American 2008 Election

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek I have to admit that I'm surprised.  

I might have to re-adjust my perceptions about Texans.

:::: ducks from the cowboy boots that VT is about to throw ::::      quote>

I'm likewise curious to know that means.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

I have to admit that I'm surprised.  

I might have to re-adjust my perceptions about Texans.

:::: ducks from the cowboy boots that VT is about to throw ::::      quote>

I'm likewise curious to know that means. quote>

It means I get to give my brother a hard time. 

He moved to Texas some years ago and has been carrying on about how wonderful and right minded people are down there (probably because they let him keep his gun collection). 

But he also thinks that everything (and I mean things like the mortgage crisis, the slump in the housing market, the price of gasoline, Virginia Tech, and Hurricane Katrina) is Hillary's fault.

I'm quite certain that he is puzzled and furious today and feels his fellow Texans have betrayed him.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok OK, I said that there was no way to track how the cross-over vote went, and officially speaking, there isn't, but since they always do exit polling with elections, here's what the polls said about the cross-over vote.

Keep in mind that when you read this, don't put too much stock in it.  People lie on these things all the time, and they only surveyed about 2,000 people. [...]quote>

Maybe some of the democrats understood that voting for Clinton was imperative to draw their internal campaigns out, and let them fight each other than tackeling the issues.

I also read somewhere that Clinton is trying to get the DNC to accept the results from the Michigan and Florida primaries, since she won both of them (with little competition—and still lags behind Obama). Anyone know how that's going?

[Zelgadis 638]

Well, this is a surprise to me... I had written Hillary off, but I forgot the time-tested saying; Never, ever underestimate a Clinton!

ISF

[BurroDiablo 222]

Same here, I'd given up on Cliton staying in the race... its certainly a surprise.

[The Boy 0]

I'd rather clinton than obama... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgt6YQiZTkc thats my fav youtube video, it also explains a decent amount of what I think of him. Yes it is pretty much sarcasm etc etc. But I'm going with McCain because, hes the republican in the race and hes got what I'm looking for plus, hes actually done stuff, more stuff compared to clinton and obama.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: krbe Since primaries, caucasuses and polls all are terribly bad to predict the final outcome of the nmination, we could also take a look at the prediction markets:

https://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/fairmontdevelopment/clinton.png

https://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/fairmontdevelopment/obama.png

The Clinton price has increased considerably the last days, while Obama is experiencing a dip, though 73.6 is still alot. quote>

That was great.

[Micah 16]

My final prediction for the primaries and, so far, I've been right to a point... I messed up that Clinton would win the whole night. I knew Clinton couldn't be written off so easily and, no matter how many TV people say the next state will be the deciding factor... it won't! The superdelegates at the convention will decide.

And my final correction for the general elections:

McCain will not be able to compete if Hillary and Obama become one ticket. His age will hurt him as well when people are looking for someone to vote for.

I might have to re-adjust my perceptions about Texans.quote>

Excuse me!

Don't mistake VT as an average Texan. LOL!

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: The Boy. But I'm going with McCain because, hes the republican in the race and hes got what I'm looking for plus, hes actually done stuff, more stuff compared to clinton and obama.quote>

I like McCains Pro-Nuclear stance, but his strategy for Iraq is dire; he's hell bent on winning no matter the cost. The US has suffered enough in Iraq and its about time it ended... i'm not saying 'give up' though... Iraq still needs direction and security.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: Micah

And my final correction for the general elections:

McCain will not be able to compete if Hillary and Obama become one ticket. His age will hurt him as well when people are looking for someone to vote for.

quote>

 

Not so fast...McCain is a war hero. While the youth vote gets the press, the older generations turn out to a much stronger degree. Those older than the Baby Boomers cannot resist a war hero. And they turn out huge in November.

McCain is also one of the cleanest politicians in the business. Unsubstantiated hit pieces in the NYT aside, he is remarkably scandal-free. As Hillary's laundry list of ethically-challenged moments gets more light later on, this will become more salient. If the Rezko problem and the lying about certain meetings with foreign gov'ts get too much bigger for Obama, it could be a dealbreaker for enough people to sink them both.

It is this reputation that helped me get around the policy differences I might otherwise have with MCain. If I can reasonably sure about a candidate's personal integrity, I then have something I can work with. The only times I have ever voted Democrat were based on personal integrity issues. I voted for Glenn Poshard against George Ryan (Governor) in Illinois years ago because I knew Ryan was a crook. Ryan won, but now sits in Federal prison where he belongs.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

Those older than the Baby Boomers cannot resist a war hero. And they turn out huge in November.

quote>

They do indeed.  and many states are making sure that they continue to turn out huge.

My parents are an excellent example.  They are in their 80s and don't get around so well anymore.  The ice storm we had on election day wasn't a problem for them.  The assisted living facility where they live is also their polling place.  They just had to go downstairs to the multi-purpose room.  Didn't have to put on their coats or go outside at all.

