[+Guest]

NOTE::  The predictable out come of this Thread::  It will either get deleted (or closed), and I will get banned...  OR...  It will remain open, and many Users will aggressively disagree, while the silent masses will be afraid to speak their voice...  Either way, this is still the TRUTH...

---

---

The underlying issue that

[+Guest]

  https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/search.asp?mode=search&words=%22&options=0010&author=Rude+Boy&forum=all&date=&p=2

[edmund 0]

OK now this is getting out of hand

I have been here in the back ground from almost the start

 

but I am no computer genius the apperance of the stex I thought was the best thing since sliced bread

 

but I just could understand the attitudes in these formes

It keeps saying community but all I see is this tight group working with there own ends in mind and letting egos get in the way

 

and  this time it comes down to there has developed a pissing contest between rude boy and admin and moderatiors

 

Dirk or if you prefer MY LORD DIRKANATOR resolve this dispute and let this man get on with his work it is nessicery to many of us serfs in the croud

 

fight on Rude Boy

 

Ston3d4life@hotmail.com

  

[samantha 138]

Just to let you guys know, I fully intend to be the next person to post in this thread, so I am closing it whilst I am composing my thoughts and a response.

 

Cheers!

 

 

[Dirktator 2,324]

First of all, I'd appreciate it if we cut the melodrama, and drop the sarcasm.  If there's going to be discussion, it will be done with civility.  Edmund, your sarcasm toward me undermines your own objectives.

 

So let's be civil.

 

I'd like to remind everyone here that this is an online community for SimCity.  A video game.  If you want to be an activist for oppression, there are far far nobler causes which can be readily found in the real world.  At any rate, let's discuss the topic at hand without the need for dramatics.

 

Bullying & Other Shenanigans

 

In a community this size, with hundreds of active participants, there is going to be friction; someone is going to rub someone else the wrong way some time.  As far as bullying goes, I don't deny that it happens.  I have seen cases of 'bullying' and it's really disappointing.  It's usually perpetrated by 'senior' members ('senior' a term used here only to describe long-standing members, and is not used to denote authority).

 

These members are motivated either by passionate loyalty to the community, or by passionate boredom.  The desire to create strife, just to fabricate a conflict so that there's something of interest to them.  This practice is pathetic, and to those who indulge in this, I plead you to just go away.  If you have no genuine interest in being part of the Simtropolis community any further, please just leave . 

 

The anonymity of the internet, and the size of the community, to be able to hide behind a username and to hide within one of dozens of forums, makes it easy if not tempting to snipe fellow members.

 

It it does happen.  So do temper tantrums, grudge fights and starting bewildering crusades online.

 

The post you refer to about the 16 year old being beat up in a thread because his sig was too long, that thread was actually fine and reasonable, until YOU got involved. 

 

I also categorically disagree with your assessment of SkiGeek.

 

People also have a habit of creating multiple users to further their own cause; and trust us, the administration is absolutely aware of each and everyone of your multiple usernames. 

 

Abusive Moderators & The Oppressed

 

As far as I am personally aware, the assigned moderators of Simtropolis have been doing a good job at keeping their assigned forums in order.  If a moderator rubbed you the wrong way, it is your decision to PM them or an admin about it and explain your case civilly.  If a moderator has abused his or her power than I agree, severe action needs to be taken, and will be taken, as soon as we see some concrete proof evidence of this.  It's easy enough to figure out if they really were in abuse of power, or if you simply were offended at being told what to do and how to behave.

 

I openly request everyone in the community, right now, to PM me (that means PRIVATE message) of cases where they TRULY believe a moderator or an admin has been abusive with their power and position.  If you have something to report, do it in PRIVATE, and report it directly to ME.  If you truly feel oppressed, then PM me, and tell me about it. 

 

Finally, Let's Come to Terms with Reality

 

Finally, I want to remind everyone again, that where you choose to spend your online time and your energy is entirely up to you.  But I sincerely encourage you to re-evaluate your priorities if you believe expending your energy to create dissent in an online community is worth your time and effort.

