Europeans Beware!

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: Bumdark

Anyway, how 'bout we forget diplomatie (damn, how do you spell that!?) and just send every friggin' army we've got? We're dealing with only a bunch of terrorrists in a confined area, aren't we, in Iraq and that region? Sure, we're scared we'll attract problems by mingling in this damn affair – but, hello... they won't counterattack if they're all extinct. Am I the only one who sees this!? Can't we just end this stupid, vile, completely nonesensical problem forever!?quote>

If you want to start WWIII, go on... Al Qaeda's "base" (there's not really such thing, because as good terrorrists they act like separated cells) is believed to be in Pakistan. So, uhm, Pakistan is not in a good political situation now, the government is our ally, but is constantly attacked by islamists that try to overthrown it, and invading the country would surely uprise the masses against us and the government... Giving complete control over the Pakistani nuclear weapons to islamists that would probably never be able to use it, as India would probably erase pakistan off the map with their own nuclear weapons at the sight of such a dangerous situation. To succeed in such a crazy campaign (and same if attacking Iran) US army would need more troops than the regular  ones, (a big part of US army is spread all over the world) so it would need conscription, that would mean sure political death to the US government at that given time.

And last but not least, Al Qaeda is not centralized, so attacking Osama wouldn't stop the commandos that are already installed and operating in our countries, it would even probably enworse the situation.

Diplomacy and strategy are crucial and subtle arts

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: Bumdark

Anyway, how 'bout we forget diplomatie (damn, how do you spell that!?) and just send every friggin' army we've got? We're dealing with only a bunch of terrorrists in a confined area, aren't we, in Iraq and that region? Sure, we're scared we'll attract problems by mingling in this damn affair – but, hello... they won't counterattack if they're all extinct. Am I the only one who sees this!? Can't we just end this stupid, vile, completely nonesensical problem forever!?quote>

You can kill a person, but you can't kill an idea.

[SkyTearer 10]

I think people misunderstood me, America can stay in Iraq forever for as long as I care.

All i know is before the UK entered Iraq, we had no Islamic terrorist attacks or attempted attacks, now that we're there we have. Iraq in no way shape or form had any negative influence upon Europe or even the US for that matter, and BEFORE THE WAR THERE WAS NO AL QAEDA IN IRAQ WHAT SO EVER, the Americans created the problem out of nothing and because of Tony Blair we blindly followed and paid the consequences. Afghanistan is completely different, there were al qaeda training camps there and they had strong influence.

And if it wasn't for the Gulf War al qaeda wouldn't of attacked at all!!!

The main thing people (primarially Amerians) don't realise is that the terrorists don't attack for religious reasons at all, they are not crazy, dumb, or "animals" as some less educated people call them. They attack for political reasons only and use religion only as a base for recruitment and to gain use of suicide bombers. These people are extremely intelligent, cunning, and excellent planners. They have no armies, no state, no political influence, and comparitavely no money. They are using the only means they have to express their political wants and so far have done quite a successfull job at it.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: SkyTearer

And if it wasn't for the Gulf War al qaeda wouldn't of attacked at all!!!

quote>

Yeah and I've got a bridge you might like to buy.

[SkyTearer 10]

Learn your history mate, after Iraq invaded Kuwait Osama offered to send his then much stronger army to help Kuwait and end the occupation for a percentage of oil profits. Kuwait was on the verge of accepting, when the US came in and gave a more attractive option, which Kuwait accepted. Osama felt betrayed by his fellow Muslim for infidel Americans and shortly afterwards the attacks started eg. USS Cole, US Embassy in nairobi, etc. climaxing in 9/11

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

They wont do anything, they cant get past MI5 and MI6 lol. Anyone remember their attempt to fly planes into one of the Canary Wharf skyscrapers (just like they did to the NY WTC)? The attack that was crushed by MI5?

[SkyTearer 10]

Lol yeah we got James Bond on our side 

CIA are a bunch of twats

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

Hey Hey, lets not step down to insults and name calling please. Check the rules

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: SkyTearer

The main thing people (primarially Amerians) don't realise is that the terrorists don't attack for religious reasons at all, they are not crazy, dumb, or "animals" as some less educated people call them. They attack for political reasons only and use religion only as a base for recruitment and to gain use of suicide bombers. These people are extremely intelligent, cunning, and excellent planners. They have no armies, no state, no political influence, and comparitavely no money. They are using the only means they have to express their political wants and so far have done quite a successfull job at it.quote>

You think the people in the CIA and other military planners don't know this?

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

It is unwise indeed to ignore threats. The US learned that lesson when the NYC WTC got blown up by a'q' and the UK, when the London WTC got blown up by the IRA.

This is what we have MI6 and the CIA for, to tackle this stuff.

