Oregon looks at taxing mileage driven.

[hym 358]

Link

My thoughts:

Instead of a GPS system, how about making it part of any yearly state inspection?  While the mechanic checks the vehicle safety, just have him check the odometer and write down the mileage.  It'd be cheaper to implement, could be done on all vehicles (not just the new models), and wouldn't have the privacy concerns associated with the state government collecting information on where you're driving.  (This could also be made a part of a yearly emissions test or some other just test.)

[Meg 368]

Great.  Another reason for the government to gather info on us and keep track of it in piles of red tape.

 

No thanks.

 

 

[your_adress_here 11]

Sounds like a dumb idea.

[Sam 163]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek Great.  Another reason for the government to gather info on us and keep track of it in piles of red tape.

 

No thanks.

 

 quote>

Not to mention yet another tax. I think they've had similar ideas here, but I think they want to go for the GPS method because then they can tax certain roads higher then others.

[DuskTrooper 314]

*Hacks and spits into big brother's face*

[Explodingsims 3]

How is this legal?

[panthersimcity4 162]

Hmm, maybe we should tax people determined by how their political views differ from the government's? All hail big brother!

[duack 14]

Bad idea! Not another hidden cost of a car. Im trying to buy a car but I keep remembering i have to get insurance, a green slip and a pink slip. What the hell are they? What's next? a blue slip? my favourite colour =]

[Odainsaker 2,133]

It's actually not all that new. Though an extreme example, Singapore does it out necessity with their "Electronic Road Pricing," which essentially taxes road usage and peak time usage, making them a world leader in congestion pricing. Drivers wanting to use priced roads are required to have a purchased billing device installed in their vehicles, into which you insert payment cards. As you drive around central Singapore, toll sensors along key roadway gantries detect and read your billing device, automatically deducting the appropriate toll payment from your loaded payment card. Not having the billing device installed or not having sufficent funds loaded on your payment card when passing an active toll gantry and entering a tolled area bring automatic traffic fines. Singapore is a fine place...you pay fine, fine, fine, hehehe. With Singapore the first in the world to broadly implement this system, other congested cities are starting to follow suit.

It is a deliberate policy to reduce automobile usage and congestion, and even licenses to own an operate are vehicle are frighteningly expensive. Of course, such a system (draconian to most Americans) must be coupled with an extensive and convenient public mass transit system, and tiny Singapore has one of the world's most comprehensive systems, with stations integrated into malls and public areas. The public I am sure hates it, but studies show such systems within their target areas work. GPS is the next innovation up from immobile and unadjustable sensor gantries, and even an "Electronic Parking System" for automatic billing of parked cars is on the horizon.  Already being rolled out are computer-adjusted dynamic changing prices based on real-time road usage!  It'll be even better than those indecipherable cell-phone pricing plans.

Start polishing that bike!

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: Odainsaker It's actually not all that new. Though an extreme example, Singapore does it out necessity with their "Electronic Road Pricing," which essentially taxes road usage and peak time usage, making them a world leader in congestion pricing. Drivers wanting to use priced roads are required to have a purchased billing device installed in their vehicles, into which you insert payment cards. As you drive around central Singapore, toll sensors along key roadway gantries detect and read your billing device, automatically deducting the appropriate toll payment from your loaded payment card. Not having the billing device installed or not having sufficent funds loaded on your payment card when passing an active toll gantry and entering a tolled area bring automatic traffic fines. Singapore is a fine place...you pay fine, fine, fine, hehehe. With Singapore the first in the world to broadly implement this system, other congested cities are starting to follow suit.

It is a deliberate policy to reduce automobile usage and congestion, and even licenses to own an operate are vehicle are frighteningly expensive. Of course, such a system (draconian to most Americans) must be coupled with an extensive and convenient public mass transit system, and tiny Singapore has one of the world's most comprehensive systems, with stations integrated into malls and public areas. The public I am sure hates it, but studies show such systems within their target areas work. GPS is the next innovation up from immobile and unadjustable sensor gantries, and even an "Electronic Parking System" for automatic billing of parked cars is on the horizon.  Already being rolled out are computer-adjusted dynamic changing prices based on real-time road usage!  It'll be even better than those indecipherable cell-phone pricing plans.

