!OIL!

[jammy 0]

But the thing is all the 'lil african children'as you put it would beenfit more, as you would, and as asia would if only the 20 trillion barrels of oil underneath America was utilized, that would mean more money, more freedom and happiess for everyone, you would be able to drive your SUV at a slightly higher speed, I can look forward to learning to drive and not pay $20 a gallon on fuel or however much it will be in the future, and as the world will be far richer those kids and there families will be able to recieve beter family planning, more money to buy food as the price of gas wont cripple there economies which are desperately trying to devellop themselves, I wont let down my argument that the 20 trillion barrels need to be used.

It WILL help in so many ways

[Gridlock 9]

Hopefully they can find away to efficiently extract the energy from shale oil , although recycled phone books would potentialy, pound for pound in weight provide 4 x more energy , the oil from shale , provide much less energy pound for pound than crude .

No nation to date ever produced more than 16000 barrels of oil /day from shale oil , US demands nearly 21 million barrels a day .

$20 a gallon isnt to bad , as im paying over half that amount now .

20 trillion my sources quote 2.2 -1.8 trillion , with only 800 billion being potentialy recoverable , requiring 6 barrels of water for every barrel of oil in one of the dryest parts of the usa .

I hope things dont get that bad where they have little chioce but try squeeze blood from a stone.

Give it a little more time , hopefully oil should balance $118-$125 a barrel .

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: jammy But the thing is all the 'lil african children'as you put it would beenfit more, as you would, and as asia would if only the 20 trillion barrels of oil underneath America was utilized, that would mean more money, more freedom and happiess for everyone, you would be able to drive your SUV at a slightly higher speed, I can look forward to learning to drive and not pay $20 a gallon on fuel or however much it will be in the future, and as the world will be far richer those kids and there families will be able to recieve beter family planning, more money to buy food as the price of gas wont cripple there economies which are desperately trying to devellop themselves, I wont let down my argument that the 20 trillion barrels need to be used.

It WILL help in so many waysquote>

Your views are very Idealistic and naive. Last time I checked, greed didn't equal happiness... infact... the more greed, the more poverty... unless you are willing to make sure the Oil companies send 99% of its profits to the Government to spend on Schools, Hospitals and international Aid to the countries ruined by Western (not just US) exploitation. Even domestically, I doubt a normal working person would see much of a rise in pay... the average US CEO makes 411 times the Salary of his blue collar workers; key word here is 'AVERAGE'... your average American CEO doesn't own a Giant Oil Company so I can only think that the Salary for them is unimaginably higher. Economically the world will be Richer... but who's hands in the money in? Is it the Governments? No, they just skim abit off the profits and then punish everybody else with crippling fuel taxes... thats not profit money, thats Tax money, thats YOUR money, not Oil Company money.

But I think the Oil prices right now are pretty fair, and thats coming from somebody who pays $11.50 a Gallon (UK... most of it is Tax). If you feel your paying too much for fuel, maybe you need a more economical car. A car is a freaking car... it should be used to get you from A to B, no more, no less. I get 60-70 mile in my car on abit less than 2 Gallons... no, I don't drive a Hybrid, Hybrids are a scam, they use no more than your average European car. 4x4 's in my oppinion, shouldn't be used outside of rural area's... using an SUV/4X4 in an Urban area is like using the QE2 to cross a stream. Yes it gets you there, but your missing the point of having one in the first place.

[frdrcklim 139]

You know the solution to that isn't by extracting more oil, but to make more efficient machines. More mileage for cars, uhhh... a PC computer that could run on a 3 volt battery and many more.

Take for example the Hydrogen car from Honda. If all US citizens used that, perhaps oil prices would go down to maybe (I'm not an analyst) $40 or even back to its prices in 2003. I just Honda could mass produce their car quicker. A release in 3 years might be a little too late.

[Albatross Domain 2]

The only problem with that... the exploration of oil on the coasts of the US, would not be available for 5-10 or 15 yrs. Just ask Brazil, that had just discovered an oil field off its coast, that has more in reserves than anybody except Saudi Arabia. Russia too, is going to be in the running soon, and not just with gas, but w/ Natural Gas, Propane, Kerosene (K-1), and worse yet, Diesel they're trying to push BP out, (if they don't pay their prices or their cut.) Those 5 main oil barons here in the US, Do Not want to tap into their own backyard... even though our Gov't alotted them over 30M Acres, that has yet to be explored.

