Neglectful Mom or Overzealous Cop?

[DOXXP29 5]

What do you think? Hey, if I was a parent, I might have done this.

Mom Faces Trial for Leaving Child in Car

By DON BABWIN, AP

3 hours ago

CHICAGO — Treffly Coyne was out of her car for just minutes and no more than 10 yards away.

But that was long and far enough to land her in court after a police officer spotted her sleeping 2-year-old daughter alone in the vehicle; Coyne had taken her two older daughters to pour $8.29 in coins into a Salvation Army kettle.

Minutes later, she was under arrest — the focus of both a police investigation and a probe by the state's child welfare agency. Now the case that has become an Internet flash point for people who either blast police for overstepping their authority or Coyne for putting a child in danger.

The 36-year-old suburban mother is preparing to go on trial Thursday on misdemeanor charges of child endangerment and obstructing a peace officer. If convicted, she could be sentenced to a year in jail and fined $2,500, even though child welfare workers found no credible evidence of abuse or neglect.

On Dec. 8 Coyne decided to drive to Wal-Mart in the Chicago suburb of Crestwood so her children and a young friend could donate the coins they'd collected at her husband's office.

Even as she buckled 2-year-old Phoebe into the car, the girl was asleep. When Coyne arrived at the store, she found a spot to park in a loading zone, right behind someone tying a Christmas tree onto a car.

"It's sleeting out, it's not pleasant, I don't want to disturb her, wake her up," Coyne said this week. "It was safer to leave her in the safety and warmth of an alarmed car than take her."

So Coyne switched on the emergency flashers, locked the car, activated the alarm and walked the other children to the bell ringer.

She snapped a few pictures of the girls donating money and headed back to the car. But a community service officer blocked her way.

"She was on a tirade, she was yelling at me," Coyne said. The officer, Coyne said, didn't want to hear about how close Coyne was, how she never set foot inside the store and was just there to let the kids donate money, or how she could always see her car.

Coyne telephoned her husband, Tim Janecyk, who advised her not to say anything else to police until he arrived. So Coyne declined to talk further, refusing even to tell police her child's name.

When Janecyk pulled up, his wife already was handcuffed, sitting in a patrol car.

Crestwood Police Chief Timothy Sulikowski declined to comment about the case. But he did not dispute the contention that Coyne parked nearby or was away from her car for just a few minutes.

He did, however, suggest Coyne put her child at risk.

"A minute or two, that's when things can happen," he said.

Talk about the case has intensified, particularly online, where bloggers are weighing in on various message boards.

Many have harsh words for the police department, calling the arrest of a mother who left her child in a locked car for a few minutes an abuse of authority.

Yet statistics show thousands of children are injured and dozens die every year after being left unattended near or inside vehicles.

"I am talking tens of thousands of people who leave their kids in the car for any period of time all around America," said Janette Fennell, founder and president of Kansas-based Kids and Cars. "People don't appreciate the dangers of leaving a child alone in the car."

Coyne's attorney, Michelle Forbes, argued that Coyne did not break the<

[Godzillaman 21]

Wow...I'm sure Canada has stupid cops...not like this...

From what's described in the article, the cop seems to have over-reacted...

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: DOXXP29

Yet statistics show thousands of children are injured and dozens die every year after being left unattended near or inside vehicles.

"I am talking tens of thousands of people who leave their kids in the car for any period of time all around America," said Janette Fennell, founder and president of Kansas-based Kids and Cars. "People don't appreciate the dangers of leaving a child alone in the car."quote>

People don't appreciate the dangers of having kids. I say leave them to the state—they're obiviously better than ordinary people to take care of them.

I'm glad my parents (and I!) didn't live in the US. They would have found themself in prison for the rest of their lives.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: krbe

Originally posted by: DOXXP29

Yet statistics show thousands of children are injured and dozens die every year after being left unattended near or inside vehicles.

"I am talking tens of thousands of people who leave their kids in the car for any period of time all around America," said Janette Fennell, founder and president of Kansas-based Kids and Cars. "People don't appreciate the dangers of leaving a child alone in the car."quote>

People don't appreciate the dangers of having kids. I say leave them to the state—they're obiviously better than ordinary people to take care of them.