Start polishing that bike!

quote>

 

Untill they start haveing the same technology on bikes, you are after all using the same roads

and taking up space parking.

[bixel 1,221]

I live in Oregon. Its the dumbest idea EVER. Why tax mileage that requires a GPS unit? >> when the tax probably doesn't even pay for the amount of million or so GPS units and the time to install them. Ridiculous!

All the states are suffering right now, but if you want to tax something tax the source. So instead tax gas.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

It's indicative of the mindset in OR. I lived there for over 2 years, and I can tell you that no tax is ever enough for them. They are getting creative because they are plain running out of things to tax.

They banned smoking in casinos and video-lottery parlors, then discovered this caused a dropoff in business that will cost the state $75 million in 2009. Now they need to plug that hole, too. Which is easier than just not using social engineering as a sandbox for the Left. I hated to leave NW scenery, but I won't miss the foolishness of the OR state gov't one bit.

Just wait, they'll come up with an even worse idea next year.

[hamsterTK 93]

I wonder if you could make a device that would spoof the signal. It would be illegal but I think getting caught with one would be unlikely. A fairly large black market seems to exist for such a thing.

Instead of a GPS system, how about making it part of any yearly state inspection?  While the mechanic checks the vehicle safety, just have him check the odometer and write down the mileage.  It'd be cheaper to implement, could be done on all vehicles (not just the new models), and wouldn't have the privacy concerns associated with the state government collecting information on where you're driving.  (This could also be made a part of a yearly emissions test or some other just test.)quote>

You would think someone would have thought that by now, but that's not how the government works I guess

[Ntq€310 1]

Wouldn;t this just hurt the economy even more?

[Duke87 1,070]

If you really want to do this, it would seem so much simpler to just check the odometer, no? Odometers on all cars made within the past 15-20 years at least are pretty damn tamper-proof enough. Ought to work just fine.

Although, the real question here is... if cars are becoming more fuel efficeint and causing gas tax revenues to drop, why not just raise the gas tax? That seems like the biggest stupid "duh" thing here.

As the article pointed out, the gas tax has the advantage of encouraging people to drive more efficient vehicles. A mileage tax would just encourage people to drive less... and could in fact hurt the drive for fuel efficiency in some cases, since it will make the tax less for driving a shorter route on city streets than a longer route on highways... which, depending on how much longer, might actually be more fuel efficient. Not to mention it would be faster.

I fail to how this is in any way a smart idea... other than that proposing to raises gas taxes would be political suicide right about now and this is an attempt to weasel around that.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: Duke87 If you really want to do this, it would seem so much simpler to just check the odometer, no? Odometers on all cars made within the past 15-20 years at least are pretty damn tamper-proof enough. Ought to work just fine.

quote>

 

Odometers now are digital, the engine computers can be reprogrammed to say anything you want. The dealership is always the place that knows how to reset odometers better than anyone.

[Sam 163]

Originally posted by: Duke87 If you really want to do this, it would seem so much simpler to just check the odometer, no? Odometers on all cars made within the past 15-20 years at least are pretty damn tamper-proof enough. Ought to work just fine.

...quote>

That would be very labour intensive compared to GPS data collection. However it would have the advantage that it would provide a lot of jobs, which would be good for an economy in a downturn. How many million cars in Oregon for someone to physically check each one once a year? Plus public service staff to manually enter the data, process it and distribute the bills.

I would have thought fuel consumed would be roughly proportional to mileage anyway, and as you say penalise less efficient vehicles more.

Originally posted by: Ntq$310 Wouldn;t this just hurt the economy even more?quote>

Raising taxes in an economic downturn is generally not a great idea. It takes money out of the budgets of consumers, and therefore out of the market at a time when it is most needed. Plus it will probably mean price hikes in consumables such as food that have to be transported to the point of sale. Higher transport costs means higher prices on the supermarket shelves.

