What is happening to England?

[jammy 0]

Right, I now this might be taken the wrong way and may not be politically correct but I will do my best


On a whole England is not doing to well, every year the public are been bombarded with more and more taxes that many people cannot afford

If there where taxes and an exellent health and education system I wouldn't be to bothered but the fact is that Englands health and education system are totally going down the drain but still more and more tax

Income Tax which is like 30% of your job salary is taken off you, not to pay for Health, Education and Transportation but to pay for free housing, car tax, child benifit and loads more stuff for the people who are physically able to work for a living but quite literally cannot be arsed.(this tax was also only introduced as a temporary tax after world war 2 to get the country on its feet!!!)

does £1,500 or ($2,500) sound a lot to you? well that how much my dad has to pay in tax not annualy but monthly. The education is so bad that I was forced to move into a private school. which also costs a lot of people but people who don't work can claim money and the right to private education and get there kids into school absolutley free!!

What do you think, is this the start of a failing country??

PS:

I still think England as a reasonable place to live but for how much longer?

and also I am speaking about the country on a whole, I am sure some areas of the country will be doing well but you ARE in the minority.

Thank You!

Jammy

[coolotter88 2]

cut the healthcare system, make people pay for their own healthcare, using the money they save on taxes...look at the United States (Where I live), the healthcare is 99x better than Britain's.

[jammy 0]

Thats what I mean!!!!

But the UK government won't do that, I will increase everyone taxes by 100% so the ye locale hospital in south west easttown can by a new hospital bed!

[JanYpe 17]

Interesting blog by an ambulance driver.

It seems the UK government is more interested in performance figures than in investing in a better system.

[Micah 16]

Nah, England is a wonderful place! I wouldn't say that England is a failing country...

Perhaps England should try privatized healthcare? I'm not sure. Just curious, Canada has universal healthcare but doesn't it takes months (or simply put, a long time) to get treated?

[GingerBlokey 30]

I love the UK, I would never, ever want to move. Or at least not in the forseable future. For all it's faults it is still a great place.

Also, put down The Express or The Mail or whatever your reading and pick up The Independent, The Guardian or even The Times for a slightly more balanced view. I am a self-confessed guardianreader and proud. Think of me like the Anti-Tory.

Also can I just say I have had, and am still having, a fantastic education thanks to my school which is state-funded. I have been to private schools and you dont get the same social experience, my school is the best in the region and I am very lucky.

Every country is always gonna have something wrong with it and the sentence "If I was prime minister/chancellor/president/monarch/leader I would..." never ends in the same way twice.

[BurroDiablo 222]

My High School was the best in the Region too... the kids are getting a new one built now, so you can't say the Taxes aren't being put to good use

The health care too is fine imo... pay for health care? Yeah, right... could you imagine the riots? We've had free heath care for over 60 years now. The Government needs to take care of its people, everybody is entitled to free, efficient care no matter if your a Lawyer or a Hobo. If we're so desperate to live to 150 that we need to Pay for health care, theres always BUPA or HSA for the people with 'cash'.

Besides... means there no real need for Health Insurance... your stupid to go private in the UK because your STILL paying for the NHS no matter what, might as well use what you pay for, thats what I do...

You make it sound like the government is going to collapse overnight...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The biggest mistake the UK ever made was a guy named Bevan.  The Labor goverments that have been in and out have done more harm than the Long Parliament.

England needs to wake up and smell the roses, and not the social services.  Socialism in the UK will eventually eat up all private income leaving people on the dole. 

Many British-based countries have discovered this themselves and moved to fix it. 

Remember, if the government provides a service, it is paid for by taxes.  If government services are cut, the government will go out in the next election and a more socialistic one will replace it.  It is a continuous downward spiral, like the second law of thermodynamics.

Laws of Thermodynamics:

1. You can't win
2. You can't break even
3. You can't get out of the game.

[jammy 0]

Thank You for all the replies

El Burro- The thing is although we pay the huge health service taxes the healthcare is generally really bad, so the only good health you get is if you go private, aswell with school, although the education is acctualy free it is in a lot of cases bad schools,

And more taxes are been introduced this year?!!!!!

And what are they for??

To give people who don't work a free house, car and then they drain the NHS because they smoke and drink in excess so the old woman down the street can't get sufficent healthcare,

crime and punishment is another problem, what punishment would you give for the following true scenario:

A man steals a car then drives through a town where the spped limit is 30 at 100mph, he then knocks somone down and drives off (the person suffered serious head injuries),

futher down the road he crashes killing a passenger in the car, he also damages property that he crashes into and seriously offends police oficers and cameramen, 

(it was on one of those police videos on tv)

GUESS WHAT THE SENTENCE FOR THIS CRIME IS AND I WILL ANSWER SOMETIME TONIGHT?!?

[GingerBlokey 30]

Originally posted by: jammy Thank You for all the replies

El Burro- The thing is although we pay the huge health service taxes the healthcare is generally really bad, so the only good health you get is if you go private, aswell with school, although the education is acctualy free it is in a lot of cases bad schools,

And more taxes are been introduced this year?!!!!!