I'm glad my parents (and I!) didn't live in the US. They would have found themself in prison for the rest of their lives.quote>

Not necessarily.  My mom did this kind of stuff all the time, and sometimes worse, and she never got in trouble with the law.

EDIT: When they say "community service officer" does anyone know if they mean full-fledged police or if they mean someone who's sort of being an extra set of eyes.  The largest town around my home town has some sort of "Citizens on Patrol" deal set up.  No offense meant to the people who do that kind of stuff well, but some of them are absolutely the lamest excuse of community police walking the earth.  Most of being a patrol officer is fairly boring work, so don't expect to need to be a hero much.  I seen a ton of community service "police" who don't get that concept.

[belfastuniguy 18]

The world is too paranoid about kids these days. The police over reacted. The court should have thrown this out....

In the UK we have Community Support Officers, but as far as I know then can not arrest someone, which makes them pretty useless in my view. So yeah as you put it VT 'an extra set of eyes'

[purpledaddy 6]

Originally posted by: DOXXP29 What do you think? Hey, if I was a parent, I might have done this.

Mom Faces Trial for Leaving Child in Car

By DON BABWIN, AP

3 hours ago

CHICAGO —

Coyne's attorney, Michelle Forbes, argued that Coyne did not break the law any more than a mother who parks in front of a school in a rainstorm and leaves an infant in the car as she runs a few feet to pick up another child.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. quote>

 

Not the same Michelle Forbes on Battlestar Galactica, 24, or Homicide Life on the Streets I take it.  She plays some really tough ladies!

[GMT 389]

gosh, that's like the most ridiculous thing I've heard for weeks now...

whoever gave made that fool a cop should be arrested instead of the woman.

And the cop aswell for abuse of authority...

(that's what I say, someone who's attitude usually is exactly the opposite of what above lines show...)

[saltandsauce 0]

peodophiles have existed forever yet only tihs generation is cotton wrapped

go up the generations and the kidshad more freedom

grandparents were kept out of the house until dinner was ready

parents were expected to stay out of the house but stay in the street (they played in groups so no kids were ever alone

now you have to state your name address, emergency telephone number, backup emergency number , blood group, which adults will be present, how much training these adults have received

kids are resilient against danger especially in groups of course parents alwayss made sure some older kids were nearby to keep them right

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok

Not necessarily.  My mom did this kind of stuff all the time, and sometimes worse, and she never got in trouble with the law.

EDIT: When they say "community service officer" does anyone know if they mean full-fledged police or if they mean someone who's sort of being an extra set of eyes.  The largest town around my home town has some sort of "Citizens on Patrol" deal set up.  No offense meant to the people who do that kind of stuff well, but some of them are absolutely the lamest excuse of community police walking the earth.  Most of being a patrol officer is fairly boring work, so don't expect to need to be a hero much.  I seen a ton of community service "police" who don't get that concept.quote>

Yes, but you (and I, so I suppose my comment wouldn't apply to my situation) were young in the good oul' days. I'm surprised the officer didn't call er a pedophile for taking pictures of the kids, too.

Community Officers might not have the authority to arrest someone (and thank God for that!), but they're not "useless"—they relieve the police of many boring routine tasks, so that (presumably) well educated police officers we as a society have paid good money for can be used where their education matters.

[fern244 1]

This is crap. Why can't people trust children these days?

[Bumdark 3]

I sure don't see anything remotely wrong with leaving a two-year-old sleeping, buckled up, in a car, with flashers and alarm set, with the mother just a few feet away, with the car always in line of sight...

If that stupid officer had started yelling at me I'd have stuffed her mouth with something... probably a fist. Sorry, I hate power-hungry cops with nothing better to do. And taking this to court!? Jeez...

[belfastuniguy 18]

es, but you (and I, so I suppose my comment wouldn't apply to my situation) were young in the good oul' days. I'm surprised the officer didn't call er a pedophile for taking pictures of the kids, too.quote>

I'm sorry such a thing did not exist, criminals and child killers/rapists/abusers etc etc have always existed in society. Indeed not so long ago children were sent up chimneys and into linen machines and used as free or very cheap labour. So lets not all get misty eyed about the 'good old days' It's just now we are more aware of their existence. They suddenly didn't just appear in recent years.