[RJ11 0]

Originally posted by: jammy Hey

Right this is stupid, oil prices are nearing $140 a barrel (£80) and there is talk that we will soon bw running out of oil, there is currently just under 1 trillion barrels of oil left in the world, Saudi Arabia 1/5 of it, but is this true   NO!

There are actually 3 trillion barrels of oil on the planet, that is how much oil has ever been extracted, and guess who has the most oil, the USA, 

In the Green River Region which is in the Colorado-Wyoming-Utah area there are large deposits of Shale Oil. This is basically oil which has not quite formed yet, it is still in the process of changing from sedimentry rock deposits into crude oil.

On top of this find the calculations are wrong, due to the density of this unformed oil you can get an amazing 2 million barrels of crude oil from one acre of this land, there are 16,000 sq miles of this oil shale and as each square mile contains 640sq miles this means . . . . . 

There are 640 qcres in a sq mile; 16,000 sq miles = 10,240,000 acres. 10,250,000 x 2,000,000 barrels per acre = 20,480,000,000,000 (20 trillion barrels!!! !!! !!!)

^^(this information obtained from www.oilcrisis.com/shale/) 

So, in my opinion, we should not have an oil problem we just need to allow the extraction of this, obviously there is a process involved for turning the shale oil into light sweet crude oil but $20 a barrel will be profitable! 

Oh, and by the way, 20 trillion barrels would meet current US demand for oil for .. 2647 years!!

I SEE OIL MANIA !

quote>

Seeing how people are on here, I agree with you and all I do believe we need to start drilling NOW!

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Gridlock

$20 a gallon isnt to bad , as im paying over half that amount now .quote>

$20 a gallon is a problem for the US economy.  In some parts of the country, $4 gas is already higher than what the residents can financially tolerate.  The restaurant I work at already charges basically $10 for an adult meal, and due to the fuel cost, needs to raise the cost to about $11.50 per head.  Problem is, they can't do that or people would quit coming.  If the cost of gas gets much higher, they either have to get people to pay more money to eat (which is questionable), kill the quality of the food and service (and our paychecks), or close the place.  Considering that the price of gas is sending up the price of everything else we pay for, I sort of doubt $20 gas "isn't too bad."

[Fresh Prince of Wmbg 44]

I'm all drilling for oil here at home, but we should use those reserves to temperary lower the gas prices for now while begin to transiton into using "altnerate fuels".That way, we solve the raising gas prices problem and at the same time we begin to turn away from our addiction to the that polluting, awful-smelling, homogenous liquid.

[beebs 129]

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: Gridlock

$20 a gallon isnt to bad , as im paying over half that amount now .quote>

$20 a gallon is a problem for the US economy.  In some parts of the country, $4 gas is already higher than what the residents can financially tolerate.  The restaurant I work at already charges basically $10 for an adult meal, and due to the fuel cost, needs to raise the cost to about $11.50 per head.  Problem is, they can't do that or people would quit coming.  If the cost of gas gets much higher, they either have to get people to pay more money to eat (which is questionable), kill the quality of the food and service (and our paychecks), or close the place.  Considering that the price of gas is sending up the price of everything else we pay for, I sort of doubt $20 gas "isn't too bad."quote>

Considering many parts of the world have had gas prices above $4/gallon for a few years now without falling into shambles, I'm sure America will find ways to cope.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: beebs

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: Gridlock

$20 a gallon isnt to bad , as im paying over half that amount now .quote>

$20 a gallon is a problem for the US economy.  In some parts of the country, $4 gas is already higher than what the residents can financially tolerate.  The restaurant I work at already charges basically $10 for an adult meal, and due to the fuel cost, needs to raise the cost to about $11.50 per head.  Problem is, they can't do that or people would quit coming.  If the cost of gas gets much higher, they either have to get people to pay more money to eat (which is questionable), kill the quality of the food and service (and our paychecks), or close the place.  Considering that the price of gas is sending up the price of everything else we pay for, I sort of doubt $20 gas "isn't too bad."quote>

Considering many parts of the world have had gas prices above $4/gallon for a few years now without falling into shambles, I'm sure America will find ways to cope.quote>

Many parts of the world also don't use fuel to the same extent that the United States does.

