarted by a pirate, who dove into the Indian Ocean after him. Phillips' captors appear to have tied him up afterward, Pentagon officials said.

 

The Alabama resumed its course on Thursday for Mombasa, its original destination, carrying food aid and an armed 18-person security detail.

Maersk president and CEO John Reinhart told reporters Saturday that the crew will stay on board in Mombasa while the FBI conducts an investigation.

 

 

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Finally! I was wondering what was taking them so long to do something.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Duke87

A couple international treaties probably disagree, but it does say that.

quote>

They don't, actually, though they prescirbe some rather draconian measures for establishing the fact that it is a pirate ship we're dealing with. Apart from that, there's not much to be said on this part—pirates are often taken to Kenya for trial, though the system isn't equipped adequately to deal with the pirates. The French have in at least one case take the pirates with them to let them stand trial in France after hijacking a French ship.

And as far as your "solution" for eliminating the problem by not paying any ransom: You're of course right, but what's good for the whole isn't necessarily good for the individual. The shipping companies are more interested in dealing with the problem at hand, and getting their ship, goods, and crew back, and they'll continue to pay the ransoms until  there's another solution on the table. Someone should start striking the shores of Somalia.

[Kevin 101]

Good news... that captain was so brave. Good to hear that he's in relatively good condition... though I'm not sure I'd be in the best of mental states after that whole ordeal.

[lgbrave4life 1]

I just heard on the news what happened. Well im glad we handeled this the right way. You can't negotiate with someone who either wants you dead or cares less about your existince. They just have there mind on one thing. That is money. If you give them what they want, it isn't gonna stop them. Think of it as a kid and a cookie jar.Give him a one cookie, he's gonna want more. I'm glad we put a scare into their operation. Not as much as the French and the Russians have. France has taken at least ten of these people and the Russians have captured dozens for a trial but for now they're being detained. You don't want to be captured by an angry Rusky.

Look on the bright side, the captain is free and we can send the one who managed to make it that we captured down onto a little visit to Guantam...Oh wait never mind.

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Well, I just saw the news break a few hours ago. I'm glad it had a favorable ending for Captain Phillips, although the death of the pirates is regrettable, but necessary.

My reccomendation to the American government is to assemble a large force to deal with the Somali pirates, patrolling the waters, providing escort for American ships, having SEAL teams nearby, as well as hostage negotiators, and station an aircraft carrier there to launch airstrikes on the pirate-held coast. Now, I am not aware of the policy Barack Obama is implementing now, but that is my idea of what to do with this situation.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Good For them.
A good resolution all around, Captive freed, Pirates dead or captured, no ransom paid.

Im sure someone will point out later that the operation cost more then the ransom would have  been. But thats nit picking details.





 

[Jezus53 18]

Who cares if it cost more, the message was sent that we will not play by their rules. I bet if we do this a few more times then they'll get the picture. Well, maybe not, but one can hope right?

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Originally posted by: Patricius Maximus

Well, I just saw the news break a few hours ago. I'm glad it had a favorable ending for Captain Phillips, although the death of the pirates is regrettable, but necessary.

quote>

Why is their death regrettable, surely the capture of the forth one is regrettable. Public money will be spent on his detention, trial and defense. A bullet in the head and then thrown overboard as shark food would have been better.

[ShortStraw 1]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30178013?GT1=43001

Hahahahahahahaha

Revenge

hahahahahahahhahahahaa

[Jezus53 18]

Originally posted by: ShortStraw

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30178013?GT1=43001

Hahahahahahahaha

Revenge

hahahahahahahhahahahaaquote>

They make it sound like we started it all.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Mabey the one they captured will give us some info we can use.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Duke87

Something interesting worth pointing out:

The US Constitution says that congress has the power "To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas". (Article I, Section .

A couple international treaties probably disagree, but it does say that.

quote>

The full clause is:

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;  quote>

which at least implies that other nations get involved somehow.  But, I agree, a couple of international treaties probably disagree with this.