 

For me, Simtropolis is a great hobby, and it has become much bigger than I ever imagined.  Having said that, it is also still very much a hobby.  It is not a lifestyle.  But that doesn't mean I don't care about it deeply, I do.  I have made some great friends here, and have had some unique experiences.  I wouldn't trade that in for anything, but what makes me want to throw in the towel is seeing more and more of this kind of melodrama and being consistantly disappointed in long-standing members who I feel ought to know better. 

 

Don't bring crusades into this community, it will only cause me to resent you for polluting my online home with unnecessary conflict and divisiveness.  Be clear of thought, precise of word, and civil in how you relate to me and everyone else, and I will listen and take action as appropriate. 

 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

 

 

PS - Further discussion about any of the topics is encouraged here, but sniping or any lapse in civility will mean your immediate removal from this community. 

[masher 3]

Hmmm nice!...I discovered...nonono not discovered....realized!...yes that sounds better...that, even if threads like this call for a stop to all of this...insert bad word here....the attitudes of some members will not change!...their egos are too big!!...they will calm down for a bit...but months later...BAM!...there we go again..it's a cycle...i dunno...i might sound negative....but i've seen it before...
I'v been here...for almost a year...and I used to be very active and newbie-like(I still am so..)...But it's quite disapointing , and sad,to think that some people are willing to do here the things that they can't do in real life!!..bad things not good things!......
I feel bad when a new member asks a question, even if it have been asked before, and i can't answer it....then these senior members walk in and in groups starts insulting or attacking the new member..
So it's like...Ok....You got all this knowledge...you've been here for a while...then why not help the new people?.....yes yes yes...But they ask stupid things over and over again!!!...SO?...didn't you when you were new?...and it's not over and over again....(well sometimes it is..)...
But you all have to remember that Simtropolis' population keeps growing!..and maybe last week someone asked me how to load a map into game...then today someone else asked me the same thing...I don't know if you are getting my point here...but i still help them!...it's a new fan of the game...they are learning....damn it!!
Anyway....Just treat others as you would like to be treated and we will all get a long!!!...
Or else....

[The Evil Octopus Man 25]

Good post Masher.

while I dont' think that the moderators are out of control, there are quite a few who, were it up to me, would not be moderators.

Is the thread that Rude Boy is describing still around? Could I get a link to it?

[MrCinatit 30]

well, i hate to break this too everyone, but i am only human.

yes, that is correct...MrCinatit is only human. he has made huge mistakes in the past. he is a classic underacheiver. he is a computer geek who spends almost all of his spare time on a couple of computers - yet knows remarkably little about computers.

yes, i do have people i have hung around with here. it is because i trust them, and enjoy their online company. this is natural...on an online community many people are going to be bound together in groups of similar interst. most of mine are in the City Journals section, because of the great amount of enjoyment i get from that particular section.

there are people who hang around RudeBoy. do i mistrust them and loath them? absolutely not - one in particular comments frequently in many journals, something which gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. 'tis the natural ways an online community reacts - the BATters hang with the BATters, the Modder with the modders, the CJers with the CJers and so on.

we also must realize, this is an internet community. our personal lives are our own personal lives. if i chose to live the life i chose, that is my choice. actually, our personal lives are completely irrelevant here. there are people half my age who i feel have contributed more to this site than i will ever contribute. they have given so much to the community, and added so much enjoyment to the game, their age, sex nor nationality matter not a bit. age, sex, nationality, our place of employment, our post count, or our time on the site - these mean nothing here. IMHO, personality does.

 

i was surprised and honored to get this position. NEVER saw it coming, really didn't consider it as an even remote posibility. once again, here i have made a few mistakes - but once again, i am human. i will willingly admit to any mistake.

at the same time, if i have ever gone across the line, i expect my fellow moderators, i expect the administrators, i expect Dirk, and i expect the rest of the community to let me know. of ANYONE feels like i am picking on me, let me know - preferably via PM. no need to air dirty laundry for everyone to see. if you don't feel comfortable telling me, then i expect you to let one of the adminstrators or Dirk to know instead. i make mistakes. some, i don't even know about...i expect to be told about them.

 

[Joesocwork 4]

Date: 5/29/2005 8:25:22 PM Author: The Evil Octopus Man ... while I dont' think that the moderators are 'out of control', there are quite a few who, were it up to me, would not be moderators...