[spectrumtech 15]

The problem is not the oil.  The problem parks its liberal fat ass in Congress and whines to no bloody end about how drilling is bad, everyone should give up their cars, ride public transportation, and Earth will be a bloody utopia.  Let me ask you, how many of those congressmen, lobbyists, and various Democrats actually didn't drive their car on "Spare the Air Day"?  How many didn't run their air conditioners?  None.  Bloody hypocrites.  Then we have Al Gore, who is a WHOLE other problem.  He preaches that cars are bad, oil is bad, we are killing the environment.  HE HAS A BLOODY PRIVATE JET!  Also, he owns 12 Cadillac Escalades with an estimated mileage of... 12.  He owns shares in a freakin' oil field, for god's sake!  I consider myself a fairly conservative person.  I will admit that many Republicans have done things that weren't in the best interests of this country or this world.  I am an environmentalist.  I like my blue sky, clear rivers, and pristine national parks.  But aren't we carrying this a bit too far?  So freakin what if the drilling for oil disturbs the flight path of a few migratory birds?  God Forbid!  This country as a whole needs oil to run, and by preventing that, environmentalists are killing this country.

Solution:

-Drill for oil in Anwar and any other place we can.

-Pass less stringent laws on pollution so our economy can flourish.

-Quit being a bunch of whiny do-gooder wannabes.

Thank you for listening to my rant.

Standby to resume our regular programming in 3..2..1...

[fukuda 351]

we are driving ourselves to economic disaster PLEASE pump more oil for now.quote>

we are driving ourselves to economic disaster with or without oil, the only differing thing is when

it'll happen

Goverments should step in to regulate the costquote>

They can't

What are the oil companies doing with the extra $70 a barrel ?, probably just buying oil with it

..quote>

As I stated somewhere else in this thread, drilling oil is becoming very expensive. Not only that,

designing, testing and opwerating the new processes to retreat the bad quality oil that is still easy

to drill also costs quite a lot of money.

I hope we can find suitable alternative sources of energy then the oil companies can go eat

socks.quote>

They'll never go eating socks, oil has tons of other applications than no other raw material could

never provide. They produce way more things than fuel, look around you in your house, the major part

of the things you'll see are made of or have parts made of oil products.

The days of cheap oil are over , but not for the oil companies they still extract at around a $1 a

barrel .quote>

Oil companies explore, extract, transport, distill, treat and retransport oil

The earth looses around 12 million tonnes a day of mass due to oil extraction x 365 x 100 years ++

,must be quite a lot lighter than it used to be .quote>

the earth is waaaaay more heavy (and bigger) than what usuallly people think, 12 millions of tonnes a

day is nothing

I mean, of course there is blatant speculation, like in tons more of markets, but it's not only the

speculators fault

You know the solution to that isn't by extracting more oil, but to make more efficient machines.

More mileage for cars, uhhh... a PC computer that could run on a 3 volt battery and many more.

quote>

There's a thing in thermodynamics called Carnot Engine

[owenluby 1]

In reality, oil represents wealth and prosperity. This is all fine and good, but it comes at the expense of the earth! I don't like it when people shun this notion, because the earth is a greater power than any person on it!

I also agree that we will have to use oil for the next 20 or so years, but if we're not developing other technologies and energy sources, we're doomed!

[Gridlock 9]

Doomed ,lmao well we certainly doomed if they remove 120 mill tonnes to much one day the earth gets dragged in by the suns gravity , be like throwing a tomato into a bonfire . Earth is but a mere speck of dust in a much larger environment .

Im not doomed , well maybe with the tomato scenario , but id revert to ox and plough , animal husbandry , trade and barter if i had to .Im pretty good at civ , we d be a great civilisation .

On a serious note , i believe much of the  world has just entered a period of hyperinflation , all the evidence is there , supported by the fact that  you could still purchase a gallon of oil today for the same weight of gold as you could in 1930 s  .

[hawkpride147 1]

what i want to know is why last i heard, oil was $0.17/gal in Venezuela and here in the US, it's $4.00/gal...

[jammy 0]

People have mixed opinions and I just want to sum up all the thing I have said...

