American Politics

[Meg 368]

Looks like Hillary Clinton could be headed to prison, Gives her plenty of time to plan her next campaign felons for change.

 

I'll be surprised if she goes to prison but this whole email thing is terminally stupid.

 

There are regulations in place about what records the government can maintain, can't maintain, is required to maintain, and is required to destroy.  It is not straightforward; it can get complicated.   The Government in the Sunshine Act was passed well before email existed.  Naturally, there has been a debate as to what constitutes an official email that needs to be retained and what doesn't. 

 

It is probable that whatever policy there is about email retention has a lot of gray areas.   It would have to.  Question is, is this a problem in the basic policy, a problem with how she followed it, or a hope that no one would really be paying attention.  I imagine it's a combination of all three.

 

Regardless, how could she not see this coming?   This is just stupidity at it's best, as the saying goes.

[Duke87 1,070]

Welcome to the world of a media that loves to do whatever it can to stir drama. So Hillary Clinton didn't save all of her emails. So what? How many of you save all of your emails? Unless there is something to suggest that certain emails were deliberately deleted with the intent of concealing something illicit (perhaps she needed a stained dress cleaned?), then to call this a tempest in a teapot is to put it lightly.

 

Now yes, there are rules about what you're supposed to save, but violating them is cause for a reprimand, not "zomg she could face jail time!!!!111one1".

[hym 358]

Welcome to the world of a media that loves to do whatever it can to stir drama. So Hillary Clinton didn't save all of her emails. So what? How many of you save all of your emails? Unless there is something to suggest that certain emails were deliberately deleted with the intent of concealing something illicit (perhaps she needed a stained dress cleaned?), then to call this a tempest in a teapot is to put it lightly.

 

Now yes, there are rules about what you're supposed to save, but violating them is cause for a reprimand, not "zomg she could face jail time!!!!111one1".

 

The problem some individuals are having is not that she didn't save all of her emails, but rather, she appears to have skirted or outright ignored rules and procedures put in place to ensure compliance with relevant law.  To borrow a quote from this article:

 

 

Had Clinton used a @state.gov email address, every email sent and received would have been archived in the State Department system. Clinton, who served from 2009 to 2013, has argued that her emails were archived in the system because she was in the habit of sending them to other government employees with .gov email addresses.

 

However, experts said this defense is insufficient. Under this practice, the State Department records management system would have captured emails from Clinton to a State Department employee, but it would not necessarily capture emails from Clinton to government employees in other departments or non-government employees, said John Wonderlich, policy director for the Sunlight Foundation, which advocates for government transparency.

 

Although they may contain the same individual emails, Clinton’s outbox and other employees’ inboxes are considered two separate records, which is important for locating the records in response to specific requests.

 

For example, even if Clinton had sent every email to individuals with state.gov or other federal agency addresses, that procedure would hamper State Department compliance with Freedom of Information Act requests for Clinton’s emails, said David Sobel, who directs a FOIA project at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital freedom advocacy group. It would not be apparent to agency personnel conducting the search that they would need to search the accounts of a myriad of employees to locate all of Clinton's emails, he said.

 

"In fact, State likely would have argued that it would be unreasonable to conduct such a far-reaching search," Sobel said.

 

In 2013, Gawker filed a FOIA request to the State Department for emails between Clinton and long-time adviser Sid Blumenthal after a hacker had revealed emails that Blumenthal sent Clinton. Although the emails were already known to the public, the State Department told Gawker that no such correspondence existed. Gawker believes this shows that Clinton was able to use her personal email to thwart the FOIA process.

 

"Using a personal email account exclusively is a potent prescription for flouting the Federal Records Act and circumventing the Freedom of Information Act," Metcalfe said. "And there can be little doubt that Clinton knew this full well."

 

In response to a State Department request last year, Clinton turned over 55,000 pages of emails and documents from her private email server, leaving out emails and documents that she said were of a personal nature, like wedding and funeral plans. She later said she deleted these personal emails.

 

Cox said the fact that Clinton’s staff -- rather than a State Department federal records officer -- chose which emails to destroy is "honestly breathtaking." Her private employees don’t have the authority to decide what does or doesn’t count as a federal record. Further, when she was making these choices, she was acting as a private citizen, not a government employee.

[Meg 368]

 

 

.

"Using a personal email account exclusively is a potent prescription for flouting the Federal Records Act and circumventing the Freedom of Information Act," Metcalfe said. "And there can be little doubt that Clinton knew this full well."

 

 

 

and that is the crux of the matter. This isn't a perception issue.  There are actual laws involved here.