And what are they for??

To give people who don't work a free house, car and then they drain the NHS because they smoke and drink in excess so the old woman down the street can't get sufficent healthcare,

crime and punishment is another problem, what punishment would you give for the following true scenario:

A man steals a car then drives through a town where the spped limit is 30 at 100mph, he then knocks somone down and drives off (the person suffered serious head injuries),

futher down the road he crashes killing a passenger in the car, he also damages property that he crashes into and seriously offends police oficers and cameramen, 

(it was on one of those police videos on tv)

GUESS WHAT THE SENTENCE FOR THIS CRIME IS AND I WILL ANSWER SOMETIME TONIGHT?!?quote>

*cough* Daily Express reader  *cough*

[jammy 0]

I don't acctually read any newspaper coz they are like totally last century

Btw the sentance was a 3 month suspended sentance and a 1 year ban from driving

remember he murdered somone literally and disabled another person and czused serious property damage and was very offensive

[defcon pilot 0]

^Lolz. Don't read the newspaper? Where are you getting this information?

[Easy Bakes 253]

And Hillary C wonders why no one wants

Free health care for every one here in the US.

We see how it works elsewere and its not a very good system.

Its a good idea but not practical in function when implimented by the Bureaucracy it becomes. ( like the VA hospitol system in america )

Then again privatized is not exactly perfect either but it seems no one else is

comeing up with a better solution then those 2 options.

[6underground 11]

he biggest mistake the UK ever made was a guy named Bevan.quote>

I assume you mean the Welshman Aneurin Bevan? The guy who practically set up the National Health Care?

It will be a cold day in hell before I allow the NHS to be scrapped, it is a fundamental human right IMO, to be entilted to free-health care and free-education. I will gladly pay extra taxes to support these.

The problem does not originate from these socialist aspects, but the prblem is how these funds are distributed and administrated in the NHS and Education systems in the UK. Don't blame the institutions, blame the failure of the governments (past and present) who haven't maintained or cared for the National Health Service or Education.

BTW, have you seen the standard of American education in schools over there? I think you would be amazed by the poor quality in comparison to the UK.

Yes the U.S by and large has a wonderful health-system but in order to get it they sacrifice humanity. Many poorer Americans I know of, would not go to hospital for anything less than alife-threatening or serious injury. Requiring individuals to weigh up a bill they cannot afford, or reman ill until such time that they have to get treatment.

I don't have to weigh that up. If i am ill or hurt, i get treatment.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: 6underground

BTW, have you seen the standard of American education in schools over there? I think you would be amazed by the poor quality in comparison to the UK.

Yes the U.S by and large has a wonderful health-system but in order to get it they sacrifice humanity. Many poorer Americans I know of, would not go to hospital for anything less than alife-threatening or serious injury. Requiring individuals to weigh up a bill they cannot afford, or reman ill until such time that they have to get treatment.

I don't have to weigh that up. If i am ill or hurt, i get treatment.quote>

quote>

The school problem is because we had a generation of people go through it, decide that everyone in our generation needed to know even the most minute of crap, and horribly failed doing it.  It'll improve.  Give it time.

As for health care, it depends on the situation.  Absolutely nothing you just said was true about my grandmother, and she wasn't exactly living comfortably in many regards.  The government paid for the whole blasted thing.

[sc4portugal 10]

Originally posted by: Micah Nah, England is a wonderful place! I wouldn't say that England is a failing country...

Perhaps England should try privatized healthcare? I'm not sure. Just curious, Canada has universal healthcare but doesn't it takes months (or simply put, a long time) to get treated?quote>

 

No what about the poor people? Good luck NHS!

[jayo 44]

Originally posted by: jammy I don't acctually read any newspaper coz they are like totally last centuryquote>

I wouldn't say that newspapers are "Totally last century"***Cough,cheesy american voice*****

No offense to the fellow americans.lol.

Now back to the point,I don't think england is a failing country.Its just got a a particulary snobby govement !!

[Cleaner475 150]

The problem with England is that we've hit a standstill - prices are slowly creeping up but also they are slowing creeping down - We seem to be becoming richer and richer as a nation but have less rich people as the governement keeps taking money of us.

[SystemUK 0]

The NHS isn't any where near as bad as it is made out to be. The bad cases make the news but the good work of our (underpaid) nurses and (overpaid!!) doctors and other workers never makes the news.

Same with education. Older people complain about exams getting easier but that is not the case. My parents are dumbfounded y some of the work I get home.

[nealos101 20]

I'd advise you buy every newspaper every weekend and look at all of the statistics and figures for all of our publiclly-funded services before bashing your own country.

In fact... You'd have to be god to know if England is going up or down becuase there are so many levels that England is doing well upon as well as doing badly upon...

It also depends on where you are, who you are, what you are doing and how you got there.

Neal.

