mpg heros

[jammy 0]

Although petrol prices are now plummeting, the scary $4-$5 a gallon gas prices in the USA and Canada, and the

[Duke87 1,070]

Um, well, first of all, even if diesel cars are more fuel efficient, you have to account for the fact that diesel fuel is more expensive than gasoline. Around here, gas is down at about $2 a gallon but diesel is still over $3 a gallon. So even if we're comparing 30 mpg to 45, you're not saving yourself any money. Couple that with the fact that a lot of gas stations in this country don't sell diesel fuel and you have additional headache.

Besides which, there's a reason diesel has never really caught on in the US - diesel cars have trouble meeting our emissions standards.

No, I'm not talking about CO₂, here. I'm talking about the other stuff in the exhaust. Diesel engines are notorious for having exhaust which is high in sulfur oxides (which cause acid rain) and particulate matter (which causes health problems).

Now, granted, hybrids do have their own issues. Those Nickel-metal-hydride batteries in them require a certain inner transition metal (I think it's Neodymium) to make. Said metal pretty much only is found in China. Oh, and their production of it has slowed and they're using more themselves, so it's harder and harder to get.

Those batteries are hazardous waste, but so are the batteries found in conventional cars.

As for them being more expensive... it is true that they aren't going to pay for themselves unless you drive a lot (particularly city driving as opposed to highway driving) and/or the price of gas is high - which right now it's not. And unless taxes are put in place, there's no guarantee that at any given point in the future the price will be high enough to make a hybrid economically favorable.

It may be true that the manufacture of them has a significantly larger carbon footprint than that of a conventional car, but somehow I doubt that the reduction in emissions over the useful life of the car doesn't offset that. This is one I'm going to have to be skeptical about unless you can show me some numbers and calculations from a reliable source.

On the manual versus automatic transmission issue... really, nowadays with variable gear ratios, the gap in (in)famous fuel efficiency between them has vanished and, as you've said, in some cases the automatic is actually better.

Still, it's such a small difference that really which type of transmission you choose to get ought to be a matter of personal preference on which type you prefer to drive or are more capable of driving than a matter of worrying about minimal differences in fuel efficiency which are small enough that depending on your driving habits which is better may actually vary even with the exact same car.

I know that I absolutely cannot drive a stick. Never have, never attempted to learn it. Give me a car with a manual transmission and I won't know how to use it.

And, about your other "tips".... well, it's true that underinflated tires hurts your fuel economy and is something to be mindful of. It's also true that air conditioning will burn more fuel than having the windows open at lower speeds, although what speed the flip in efficiency occurs at will vary from car to car and 30 mph is a pretty low figure. It's usually more like 50 or 60.

If you think about it, really, when are you ever driving at sustained speeds below 30 mph unless you're stuck in traffic? No, the more general and sensible rule is to flip on the A/C when you get on the highway but open the windows when you're on local streets. Of course, it also depends on how high you turn up the A/C. Many newer cars now have a thermostat you can set rather than a simple on off switch and a variable fan speed, so the intensity of the cooling will automatically be adjusted to maintain your desired temperature - which is, naturally, more fuel efficient than simply turning the A/C on and leaving it on.

As for the avoiding sudden braking and accelerating ... eh, if it works for you, fine, but that's just not how I drive. I'm always more the rough type than the gentile type and as such I very much suddenly accelerate and brake since it's in my nature to, without thinking about it, forcefully push on pedals. If I want to just lightly tap the gas or the brake, it takes a conscious effort to not gorilla it.

Oh, and I've got anoter one to add: don't use cruise control. Forcing the car to constantly be applying gas and brakes to maintain a constant speed will hurt your fuel economy compared to working the pedals manually in which case you'll more naturally be slowing down going up hills while speeding up going down them and whatnot.

Ultimately, it all comes down to that whenever you hit the brakes, you lose energy. The less you hit the brakes, the more efficent you'll be. So it's better to let your car get up to 70 going downhill and slow to 60 going uphill rather than stubbornly forcing it to apply gas on the uphill only to then apply the brakes on the downhill and lose that energy needlessly, just for the sake of maintaining 65.