You should drill the 20 TRILLION barrels of oil in the USA, I am not saying the world will use all of that oil but for now we need it for money

When we have that money pumping into our economies we can invest billions in new renewable developments and slowly but surely kerb our use of oil

Im not saying this kerbage of the use of oil will happen quickly, it will happen later in the lives of younger people.

Yes we NEED to develop the hydrogen engine, this is a global problem, somebody comes up with something amazing and then they sit in there buts watching everyone be amazed by their inverntion just to say actually, we are not doing this anymore.

It may not be something we want to admit but oil controls the world economy right now and without, we weill have anothery hell 1930s economy hell on our hands.

Also Africa and Asia are desperate to develop, Asia needs the oil, although China has a lot of shale oil itself and as China is such are driving willing nation I can imagine they will start the drilling berfore the US gets over all the red tape they have to face.

Australia also has lots of the stuff which could mean they become as energy efficient as the USA would if they drilled there own oil. This would mean there is loads left for Europe and Africa, Europe already does a lot to stop global warming, the UKs CO2 emissions have actually been falling for the past few years but we still use the same amount of oil, we just have built new wind turbines, educated people about turning lights off etc etc.

South America is also developing quickly, they have a lot of Oil which is one of the reasons why they are.

And has hawkpride147 asked, why is Venezuala as so cheap it is because they produce there own oil, and lots of it, Saudi Arabia only pay 14 cents per gallon etc. If the USA did develop its crude oil industry then the gas in America would fall, even if you had a $2 a gallon green tax on fuel to invest in green energy resources that would mean the price of a gallon could be $2.17 per gallon That WOULD be good

Oil controls the economy and probably will for the next 30-50 years or so

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: hawkpride147

what i want to know is why last i heard, oil was $0.17/gal in Venezuela and here in the US, it's $4.00/gal...quote>

Originally posted by: jammy

And has hawkpride147 asked, why is Venezuala as so cheap it is because they produce there own oil, and lots of it, Saudi Arabia only pay 14 cents per gallon etc.quote>

Sure you really wanna know why it's so cheap? It's called subsidies (look it up), and you pay for it. It's one easy way for the rulers to stay in power, quite similar to the Roman emperors bread and circus.

Now, I know it's easy to be blind by just looking at their prices, so here's what you do: An Islamic republic is probably not what people in the US wants, so you need an oppressive socialist regime. Thing is, this pary you're voting for does not only have to be oppressive and socialist, it also needs a charismatic leader keen to show the Big Satan how it works when the common people should be allowed to tip their straw into the Trasury's coffers. Which will be hard, as you'll need another Big Satan...

And on the prices: Oil is sold on the world market. Except for regimes that's keen on nationalising, all goes on the exchange, where everybody that buy and sell in any given amount of time pay the same. Norway, Denmark and Great Britian all has reserves in the North Sea; none of them gets subsidised oil from their governments. In fact, they're taxed just a bit more than everyone else. While it might be a popular move among ordinary Americans to go socialist to get cheaper oil, do anyone here thinks that that will actually happen?

[Patricius Maximus 236]

$4 a gallon is not crippling to the US/Canadian economy. But some poorer groups can't afford it anymore. Personally, I can financially tolerate more than that due to driving habits and my car mileage.

However, when people in the USA see a $4 reading on a pump, that shocks them into changing their consumption habits. Which is good.

Using oil is a no-win scenario. Two things can happen.

Either the oil supply runs out and the price spikes (which is what it is doing now)
Or the pollution from the oil consumption causes climate change and global disruption.

Either way, Humans lose. So it is a good thing supply got us before climate change did.

In order to eliminate dependence on oil, a new mega-project must be initiated to replace oil power with hydrogen fuel cells for care, solar panels for homes, and fusion reactors for industry.

We must move beyond oil, and we certainly can. All it takes is will and motivation to get it started.

