NAM General Discussion Thread

[qurlix 20]

Unfortunately, it's impossible to differentiate from going from Road to One-Way and from One-Way to Road, so the one tile does both jobs. Cars may occaisonally spawn on the 'non-existing' route, but fixing ths would be near impossible. project code = [owtr]

I was wondering if anyone was interested in an improvement to the el-rail system. What I'm talking about is allowing roads to run paralell to the light rail while directly underneath. I've been working on this recently, and the only problem I can see is that you couldn't have a station with the road still there. I've seen this done in reality in NY and Chicago. Should I continue or was it already suggested and never done/deemed impossible? project code = [ropr]


Tropod: I was just saying that there was still lots I didn't understand, but I suppose a little more learning couln't hurt...

<-(well what did you expect me to put there?)

[ardecila 124]

It hasn't been deemed impossible. Tropod did it with regular rail. Would the two networks integrate, or would elevated always have road beneath it? Or are you using a puzzle-piece method?

Stations wouldn't be possible, I don't think, because they would have to be plopped on the rail. We can create the illusion of stations using an overhanging station on a lot that sits to the side.

[Tropod 144]

Date:10/1/2004 10:54:25 PM
Author:qurlix
I was wondering if anyone was interested in an improvement to the el-rail system.  What I'm talking about is allowing roads to run paralell to the light rail while directly underneath.  I've been working on this recently, and the only problem I can see is that you couldn't have a station with the road still there.  I've seen this done in reality in NY and Chicago.  Should I continue or was it already suggested and never done/deemed impossible?  project code = [ropr]

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It's.............a few pages back

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself, gotta keep my sanity somehow .

Yeah, what you're asking for, has been tested (for) with some aspects (i.e it is indeed possible). No matter how or which way it's done though, it has its issues to contend with, some bigger than others.

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 10/1/2004 10:54:25 PM
Author: qurlix

I was wondering if anyone was interested in an improvement to the el-rail system. What I'm talking about is allowing roads to run paralell to the light rail while directly underneath. I've been working on this recently, and the only problem I can see is that you couldn't have a station with the road still there. I've seen this done in reality in NY and Chicago. Should I continue or was it already suggested and never done/deemed impossible? project code = [ropr]

quote>

I have wondered this and pondered it many times, under many different sleep deprivation levels....

Basically it is possible, and feasible. However, to make the workload doable, you have to live with a few shortcomings that may make it not worth it:

You have to limit it to straight orthagonal and diagonal pieces. You also have to have the elrail turn into/out of the road when the road is going straight, or vice verse, having the road turn into or away from a straight elrail. You can't intersect the road underneath the elrail with any other network.

With a LOT more work, it is possible to allow road/road intersections underneath straight eltrain tracks, and eltrain/eltrain intersections over straight roadways. However, this multiplies the workload by a factor of about 30.

The biggest drawback is no other networks would be able to cross this 'road-eltrain' combined network. The drawing engine simply can't handle more than two networks occupying the same tile, so it returns a red draw.



IF you made them puzzle pieces, and essentially called them part of one or the other network, then it would be possible to cross it with other networks, and it might be possible to have intersections with other networks below repaired by override rules. However, at this point, you are literally talking about somewhere between 800 and 2000 s3d network tiles, along with RULes and paths....and these rules are harder than interchange rules in my opinion.

Anotherwords, if you wanted to make it very extensive, it would be the same ammount of work as making about 50 new interchanges. If you want to make it very limited in its usability, it's feasible to do, but will it be useful? Who knows [:0]....It's always a good thought experiment though .

[Tropod 144]

I'm thinking, maybe some more experimentation could be had with some of those RULs, especially the IntersectionOrdering. I wonder how much of the Pre-RH format of that file would still be useable & applicable at all .

[qurlix 20]

I don't mind the shortcomings, I was just thinking about having all variations of [ direct paralell, a road left/right turn out, a road T 1-out, a T 2-out, and a road end ].