[Shingure 56]

From what I know Europe had it's own 9/11 which was infact 3/11 , I think it was the Madrid train bombings. Either way America has it bad. The United States needs some form of talks with them. Or something because at home this war is killing us economically and socially. You can see that just by hearing that over 250,000 homes are up for forclosure and that now America as a majority wants out of the situation. It's like a rotting tree. If it continues to rot there will be a fall and failure of the said infastructure. But I digress

Europe would have a harder time trying to handle the situation, in my opinion, due to the fact that there are more countries to worry about when it comes to political borders down to what the people want. The UK and Spain already had their taste of it and as far as I'm concerned it will be more that follows. This war has to stop because if it doesn't it means worldwide failure.

[Godzillaman 21]

So if Osama goes through with this, he'll be killing innocent people just because of an insulting cartoon? Sounds like a bit of overreacting there...sure, it was insulting, but do innocent peoples blood have to be spilled? That's like a fingernail for a freakin' arm...

[belfastuniguy 18]

I think people misunderstood me, America can stay in Iraq forever for as long as I care.

All i know is before the UK entered Iraq, we had no Islamic terrorist attacks or attempted attacks, now that we're there we have. Iraq in no way shape or form had any negative influence upon Europe or even the US for that matter, and BEFORE THE WAR THERE WAS NO AL QAEDA IN IRAQ WHAT SO EVER, the Americans created the problem out of nothing and because of Tony Blair we blindly followed and paid the consequences. Afghanistan is completely different, there were al qaeda training camps there and they had strong influence.

And if it wasn't for the Gulf War al qaeda wouldn't of attacked at all!!!

The main thing people (primarially Amerians) don't realise is that the terrorists don't attack for religious reasons at all, they are not crazy, dumb, or "animals" as some less educated people call them. They attack for political reasons only and use religion only as a base for recruitment and to gain use of suicide bombers. These people are extremely intelligent, cunning, and excellent planners. They have no armies, no state, no political influence, and comparitavely no money. They are using the only means they have to express their political wants and so far have done quite a successfull job at it. quote>

Well I think you will find that 9-11 happened before Iraq and its hardly as if Islamic terror groups just appeared after Iraq or Afganistan for that matter. Islamic terror groups have existed in the UK for many many years, as has radical islamic ideals. The recent attacks have just allowed the media, police and society to shine a very bright light on the Muslim community. This means we hear more about plots and potential attacks.

For years British Intelligence was somewhat pre-occupied with Irish Republican terrorists and since that is no longer an issue they have been able to focus all efforts on radical muslims. We have had one successful attack in the UK, the others have either failed or been discovered. The attacks on UK targets were not that sophisticated, but somewhat crude and subject to luck as the failed attack on London transport showed. The UK has not yet experienced a massive ALQ attack and I doubt it wil to be honest.

[jarnomiedema 52]

Originally posted by: Godzillaman So if Osama goes through with this, he'll be killing innocent people just because of an insulting cartoon? Sounds like a bit of overreacting there...sure, it was insulting, but do innocent peoples blood have to be spilled? That's like a fingernail for a freakin' arm...quote>

 

True, but terrorists aren't exactly known for their logic and reasonable thinking.. They tend to overreact once something happens that doesn't suit their fancy. It's their 'thing'..

As for Osama Bin Laden and his threats, I stopped taking him seriously a long time ago and, while I agree that underestimating terrorists is a bad thing, I'm fairly certain their capabilities are constantly overestimated. It's pretty clear they're desperate when they start using mentally handicapped people as martyrs..

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Godzillaman So if Osama goes through with this, he'll be killing innocent people just because of an insulting cartoon? Sounds like a bit of overreacting there...sure, it was insulting, but do innocent peoples blood have to be spilled? That's like a fingernail for a freakin' arm...quote>

Do fanatics care about whether they're "going overboard"?  (Which, btw, is a relative quality, meaning the killer probably doesn't consider his/her actions inappropriate.)

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Godzillaman

So if Osama goes through with this, he'll be killing innocent people just because of an insulting cartoon? Sounds like a bit of overreacting there...sure, it was insulting, but do innocent peoples blood have to be spilled? That's like a fingernail for a freakin' arm...quote>

Yes,the cartoon was insulting and put Islam in a bad light.  But the way I see it, the overreaction puts Islam in a worse light than the cartoon did in the first place.

This seems obvious from my point of view.  Their point of view is clearly different but I don't understand it.  Can anyone explain it?

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: Godzillaman

So if Osama goes through with this, he'll be killing innocent people just because of an insulting cartoon? Sounds like a bit of overreacting there...sure, it was insulting, but do innocent peoples blood have to be spilled? That's like a fingernail for a freakin' arm...quote>

Yes,the cartoon was insulting and put Islam in a bad light.  But the way I see it, the overreaction puts Islam in a worse light than the cartoon did in the first place.

This seems obvious from my point of view.  Their point of view is clearly different but I don't understand it.  Can anyone explain it?quote>

Blinded by revenge?  If I had to take a guess at this, what I'd say is going on is a case of "you made me look stupid, so I'm going to make you regret that."

