Mass transit developments

[lilred731 0]

In my city we have the Music City Star.  An actual train that travels 15 miles from Lebanon, TN to downtown Nashville, TN.  It opened last year and so far ridership is slowly increasing.

www.musiccitystar.org.

[lilred731 0]

In my city we have the Music City Star. An actual train that travels 15 miles from Lebanon, TN to downtown Nashville, TN. It opened last year and so far ridership is slowly increasing.

[Socorocks 7]

[ In many parts of the country, this type of sprawl-like development is the only legal way to build, so developers actively eliminate the feasibility of mass transit (before it even has a chance) in order to maintain the automobile as the only practical means of travel.quote>

 

This is a terrible and unfortunate truth of our time, one that, unfortunately, most people are not familiar enough with the principles of place to understand the implications of. 

Thank you for contributing this.

[hamsterTK 93]

Dallas

Dallas is expanding its rail system once again, roughly doubling its size to almost 90 miles , and finally connecting the main international airport, DFW. (right now there is a bus that goes to the nearest commuter rail station, but this is a major hassle)

The green and orange are new. The Green will come first, first will be the small segment between downtown and fair park, opening for the Texas State Fair in 2009. The Orange line will go to DFW Airport, and there will be a large station built there to also accomodate commuter trains from Forth Worth.

It should all be done by 2013 hopefully

The route passes very close to Dallas' domestic airport, Love Field. Originally there was a plan to tunnel under the airport and have a station at the terminal, but the cost was too great. So now they have begun planning a much cheaper people mover system to link the nearest station to the terminal. This is actually going to be the second people mover line attached to the system, in Las Colinas there is a large office development that has a little tram connecting all the buildings and that should also have a connection with the light rail when the orange line is done

MAP:

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: Socorocks

[ In many parts of the country, this type of sprawl-like development is the only legal way to build, so developers actively eliminate the feasibility of mass transit (before it even has a chance) in order to maintain the automobile as the only practical means of travel.quote>

 

This is a terrible and unfortunate truth of our time, one that, unfortunately, most people are not familiar enough with the principles of place to understand the implications of. 

Thank you for contributing this.quote>

Well, the thing of it is that most middle and upper class people don't want to live in a city, they want a suburban home. This is not only because in the suburbs you can have a bigger house, more property, a lawn, etc., but also because cities are stereotyped as being home to bums, drug addicts, and criminals.

Now, that has some truth to it in most places, but the fact of the matter is most cities, while they definitely are not quite as "safe" as the suburbs are, are not as bad as people often make them out to be. Still, the issue exists that you can make yourself more of a target to being mugged or burglarized if you look better off. Though the key is to know which neighborhoods to stay out of.

Now in many American cities, you actually have an issue of richer people moving in and displacing the poorer locals. This is a phenomenon known as "gentrification". Still, this doesn't help solve the traffic problem any since such people tend to prefer to use their cars. Some of them wouldn't be caught dead on the subway or a bus. So it actually hurts, not only because they contribute to vehicular traffic, but also because of the issue of displacing the existing population.

Ultimately, though, the problem is a cultural one- that better off people refuse to use mass transit and often prefer to live in suburban areas. We have a ton of suburban sprawl in the US because we have a ton of demand for it.

[Socorocks 7]

I know what gentrification is, thank you.

Anyway, Duke87, you (and so many other Americans) look at this as an aesthetic issue and a preferential issue, rather than what it really is.

Gentrifying older, urban neighborhoods does add to problems, correct, while it does do a lot to stem the flood of McMansions that devour our countryside as wealthy people tire of suburbia in increasing numbers.

But the problems that both neighborhood renewal and reversal as well as unchecked sprawl present are rooted deeper. The reasons why attempts at revisiting the design of the places in which we live are superficial at best is because they are aimed at changing the format of said locale, and not  the lifestyles of the people their in.