Each of these and rotations:

02000000,02000000
02000000,02000200
02000000,00000200 (one side road)

02000200,02000000
02000200,02000200
02000200,00000200 (standard light over road pieces) *see image below

02020000,02000000
02020000,02000200
02020000,00000200 (left turn road)
02000002,02000000
02000002,02000200
02000002,00000200 (right turn road)

02020200,02000000
02020200,02000200
02020200,00000200 (left side road T)
02000202,02000000
02000202,02000200
02000202,00000200 (right side road T)

02020002,02000000
02020002,02000200
02020002,00000200 (left-right road T)



(owtr and ropr in all their unfinished glory)

Meanwhile, my oneway converter tile keeps getting rotated wrong, I wish SC4 opened and closed faster!

[Thalassicus 33]

Date: 10/2/2004 4:35:34 PM
Author: qurlix
Meanwhile, my oneway converter tile keeps getting rotated wrong, I wish SC4 opened and closed faster!

quote>

Move all your other plugins into a backup folder...It only takes me about 20 seconds from clicking the icon to getting inside a city on a P3/512ram. Then again if you want it faster than that just run SC4 on a Cray

[qurlix 20]

Ok, now everything is working out. Unfortunately, my tile has an odd quirk: no cars want to go through it. Only buses and pedestrians are willing to travel through!

pictures not working...

At least it works. As for the El-Train over Road system, I haven't tried anything drastic like adding textures or paths, but the RULs work fine.

there was supposed to be stuff here...

So, as unusual as it may seem, stuff works! I don't get it either... [:confused:]

[ardecila 124]

Well, first off, the Elevated Rail supports will need to be widened, so they don't show up in the middle of a road.

What we need to do is assume that this system will be used in an urban grid. That means diagonals should be scrapped. T-junctions (at least on the roads underneath) should also be scrapped.

Here's a diagram of six puzzle pieces upon which rudimentary systems can be built. One more thought: If you're going to go to the trouble of building an elevated system, wouldn't you want full crossings? Let's forget + crossings, and always do the transfer tracks.

[qurlix 20]

I wasn't going to use special pieces (be they interchange- or puzzle- ), so I thought it would be easier to establish the road junctions differently. That way the regular light rail drawing system could be kept. There would be much less work involved for most of the simple tiles, but some combinations couldn't be made and the supports would get in the way. I was hoping there would be some clever way of avoiding the pillars, like placing the car paths on the very outmost part of the tile and place 'parking' or something on the inside (a practical urban answer).



I think an interchange-style sytem would be awesome, but modeling takes quite a while (and I couldn't help at all with that stage). If we build it as a natural RUL extension, it seems to blend better with the natural SC4 dragging and drawing.

Of course, I'll happily help if you want to go ahead and work on the modeling aspect...but I'm really lazy , and I could get a similar result with less effort. Honestly, I like the modified beneath-road-with-parking idea.


PS: here's the other pic that should be in my last post

[ardecila 124]

Or, you could replace the pillars with a wider version. I've always hated those pillars. Besides, aren't the pillars seperate models (a straight and diagonal)?

[Tropod 144]

Date:10/2/2004 7:19:44 PM
Author:ardecila

Here's a diagram of six puzzle pieces upon which rudimentary systems can be built.  One more thought:

quote>

Nice! . Now if only someone would actually *model &/or texture* Puzzle Pieces for these, namely the; Corner; T-Intersection; '+' Intersection (I could/would do the rest). It would add a whole new dynamics to the game. But alas...........

 

@qurlix; yeah sometimes it can get a little confusing, with the Rotations & flipping (Flipping & Rotating applies to both the Paths & the Texture~though I'm sure by now you'd know this). Depending on the RUL, can depend on which way it can be to better handle tile(s) in-game. For the IntersectionSolutions file (if you're still having trouble), I'd suggest getting the Textures right first & then worry about the Paths (I've personally found it easier doing it this way with this particular file).

[andreharv 1,197]

I just noticed that probably the best use of this oneway-road conversion would be with the ferries since there is no other way to connect oneways or avenues to it. Just a thought...