Meanwhile, I was working at my local elementary school, waiting for an evening rush that never happened because everyone was stuck in traffic on the icy roads.  They extended voting hours for 90 minutes, during which time we had a grand total of 4 people.

[ilikehotdogsalot 311]

Originally posted by: El Burro

Originally posted by: The Boy. But I'm going with McCain because, hes the republican in the race and hes got what I'm looking for plus, hes actually done stuff, more stuff compared to clinton and obama.quote>

I like McCains Pro-Nuclear stance, but his strategy for Iraq is dire; he's hell bent on winning no matter the cost. The US has suffered enough in Iraq and its about time it ended... i'm not saying 'give up' though... Iraq still needs direction and security.quote>

You mean the fact he would support staying in Iraq for 100 years if he has to?

[Frankie_Grove 32]

Originally posted by: ilikehotdogsalot

Originally posted by: El Burro

Originally posted by: The Boy. But I'm going with McCain because, hes the republican in the race and hes got what I'm looking for plus, hes actually done stuff, more stuff compared to clinton and obama.quote>

I like McCains Pro-Nuclear stance, but his strategy for Iraq is dire; he's hell bent on winning no matter the cost. The US has suffered enough in Iraq and its about time it ended... i'm not saying 'give up' though... Iraq still needs direction and security.quote>

You mean the fact he would support staying in Iraq for 100 years if he has to? quote>

Probably not. However, wars lasting more than 100 years have happened in the past.

[Zelgadis 638]

Clinton won the Texas primary, but right now, Obama is winning the Texas caucus. Obama may end up getting more delegates out of Texas in the end.

I do hope that Michigan and Florida do not get their delegates seated. The candidates agreed not to campaign there. One could argue that Florida should have theirs seated, but seating Michigan's would be unfair as Obama wasn't even on the ballot.

A re-vote would be fair, but the logistics of that make it, unfortunately, impossible.

ISF

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

YouTube caught red-handed sabotaging Ron Paul, from a family member that passed it along.

[link]

Warning...it ends as a long campaign speech by Ron Paul. Just so you know.

[The Boy 0]

Originally posted by: Frankie_Grove

Originally posted by: ilikehotdogsalot

Originally posted by: El Burro

Originally posted by: The Boy. But I'm going with McCain because, hes the republican in the race and hes got what I'm looking for plus, hes actually done stuff, more stuff compared to clinton and obama.quote>

I like McCains Pro-Nuclear stance, but his strategy for Iraq is dire; he's hell bent on winning no matter the cost. The US has suffered enough in Iraq and its about time it ended... i'm not saying 'give up' though... Iraq still needs direction and security.quote>

You mean the fact he would support staying in Iraq for 100 years if he has to? quote>

Probably not. However, wars lasting more than 100 years have happened in the past.quote>

I do agree in a way with you El Burro, I think that we need to be out of Iraq, but not in a surrendering way, and until its over with and we can let them finish. I've seen that they are making HUGE progress over there, espically with the Army Corps of Engineers rebuilding the city, I know someone who's over there doing security for cranes and stuff he basically sits on top of a truck all NIGHT with a machine gun (M249) and makes sure no one tries and puts IED's over near them, other than that the construction happens and its going decently well.

Note:  edited to remove derogatory term - ski

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Hmm..., what about that post is likely to attract a mod's attention? Careful, dude. This is a much wider audience than the barracks. 

I turned down a job offer to weld armor on Humvees in Iraq. Even at $10,000USD per month, it just wasn't that tempting. Money is no use to a corpse.

[Micah 16]

Originally posted by: manticorefan

Originally posted by: Micah

And my final correction for the general elections:

McCain will not be able to compete if Hillary and Obama become one ticket. His age will hurt him as well when people are looking for someone to vote for.

quote>

 

Not so fast...McCain is a war hero. While the youth vote gets the press, the older generations turn out to a much stronger degree. Those older than the Baby Boomers cannot resist a war hero. And they turn out huge in November.

McCain is also one of the cleanest politicians in the business. Unsubstantiated hit pieces in the NYT aside, he is remarkably scandal-free. As Hillary's laundry list of ethically-challenged moments gets more light later on, this will become more salient. If the Rezko problem and the lying about certain meetings with foreign gov'ts get too much bigger for Obama, it could be a dealbreaker for enough people to sink them both.

It is this reputation that helped me get around the policy differences I might otherwise have with MCain. If I can reasonably sure about a candidate's personal integrity, I then have something I can work with. The only times I have ever voted Democrat were based on personal integrity issues. I voted for Glenn Poshard against George Ryan (Governor) in Illinois years ago because I knew Ryan was a crook. Ryan won, but now sits in Federal prison where he belongs.quote>

 

Indeed. This is what McCain has going for him:

The conservative base, although they generally hate McCain, will vote for him because they consider him the lesser of the two (or three?) evils. And trust me, just because they don't like McCain doesn't mean they won't vote because most conversatives that I know believe that it is irresponsible not to vote and that you'd be allowing an unGodly person into office.