People want to be urban and green and modern and yet they want to keep their auto-oriented lifestyle. They still want to drive to work.

This is not a perception issue. People would use transit if they were educated properly, not if the system was the newest cleanest shiniest brightest most extensive in the country. It's been shown by poor ridership of new, well-planned systems that it doens't matter the quality if the stigma is still there.

It's a teaching challenge as well as an infrastructural one. The cultural problem you speak of is not resistance based on cold hard preference and division; moreover, it's not because people are unchangeably predisposed to avoid transit and urban contexts; rather, it is an ignorance. If the horrid unsustainabilities, ineffeciencies, impracticalities, and unhealthinesses of the suburban, car-oriented lifestyle could be adequately, rigorously, and effectively presented, then the sea change would begin in earnest. 

We see the the beginnings of this right now, with the wealthy returning to the city (despite the negative effects of gentrification). But the middle class is largely unmoved, and therein lies the next greatest challenge to correcting the sprawl issue.

Put simply, I don't think people would fight so hard for their sprawl if they knew just how bad it is for everyone and everything, especially themselves.

[BarbulaM1 38]

Might as well post a map of Denver's light rail . Most is underconstruction now, but it is all under way and all fully funded.

[hamsterTK 93]

Awesome!

Ive been watching the denver project on SSP, its exciting How old is that map? I heard that they chose commuter instead of LRT for the gold line?

Anyways, I dont want to be rude or anything, but can we stay on topic. Seems like the sprawl disc. has been done to death already and it doesnt belong here in a thread on transit construction

[GreekMan 246]

Here is San Diego's Trolley system:

The newest extention was the Green Line
There probly will be an extention north of san diego and in the south bay area too.
Here are some pics:






More pics are here:
San Diego Trolley Photos

[Eliah747 0]

Originally posted by: simzebu My dad can remember trollies running down Second Avenue in Albany, NY. We got rid of them well before I was born. Now all we have is the CDTA bus lines. But, in an effort to make the worthless system better, we spent a ton of money to change the colors. Yay, progress!quote>

In the dutch city of Arnhem we still have trolly buses

                                              

(wikipedia)

[josefmayor 8]

Out of all the GLR cities out there, how many have had mayors that pushed for it and city officials who opposed it and said it would never work, even though every time they say that the item that some how got passed became a huge success and is constatly needed to be upgraded.

Tampa's situation....

In the early 90's we had 2 toll roads put in, The Veterans Expressway which goes from North West Hillsborough County, to TIA(Tampa International Airport)/I-275, and The Lee Roy Selmon Expressway, which goes from Dale Mabry Hwy (S.R 597)/Gandy Blvd (US 92) (South Tampa) through Downtown & Ybor City to I-75.

Current Mass Transit:

HART Bus Lines: Almost unreliable, pointless to even have

InTown Trolley Bus Line: Very Reliable and successful however it only serves Downtown, Hyde Park and Ybor so it doesn't leave the main density of Tampa.

TECO Eletric Street Car: Super efficient Trolley line that a lot of people use, however it only serves Downtown, Channelside, and Ybor.

We have a rail that goes from Hyde Park and South Tampa through Downtown into Ybor City then up towards the North and isn't used that could easily be transfered into GLR, would that be less costly?

Here is a Map of the core of downtown with districts.

Now we are facing a crises, our Metro population has doubled in the past 5 years from 2 million to 4 million, our bridges that connect St. Petersburg & Clearwater to Tampa are clogged like a fat guys arteries and the problem is getting worse. Our Mayor's soap box this past election was to get mass transit mainly Ground ight Rail in Tampa, but the papers who own the cities opinion (btw our papers are very ANTI-Tampa, for some reason they hate our city... Idk, it must be political, b/c our city is not that bad administration wise other than in our Transit derpartment) So the paper convinces the people we don't need rail, the Transportation Department says Rail is to costly, yet we're paying 400 million dollars from tax payers to widen I-275.