[Cactaur55 0]

Well, after getting the NAM compatable Rail to Elevated rail transition... I've found another problem for myself.

When I drive the UDI, (note that I built the thing, attemped to draw it all the way, exit the city and come back) the Elevated Rail Train stops in the middle of it, or in better terms, it stops in the edge. Beacuse of this, I suspect the ground rail one does too. This even happened to the regular automata, it stops and goes away at the edge, and suddenly a split second later, the train comes out, just like it used to, with the addition that the elevated rail goes partially into it.

I've edited the lot to allow 100,000 people to travel through it. There were only about 15-20 tiles of rail before I ended it with the NDEX rail to subway transition on both sides. Is there a problem with this? I know it works on Tropod's game, as he you posted pictures.

This may deal with lots, but it also has automata thingies, and UDI stuff in it, so don't disregard it.

EDIT: I have NAM (Beta) 9/04B/04.

[greyveil 37]

Cactaur55, I've edited the lot to allow 100,000 people to travel through it

have you tried it with default lot? its possible during modification some of the settings got altered.

[Rymac91 15]

Holy @%#*! Okay I now know never to track a popular topic.
I have the tutorial and I can't make heads or tails over it.And the file that came with the tutorial looks done to me(As you can tell I just care about it working).I have to admit that kind of work would take me 1 year.Hey! If maxis would make more tools to use(like more simpler programs like their old B.A.T.)I could make a interchange(Example: you have a wide selection of ramps that you can also bend them to your liking).But thats just a fantisy.

[qurlix 20]

Ok, now we've got things going well!



Two instances of the tile are shown. Textures and paths were fixed. RULs are now correct. I'm so suprised, but it all works!

[boliqua2 0]

What i have noticed is that with the UDI Elevated Rail to Ground Rail is that the automata works with the Ground rail trains on the Elevated Rail but not visa versa the elevated rail autamata disapears when it reaches the ground rail. Just wondering if you can fix it if you have the chance if it is actually fixable.






Adam

[Thalassicus 33]

Date: 10/3/2004 7:01:56 PM
Author: andreharv
I just noticed that probably the best use of this oneway-road conversion would be with the ferries since there is no other way to connect oneways or avenues to it. Just a thought...

quote>
I was positive you could drag avenues onto a car ferry...but I might have been mistaken.

I've been realizing more and more though that the oneway-road converter is going to have a ton of useful applications in places where only a road or oneway can normally be used, mostly around areas where converting avenues to oneways (esp. double-diagonal oneways/avenues). The game's network rules are really picky with avenues...

[Tropod 144]

@boliqua2; There is a reason for this, for both aspects. I will have to see whether or not to do this.

@Cactaur55; I have tested this pretty extensively. I suggest reading the readme a little more carefully, & also taking a look at the following thread regarding this stuff: UDI...stuff .

@qurlix; looks good . I had at once stage thought about doing Avenue to Road head on conection, similar to what you've done here (namely because of the Ferries), but with this now don't think it'd be necessary really.

[dominohobbes 27]

Date:9/13/2004 8:18:47 PM
Author:dominohobbes

 Well here's my work so far (I accidentally took the pic at night)

I can't attach the files for some reason I'll email them to you T7T.

 

Anyways about the lots I made, it's supposed to be for downtown/ upscale area. Dark brick with planters and lanterns, and the centerpiece is a tree with benches.

quote>

I'm so sorry that it took so long, but I've finally found enough time to find where that texture came from. Maybe we can bring this idea back to life.

I got the brick texture from the castle ramparts pack on www.simcity.com Sorry again I took so long, i just got really spaced out with my schoolwork and all that.

[Alkaola 18]

oh i didn't follow this thread for a while but are those great brick streets downloadeble dominohobbes?

[dominohobbes 27]

Right now they're just regular lots, but t7t was going to make them into new fancy Ped Mall tiles. I don't know how long that takes  but you should be able to download them soon.

[smoncrie 43]

 

Attached is the completed streetlights on puzzle pieces mod.