Children are protected too much these days they are being suffocated by their parents, schools and laws. Just let them live a little and stop enforcing our own fear of the world onto them. I had caring and loving parents but they also allowed me freedoms, I could play out in the summer till it was dark and loved it. Many children don't get that these days. (That was only about 10 years ago).

Let kids live a little and give them and parents that let them do so a break.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy I'm sorry such a thing did not exist, criminals and child killers/rapists/abusers etc etc have always existed in society. Indeed not so long ago children were sent up chimneys and into linen machines and used as free or very cheap labour. So lets not all get misty eyed about the 'good old days' It's just now we are more aware of their existence. They suddenly didn't just appear in recent years. quote>

I'm sorry, but there was a time when children were allowed to play, the council didn't saw off the low branches on trees around playgrounds and the sand wasn't regulated. There also was a time when parents could take pictures of their children or pensioners wave to kids playing around. And the kids that were waved at? They had decided which ggame to play all by themself, and some of them even broke a leg or two—without the society reacting in a paranoid manner.

I don't remember seeing kids working around dangerous machinery though; and neither did my parents. But I remember seeing them in museums.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: saltandsauce peodophiles have existed forever yet only tihs generation is cotton wrapped

go up the generations and the kidshad more freedom

grandparents were kept out of the house until dinner was ready

parents were expected to stay out of the house but stay in the street (they played in groups so no kids were ever alone

now you have to state your name address, emergency telephone number, backup emergency number , blood group, which adults will be present, how much training these adults have received

kids are resilient against danger especially in groups of course parents alwayss made sure some older kids were nearby to keep them rightquote>

It does seem ridiculous but it's not baseless. As you go up the generations, you also find parents who were more familiar with the neighborhood. It used to be perfectly acceptable for your kids to run around the block unattended during the day since their mother knew every other person on the block and, if there was someone she didn't like, she could say "don't play in front of that guy's house". And the mothers were either home, or the kids were out with them, so they were never far away if they were needed. If one kid fell and hurt himself, another could go and fetch his mother.

Nowadays, mothers have jobs or other activities besides being homemakers, so they aren't home with their kids all day. And the growth of TV (and especially cable/satellite TV), computers, and video games now means that people stay inside their houses more and don't go outside as much. The result is that it is now very possible and in fact quite common to live right next door to someone and not know them at all. As such, the sense of security that your neighborhood is completely safe is gone, since there are people in it you don't know. People are less friendly and familiar with each other in general, and are therefore also less trusting and more paranoid in general. When people were open with each other, their kids could be let to roam free. Now that everyone keeps to themselves, they need to keep their kids close, too.

Not to mention that kids never really go outside to play with each other anymore, either. They specifically go over to each other's houses- and unless they're in the city, they probably don't live within walking distance of each other and thus require parental taxi service. And if they do go out to play, it's just in the backyard.

I've seen this change drastically even over my own life. As a kid in the 90's, I lived for several years in a condo development, and in the summer kids would be running around outside playing with each other all the time. The local elementary school was also right around the corner, and I would walk there without an adult- just with my friend (and, later, his younger brother, too). And if he wasn't going to school that day, or was staying late, it was perfectly acceptable for me to walk by myself. We're talking kindergarten through third grade here. 5 years old and walking to school unaccompanied. Nowadays no mother could permit that and be considered a decent parent. It's quite scary, frankly.

All that said, I don't think the mother in this case was negligent, considering she was right there within eyeshot and earshot the whole time. It appears to me that the cop saw the "abandoned" kid, freaked out, started berating the mother and, after learning that she hadn't gone far, refused to back down because he'd consider his authority (or his ego, or his masculinity) undermined if he ever admitted that he was wrong. You're not, after all, supposed to argue with a cop. If you're wrongfully accused, the proper way to deal with it is to go to court and make your case. Still, he was definitely being overzealous. He shouldn't have come right out yelling and screaming.

[Nardo69 51]

I am sure that during the time the officer wasted in treating a normal Mum into a criminal at least two dozen things were stolen in the nearby shops ...