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: jammy

And has hawkpride147 asked, why is Venezuala as so cheap it is because they produce there own oil, and lots of it, Saudi Arabia only pay 14 cents per gallon etc.quote>

An average Venezualan worker earns about $4 per hour and the cost of living is soaring. Oil needs to be cheap so the people can acctually afford it... if your Charging $11 a Gallon for fuel like they do here in the UK, then you will have a serious problem and your country won't be able to function because its the workers that make it happen, its the guy on the shop-floor that won't be able to make it to work in a morning to work for the pittance they call a wage since he simply cannot afford the cost of Fuel. Besides, Venezualan Oil is State Owned, unlike most oil companies... or like any company for that matter, they do not work purely for profit. Same thing applies to Saudi Arabia also, Aramco is state owed. The OPEC Price rises they enforced on the rest of the world in the 70's lead to a massive economic slump, but the price rises don't have any effect in Saudi Arabia because its the largest Oil producer in OPEC and therefor have the most control.

[jammy 0]

Patricius Maximus - Yeh because of course a massive hydrogen fuel cell project is within our funds right now!

A hydrogen car project as the stock are tumbling and the world is heading for economic ruin is a no go area, yeh we can slowly start to shift toward hydrogen but going cold turkey on our use of oil, which rising meansd inflation goes up meaning the cost of foord, oil, clothing and everything goes up whilst the housing markets self destruct themselves.

Yes oil is bad, yes its polluting but we can make it cheap and its plentiful and reliable so whilst the relatively new economic structure of the world is still young it is our only answer. Im afraid.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: Gridlock

The earth looses around 12 million tonnes a day of mass due to oil extraction x 365 x 100 years ++ ,must be quite a lot lighter than it used to be .quote>

Thing of it is, 12 million tonnes of oil removed from the ground does not equate to 12 million tonnes subtracted from the Earth's mass. It in fact equates to exactly zero mass subtracted from the Earth. Because, you know, when it's sitting in tanks in cars and barrels on the ground, in the greater scheme of thing's that's still part of the Earth's mass. And when it's burned and becomes carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, that's also still part of the Earth's mass. Only way to actually remove mass from the Earth is to blast it off into space. So we have lost a little mass from those probes and things we've sent out.... and we've also gained some mass from meteors that routinely come out way. But it's negligible compared to the mass of the earth.

Consider this. 12 million tonnes is 1.2×10¹⁰ kg. You know what the mass of the Earth is? 5.9736×10²⁴ kg. 100 trillion times that. Removing 12 million tonnes from the Earth is like scratching dandruff off your head. Not even, actually.

[saltandsauce 0]

no it means that 1 of two things happen if oil becomes incredibly expensive

1, a MASSIVE drop in the standard of living, mass abandonment of the suburbs, trading plummets and we live in the dark at night and starvation takes some people

or

2, we pour tonnes of money into "renewables" and cover the world with wind turbines and solar panels ( the average wind turbine can barely power an electric kettle the same with solar) and convert all our farmland for biofuel production and we all starve to death in one year

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: El Burro

no, I don't drive a Hybrid, Hybrids are a scam, they use no more than your average European car. quote>

How are hybrids a scam?   Keep in mind that buying most European cars is not one of my options.  My friends in England drive cars I've never heard of.

I bought my hybrid 4 years ago.  I didn't pay sales tax (savings of over $1,100); I got a tax break (another $2,000) and have saved over $3,700 in gas so far.  and now, 46,000 miles later, I could sell the car for over 75% of it's original value.   and it's low emission so I'm exempt from regular emissions testing.

Where, exactly, am I being scammed?  I am honestly not aware of a better option that was available to me.

4x4 's in my oppinion, shouldn't be used outside of rural area's... using an SUV/4X4 in an Urban area is like using the QE2 to cross a stream. Yes it gets you there, but your missing the point of having one in the first place. quote>

I agree with you there.  I'd like to keep them out of cities.  At least the huge honking ones.  The smaller SUVs aren't so bad.

[jammy 0]

I like SUVs and even here in england we dont get big ones, like Honda CRVs and BMW X5s are considered as massive huge cars here, but hybrid cars are definately worth it, they save energy full stop so why complain. Back to the point PUMP MORE OIL

[beebs 129]

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: beebs

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: Gridlock

$20 a gallon isnt to bad , as im paying over half that amount now .quote>

$20 a gallon is a problem for the US economy.  In some parts of the country, $4 gas is already higher than what the residents can financially tolerate.  The restaurant I work at already charges basically $10 for an adult meal, and due to the fuel cost, needs to raise the cost to about $11.50 per head.  Problem is, they can't do that or people would quit coming.  If the cost of gas gets much higher, they either have to get people to pay more money to eat (which is questionable), kill the quality of the food and service (and our paychecks), or close the place.  Considering that the price of gas is sending up the price of everything else we pay for, I sort of doubt $20 gas "isn't too bad."quote>