 

I would like people to try it, and if there are no problems I would like it to be added to the NAM.

 

Improvements from the last version:

   Streetlights on One-way road puzzle pieces,
   Streetlight on Start/end ramps and ON/OFF ramps,
   180-degree rotations of the puzzle pieces no longer effect the position of the streetlights.

 

Technical Notes:
In this mod, the streetlights do not change with different wealth levels.
To place the streetlights for the two sides of the road (left and right) and for two different rotations requires 4 type 21 exemplars (2 X 2  = 4).
   
the7trumpets, you may be interested to know that I found how to restrict type 21 exemplars to specified rotations!  I also found how to place additional props on streets, roads, and one-way road, without disturbing the pattern of streetlights.

 

Streetlights on avenue puzzle pieces will be in the next post.

 

smoncrie

[smoncrie 43]

Attached is the streetlights on avenue puzzle pieces mod.  I separated it from the other streetlight mod because there are some slight problems with avenues.

 

One problem is that when a real avenue is zoned on one side, both sides know it, but if an avenue puzzle piece is zoned on one side, only that side knows it. This means that, for consistency, I had to make the streetlights show, even when there is no zoning next to an avenue puzzle piece.

 

The other problem is that the streetlights float between the avenue's two lanes.  This looks OK to me, because the two lanes are quite close, but some people might not like it.

 

smoncrie

[TheJerseyDevil73 13]

This is an appaizing mod. I recently tried it after going threw the countless warnings. I found it hard to use and offered few high end alternatives to traffic. Things I wanted in it werent there. Dont get me wrong this is a master piece.

 

>>>But I wish it was released one lot at a time. Not with the huge updates. So if someone needs a lot they can have it. I would like to make pedestrian malls and a few other things but I dont want all of the changes this comes with. Good job none the less. But please offer lot by lot if possible.

[dominohobbes 27]

Quirlx: great work! I can't wait until those are done because there are quite a few times that I've needed a road to one-way road transition. Any idea when this will be done?

 

Well I guess I found those textures too late, it seems the new ped mall tile idea is dead

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 10/5/2004 10:38:23 PM
Author: dominohobbes

Well I guess I found those textures too late, it seems the new ped mall tile idea is dead

quote>


ped mall idea is dead? Nope

I've gotten the textures, and I'm sort of in the process of setting them up, it's just going to take a little bit of time.

Between writing and rewriting hundreds of lines of RUL code for the turning lanes project, school, real life, oh, and eating , I've managed to keep myself relatively busy. Don't worry though, it will make itself into the NAM here sooner or later. Those lots you did look fantastic.

[dominohobbes 27]

Ok thanks  I know what its like to be busy (it seems like I always am) so take as much time as you need with that

[Tropod 144]

Date:10/5/2004 9:42:15 PM
Author:TheJerseyDevil73

This is an appaizing mod. I recently tried it after going threw the countless warnings. I found it hard to use and offered few high end alternatives to traffic. Things I wanted in it werent there. Dont get me wrong this is a master piece.

 

>>>But I wish it was released one lot at a time. Not with the huge updates. So if someone needs a lot they can have it. I would like to make pedestrian malls and a few other things but I dont want all of the changes this comes with. Good job none the less. But please offer lot by lot if possible.

quote>

Lot by Lot? Well, offering lot by lot isn't possible really, not in the way that the items in the mod are seperable. Secondly, there are no Lots in the mod . Never has been, & probably never will be (touch wood ).

 

Date:4/24/2004 1:15:00 PM
Author:Tropod

LOTS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD AT ALL WHATSOEVER. Thank you.
---------------------------------------------
The Network Addon Mod (NAM) can be obtained here :
NAM
---------------------------------------------
Requests are no longer taken in this thread.
Requests relevant to this mod are now taken in the following thread:
NAM Requests
---------------------------------------------
NAM Development is now handled in the following thread:
NAM Development
---------------------------------------------

This thread is now just a general discussion thread for the Network Addon Mod. Any general feedback/comments/discussions etc should be made in this thread, & this thread only.

quote>