So here are a few more questions.

How much opposition occured when your city added light rail?

How much did it cost?

Did it pay for itsself?

Is it efficient?

How many people use it daily?

Hopefully this can count as research I can take to Tampa City Council and tell them that rail will work. You would think that with a city that has almost 500 thousand people and with a growing population with over 100+k commuters into Downtown everyday, we would've pushed for it more. But our city's transportation department has done everything in its power to make sure traffic jams are eminent, I forgot to mention they are converting 4 roads from one way to two ways in the heart of downtown where traffic is a nightmare in the first place, and where traffic is only going to get worse as many condo projects that combined will bring atleast 100,000 into living downtown.

[edd17 1]

People always complain that mass transit doest pay for itself, but when it often has benefits beyond the fares collected (increased commerce etc.), they also seem to forget that roads (except for toll roads) definitely do not pay for themselves (if your just going to consider fares).

[edmonton_stinks 5]

Calgary has a small light rail system (3 lines) and desperately needs expansion but the West LRT isn't planned until 2014, the Southeast LRT until 2023, and the North LRT until after that. Efficient, isn't it?

[Duke87 1,070]

Well, there comes a point where a city gets too dense and just highways and streets can't properly support it anymore. When that time comes (hopefully before), you need to start installing either light rail or a subway. I've actually ridden the light rail in Denver. Despite the fact that it runs along existing streets it goes faster than a car on the street would since it only has to stop at red lights, and never has to slow down or stop because of a car in front of it doing so.

Tampa could use a bit of subway/light rail love. Might even wanna do something like in the (San Fransisco) Bay Area and make one system serving both Tampa and St Petersburg. Running the system out to the beaches probably wouldn't hurt, either.

People are against such things because they fear change. There are people who are against basically everything because of this, who want to simply keep the status quo, even if it isn't working like it used to.

So frankly, if you find someone who's against everything proposed, eventually we should be able to learn who these people are and ignore them... but unfortunately we can't bring ourselves to do that since it means ignoring the opinions of a group of people.... but their opinions are often irrational, and thus just impede progress and proper functioning.

[Downloadking 4]

I like those stations in San Diago!

[dalmatianfan2020 1]

Arlington, TX (a suburb of Fort Worth) has just announced plans to introduce mass transit service. Until now, Arlington was the largest city in America without mass transit. About 300 something thousand people live there.

[GreekMan 246]

Originally posted by: Downloadking I like those stations in San Diago!quote>

 

Thank you! I think it's the 4th most used LRT system in the US(100,500 i think for daily ridership)

I do like the C-Train in Calgary. The C-Train has has 200,000 plus riders. That system looks promising so does Pheonix's LRT

[lilred731 0]

From the chart (that was) displayed above I am shocked!!! New York and Chicago both have a larger population and neither of them have a line within the top 10. That is just incredible to me. The cities that are listed must be doing something right. I wish that those cities would pass some of their knowledge to my home city of Nashville, TN.

[edmonton_stinks 5]

The C-Train is great (only stops at stations cause it doesn't go on streets, it runs beside them) for those who can ride it. Problem is, huge chunks of the city can't use it. It should be great, eventually.

[diva613 0]

This is Ottawa's, we have a pretty neato transit system, mainly buses, but included is the one and only LRT line in Ottawa, it is shown by Yellow. and it shows the six major routes in ottawa, the transitway busses, that runs 22 hours a day.

Image of Transitway from Wikipedia

Images of Buses,taken by me **please note not the only model running, these are just the lowfloors that run in the Suburb of Nepean

[jmjselect 0]

the bad about atlanta is that we don't really have a mass transit system of anything other than a really pathetic bus system(in a sprawl city).

the good of it is that we have a clean slate whenever we decide to put one in and we could have one interesting one as well(we have A LOT of space).