I never find it comfortable posting after Dirk, but I did want to write the following sooner or later & TEOM's post was a convenient place to insert this:

As a staff member I've discovered at least two things of note for here:

1) Just like in my real life job (I'm clinical social worker & supervisor/manager in child welfare), or even like as a Sim City mayor for that matter, if a staff member is liked by everybody then they probably aren't doing their job as effectively as they should; and

 

2) The ways of the Dirktatorship are indeed mysterious.  No matter what, it's Dirk's site and we are all guests who are either enjoy membership or serve as volunteers at his pleasure. 

[samantha 138]

 

I have read your post carefully Rude Boy, and I'm sure the other administrators and moderators have done so also.  These are points I feel you have raised, and as such, I have tried my best to respond to them honestly.  

 

Concerning SkiGeek -

 

And her

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

I don't have a long speech, but I think the moderators and admins do a fine job around here.  We may not be perfect, but we do our best to maintain order around here.

If you have any problems with the way things are run here, PM a moderator or admin.  Our doors are always open.

[masher 3]

IMO I think the moderators at this site have a harder time than the ones at SSC ,as an example..why?...
Most of the members here are kids....so they are harder to deal with...I've never feel offended by them...well...when I first got here I was kinda scared of Aronion tho...

[Cjah 15]

I just want to say I'm the 16 year old guy he helped.....

I want to thank rude boy.And also I was banned for no reason.I was banned for 7 hours.Like I said no reason.

Anyway some of you admin out there are great and do a good job others well I best not say or I'll end up banned like today....

And DEV I'm just glad you decided to focus your ranting power else where tonight...Its music to my eyes....

[Cjah 15]

I just want to know what anyone gained by me being banned for the day???

The only thing I've done wrong today was agree with Rude Boy...

 

I say that in a calm voice....I'm not angry I just want answers.....

[+Guest]

Date: 5/30/2005 2:04:10 AM Author: Cjah

I just want to know what anyone gained by me being banned for the day???

The only thing I've done wrong today was agree with Rude Boy...

I say that in a calm voice....I'm not angry I just want answers.....

quote>


(...SSSHHHHHH...!!!)

[jarlaxledarogue 0]

This is just a personal observation from a STEX fan, not a BSC person, just a fan of the site. Its an online site for a computer game, period. There are better things in life to do than argue over online activities. Be it smut or no smut, a long thread etc. Everyone must remember its a computer and while there are online friends, its still a computer. Real life is forever a computer is a hobby. Take it from a gentleman who almost lost his life and is now in a wheelchair. Please be kind and if those who have nothing nice to say, please say nothing at all. Its much more appealing to read fourms with a happy trend than a forum that makes everyone at the site side one way or another. I am in the middle as I love the site, the help from everyone when I have a problem is always great and as for the moderators, they have done a wonderful job in keeping the site as free as they can from personal attacks. Keep up the good work all and long live the STEX.

[MrCinatit 30]

Date: 5/30/2005 3:22:52 AM Author: jarlaxledarogue This is just a personal observation from a STEX fan, not a BSC person, just a fan of the site. Its an online site for a computer game, period. There are better things in life to do than argue over online activities. Be it smut or no smut, a long thread etc. Everyone must remember its a computer and while there are online friends, its still a computer. Real life is forever a computer is a hobby. Take it from a gentleman who almost lost his life and is now in a wheelchair. Please be kind and if those who have nothing nice to say, please say nothing at all. Its much more appealing to read fourms with a happy trend than a forum that makes everyone at the site side one way or another. I am in the middle as I love the site, the help from everyone when I have a problem is always great and as for the moderators, they have done a wonderful job in keeping the site as free as they can from personal attacks. Keep up the good work all and long live the STEX.

quote>

this has to be one of the most wonderful posts i have read in a long time, jarlaxledarogue - and i say that not as a mod, but as a person who also loves this site dearly. these are, indeed, great words to live by, words which people should cherish and live by...myself included. thank you for that.

[EmergentFungus 29]

I see where Rude Boy is coming from and as a past mod I know what it was like. We did gang up now and again but not in a very bad way, just to back one another up on the rules. I don't agree with some of the users being moderators here, they're just not up to it but then again, some of you admins might say the same about me.

 

Anyway, its been said  amillion times... If you have trouble, PM a modmin. By starting a thread like this you cause more problems than you solve them.

 

Some people on this site take everything WAY too seriously. They seem to think its like a real ...erm... 'government' ruling a city if you will. Everyone is just too PC to have any fun.

 

SO yea, leave them modmins alone... most of them do a good job.

[+Guest]

Date: 5/30/2005 4:44:52 AM Author: EmergentFungus

most of them do a good job.

quote>

Agreed...  Most of them DO, do a good job...  I never said all... 

[Equinox 1,211]

Interesting thread.  Two comments.

It's funny when people develop such large egos they see themselves as important.  I don't see myself as sufficiently important to make any sort of criticism like this; don't see how anyone not at least an administrator could, really.  Nonetheless, I suppose from specific points of view, your argument holds validity - I'm not putting you down, just observing.

Overall, I'd say Dev summed it up best ...
Read and obey forum rules and you shouldn't have a problem with any bashing.

[ephorex_77 0]

Looking at this thread, the first thing I noted was the amount of almost palpable anger and a sense of underlying frustration. It's all hidden under euphemistic phrases and words, but IMO, it's all there. It's really all very unnerving. This sort of a thread should never have surfaced in the first place. I've found ST to be an amazing place ever since I joined (and a little before then too ) and I've always respected the arbitrariness and tolerance with which the admins and mods weeded out dissidents (repeatedly contumacious ones of course) and redirected the lost $%&^!.

 

I happen to have had seen the thread mentioned and replied there too. But I didn't really witness the bashing of the afore-mentioned person by mods or admins, though I confess it might have had happened after I left the thread and/or I just didn't notice it. However, I did notice that the admins and mods involved were pretty fair in their judgement about the length of his signature. It was a perfectly legitimate request to shorten the signature though, in my opinion at least, a touch bruesque. The admins and mods involved were in the right then and I don't think the 'attacked' member was all too greatly affected by it (it really spruced up his image ).

 

That said, I've noticed a general decline in tolerance and, to quote Dirk, civility with which 'senior' members conduct themselves when it comes to noobs. IMO, there seems to be a sort of unofficial clique system on ST where admins, mods and some senior members seem, on account of their rough posts and authoritative disposition, a little distant and disconnected to the more inexperienced members of ST. Why, even during the 'good old days' when ST was a friendlier place (at least to me ), I was scared of such dignitaries such as Aronian, Sharr, Skigeek and Dirk (still am ). I know that I can't really express such views with as much conviction as I could had I been a member earlier, but that's what I feel currently.

 

There are so many great admins and mods out there who do a great job helping the community and directing noobs to the best of their ability, and there are those who are a 'touch out of touch' (!! ). Mod status is not merely about the ability to close threads and vet posts, it's also about commitment and dedication to ST and its many members. It is, as samantha mentioned, a thankless job and a great challenge. With such a vast community, hostility and animosity amongst its members is a forseeable consequence.

 

I think that all this can be traced back to a lack of basic manners and patience which was exactly what prompted the creation of another earlier (though not quite as high profile) thread about bullying on ST. My reply to that thread is pasted below and please note, some of the points I've covered above are mentioned below again due to the similarity between the two threads.

 

Hope I haven't been rambling on too much , but I feel that this is a rather pressing issue facing ST today. I'd rather we revert to the good old ST of yesteryear instead of bickering over the subtleties of the issue on this thread and inciting more unnecessary anger towards each other. After all, we're just here to have fun!! (within the rules of course ). Whew, now that that's said, I should really get back to my studying for the five exams coming up this week .

 

 

 

This thread wasn't here yesterday but it's already got 2 pages of replies filled with comments by so many mods and admins!! Boggles the mind, but I knew a thread like this one would surface one day, it was just a matter of courage.

Anyway, I've been here a while and one thing I've noticed is that the general level of tolerance for redundant threads has decreased dramatically. I remember the community of old (seems like a while ago ), where people would post threads that if, were redundant, would be closed, albeit with some nice comments to soothe the indignation, or whatever the $%&^! felt.

 

I also remember when mods and admins would actively participate in threads and would actually post helpful replies or when applicable, a honey-coated piece of constructive criticism. Maybe it's due to time constraints and/or the number of repeat threads posted but still, courtesy is an integral part of ST and is what makes this community so great.  Perhaps if it's due to the problems mentioned, why not appoint more mods to share the workload??

 

I dug up some old (think January-March  2003) threads and the first thing that struck me was the amount of playful, fun banter that was posted, a large proportion of it by admins and mods. Granted, noobs here may repeat the same mistake again and again, but it's vitally important to remember that you're not dealing with a repeat offender. If you (an admin or mod) gave the first $%&^! a nice reply, what's there stopping you from giving the 1000th $%&^! who makes the same mistake the same, equally nice reply?? The 1000th $%&^!, like the first $%&^!, made an honest mistake or was blithely ignorant and should be treated with the same courtesy given to the firsy $%&^!.  Emotions like anger and frustration should not be directed at an innocent $%&^!, who, through no conscious fault of his own, got on the wrong side of you. 

 

Granted, people should read the rules first but for some (me included), ST is/was the first online community they've every participated in and they don't know the intricacies of forum etiquette or some of the more esoteric of the rules. I'm lucky in the fact that I only became an active member about a month and a half ago and so knew the basic procedures, but even I quailed when it came to posting something that contradicted (however slight) an admin or mod.

 

G4ce made a particularly trenchant point. The $%&^! you tell off today might have been the NDEX or skigeek of tomorrow (no offence meant at the comparision NDEX and skigeek ).

 

On the flip side, admins and mods have the power and the responsibilty to rein in offending posters and the occasional troll that strays through the sacred gates of ST, and members should show respect on account of their greater experience and better judgement.

 

Btw Dolfan348488 , such a comment was precipitate given that there are sometimes mitigating circumstances when noobs break forum rules. . And I have been here since September 2003 unlike SC4 meister (no offence meant SC4meister).

 

*whew*...my longest post yet

 

 

[+Guest]

Date: 5/30/2005 3:22:52 AM Author: jarlaxledarogue

This is just a personal observation from a STEX fan, not a BSC person, just a fan of the site. Its an online site for a computer game, period. There are better things in life to do than argue over online activities. Be it smut or no smut, a long thread etc. Everyone must remember its a computer and while there are online friends, its still a computer. Real life is forever a computer is a hobby. Take it from a gentleman who almost lost his life and is now in a wheelchair. Please be kind and if those who have nothing nice to say, please say nothing at all. Its much more appealing to read fourms with a happy trend than a forum that makes everyone at the site side one way or another. I am in the middle as I love the site, the help from everyone when I have a problem is always great and as for the moderators, they have done a wonderful job in keeping the site as free as they can from personal attacks. Keep up the good work all and long live the STEX.

 

I agree with you whole-heartedly... 

Real life (or rather, the Soul) is forever, and a computer is a hobby (or for some of us, a career)...

To take it from a gentleman who almost lost his life and is now in a wheelchair...  I understand you in this aspect as well...   I as well have returned from death, and have spent a considerable amount of time in my wheelchair as well...  I am such a strong advocate of the appreciation of life, and the manner in which we as a society treat one another...

To explain, such that you don

[halo_lover 1]

I really do want to say something here. I really do. But given my past history and the like, I've learned sometimes it's just better to shut up. Not to say I don't agree with you, Rudeboy. But believe me, you'll lose. I learned my lesson the hard way.

[+Guest]

Date: 5/30/2005 7:39:12 AM Author: halo_lover I really do want to say something here.  I really do.  But given my past history and the like, I've learned sometimes it's just better to shut up.  Not to say I don't agree with you, Rudeboy.  But believe me, you'll lose.  I learned my lesson the hard way.

quote>

 

OHHHH...  I DO believe you...

All I've been trying to do is get everybody to lighten up on the New Comers...  

 

Now, I'm being treated as if I was Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein...

 

Go figure...?!?

[Dirktator 2,324]

jarlaxledarogue  - Very well put, I appreciate those comments.

 

ephorex_77 - One of the most sensible posts (and posters) I've seen, I agree with your assessments completely. 

Rude Boy - I appreciate the latter half of your post and your points make sense.  I'm pleased we are able to discuss things with some level-headedness. 

 

Does it matter if someone's signature is too long in the greater scheme of Life?  Of course not, but in an online community, you are part of a microcosm shared by many others, and if rules and guidelines apply to them, they apply to everyone.  A gentle nudge in the right direction is usually all that it takes - like I said, some people take it the wrong way, or they simply don't like being told what to do, and others give nudges that are more pointed than it should be, some intended, some aren't; these are fallabilities found in all of us, and simply a desire to perturb in others (and those people will be dealt with appropriately).

 

We have been dealing with 'bullying' issues for some months now, and things are improving.  Your points and your post will revitalize that effort I assure you.

 

Appreciate your feedback, guys, as always...

 

To everyone else, the challenge extends to you:  Be curteous to new-posters, point them in the right direction, and step up if you see issues with 'bullying'.  By volunteering to help, in little ways you contribute to this community in big ways...

 

Moderators and admins have never been appointed simply by length of membership, they are usually found by their volunteer work as mentioned above.  If you've got it in you then show it...  

[MayorVieira 1]

See? Seems like we CAN express our opinions freely in this site after all... as long as we're polite and respect the rules.

The moderators and administrators are not 7-headed monsters... we are actually nice people... no reason to be scared of any of us. No one here trying to abuse their powers, since we don't have any special powers in the first place.

 

Let me remind you... nobody is better than anybody here... regardless of how hard we have worked and what we have achieved, be it here or in real life.

[vidioman 21]

What we need to do is amend and better inforce the rules. we also have to make a more efficient way of reporting problems with bullying. Not only bullying from other members, but bullying from moderators as well. I've seen many cases where moderators turn sour and start taking over parts of forums, banning people left and right, for practically no reason (at SSC, that reason is uaully because they are too conservative) so it isn't just other members, it's also moderators. We need more people keeping an eye on the people keeping an eye on people.

[+Guest]

Date: 5/30/2005 9:50:12 AM Author: dirk

jarlaxledarogue  - Very well put, I appreciate those comments.

ephorex_77 - One of the most sensible posts (and posters) I've seen, I agree with your assessments completely. 

Rude Boy - I appreciate the latter half of your post and your points make sense.  I'm pleased we are able to discuss things with some level-headedness. 

Does it matter if someone's signature is too long in the greater scheme of Life?  Of course not, but in an online community, you are part of a microcosm shared by many others, and if rules and guidelines apply to them, they apply to everyone.  A gentle nudge in the right direction is usually all that it takes - like I said, some people take it the wrong way, or they simply don't like being told what to do, and others give nudges that are more pointed than it should be, some intended, some aren't; these are fallabilities found in all of us, and simply a desire to perturb in others (and those people will be dealt with appropriately).

We have been dealing with 'bullying' issues for some months now, and things are improving.  Your points and your post will revitalize that effort I assure you.

Appreciate your feedback, guys, as always...

To everyone else, the challenge extends to you:  Be curteous to new-posters, point them in the right direction, and step up if you see issues with 'bullying'.  By volunteering to help, in little ways you contribute to this community in big ways...

Moderators and admins have never been appointed simply by length of membership, they are usually found by their volunteer work as mentioned above.  If you've got it in you then show it...  

Dirk...  Bro...  I

[Chris M 406]

I have lurked around this thread, and I must say Mr. Cinatit and SkiGeek are both very friendly members of the community. I have never had any problems with both of them, so I know if you have then there was a good reason why. In my experiences with SkiGeek, I know she is very fair and true, as far as Mr. Cinatit is the same. I know that dirk wouldn't of made SkiGeek a admininstartor, and Mr. Cinatit a moderator if he did not know that they are both friendly and likeable members of the community. I am sorry you have had problems but I can assure you that they must of been a reason why.

[+Guest]

Date: 5/30/2005 11:47:55 AM Author: DragonAnime I have lurked around this thread, and I must say Mr. Cinatit and SkiGeek are both very friendly members of the community. I have never had any problems with both of them, so I know if you have then there was a good reason why. In my experiences with SkiGeek, I know she is very fair and true, as far as Mr. Cinatit is the same. I know that dirk wouldn't of made SkiGeek a admininstartor, and Mr. Cinatit a moderator if he did not know that they are both friendly and likeable members of the community. I am sorry you have had problems but I can assure you that they must of been a reason why.

quote>

 

You can assure me...??   How...??