I mean: She locked the car and was close by so what the (..) did the officer thought? "One point more in my arrest chart for this months that may take me away from the last position" or what?

My Mom surely left me and my sister several times in the car (A VW Golf I which she used for 26 years until it died last year) with no alarm, sometimes because we wanted to stay in the car. So what?

If you put a watchman behind everyone then who watches the watchmen?

Let us all pray to God so in His big Mercy He may give at least a little bit of brain to the brainless ...

[fukuda 351]

ridiculous.. , no, outraging.. sending a mother to trial just because she was 10 yards away from her child, locked safely inside a car...

Everyone is paranoid or what? There ain't child molesters with car stealing skills under each stone.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Duke87

All that said, I don't think the mother in this case was negligent, considering she was right there within eyeshot and earshot the whole time. It appears to me that the cop saw the "abandoned" kid, freaked out, started berating the mother and, after learning that she hadn't gone far, refused to back down because he'd consider his authority (or his ego, or his masculinity) undermined if he ever admitted that he was wrong. You're not, after all, supposed to argue with a cop. If you're wrongfully accused, the proper way to deal with it is to go to court and make your case. Still, he was definitely being overzealous. He shouldn't have come right out yelling and screaming. He should have simply started asking the mother questions: "That your child?" "Where were you" "How long were you gone?" etc. and then placed her under arrest if he received unsatisfactory answers. Never make assumptions, it's not always what it looks like.quote>

The officer in question is said to be a woman.  And while I don't want to be sexist, I suspect that probably influenced this situation some.

[projectadam 0]

I think there is some more things going on in this story than the media is allowing, a lot of things do not make sense.

First of all, I think the mom had to have been gone longer than they are claiming because if she just went to drop off some change with her daughters no more than ten yards away and then back how anyone could have even seen her kid and then blocked her path. Also, I do not know how many times I have walked by the Salvation Army bell people in front of Wal-Mart and I have never seen anyone taking pictures of their kids for donating??? I also do not know how many of you have children but I was just with my 6, 4 and 2 year old nieces this past week and I can not picture myself leaving the 2 year old in a car at Wal-Mart no matter how long I am going to be whether she is asleep or not.

I do believe that we as a society are a little paranoid with kids these days but before making a lot of claims about the mother or the police, let's see how the trial goes and see if more information comes out about the situation. Like I said, a lot of the evidence given in the article is not adding up.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I'm sorry, but there was a time when children were allowed to play, the council didn't saw off the low branches on trees around playgrounds and the sand wasn't regulated. There also was a time when parents could take pictures of their children or pensioners wave to kids playing around. And the kids that were waved at? They had decided which ggame to play all by themself, and some of them even broke a leg or two - without the society reacting in a paranoid manner.

I don't remember seeing kids working around dangerous machinery though; and neither did my parents. But I remember seeing them in museums.quote>

Well where I live and grew up the council certainly hasn't cut branches off trees to prevent tree climbing old people can still talk and wave to kids I see it all the time. That kinda of playtime does still exist so it's not as if it has vanished completely.

I don't like people saying things like 'good old days' because its false. Children throughout history has been abused and used and just becuase we have the media that bring things to light these days does not automatically mean the old days were better. People were just not aware of certain things.

People are more paranoid, that is exactly the point I was making.

I don't remember seeing kids working around dangerous machinery though; and neither did my parents. But I remember seeing them in museums.quote>

Still happens we only have to look to India, China and other poorer nations, it most certainly has not been relegated to museums.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: hymThe officer in question is said to be a woman.  And while I don't want to be sexist, I suspect that probably influenced this situation some.quote>

Whoops. Missed that detail.

Okay, so forget about the masculinity part, and probably forget about the ego part, but the authority part only gets stronger. Women cops are at times known for being insecure about their authority and thus tend to be a lot more confrontational and unforgiving, since they don't want to give anyone an inch out of fear they'll get walked all over. And you can't blame them, really. A woman is nowhere near as imposing a figure physically as a man, so they need to make up for it with attitude if they want to keep up with all their male colleagues. If you're a huge 6'5" crook, you're not going to feel threatened by a woman, it takes a man to match you in a fight.