From :  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30178013?GT1=43001

"From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages)," Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old pirate, told the Associated Press from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl. "(U.S. forces have) become our No. 1 enemy."quote>

So  . . . if they capture foreign ships, the respective countries are supposed to just think that's okay and kick back and chill out?

Piracy is the ocean version of being mugged.    Since when is that okay?

Thinking about it . . . It reminds me of high school where it was well known that it was wise to avoid certain hallways and bathrooms since certain people had staked those out as being "theirs" and encroaching on "their" territory could easily result in a mugging.

 

[Duke87 1,070]

"From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages)," Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old pirate, told the Associated Press from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl. "(U.S. forces have) become our No. 1 enemy."quote>

So, let me get this straight... a reporter was talking directly to a pirate, and even got his name... but (at least we may presume) did not turn him in to the authorities? That's not right.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Originally posted by: Duke87

"From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages)," Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old pirate, told the Associated Press from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl. "(U.S. forces have) become our No. 1 enemy."quote>

So, let me get this straight... a reporter was talking directly to a pirate, and even got his name... but (at least we may presume) did not turn him in to the authorities? That's not right.quote>

 

I understand (from a news report over Easter) that they had attacked 2 other American ships in the gulf. They boarded one but were fended off from the other.

Any info on this?

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: Duke87

"From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages)," Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old pirate, told the Associated Press from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl. "(U.S. forces have) become our No. 1 enemy."quote>

So, let me get this straight... a reporter was talking directly to a pirate, and even got his name... but (at least we may presume) did not turn him in to the authorities? That's not right.quote>

From the phrasing it looks more likely that they didn´t speak directly, but on the phone. It doesn´t strike me as a good idea for a reporter to show up on the doorstep of a bunch of guys who make their money from ransoming people and cargo, just to get a comment on a story.

And you have to wonder how much value an individual pirate like that has. We already knew this Eyl place is a piracy hub, so there´s no point in nabbing a pirate to get the location of their secret treasure trove or operating base. His name is nice to have if you want to convict someone, but for that you´d also need evidence that´s stronger than a random reporter´s hearsay.

Besides, what authorities should he go to? Somalia doesn't have much in the way of authorities, since it's been in civil war since '91. To the US government? You can't exactly write up a warrant and get the guy in handcuffs. And a military operation against a single port or group of pirates would be equal parts costly and pointless.

[hym 358]

The report I read said that it was one ship of unknown origin that was attacked, and two Egyptian fishing boats.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Another Food Aid ship attacked.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090415/ap_on_re_af/piracy

Our latest hijackings are meant to show that no one can deter us from protecting our waters from the enemy because we believe in dying for our land,quote>

Protecting thier waters? from shiping?

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

US Rep Ron Paul has an idea, taking a page from history. Letters of Marque and Reprisal! Story here.

Certainly an American way of dealing with the problem.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

US Rep Ron Paul has an idea, taking a page from history. Letters of Marque and Reprisal! Story here.

Certainly an American way of dealing with the problem.

quote>

Interesting idea but who watches the bounty hunters?

[Jezus53 18]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Our latest hijackings are meant to show that no one can deter us from protecting our waters from the enemy because we believe in dying for our land,quote>

Protecting thier waters? from shiping?

quote>

Exactly what I was saying before! They make it sound like we are doing something wrong. We are sending aid to countries and transporting goods for trade. Just beause you all ruined your country and now no one wants to trade with does not mean we are attacking you. They started it, we just want to end it.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

News just in.... French forces have just captured 11 more pirates.

[Easy Bakes 253]

The frenchies captured 11 Kenyan Pirates

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-04-15-voa37.cfm

Since Sunday's rescue operation, pirates have captured four more vessels, a Togo-flagged cargo ship, a Greek freighter and two Egyptian fishing boats. Greek officials said the pirates Wednesday released the cargo ship and its 24-member crew.