[SkyTearer 10]

No, it's against the Islamic faith to show the image of Muhammed, and the Danish showed it and apparently mocked it, simple as that. It's blasphemy and sin to people who take their religion very seriously, oh course they would be pissed off.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Yes,the cartoon was insulting and put Islam in a bad light. But the way I see it, the overreaction puts Islam in a worse light than the cartoon did in the first place.

This seems obvious from my point of view. Their point of view is clearly different but I don't understand it. Can anyone explain it?quote>

Well firstly the cartoons maybe were not in best taste but the paper has the legal right to print them. Freedom of speech, expression and press is something I like both Europeans and Americans take very seriously and we are certainly not going to have a group of murderers tell us any different.

The reaction gave Muslims a very bad image. Many see them now as intolerant and willing to rise up against the country at every whim. While this is not true for all Muslims that fact is somewhat ignored by many and the press and so all Muslims are therefore calling for our heads to be cut off.

Muslims need to understand that part of living in a modern liberal civilisation where such rights have existed for a very long time means they will see and hear things that find offensive just as some Christians find programming and news articles offensive but they don't go about burining down government buildings, tearing the national flag and calling for retribution.

The sooner they fully understand and accept that the the better it will be for us all. If they hate living in these countries so much and detest our values and the rights we hold dear then they can go and live in an Islamic country where such things would happen and these freedoms they hate are repressed. No one is making them stay here....

[neongamer 3]

Hmm, so two years after the incident happened, he now kicks up a stink about it. The cavemen must not have been very good at sending messages to eachother then...

[Meg 368]

So blasphemy requires a response of murderous violence?  In a religion where peace is one of the basic tenets?

I can't connect the dots there.   I believe there is something I am missing.

I realize we are talking about the extremists and extremists rarely make sense to me.

[belfastuniguy 18]

So blasphemy requires a response of murderous violence? In a religion where peace is one of the basic tenets?

I can't connect the dots there. I believe there is something I am missingquote>

Your not missing anything they just use their religion as a veil to excuse their violence and murder. True Muslims would never resort to such means. Many are peaceful and are disgusted their religion has been dragged through the gutter by these radicals

[SkyTearer 10]

Originally posted by: neongamer Hmm, so two years after the incident happened, he now kicks up a stink about it. The cavemen must not have been very good at sending messages to eachother then...quote>

 

The cartoon aired 2 years ago initially, they re-aired it afew weeks (months?) ago.

And please stop with the racist comments it's really not needed

Make fun of people bc of their nationality, not race

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

So blasphemy requires a response of murderous violence? In a religion where peace is one of the basic tenets?

I can't connect the dots there. I believe there is something I am missingquote>

Your not missing anything they just use their religion as a veil to excuse their violence and murder. True Muslims would never resort to such means. Many are peaceful and are disgusted their religion has been dragged through the gutter by these radicalsquote>

Good point.   That makes sense.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I'll also add that the cartoon were re-published after the cartoonist was subjected to death threats and the re-publishing was an act of support from all Danish press and if Osama (got it right that time ) were to attack Europe purely based on those cartoon I would like to see every European newspaper re-publish them on the front page as an act of defiance....we should never ever allow our society to be changed by terrorism...otherwise they have won already..

[SkyTearer 10]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy I'll also add that the cartoon were re-published after the cartoonist was subjected to death threats and the re-publishing was an act of support from all Danish press and if Osama (got it right that time ) were to attack Europe purely based on those cartoon I would like to see every European newspaper re-publish them on the front page as an act of defiance....we should never ever allow our society to be changed by terrorism...otherwise they have won already..quote>

 

Wise words, also if anyone knows British history, british ppl, especially Londoners are not subject to threats and are definately not afraid

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Godzillaman So if Osama goes through with this, he'll be killing innocent people just because of an insulting cartoon? Sounds like a bit of overreacting there...sure, it was insulting, but do innocent peoples blood have to be spilled? That's like a fingernail for a freakin' arm...quote>

Overreaction is hardly new for islamists. The Taliban thought cutting the head of women who went outside alone, was appropriate. The current Afghan regime thinks that it's appropriate to cut the head of someone who download a PDF file regarding women's rights.

Originally posted by: Voar Tok

Blinded by revenge?  If I had to take a guess at this, what I'd say is going on is a case of "you made me look stupid, so I'm going to make you regret that."quote>

Might be because it's the best religious excuse around these days—remember, at the three latest occasions they didn't have much to point back at. Sadly for Osama (and muslims at large), the "worst" drawing just gets more fitting.

Originally posted by: SkyTearer No, it's against the Islamic faith to show the image of Muhammed, and the Danish showed it and apparently mocked it, simple as that. It's blasphemy and sin to people who take their religion very seriously, oh course they would be pissed off.quote>

Well, it's not illegal to to show Muhammad, unless you adhere to the modern tradition. You can see some of the images of him at Wikipedia.

[belfastuniguy 18]

That article also shows the cartoons...nice to see that. I never found them that bad to be honest..then again I don't care how religious figures are protrayed.

[toxicpiano 125]

Oh who cares, he's probably dead anyway.