[jammy 0]

Thanks Duke87

I never new the price difference in the USA was so great between the two fuels, right now in the UK there is a difference of about 10p, but the average car gets a further 100-200 miles out of a tank so it kind of makes up the difference and a bit. Also here in Europe all stations sell Unleaded, Diesel and Autogas, even the tiny ones.

I understand that cars made even 3 or 4 years ago do not fit the US auto emissions act, particularly the difficult California one. But diesel cars produced now are several times cleaner than cars produced back in the early-mid 2000s. I know that the Volkswagen Jetta diesel is going to the USA, with the Bluemotion version (basically a diesel with a load of other stuff to make it more fuel efficient) manages 51 miles per US gallon, which is better than the 37mpg the best petrol engine does.

I did some calculations for this to find out which is cheaper, I took figures from a website which shows a 50 cent difference $2 per gallon and diesel $2.50 ...

to fill up the gasoline engine : $24.20 and then you get 534 miles per tank so it costs 4.5 cents per mile

to fill up the diesel engine: $30.25 and then you get 743 miles per tank so it costs 4.0 cents per mile

so if you do 12000 miles per year you spend $540 on gasoline..... or $480 on diesel

so it is cheaper but maybe diesel is much like a hybrid where it will only be financially viable if you drive a lot of miles, as a diesel car also costs a bit more as with the US emissions regulations a lot of technology has to be put in the exhaust pipe and fuel tank.

believe it or not it is just 30mph where the switch between air con and windows open takes place, although in the UK the speed limit for built up areas (urban areas) is 30mph, im not to sure about the speed limits in the USA.

I agree that the gap between the fuel economy in automatic and manual cars is changing, believe it or not the UK and USA cars are very different, about 50% of new cars sold in the UK are diesel whilst only around 2-3% are automatic, most are manual.

are most cars sold in the USA automatic? I hope they are because im moving there if they are! manual cars are so much harder to drive than automatics.

[Easy Bakes 253]

So why do the Mini Cooper's sold in the US only get 35MPG?

[newyorkrunaway1 110]

beacuse we dont have as strict regulations as other countries, and bmw can make them cheaper here and still sell them for a lot more

[Zelgadis 638]

Read a newspaper story today that announced that Ford is releasing a Ford Fusion Hybrid next year that will get 41MPG. That's better than most hybrids out there.

And careful about knocking hybrids.  The more practice the automakers have at making them, the more efficiently they can produce them.  They're still young. 

You'd have a hard time ever convincing me to buy a diesel.  I've never driven one that didn't sound and feel like a truck.  Driven the VW Jetta Diesel and a Mercedes Diesel.  Blech.  And the crap that comes out of the tailpipe.  Double blech. 

Perhaps diesels have been fixed to produce less CO2.  But how about the particulate matter that gasoline engines don't produce?  Difficult to make a filter for that since you'd be changing it all the time.  Frankly, I find it difficult to believe that anyone has found a way to make that sludgy mess that is diesel fuel less polluting than regular gasoline. 

Manual vs automatic.  True, very little fuel efficiency difference these days.  But manuals are nothing less than a blast to drive!  Especially if you get a good one.    Also gives you much greater control over the car, particularly in the snow. 

ISF

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: jammyare most cars sold in the USA automatic? I hope they are because im moving there if they are! manual cars are so much harder to drive than automatics.quote>

 

Yes they are, only  about 3% of cars sold here are manuals (mostly because Americans are lazy). This may change as clutchless manuals take hold, and of course CVTs (continuously variable transmission) are increasing too. Being stuck in stop-and-go traffic will sour anyone on a manual, especially the older GMs with a 'long-throw' clutch.

I prefer a manual (being a driving enthusiast), but the maintenance costs are higher, and they need more frequent service. A good auto trans will last the life of the car, a clutch will wear out several times over the life of the same car; how you drive will affect the exact life of a clutch. 

