A Military Coup?

[Barbarossa 51]

I would like to know the Community's impressions of the recent violence in the Palestinian Territories.

As many of you know, there is currently a "new" conflict in the Gaza Strip and West Bank related to an insurrection by Hamas.  In the past, I have been a supporter of Palestinian rights for a homeland.

While I still support this view, I am somewhat distressed by the recent actions of Hamas (whom I have never liked).  I have problems understanding why they want to sabotage a path to statehood.  This is their chance to get SOMETHING, even if it isn't what they demand.  Their militant, and unreasonable, stance is derailing all attempts to bring peace to the region, because of their staunch opposition to Israel.  What does it take to make these crazies understand that both the Jews and the Palestinians deserve something to call their own?

So, my question is:  Do you think that the current situation is a sign that the peace process is dead?  Or do you think something can still be salvaged?  I am not a violence-minded person, but I can help but think that Hamas needs to be wiped off the face of the earth... and soon.  There is no room in the world for these fanatics.  Can mindless, militant, violent groups be brought to their senses?

Here is a link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070614/ts_nm/palestinians_dc

Let's keep this civil, okay?    My goal is intelligent discussion.

Thanks,

Barbarossa

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Quite simply, a plague on both their houses. 

The rest of the world should pull out, tell the Israelis to butt out on pain of bad things, and declare a total arms embargo.  Any state or person supplying arms to either side should be outlawed.  This has gone on long enough.

[Dragontempest 0]

*quietly clears voice*

For one thing, Hamas is supported by not only Syria and Iran.. but also by a large portion of the Palestinian population.   All you hear about is how Suicide attacks on Isrealis or a War with the same and how they torture, decapitate and violate every single human right and decency.  There is another side.  the hospitals they have funded and built, the schools (not all of them are training centers), whole neighborhoods have been built by Hamas and yes the countries supporting them.

There is a civil war in Palestien  and neither side is gonna pay attention to Isreal till the other is dead.  Hamas and Fatah are bitter enemies.  Fatah believes it has the right to rule over Palastien cause it was the one negostating with Isreal and America, it established a peace process... But those in Fatah are very rich and backed by those governments.  But Hamas is a "peoples" group, one that the people believe represent them. 

 

This is the way the world has worked for thousands of years... if we "westernized" civilizations believe we can just knock over and ant hill and not cause problem we are saddly mistaken.

I dont have any personnal feelings on this matter but what I type is what I have learned in History. 

Remember this... Name one "western" country on this planet that has not had some type of civil war of civil unrest.  We had to "grow up", now let them.

[Micah 16]

the hospitals they have funded and built, the schools (not all of them are training centers), whole neighborhoods have been built by Hamas and yes the countries supporting them. quote>

Yes, but I think this is where we disagree. I believe that's called "propaganda". They'll do that to get the country behind them. And it sure did work! They were elected into the government just this last election.

But Hamas is a "peoples" group, one that the people believe represent them. quote>

That's how they all start off. I recently saw a movie called The Last King of Scotland and Idi Amin of Uganda (I think that's right) and his militant group started off as the people's group. But then the power got to them and they became just like the people they overthrew. Except, Idi was even worse. He killed 300,000 people!

I dont have any personnal feelings on this matter but what I type is what I have learned in History.

Remember this... Name one "western" country on this planet that has not had some type of civil war of civil unrest. We had to "grow up", now let them. quote>

You are exactly right. Western. These aren't Western countries. History has taught us that Muslim civil wars do nothing but excalate between the rival sects within Islam. There was the Ottoman Empire which was Sunni and you had the Safavid Empire which was Shi'a; and while those empires appear gone, they truly aren't. The effects of those two empires are still felt today and they won't grow up until.... well, I'll stop there. (Let's just say, Islam is about struggling in the way of God and if your religion is founded on conquering people which Muhammid did during his life, then you have a lot to worry about... however, an Islamic person can certainly correct me here if I'm wrong. I'm open-minded.)

[Dragontempest 0]

agreed. But remember one thing. Islam by its nature was an "adaptive" religon. it "originally" did not Destroy other faiths (judism, christianity, Hindi) it mostly went after each other shi'ia and sunni. but the Crusades made Islam the "overriding" faith. Middle easterners still refer to the crusades as why Islam has to win out.

PS Micah.. as a reference to your tag.. what is the only country never annexed by the US that was handed over to it? LOL

[Hunaja 0]

IMO, Israel could easily solve this problem by killing all current leaders and generals of Palestine groups. Then give independence to Gaza and West Bank (no Yerusalem needed) and rule it with puppet goverment.

[Odainsaker 2,133]

Hamas is the Palestinian version of the SA brownshirts, radical militant thugs in the streets whose primary purpose is always to stir up enough chaos to bring their movement to absolute power and create enough fear and terror in the streets to silence any dissent. The language and pattern fits, and even the SA had social charities. Indeed, they are succeeding--the roundups and street executions are already under way. Not that Fatah in the past was much better...Mussolini's blackshirts perhaps? Sadly, the various Palestinian factions have embraced terrorism as a legitimate solution to problems, even inventing the jet hijacking, and now they are feeling its double-edged blade as such tactics are just as easily turned onto themselves by their own people.

Fortunately, the Gaza Strip is more easily isolated and quarantined than, say, Iraq. So quarantine the strip, which Israel can almost entirely do already except on the small Egyptian stretch, help those 1 million Palestinian refugees who want to flee to be processed and evacuated through Egypt away to a host country (hmm, for all their pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel bluster, I wonder how many other Muslim countries would really accept them). For the rest of Hamas isolated within Gaza, choke them off, and actively start striking their bases. Who cares anymore if Syria or Iran get upset, they have already launched a proxy war through their puppet Hamas. We've done too much apologizing on Hamas's behalf already, and now look where it has gotten us...as much I have have denounced Israel's unilateral wall-building, it is starting to look like the only sane workable solution.

Afterall, we know the rockets attacks, suicide bombers, and the kidnapping attempts are sure to come now that Hamas has a full base haven in hostaged Gaza. Indeed, they have been ongoing for some time.

EDIT:  Hmmm, now that I give it a bit more thought...the West and Israel have been vocal about not dealing with a Palestinian leadership that includes an unmoderated Hamas.  Though it has happened in a spectacularly chaotic way, Hamas is now separated from the so far ineffectual Abbas and the rest of the recognized Palestinian government.  Perhaps it is time to again really truly deal with the Abbas government and push out a real peace plan and developmental support for at least the West Bank, creating a visible difference between the benefits for the Palestinians of a compromised peace on the one hand, and the self-defeating quarantined terror of Hamas's isolated Gaza Strip on the other.  Doubt it would ever work though, for the Bush administration has proven its total ineptitude at foreign policy, rendering the U.S. currently impotent.

[JanYpe 17]

Israeli supply of fuel to the Gaza Strip has been cut back drastically in response to the Hamas coup. Have we started taking bets yet on when the IDF moves in?

[JanYpe 17]

Israeli supply of fuel to the Gaza Strip has been cut back drastically in response to the Hamas coup. Have we started taking bets yet on when the IDF moves in?

[DanWalker8 3]

palestinian democracy elects "terrorists" Proof that the region is a cesspool of religious violence.

[DanWalker8 3]

palestinian democracy elects "terrorists" Proof that the region is a cesspool of religious violence.