[KyNYC 16]

Might be of interest to some...I take the 4/5 everyday to/from work....it's HELL!!! Stuffed like sardines...sometimes the air conditioning doesn't work (even though the trains are new). Lots of times it takes more time to move b/c people are pushing and shoving their way onto the train, holding the doors. The 4/5 are supposed to be express, but sometimes the local (6) is faster.

from NY1.com: NYC Transit: Subways Are "Filled To Capacity"

June 26, 2007

According to an analysis by New York City Transit, the transit system may not be able to pick up the slack if "congestion pricing" keeps drivers away from Manhattan.

Resistance in Albany aside, Mayor Michael Bloomberg is still plowing ahead with his traffic plan that will institute an $8 toll for driving into Manhattan south of 86th Street is expected - and intended - to push many drivers on to the subway. But is the MTA ready for it?

The analysis found that the MTA already runs the maximum number of trains possible on many lines during rush hour and that many of those trains are filled to capacity, or technically beyond capacity. Among the lines running at capacity: the 2/3, the 4/5, and the 7 train.

One possible long-term solution are trains controlled by onboard computers. The system, now being tried out on the L, allows trains to run closer together, and therefore more frequently. But taking that technology system-wide would take decades.

NYC Transit President Howard Roberts says the temporary solution is to make changes above ground.

"It's bad news," said Roberts. "There's no room in the inn. to the extent that they want to ride some of the other lines and that's okay. But it means that in a lot of our initial response to that we've had to rely heavily on bus, express bus and conventional bus."

Roberts says he's considering adding more cars to each train and extending the platforms.

But those changes would take years.

The report came out as city and state officials formally pitched the mayor's congestion pricing plan to federal transportation officials in Washington.

The New York officials released details of how $539 million in federal aid could be spent. More than half would go toward buying buses to accommodate extra riders. And millions would go toward installing sensors and cameras along the border of the pricing zone.

Last week, lawmakers in Albany left the congestion pricing issue on the table, but they are expected to reconvene next month to discuss the proposal.

[cityspade 0]

Urban streetcars (trolleys) have been a bit of a hot topic in the urban planning realm as of late. They are relatively inexpensive to install (compared to light rail) and can be incorperated into the existing urban fabric much more easily as they don't require an exclusive right of way. There's even a decent amount of interest here in Cincinnati for streetcars.

But there may be even more exciting things on the near horizon. Shanghai has built a mag-lev line to it's airport and is planning to extend it. Some people here in the states have noticed:

http://www.transrapid-usa.com

http://www.transrapid-usa.com/images/route_USA.gif

http://www.transrapid-usa.com/images/route_Pittsburgh.jpg

http://www.transrapid-usa.com/images/route_Baltimore-Washington.jpg

http://www.transrapid-usa.com/images/route_Atlanta-Chattanooga.jpg

http://www.transrapid-usa.com/images/route_Las-Vegas.gif

http://www.transrapid-usa.com/images/route_LAX-to-Ontario-Airport_2.jpg

[KyNYC 16]

If it was easier to find the appropriate topic to post my message to I wouldn't have posted it here.  Also, I did think it was related.  NYC's subway is mass transit and there is development.  I understand that pictures and diagrams have been posted, so I apologize to anyone who is upset with my posting.

[montrouge 2]

Olympiades

A newest station on Paris metro opening the june 25, 2007

It is the ninth stations on the line 14, This driverless line has 100,000,000 journeys per year and over 400,000 passengers per workdays for only 9 km (5.6 mi) and 9 stations.

Olymiades is the 298 named station or 370 station of Paris.

These ugly toll gates are only here for few month, after those will be remplaced by most modern type gate

[HuskerDude 12]

Sacramento is currently expanding it's Light Rail network and considering a Streetcar system to connect the rapidly expanding West Sacramento area with downtown and help folks get around midtown. I'm looking forward to both developments, esp. taking the Streetcars out to W. Sac for RiverCats games.