 

 

Welcome to the world of a media that loves to do whatever it can to stir drama. So Hillary Clinton didn't save all of her emails. So what? How many of you save all of your emails? Unless there is something to suggest that certain emails were deliberately deleted with the intent of concealing something illicit (perhaps she needed a stained dress cleaned?), then to call this a tempest in a teapot is to put it lightly.

 

Now yes, there are rules about what you're supposed to save, but violating them is cause for a reprimand, not "zomg she could face jail time!!!!111one1".

 

I understand where you are coming from.   On one level, the whole thing looks silly.     But it's more complicated than it looks.

 

This article explains it better than I can.

[Sabretooth78 808]

Whoa.  A politician that doesn't abide by the laws they write, that we have to?

 

"I don't think we should be governing ourselves. What we need is a king, and every now and then if the king's not doing a good job, we kill him." - George Carlin

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

In our system even the Queen is not above the law.  Surely in this case the queen bee isn't either. 

 

I should think that democratic presidential hopefuls should be very encouraged now Hillary is removed from the pack. 

 

If misfeasance in office while secretary of state doesn't make her ineligible, I can't image what it would take.  If she is the democratic nominee then they ought to pick Monica Lewinsky as a running mate.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

There are now sufficient reasons that I have decided that I will never vote for Hilary Clinton if she runs for any position I have a say in (which will most likely be president). Depending on who the Republican running against her is, I might vote for a third party.

 

--Ocram

[Snugies 91]

oh Clinton just suddenly has some "political no no" did she?....me thinks you Americans is gone get another Bush shoved down your throats...so either the Bush family legacy must be healed, or ya'll gettin another round of terror. I mean screw it right its only the president of the United States its not like its a big deal...the Bushes deserve to be vindicated.     

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I would rather Gary Johnson or Will Romney over Jeb Bush.

--Ocram

[Meg 368]

oh Clinton just suddenly has some "political no no" did she?

 

 

I doubt she was a viable candidate nationally before this happened.  There are too many people who not only don't like her but think she is evil incarnate.   

 

We will eventually have a woman President.  But I don't see how it's going to be someone that a non-trivial part of the population actively hates.

 

 

me thinks you Americans is gone get another Bush shoved down your throats...so either the Bush family legacy must be healed, or ya'll gettin another round of terror. I mean screw it right its only the president of the United States its not like its a big deal...the Bushes deserve to be vindicated.     

 

Hopefully that won't be our only choice.   Hopefully we will get something better than the parade of clowns we saw last time.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Alas, I haven't been paying enough attention.  Who are the Democratic hopefuls?

[Duke87 1,070]

 

Congress felt strongly enough about the crime that it included the unusual provision that the perpetrator shall “forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.”

 

Aha! So of course now this is candy to the Republicans in congress since it could prevent her from ever becoming president. Welp.

 

Thanks for the article, though, Meg. It seems as though the scope of what Hillary Clinton did is greater than I was previously aware. She didn't just use a private account, she used it exclusively, and even went through the effort to host it on her own private server rather than using gmail or whatever. That... makes it look a lot more like a deliberate effort to conceal things.

 

But still. Investigate, prosecute as appropriate, and move on. This doesn't need to constantly be the top story.

[Larks2242 251]

Alas, I haven't been paying enough attention.  Who are the Democratic hopefuls?

 

Jim Webb and Joe Biden seem to be the most interested, John Kerry and Al Gore have had their names floated. 

[Meg 368]

 

Aha! So of course now this is candy to the Republicans in congress since it could prevent her from ever becoming president. Welp.

 

Thanks for the article, though, Meg. It seems as though the scope of what Hillary Clinton did is greater than I was previously aware. She didn't just use a private account, she used it exclusively, and even went through the effort to host it on her own private server rather than using gmail or whatever. That... makes it look a lot more like a deliberate effort to conceal things.

 

 

You're welcome.   The scope isn't immediately obvious until reading the laws.

 

 

 

But still. Investigate, prosecute as appropriate, and move on. This doesn't need to constantly be the top story.

 

 

I agree:  investigate, prosecute as appropriate and move on. 

 

It does get wearisome when they chew on a particular story like a bone especially when there is nothing new to say.    I suspect this will turn into a "who knew what and when did they know it" thing and it will go on for a while.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not looking forward to returning to this political nonsense this spring.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Spidey, if you can't take it, you can come and join is in the Canadian caucus race.  Our federal election will be over by the time you get back.  You can take a nice vacation in Banff while the American circus is on.

[Meg 368]

And the parade of clowns has already started.