Also, due to the 2% 'slip' rate for an auto (power absorbed by the torque converter), the engines tend to last longer, as the shock to the drivetrain is reduced. Some people here in the US love 'monster' trucks, autos are recommended across the board for them for this very reason. The 'slip' is why an auto gets slightly less fuel economy than a manual, and are slightly slower to accelerate.

Edit: I gotta disagree, Duke. Cruise control increased my gas mileage more than 10% while crossing the US from WA state to Illinois, 2264 miles. Over 3 mountain ranges, and through the desolate flat wastelands of WY and NE, I averaged much better mileage than I had projected based on calculated mileage for the previous 6 months. And that was with over 1000lbs of extra weight, and 2 mattresses tied to the top of my van increasing drag coefficient. Cruise control exists because it's a fuel efficiency improvement. It doesn't involve the brakes at all, it simply controls engine speed via fuel air intake metering. [link]

And you should learn to drive a stick, it's great fun in general.

[hym 358]

Cruise control exists because it's a fuel efficiency improvement.quote>

Actually, it was developed because Ralph Teetor's lawyer couldn't drive at a steady speed and it annoyed Teetor to the point that he invented cruise control so he (Teetor) wouldn't have to deal non-uniform driving habits.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

LOL, you're right hym. I learned something new today!

I guess the efficiency improvement was just a fortunate coincidence. I had no idea the inventor was blind.

[jammy 0]

Easy Bakes - This is because the Mini Coopers get 35 miles per US gallon which is slightly different from the imperial gallon, 35mpg in the USA is equal to 42mpg in the UK.

Also the most frugal engines are nt available in the USA as they are not considered powerful enough, the 1 litre engine gets 52mpg but the 2 litre one sold in the USA only gets 42mpg

Zelgadis - If you had made the statements that you made in your post 10 years ago you will have being spot on. In fact governments in the EU encourage the use of diesel nowadays as Diesel in a lot of cases produces less particulate emissions than petrol engines, which are actually dirtier

The filter does not have to be cleaned because you have the wrong filter in mind. This filter mixes the exhaust fumes with chemicals which neutralizes them and makes them clean and do not damage the environment at all, apart from the C02 of course.

Try driving a much newer diesel and you wont feel like your in a truck at all.

Yes your manual comment is right, sports cars are far more fun to drive if they are manual but im talking about the average joe and sally who want a car to take them to work and school, and to the stores and so on..

manticorefan - wow thanks I had no idea that cruise control actually improved fuel efficiency! well that makes me want to pay the extra

[Zelgadis 638]

This begs the question that if it's possible to use that system to remove the massive amounts of particulate matter from diesel exhaust, then why can't they do the same for gasoline engines?  Weird...

Personally, I'm not particularly concerned for myself.  I drive so little that I fill up my tank on average once every 2 or 3 months.    And so far, I haven't yet driven a diesel that has the smooth power delivery that a gasoline engine has.  Canada is a problem too.  I know that diesels have systems that make the cars able to start in the winter, but it's not worth the hassle. 

ISF

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

And you should learn to drive a stick, it's great fun in general.

quote>

I may never have driven a stick but I've been a passenger in them. And no, it's not fun. There's that annoying jolt whenever you switch gears.

Besides, when I drive, I need to focus on the road. Not having to shift gears is one less thing I have to worry about and one less distraction with an automatic transmission, so I'm driving much more safely that way.

[Zelgadis 638]

Originally posted by: Duke87

I may never have driven a stick but I've been a passenger in them. And no, it's not fun. There's that annoying jolt whenever you switch gears.quote>

Then you were a passenger in a car whose driver didn't know how to drive a stick right. 

Besides, when I drive, I need to focus on the road. Not having to shift gears is one less thing I have to worry about and one less distraction with an automatic transmission, so I'm driving much more safely that way.quote>

At the beginning, yes.  But when you learn the stick and it becomes second nature to you, you'll find that you drive more safely with one.  You don't even think about it anymore; you just do it.  You're mind thinks "second" and there you are in second gear. 

ISF

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa