We Survived!

[Voar Tok 4]

I'm sure many of you have seen the following email, and after having received it for the umpteenth time along with various admonishment about all the problems with the generation of the 80s and 90s, I have to get something off my chest.  (Yes, this is a rant).

What follows isn't directed at any specific person, but more at a mindset.

Before I start, I want to make a warning that anyone who intensely believes that generations from the 30s through the 70s were the absolute best there ever was, it would be good for you to turn back now.  You don't want to read what I have to say.

With that said, here goes.

TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's!!

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant. quote>

Surviving is a good thing.  Research has shone that it's really easy to cause permanent damage to a baby if you do this, so I'm glad you made it out ok.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes. quote>

And?  This is supposed to be a good thing?  It seems like 110% of the variations of these things are all touting some sort of self-gratification.  Being proud to survive that would be like being proud to survive a napalm attack.  Just because you lived doesn't mean everyone is a wuss for trying to do something to avoid it later on.

Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-based paints. quote>

Again I say, why on earth are you going on about this?  It's obvious that all this email is saying is "we survived, so why does your generation complain about putting up with what we had to put up with?"  Because, we since found out from your generation that sleeping on your stomach can result in SIDS.  Don't even get me started on issues like lead-based paint, because it's pretty obvious you ate more than your share of it.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking.quote>

So safety features designed to protect an infant or small child from themselves or easily preventable injury are all categorically bad?  As for the hitchhiking thing, I believe that your generation is the one that is our parents, and would<

[coolotter88 2]

[sarcasm] yes "Think of the Children" [/sarcasm]

well, I suppose since enough of you guys survived, these "think of the children" laws weren't really necessary.

actually, I hate the extremely inane "think of the children" laws, you know what? they're extremely annoying and we're just raising a bunch of children who have had too many laws protecting them. They fell off their bike and scraped their knee, whoop dee doo, it'll heal, they'll have a scar, they'll probably be more careful next time and avoid the tree or something.

[Ad Hominem] oh eating lots of sugar does not cause diabetes, don't argue with me because you're wrong if you think otherwise. [/Ad Hominem]

[Zelgadis 638]

I've seen those things before, and while I think that some things in it are a little over the top, I do like it. The writer is using exaggeration and sarcasm to make a point. It's not for the younger generation to really understand at all. I'm a '70's child and I do have to reach deep into my childhood to remember these things, but I do remember them. And I'm still alive.

Boiling it down, sometimes we ruin kids' lives by protecting them too much. And we have already reached a point where half of the toys I used to play with are now illegal to sell because a half a dozen nitwit kids somewhere on the planet managed to poke their eyes out with it. Lucky me though, because I never sold my lawn darts. Ha!

ISF

[hamsterTK 93]

20 years from now when I am turning 40, I wonder what sort of comments I will be at least be thinking when I remember how things were in the good old days of the 1990's.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: zelgadis

Boiling it down, sometimes we ruin kids' lives by protecting them too much.

quote>

Thank you, zel.   That was the point of the whole thing.

The "target" of these emails is actually the helicopter parents, the ones who are raising the bubble wrap generation.

Basically, it's using lots of RL examples to point out that many parents these days have lived through X, Y, and Z and have come out of it just fine but have declared those activities too dangerous for their children.  It is designed to smack the parents upside the head, not the overprotected kids.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: zelgadis

Boiling it down, sometimes we ruin kids' lives by protecting them too much.

quote>

Thank you, zel.   That was the point of the whole thing.

The "target" of these emails is actually the helicopter parents, the ones who are raising the bubble wrap generation.

Basically, it's using lots of RL examples to point out that many parents these days have lived through X, Y, and Z and have come out of it just fine but have declared those activities too dangerous for their children.  It is designed to smack the parents upside the head, not the overprotected kids.quote>

Exactly.  The thing is that I've gotten this email from half a dozen adults, and all of them forwarded it to me along with some sort of message that made it clear they had totally missed the point of this.

So I posted to try to help set the record straight.

[zane900 1]

And straight the record is.

From my point of view, "Those who don't know history and doomed to repeat it." And with any luck this thread will help nail down what this message is saying, and will help secure that we don't ruin any more childhoods.

[hamsterTK 93]

yes, your probably right

I sometimes wonder if we are the ones who are going to screw up the internet.

[BlondeTwiggy 43]

LOL that was a funny read VT. Sometimes its good to just rant. and you make good points.

Ive found that time tends to romanticize things, dont know if thats the right word, but yeah.

They make things sound like they were great "back then," my parents are always like, "I survived all my childhood summers without air conditioning, so stop complaining, blah blah" Like it's my fault nobody had A/C when they were kids.

Yeah, those sound like "good old days" all right.  lol

[ShortStraw 1]

I've gotten that same email or some variation of it half a dozen times or so.  I must admit, I missed the point of it.  I never quite realized it was a warning to overprotective parents.  I'm one of those who just took it to be a "grouchy rant" against "these darned kids today" by some curmudgeon who viewed the "good old days" through rose colored lenses.

Still, I found it entertaining because generation gaps are interesting to me anyway.  I was raised in the 1970's and don't think I ever sat in a car seat (though my younger brother did).  In my own humble opinion, most of the "safety measures" referred to in that email came about as a result of the "Baby Boomer" population explosion.   As the baby boomers came of age they hit the road in cars and trucks and those absurd VW micro vans and such.  The resulting increase in traffic density lead to an increase in traffic accidents which lead to automotive safety features such as air bags, car seats and such.

The same principle can be applied to most of what the emailer is saying.  Baby Boomers saw their parents falling ill and dying from heart disease (#1 Killer, heh) and diabetes and so they started looking for healthier food alternatives.

If I were a decade or two younger then I would no doubt agree with every word of Voar Toks rant.  As it is, I can totally sympathize.  I have a teenage child and a I know a number of people with children.  Nearly every kid I know spends some time with video games and on the internet but from what I've seen these kids aren't spending ALL their time zoned out in front of a TV or PC.  As far as I can tell, most online "kid chat" is between RL friends, kids seem to be acutely aware of the dangers of online predators, and most of the kids I know would rather play with their friends than solo a video game.  My apartment is right next to a playground.  On saturday mornings I wish all those delightfully noisy children would go inside and play video games so I could sleep in, heh.

Anyway, I'll view that email differently the next time it shows up in my Inbox.  Now that I know it's just a jab at overprotective parents it seems much less "crotchety" and offensive.  It's true what they say, sarcasm doesn't translate easily to text.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, being a 1937 model, I guess I am one of the survivors.  However, I helped raise two kids who are now adults living on their own, and we didn't over protect them.

We did, however, try to give them things we didn't have in our lives when we were kids.  We gave them figure skating lessons, music lessons, gym memberships and made sure they went.  They both got higher level swimming badges.  They made a lot of friends both in activities and at school.

They each had their own TV set, and a set of duties, like do your chores before you watch TV, get your homework (if any) done as soon as you can, preferably while still at school because you have skating ice at 4 p.m. and so on.

One of my kids is a science technologist working for a high-tech company that makes diamond coated tool bits.  The other is on long-term disability because of an employment situation that became impossible.  If that's batting .500 I'll take it, but I think we did better than that.  After all, they both want to work.

I am alive because of the advancements in science and medicine since I was born.  When I was a kid I had all the usual childhood diseases:  measles, mumps, chicken pox, scarlet fever.  Thank God I never contracted polio, but it was around.  Some of my kid friends died of it or became disabled.  Give thanks for Dr. Salk.

I am on about 15 drugs that keep me alive and in relative comfort.  Most of them didn't exist when I was a kid. 

I have had heart bypass surgery.  It didn't exist when I was a kid.

I have had two cataracts removed or I would be blind.  I have had three cornea transplants.  None of the ophthalmic work existed when I was a kid.

When I was a kid, the only entertainment that you didn't have to make for yourself was radio and the movies (black and white).  But at least the movies had sound.  Disney's animations in colour came along when I was around five years old.  I loved them.  Cel animation is coming back, folks.  Sometimes old technology is better.

We had rockets when I was a kid.  Isn't it a shame that we still have rockets for propulsion?

We were pretty isolated when I was a kid.  Our world view was controlled by the World War propaganda.  Sure the allies used propaganda.  How do you think I learned to dislike German, and Japanese people, and this was odd because a German family whose kids I played with lived next door (but they were really Canadians).  Our world view has changed to be very, very international, cosmopolitan and accepting.  My daughter is totally colour blind when it comes to her friends.

Over protective parents we will always have with us, with great blame to Dr. Benjamin Spock.  Dr. Spock actually did a retraction before he passed on.  Most intriguing.

The concern of society these days with the rights of children versus teachers and parents is highly disturbing.  Children, until they reach the age of reason at about six or seven years of age on the average, are animals.  They have to be trained.  Cruelty to animals is not good either, but gentle, and sometimes gently violent, correction is needed occasionally.  A tap on the tokus is a fine attention getter, and much better than a two-by-four between the ears which is often necessary for a mule.  I am sure that a lot of parents have discovered that removal of privileges is not a good solution to bad behaviour because of all the available distractions these days.

So, VT, my two cents.

EDIT:  And thanks Zane900 for reading my quote into the record.  It really is true, and you can see it over and over.

[DOXXP29 5]

Well let's see...when I was a kid I had a "starter" chemistry set complete with sodium hydroxide and calcium hypochlorite. (Hydrochloric Acid didn't come until the second "ages 9 and above" version.) I had a "toy" that had a three inch piece of wire held tight between a "table" and a clamp (picture something like a miniature jigsaw) and connected to a battery so it would get red hot and I could cut shapes out of thin pieces of styrofoam. (What was worse, the danger of being burnt or the fumes, I wonder?) We had a "glassblowing kit" complete with an alcohol lamp and asbestos pads. A stencil making kit with a battery powered spinning circular razor blade for long cuts and X-Acto type knives for detail work. We all built model cars, planes, tanks, whatever with toluene based plastic cement (liquid or tube) and enamel paints complete with acetone thinner. All of the above were things I had in the early grades of elementary school. There was a big focus on educational or "productive" toys at the time. (I was born in 1955 and had all of these in the very early sixties.) Oh yeah, I forgot my kiddie tool kit with hammer, nails and a real saw (all metal and they did function like the big ones), which I had and played with BEFORE I started school.

And you know what? None of us got injured by any of these things. Not even the model rockets that we would ignite and then watch them blast off into space or the model airplanes that used REAL gasoline for the tiny engines. Even the paint or dope we used was labeled "Hot Fuel Proof", meaning that if hot fuel got onto the plane, the paint job wouldn't be ruined.

But now...(sigh...) I wonder how much time they'll lock a kid up for if he takes his Boy Scout Knife with two blades and can and bottle opener to school like we all did at age seven? (The girl's did too with their own Brownie or Girl Scout Knives.) We had our own whetstones to keep them honed to maximum sharpness.

As far as the article goes, even though some of us "turned out alright", a lot of us are still really freaking crazy! Maybe all of those chemistry set fumes?

[Meg 368]

Do they still have Mold Masters?

My brother had one.  This was a heated chamber with a plunger.  You'd drop plastic bits into the chamber, it would melt and you would push the plunger into these molds and make various little plastic toys, mostly toy soldiers, guns, jeeps, tanks, and so forth.

I remember that the melted plastic was hot enough to be uncomfortable on your fingers but it cooled very quickly.

[tek-69 0]

I feel bad for kids these days, they get more pressure in school to overachive than we ever did. and the new propaganda they aim at them is even more far fetched than anything we ever saw. We're headed for a permanent helmet society. Wrap em up in bubble wrap so they dont break and feed em granola bars. Anything else is child abuse. Besides its for the children

[Goldfish4209 9]

Wow. You guys had it good, save the computers. Yeah, helicopter parents are extremely inconvenient, and so are those that want their kids to be straight 100 A+ students. I know a few kids whose lives were ruined by those parents. Nobody likes them and they have zero social skills. Sucks to be them.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Oh, I forgot to say that my son has achieved his 2nd degree black belt in Shorin Ryu karate, and did it in about 5 years.  He joined the karate club at university for exercise.  He is starting work on the katas for his 3rd degree now, after a layoff of about three years and a year of getting back in shape.

Those of you who know anything about serious karate know that this kid is motivated.

[Easy Bakes 253]

No one remebers erector sets?

long sharp metal peices,pointy metal screws, electric motors, loose wireing, batterys.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

No one remebers erector sets?

long sharp metal peices,pointy metal screws, electric motors, loose wireing, batterys.

quote>

::: waves hand ::::

I remember them.  They were a lot of fun.   and I don't know anyone who choked on those small pointy screws.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

I was more of a Lego kid... building things with choking hazards. Those were the days.

I must say this is a good read. Safety is important and all, but common sense and experience with not-so-safe things need to factor in somewhere.

[Zelgadis 638]

Personally, I remember my old Tonka Trucks. Now, they're all nice and safe and plastic. Back then, they were made out of thin-cut sheet metal. When they were new, they were fine. After a few years of being banged up and left in the front yard to rust a bit, they were lethal weapons.

ISF

[Dsrwhat316 12]

i am 20 years old and i have an 80 (soon to be 81) year-old father. i had to give up going to college and work full-time just to support the household. and the person who sent the e-mail calls my generation, in so many words, "lazy and stupid"? i can just laugh and shrug it off.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: zelgadis Personally, I remember my old Tonka Trucks. Now, they're all nice and safe and plastic. Back then, they were made out of thin-cut sheet metal. When they were new, they were fine. After a few years of being banged up and left in the front yard to rust a bit, they were lethal weapons.

ISF

quote>

I have the metal ones.  Except I wasn't allowed to bang them up.  I did have fun with them though.

[Deathtoall 28]

I would have to agree with you  and i am from the 90's! But, they are dangers today, we are still discovering all sorts of issues in todays society, so just don't foget that before you judge this generation as the best, remember we still have another 20 or so years to discover how bad modern things(todays issuses) are. People always discover problems with previous generations. Now i'm not saying that your wrong, i agree with you but, based on the current info , this generation still has alot of time to prove or disprove itself. Hopefull we can live up to your expectation and opinion, i hope (severely) we do, but don't forget we have a lot on our a plates(global warming, end of oil). How can u compare something that has happened with something that is just halfway through.

P.S But at least in the 50's they were blisssfully ignorant!

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Ha!  I forgot about my Meccano Sets.  I had a lot of them and built all kinds of models with these strips of perforated steel with tiny nuts and bolts.  There were nice sharp springy clips to hold axles in place, and tonnes of nice choking hazards.  Lots of my friends had even more advanced sets with electric motors and other good stuff.  No one was ever hurt playing with this stuff.