Considering many parts of the world have had gas prices above $4/gallon for a few years now without falling into shambles, I'm sure America will find ways to cope.quote>

Many parts of the world also don't use fuel to the same extent that the United States does.quote>

In total volume no but comparably, I'm sure most of Europe and Canada are very close to the US. Of course, lower income families will be forced to rely on mass transit and other such ways of getting places.. but owning a car is not a right. It's a luxury.

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: beebs

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: beebs

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: Gridlock

$20 a gallon isnt to bad , as im paying over half that amount now .quote>

$20 a gallon is a problem for the US economy.  In some parts of the country, $4 gas is already higher than what the residents can financially tolerate.  The restaurant I work at already charges basically $10 for an adult meal, and due to the fuel cost, needs to raise the cost to about $11.50 per head.  Problem is, they can't do that or people would quit coming.  If the cost of gas gets much higher, they either have to get people to pay more money to eat (which is questionable), kill the quality of the food and service (and our paychecks), or close the place.  Considering that the price of gas is sending up the price of everything else we pay for, I sort of doubt $20 gas "isn't too bad."quote>

Considering many parts of the world have had gas prices above $4/gallon for a few years now without falling into shambles, I'm sure America will find ways to cope.quote>

Many parts of the world also don't use fuel to the same extent that the United States does.quote>

In total volume no but comparably, I'm sure most of Europe and Canada are very close to the US. Of course, lower income families will be forced to rely on mass transit and other such ways of getting places.. but owning a car is not a right. It's a luxury.quote>

Totally agreed, I have a third hand car, but I don't use it ususally, it's too expensive , and mass transit is well organized

[BurroDiablo 222]

From here

By US standards, sure, these may be good MPG's to be getting, but outside the US, these are the same as any ordinary car. I hate telling people what to do, but the US really needs to understand the fact that cars don't need hybrid technology to reduce emissions... now car manufacturers are pouring money into Hybrid production and forgetting about researching into completely cutting off the need for Oil altogether.

Scamming however... well, it depends why you bought the Hybrid. If it was cheaper than most, then yeah, you probably not being scammed. Same goes for buying purely for aesthetics. If you bought it because you thought this wonderful new technology may make a difference to the environment however, then you fell into the marketing trap. They always over estimate the MPG... they say 50, its gonna be more like 35... you still burn fuel and you still get below average MPG, somehow, I don't see the point of going through all that trouble, except to increase sales of cars to Ecofreak demographic.

However, as I stop foaming at the mouth, its nice to see the Federal Government giving people with Hybrids Tax breaks and such. If you can't get Euro cars, EPA won't regulate emissions and US car manufacturers continue to make gas guzzlers... its probably the best thing for the US to be introduced to a Hybrid generation... it'll certainly make more difference in the US than most other places around the world.

[jammy 0]

beebs, you said that owning a car was a luxury not a right. In my believe owning a car in a poor country is a luxury but in the western world owning a car is so important and so the norm that not owning a car is considered bizarre. If you dont like it its a shame but I am procar and love cars, oil is plentiful and should be cheap, the environment is NOT running to disaster but that is a different argument for a different thread. We need Hydrogen technology to gradually replaceoil over around 5o years but oil is the blood of life and we NEEED oil not want it right now.

changing from oil to hydrogen will take around 50 years though, it will give the oil fuelled economy time to become wealthy enough to allow the conversion to hydrogen and then when this change to hydrogen happens the economy will probably grow at an unpresidented amount, by this I mean the GLOBAL ECONOMY.

[Gridlock 9]

Originally posted by: Duke87

Originally posted by: Gridlock

The earth looses around 12 million tonnes a day of mass due to oil extraction x 365 x 100 years ++ ,must be quite a lot lighter than it used to be .quote>

Thing of it is, 12 million tonnes of oil removed from the ground does not equate to 12 million tonnes subtracted from the Earth's mass. It in fact equates to exactly zero mass subtracted from the Earth. Because, you know, when it's sitting in tanks in cars and barrels on the ground, in the greater scheme of thing's that's still part of the Earth's mass. And when it's burned and becomes carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, that's also still part of the Earth's mass. Only way to actually remove mass from the Earth is to blast it off into space. So we have lost a little mass from those probes and things we've sent out.... and we've also gained some mass from meteors that routinely come out way. But it's negligible compared to the mass of the earth.