[hamsterTK 93]

Well they already have vehicle inspections in most states, some more involved than others.

Here its just this guy who drives your car around the parking lot and checks various things. The inspection garage is just a metal shack built behind one of the local auto part stores. Also they gladly accept tips if you happen to have any problems

Since at the end of the test the tester already has to enter data into a computer terminal, just add a odometer section, and connect that database to the state tax offices

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: sam

That would be very labour intensive compared to GPS data collection. quote>

Not really. As has been said, vehicles already have regular inspections.

Besides, GPS data collection involves sticking a GPS unit in every car - which isn't exactly cheap.

And, I don't care if there's a reassurance that it isn't collecting and storing detailed information beyond distance traveled. Why should I trust such a "reassurance" from the same government that thinks it's okay to tap people's phones without them knowing and without a warrant? I'd rather not worry about big brother watching me through such devices, thank you very much.

I would have thought fuel consumed would be roughly proportional to mileage anyway, and as you say penalise less efficient vehicles more. quote>

Except that fuel efficiency varies depending on the type of driving. Like I said before, it's substantially more efficient to be driving on the highway than on city streets, but routes involving highways are often longer distancewise. Whenever highways get involved, the shortest route is almost never the fastest route, nor is it likely to be the most fuel efficient route. Taxing distance thus effectively encourages people to take a shorter but less efficient route in these cases.

And, I reiterate: Why not just raise the damned gas tax?

[nthooze 13]

odometer won't work because it does not account for miles driven out of state.

[hamsterTK 93]

Yeah

At first it would be the temptation to use them for traffic planning, adding tracking devices to create maps. Then comes monitoring driving habits of teenagers, adding "black box" like functionality. Eventually everyone would have to one, at first maybe just for insurance savings, but long term they'de be required.

Now the state knows where you've been and where your going, all the time, and there is nothing you can do about it.

[hym 358]

Then comes monitoring driving habits of teenagers, adding "black box" like functionality. Eventually everyone would have to one, at first maybe just for insurance savings, but long term they'de be required. quote>

Insurance companies are already promoting such devices. Don't know if you knew that.

[Easy Bakes 253]

So if they tax the miles you drive, what happens when you claim vehicle mileage as a deduction

on your taxes ? You get a bigger deduction? or not even bother keep track?

[DanWalker8 3]

can't escape taxes with eco-friendly cars anymore! Could it possibly be cheaper to drive a hummer 10 miles a day than to drive a prius 35? The gov't has the ultimate monopoly - you'll never escape taxes

[nthooze 13]

Originally posted by: hamsterTK Yeah

At first it would be the temptation to use them for traffic planning, adding tracking devices to create maps. Then comes monitoring driving habits of teenagers, adding "black box" like functionality. Eventually everyone would have to one, at first maybe just for insurance savings, but long term they'de be required.

Now the state knows where you've been and where your going, all the time, and there is nothing you can do about it.

quote>

This is the true underlying evil at work in these sort of proposals.  Much like the traffic monitoring cameras EVERYWEHRE these days.  Fast pass, even this new clear card system,  All part of the big brother grid being constructed around us all.

Freedom should be added to the endangered list.

[Patricius Maximus 236]

Even though I do not live in Oregon, I get waves of chills up my spine at the very thought of having the government monitoring my car every second of every day and where it is going.

I can just see now the rampant abuses of this power by the government, and not just monitoring. This should not be implemented, whatever the monetary gain is.

I agree with Hym's idea to implement this tax -- simply get all the cars in one place annually, and read the odometers. It would be cheaper to implement, not violate privacy rights, and it could be part of the same trip to register liscense plates, thus saving time for car owners.

Of course, I think this tax is a bad idea, because the alternative would have a benefit. Raise the gas tax to the level needed to finance the state. Not only would it pull in money, but higher gas prices would speed up the development of alternative energy and reduce oil consumption.

[Duke of York 23]

Awsome!.....Now the Gov. has another reason to soak money out of

the people.