And that's another concern that's been raised about female cops, actually. Statistics show they're far more likely to pull out their guns or use their tasers or their nightsticks than men are, due to them requiring them more often in order to match the crook physically, which makes some people raise as a concern that they're more prone to episodes of police brutality.

Of course, whether that's true or not, it won't change anything, since suggesting that men are better at something than women gets you labeled a sexist regardless of whether or not it's a valid claim. But, conversely, if you claim women are better at something than men, people will take you seriously and may even applaud you. Damned double standards....

[Meg 368]

An important phrase here:  "It's sleeting out".  

If the temperature was remotely hot, a small child left alone in a car, even for a few minutes, would be in danger.  The temperature inside a car on a summer day can rise very quickly.

But it wasn't a hot summer day, it was a sleeting winter day.  Which, oddly enough, lengthens the time before temperature would become an issue.

I'm going to guess that the "community service officer" had been standing in the cold sleet for a while and didn't like the idea of a small child being left out in that weather.  Even inside a car, the kid would freeze eventually.

Another issue:  do all Wal-marts have community service officers watching the parking lot and loading area?  or is this a bad neighborhood where kids should not be alone, period?   Or was this extra help on the holidays?   I agree with projectadam:  a little more information here would be useful.

[projectadam 0]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek An important phrase here:  "It's sleeting out".  

If the temperature was remotely hot, a small child left alone in a car, even for a few minutes, would be in danger.  The temperature inside a car on a summer day can rise very quickly.

But it wasn't a hot summer day, it was a sleeting winter day.  Which, oddly enough, lengthens the time before temperature would become an issue.

I'm going to guess that the "community service officer" had been standing in the cold sleet for a while and didn't like the idea of a small child being left out in that weather.  Even inside a car, the kid would freeze eventually.

Another issue:  do all Wal-marts have community service officers watching the parking lot and loading area?  or is this a bad neighborhood where kids should not be alone, period?   Or was this extra help on the holidays?   I agree with projectadam:  a little more information here would be useful.

quote>

 

I have been to some Wal-Marts in pretty bad neighborhoods and have never seen Community Service Officers outside. I am thinking it was someone who was just walking by and happened to see the kid but once again does not make any sense. It will be interesting after the trial is tomorrow, maybe some more facts will come out.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek I'm going to guess that the "community service officer" had been standing in the cold sleet for a while and didn't like the idea of a small child being left out in that weather.  Even inside a car, the kid would freeze eventually. quote>

As they had been driving to the destination, there would likely be some temperature inside the car, and the passengers would likely be dressed for the conditions. It would take quite a while for someone to freeze to death inside a car (think of the number of dogs left in cars that don't freeze to death), and prolonging the period the child had to endure without the motor running isn't going to help it. According to weather.com, it was about -5 and 10 degree centigrades; probably around zero at worst. If the temperature is of interest here, then surely it would have been better to talk to the woman than to wait for the police (unless they have som stalinist quota to fill of course).

Originally posted by: projectadam Also, I do not know how many times I have walked by the Salvation Army bell people in front of Wal-Mart and I have never seen anyone taking pictures of their kids for donating??? I also do not know how many of you have children but I was just with my 6, 4 and 2 year old nieces this past week and I can not picture myself leaving the 2 year old in a car at Wal-Mart no matter how long I am going to be whether she is asleep or not quote>

Firstly; the mother might try to teach her kids that not everyone are as well off as they; secondly, I know that at least my parents left me alone in the car as a kid, and the same with my siblings. Not that we ever have visited Wal-Mart, but it's not a universal rule that kids cannot be alone in a car, sleeping or not.

[Joesocwork 4]

I'd be interested in exactly what the law/statute under consideration in this juridiction says ver batim and why was it was possibly thought applicable. I am glad that regardless that the child welfare social workers found no evidence of abuse or neglect. As we say in our field, the child welfare workers are the ones who take children away from their parents... and they're the ones who don't. sigh...

[projectadam 0]

Charges dropped for mom who left tot in car

Child endangerment case stirred outrage, but police stand by the arrest

updated 1:35 p.m. CT, Thurs., March. 13, 2008

Charges will be dropped against a woman who briefly left her 2-year-old daughter alone in the car to take her two older daughters to pour coins into a Salvation Army kettle, prosecutors said Thursday.