Consider this. 12 million tonnes is 1.2×10¹⁰ kg. You know what the mass of the Earth is? 5.9736×10²⁴ kg. 100 trillion times that. Removing 12 million tonnes from the Earth is like scratching dandruff off your head. Not even, actually.quote>

If matter is positive energy,and spacetime is charged with positive energy from the matters energy that collapsed into a blackhole,gravity would attract energy from spacetime.Matter could use this energy to produce an electromagnetic field.This would also mean that gravity is not a force that acts between to bodies of mass but the energy in spacetime around the mass itself.Instead of a masses gravity attracting a smaller body of mass to it,it would be pulling energy toward it from spacetime creating current of energy flowing pasted the other mass.the smaller mass is gravitationally attracted to spacetime itself too.So the smaller masses attraction to the flow of energy being drawn in by the bigger mass will begin to move it toward it.Same on earth.Your not attracted to to earth itself.When you jump in the air.Your attraction to the motion of spacetime energy travelling toward the earth pulls you back down.Thus relativity is satified.

So if gravity is not a force that acts between to bodies of mass,only spacetime.The curviture of spacetime around a mass is because the mass is just a big super energy magnet sucking energy toward it at a constant rate.So spacetime is curved by the pulling of the energy in.this makes time slow down,because spacetime is depleated of energy in local areas,until the energy fills back in from farther away.So like i said the smaller mass like the earth to the sun,is mutually attracted to the motion of spacetime around it,but at these distances does'nt have the ability to force it into motion.Because its the masses gravity,the charge of spacetime that energy is attracted to,plus the motion of the energy itself,that have to be taken into account.so the motion of the planets is caused by the spiralling motion of spacetime energy moving around the planet,spinning it like a top into motion,making it spin on its axis and around the sun at the same time!

We all heard the term  "The feather that broke the Camals back " .  Well i guess the oppersite is true here .

 

So id guess the 5.9736x1024 kg  plays a pretty important role in this equation . Obviously its enough as we are still here , remove a feather ,or the dandruff from your head to much and we fly off into space .  I d guess the universe is not that finely balanced , but for sure enough loss of earths mass could be enough to set this scenario in motion .

I dont seriously believe this is ever going to happen , but it is food for thought ,lol

 

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: El Burro From here

. . . now car manufacturers are pouring money into Hybrid production and forgetting about researching into completely cutting off the need for Oil altogether.  quote>

I'm all for researching into completely cutting off the need for oil altogether.   but that wasn't one of my options when I was car shopping.

They always over estimate the MPG... they say 50, its gonna be more like 35.. quote>

Actually, they said 60 and it's usually between 45 and 50.  But that's twice what my previous did so I'll be happy to take it.

However, as I stop foaming at the mouth, its nice to see the Federal Government giving people with Hybrids Tax breaks and such. quote>

I thought it was a cool deal.  Still do.  The customer satisfaction surveys showed that the 2004 Prius had the highest rating ever.  I believe it.

If you can't get Euro cars, EPA won't regulate emissions and US car manufacturers continue to make gas guzzlers... its probably the best thing for the US to be introduced to a Hybrid generation... it'll certainly make more difference in the US than most other places around the world.quote>

Exactly.  It's the best option currently available.  (and, if every American drove a hybrid car, we could change our Middle East policy.  but let's not go there.)

Part of the problem with selling many of the European cars here is they are perceived as too small to share the road with 18-wheelers.   Way back, there was this car (I think it was called the Colt) that was being pitched as a small, efficient, European-type model.  Problem was, if you drove one of these things on the highway and an 18-wheeler happened to pass you, it would spin you around in circles.  The car simply did not have enough mass to share the road with the big rigs.  and we have to share the road with the tractor-trailers.

It would be interesting to see some statistical comparisons to the typical American 18 wheeler and the typical British lorry.  The ones I saw looked quite small to me.  But then, they didn't have that far to go.