 

Example:  Lindsey Graham, Senator from South Carolina

 

 

And here's the first thing I would do if I were president of the United States. I wouldn't let Congress leave town until we fix this. I would literally use the military to keep them in if I had to. We're not leaving town until we restore these defense cuts. We are not leaving town until we restore the intel cuts.

 

  Article with link   Audio link

 

There is this concept called "checks and balances".   The Executive Branch does not get to use the military to force the Legislative Branch to follow its agenda.  

 

According to his spokesman, these statements shouldn't be taken literally.    Never mind that he used the word "literally". 

 

The good news is, even people from his home state don't want him to be President.  [link]

 

 

 

[Snugies 91]

My interest in American politics is light, as I just follow it for its cheap entertainment value. Politics is of little value to me when western civilization has become nothing but a suffocating beached whale slowly gasping its last breaths looking around with its eyes as everybody comes slicing pieces of meat off of it for their own personal consumption. When our politicians have become nothing but cheap whores selling themselves out to the highest bidders foreign and domestic.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Since we are in bed with this elephant, Snugies my friend, it would behoove us to pay some attention as they slide down the slippery slope of indifference and general apathy into a police state or dictatorship of the plutocrats.

 

Of course, being from one of the have (have-not?) provinces you might find the wolves of bad government nipping at your heels out there in Oilopia.  Here in recently have-not Ontario, we are much more concerned with the Autopact and keeping what industry we still have at home.  Oh, and we still have a large number of closed Uranium mines in the Canadian shield.

[Duke87 1,070]

Again, the ever-growing thirst of the American public for drama reflects itself in politics. Washington DC is the stage for the nation's biggest hit reality TV show.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Reality or fantasy/fiction?  Does anyone in the mushroom farm know what's really going on?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

First, the worst?

 

The Republicans must be desperate.

[Meg 368]

I would really like to see the next Presidential race be something other than Bush vs Clinton.     I would really like both parties to come up with a candidate who is nationally viable.   At this point in time, I am not optimistic that either party will be able to do that.

 

Ted Cruz is a "Tea Party favorite".  I will be surprised if a tea party candidate can win a national election.

 

But my favorite bit about Cruz is this:

 

. . . he was born in Canada — Calgary, Alta., in fact — to an American mother and a Cuban-born father. His heritage made Cruz a dual citizen at birth. Under U.S. law, being born to an American mother automatically gives you American citizenship, while being born on Canadian soil makes you a Canadian.

 

Really?   Being born to an American mother automatically gives you American citizenship?    What, exactly, were the birthers fussing about?

[cmdp123789 710]

I would really like to see the next Presidential race be something other than Bush vs Clinton.     I would really like both parties to come up with a candidate who is nationally viable.   At this point in time, I am not optimistic that either party will be able to do that.

 

Ted Cruz is a "Tea Party favorite".  I will be surprised if a tea party candidate can win a national election.

 

But my favorite bit about Cruz is this:

 

 

 

. . . he was born in Canada — Calgary, Alta., in fact — to an American mother and a Cuban-born father. His heritage made Cruz a dual citizen at birth. Under U.S. law, being born to an American mother automatically gives you American citizenship, while being born on Canadian soil makes you a Canadian.

 

Really?   Being born to an American mother automatically gives you American citizenship?    What, exactly, were the birthers fussing about?

Politics.. 

[LexusInfernus 908]

Really?   Being born to an American mother automatically gives you American citizenship?    What, exactly, were the birthers fussing about?

What do you think? I mean, they can't just go out and say 'Why the hell did America vote a liberal n-word into the White House!?' even though that was exactly what they were thinking and what they were mad about. 

 

So they had to come up with some pathetic excuse to throw their temper tantrum instead, without appearing like backward racists. They only partly succeeded. 

[Larks2242 251]

Really?   Being born to an American mother automatically gives you American citizenship?    What, exactly, were the birthers fussing about?

 

John McCain was born in Panama, that was never an issue as his parents had American citizenship as well.

 

Looks like he really is ready to announce his run, I can't wait, this brings new energy and a much needed new direction to the race.

[hym 358]

Ted Cruz is unelectable. He is to many non-Tea Party individuals what Hillary Clinton is to many non-Democrats: the living embodiment of everything that is wrong with this country.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Maybe in the general elections. But the primaries are always filled with the more radical fringes of both parties, and they have no problem with voting for people like Cruz. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, folks, its your country.  I truly hope you can do better than Ted Cruz or Hillary Clinton.  The cynicism surrounding elections in the U.S. is so strong.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I will most likely "throw away my vote" to a third party if the choices are Bush or Cruz and Clinton. I didn't think Cruz could be president since he was born in Canada.

--Ocram