The woman, Treffly Coyne, was charged with misdemeanor child endangerment and obstructing a peace officer after a Crestwood police officer spotted her sleeping daughter alone in the vehicle Dec. 8. The mother claimed she was close by at all times and was gone for just minutes.

Coyne's trial was supposed to begin Thursday, but prosecutors could not meet the burden of proof and decided to drop the charges, Cook County State's Attorney spokesman John Gorman said.

Her husband reacted with relief and anger. If convicted, his wife faced up to a year in jail and a fine of $2,500.

"We shouldn't have had to fight this long and this hard when my wife never did anything wrong," said Timothy Janecyk. The planned dismissal of the charges "only shows they tore my family apart for no reason."

Coyne, who was arrested in a loading zone near the entrance of a Wal-Mart store, contended 2-year-old Phoebe, who was sleeping, was safe inside the car after she locked it, activated the alarm system and turned on the emergency flashers.

She said she was never more than 30 feet from the vehicle, did not step inside the store and was gone for only minutes. And her attorney said because the car was always in sight, Coyne's daughter never was unattended.

Crestwood Police Chief Timothy Sulikowski said he disagreed with prosecutors' decision.

"We stand by the actions of our officers that night and they were looking out for the best interests of the child," he said.

Sulikowski said that while police were obligated to report the case to the state's child welfare agency, Coyne would not have been arrested had she cooperated and not refused to give them basic information, including the child's name.

"By not providing us with that information and the information of her child, at that point we don't know that that child is hers. We don't know if that child has been listed as a kidnapped child or a missing child," he said. "Absolutely, she forced this."

Coyne has acknowledged that she did not tell the officers her child's name after she called her husband on her cell phone and he told her not to say anything until he arrived. She said she was afraid and only wanted to wait for her husband, but police arrested her before he did.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23615083/?GT=43001

[Jman47 0]

i feel bad for this poor woman.

i think she did nothing wrong as well, she could have her kids taken away and her whole life ruined because of one overzealous community patroller looking to be some kind of hero.

this is a terrible travesty, makes me glad i dont live in chicago, but then again LA cops can be pretty dickheaded sometimes too.

[Easy Bakes 253]

The 36-year-old suburban mother is preparing to go on trial Thursday on misdemeanor charges of child endangerment and obstructing a peace officer. If convicted, she could be sentenced to a year in jail and fined $2,500, even though child welfare workers found no credible evidence of abuse or neglect.quote>

Main point.

Coyne's trial was supposed to begin Thursday, but prosecutors could not meet the burden of proof and decided to drop the charges, Cook County State's Attorney spokesman John Gorman said.quote>

 Common sense prevails.

[Joesocwork 4]

Having looked at it, it really looks as if there was miscommunications all the way around. Assumptions were made and people didn't talk, all resulting in blowing things out of proportion.

Having said that, with professionals and parents working together, if there are uncertainties that need to be cleared, it is much better to err on behalf of the safety and best interests of the child/children. In this case we're talking a 2 year old, not a 12 year old or an 18 year old. Regardless wherever the jurisdiction is, I believe there is a universal obligation to make sure that the children we see are safe. And I believe that are casual and subtle ways of looking or asking appropriate questions to inquire about safety w/out violating caretaker's civil liberties.

[Zelgadis 638]

My my... How things change.

My mother often tells me stories of how her father would often take her to bars and let her play pinball while he has a drink or two. Then, sometimes, he would drive off, having forgotten all about her and show up anywhere from a half an hour to an hour later to pick her up.

Makes this whole situation seem... trivial.

ISF

[TRNSTN 0]

I've been left in cars scores of times while I was a kid. I just sat in the car to listen to the radio or sleep while my mom shopped cause I refused to get off the car. Before that I was home alone for a good part of the afternoon after school during my childhood. Not once has there been any problems. Honestly one case like this is ridiculous. The community officer should've listened to the story and just left. The story was okay, and hey the officer made a mistake but good for him he cared enough to inquire about it. Sometimes officers aren't always right. This one was way over zealous.