McCain is definitely the most experienced when it comes to war. Clinton and Obama can sit in their congressional seats all day long and can say how to run the war, but McCain has been there and done that. A war hero leading a war? What a concept, right?

McCain appears to be clean, but I do believe that recent lobbiest report hurt him, if only for a minute.

He's in the middle. Definitely a win-win in my book. He's not a far-out liberal like Obama or an extreme-right conservative like Huckabee.

However, what will hurt him is:

A Clinton-Obama ticket will unite all the Democrats and will bring personality and experience into one vote.

His age.

He isn't considered strong when it comes to the economy. He's mainly known for defense, not economical matters which he needs to begin telling people what he did as a senator in Arizona for its economy. If the slowdown continues, that will hurt McCain, in my opinion. 

I think we'll see in the summer that the Democratic candidate (whoever that is) will have a double digit lead over McCain; however, once it is 2 to 3 months closer to the elections, it will be close to 50/50 as seen in the 2004 elections.

[belfastuniguy 18]

I think a Hillary-Obama ticket (which I am starting to think is very possible) would hurt McCain a great deal.

The super delegates are going to decide this and a larger number are more likely to back Clinton, though it will be very tight. McCain getting the support of Bush is a benefit in some aspects but also a possible campaign destroyer as well, any connection with Bush could easily turn more 'liberal' (I use that word loosely) republicans and many independents off McCain and badly damage him. So that support could be more of a disadvantage than an advantage.

The fact remains that Hillary has won all large states bar Obama's home state...I think this is somewhat important and the fact last minute voters vote for her when marking that ballot paper.

I am really starting to think that maybe, just maybe Hillary could be selected and Obama picked as her VP on the ticket. In that case I think we shall see a democrat in the White House come January 2009....still annoyed that Bush stays till 2009 and can't be kicked out immediately

That's just my view, could be totally wrong in a few months time, no ones, that's the beauty of elections and democracy....well proper democracy

[Easy Bakes 253]

As to a Clinton -Obama ticket, has there ever been 2 front runers in a party who ended on the same ticket recently?

Always seem the one who wins choses someone else.

[Zelgadis 638]

I think the Reagan/Bush ticket was like that.

ISF

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Wanna know who the next president will be? Look for George Shultz. He'll be somewhere in the vicinity of the candidate who will win. He's how I  knew Bush would win before Algore had secured the nomination back in 2000. I told people in June 2000 that no matter what, Bush would be president. 

The anti-Bush outrage is misguided. Bush is a figurehead for people who never appear on the front page. Cheney isn't even the problem. It is the George Schultzes, Henry Kissingers, and Maurice Strongs of the world that are doing the damage. And no one notices, they just focus on Bush. People say he's an idiot in one breath, and then accuse him of single-handedly moving world oil markets and planning 9/11 in the next. The two cannot both be true.

I have seen some things lately that really trouble me about McCain. I'm starting to really worry about the next president, no matter who it is. Those who worry about the perils of Globalism on both the Right and the Left have much to be afraid of.

[belfastuniguy 18]

McCain is starting to worry me a little as well. I'm sorry but America does not need another war monger with no experience or education in economic matters. America is in a delicate position both domestically and on the international front as well. Whether people like it or not, that is just the reality.

To be honest all the candidates have their problems and neither are the perfect option, I don't think such a thing could exist though.

[Micah 16]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy McCain is starting to worry me a little as well. I'm sorry but America does not need another war monger with no experience or education in economic matters. America is in a delicate position both domestically and on the international front as well. Whether people like it or not, that is just the reality.

To be honest all the candidates have their problems and neither are the perfect option, I don't think such a thing could exist though.quote>

 

Exactly. That was one of the points I said would hurt McCain. He either needs to come up with more plans, cover what he did for Arizona's economy, or get a VP that has a great deal of knowledge when it comes to the handling of the economy.

[krbe 193]

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: krbe

http://clipart.peirceinternet.com/png/baseball-and-mitt.png

quote>

....that was a bit of a stretch. Good effort, though.

[hym 358]

Obama claims "[he] is...not running for vice president."  Should make the coming months more interesting.

[Micah 16]

Haha... great find.

You know, this can turn either extremely bad or extremely positive for the Democrats in these two scenarios:

Bad: Obama wins delegate count and popular vote; however, Clinton wins the superdelegates which propells her to the nomination. That would piss off so many Democrats on Obama's side that I think it would be unimagineable for the Democrats to come together by November.

Good: Whether it be Clinton or Obama as the winner of the nomination, they form a ticket together which would greatly unite the party.

We'll have to see what happens.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I dont see Clinton supporting a clinton/obama ticket with out her being the Presidential nominee

[Joetropian1 1]

Go Clinton!

I heard Obama mocked Clinton as people are saying she might make him her VP. It's all over the news.

JT1