[Micah 16]

[Rant begins]

Well, to me, this is actually sad. Here we are in our homes on our computers bickering about having our healthcare when there are thousands... no wait, millions of people dieing just to get food and water, and we're crying out about having healthcare? What about the people in those countries? Sorry, and I feel many of the older members will agree with me, but we've turned into a selfish society instead of a society that tries to help people. Sure, universal healthcare does try to help people, but we're so concerned about that and we see these people in Africa, Bangladesh, and other places and we say to ourselves, "Well, at least it's not us!" How can we call ourselves civilized if we don't care about those people. How prideful... 

[Rant ends]

[confused04 14]

For all the faults of the free health care system in the UK, there is one advantage... everyone is entitled to treatment. In the US where it is privatized, the services provided are superior... if you can afford it. There are huge, double-digit percentages of our population that lack the ability to pay for health care. So for them, the fact that the US health care system is good is meaningless. What the UK does, along with other socialist countries, is pool risk as a country (just like any insurance company). Individually, without this insurance, you risk paying a lot out of pocket for treatment. But, if you operate as a large unit, the risk individually is decreased and instead of paying a huge bill at the end of an operation, you pay through premiums and as long as society as a whole remains healthy, there will hopefully be more healthy people paying premiums then sick people receiving payouts for their illnesses. As a country, this is what the UK does which gives everyone some basic coverage. The US relies on private companies that do not include everyone in the country leaving some to bear the risk of illness on their own. I can see why Hillary Clinton champions universal health care coverage, cause as you know, our unemployment rate is below 5% yet we have more than that uncovered by health insurance. This translates into a large chunk of our WORKFORCE who is not sitting on their butts and trying to make a contribution to society only for them to fend for themselves as their bosses collect billions in back-dated stock options.

So, in summation, you either have good, but expensive health care (or other services) to be paid by the individual or crappy services paid by the government that everyone receives. So, take your pick.

[Joesocwork 4]

Yeah, but the point for the U.S. healthcare is that the expenses are not paid for by the individual; they are paid for by the insurance companies/HMO's/PPO's.

Granted it's a vicious cycle b/c most individuals can't afford it w/out the above parties and that also means by definition that they can't hold vendors directly responsible either. The vendors and insurance companies/HMO's/PPO's have their own weird systems of cost/demand assessments that hold each accountable in ways that inflate prices and require or deny tests and treaments that individuals would protest if they were paying directly out of their pocket.

The only way that the personal consumer is allowed a modicum of accountability, other than direct feedback to the doctor and preventative lifestyle measures, is the ability to sue for malpractice. But unfortunately that leads vendors to often mandate medical testing that often is unnecessary as a way to cover themselves for fear of lawsuits, upping costs further.

And yet for all of that, contrary to many of the myths, hospitals in the U.S. don't turn away poor and indigent. When I was a college student living on bare bones I had my share of medical emergencies and I was never turned away. My care wasn't always state of the art, but I received enought to keep my life fr being in danger. I also work with lower income people and I don't know anyone yet who has been turned away fr emergency medical care. Granted it might not be top of the line; the bureaucratic line is "why give someone a Mercedes when a Chevy will get a person fr Point A to Point B". The hospitals and vendors do receive certain funds & tax breaks for fr the government for doing this and anything else is chalked up to doing business; which I wouldn't be surprised adds into the calculus of what is charged to insurance companies/HMO's/PPO's.

[The Terminator 0]

Be lucky you are not trapped in the United Fascist States Generica.

Ill take Labour over Republican any day.

I guarantee that on April 15th 2009, My 18th Birthday, My US Citizenship will go bye bye.

Good Bye New York, Hello Toronto.

[6underground 11]

BTW, i'd like to point out that this thread is ENTIRELY England-centric. The UK comprises England, SCOTLAND, WALES & NORTHERN IRLEAND. Issues raised in this thread transcends England's boundaries because the NHS is Union-Wide = United Kingdom.

England and UK are not interchangable.

[confused04 14]

Originally posted by: Joesocwork Yeah, but the point for the U.S. healthcare is that the expenses are not paid for by the individual; they are paid for by the insurance companies/HMO's/PPO's.

Granted it's a vicious cycle b/c most individuals can't afford it w/out the above parties and that also means by definition that they can't hold vendors directly responsible either. The vendors and insurance companies/HMO's/PPO's have their own weird systems of cost/demand assessments that hold each accountable in ways that inflate prices and require or deny tests and treaments that individuals would protest if they were paying directly out of their pocket.

The only way that the personal consumer is allowed a modicum of accountability, other than direct feedback to the doctor and preventative lifestyle measures, is the ability to sue for malpractice. But unfortunately that leads vendors to often mandate medical testing that often is unnecessary as a way to cover themselves for fear of lawsuits, upping costs further.

And yet for all of that, contrary to many of the myths, hospitals in the U.S. don't turn away poor and indigent. When I was a college student living on bare bones I had my share of medical emergencies and I was never turned away. My care wasn't always state of the art, but I received enought to keep my life fr being in danger. I also work with lower income people and I don't know anyone yet who has been turned away fr emergency medical care. Granted it might not be top of the line; the bureaucratic line is "why give someone a Mercedes when a Chevy will get a person fr Point A to Point B". The hospitals and vendors do receive certain funds & tax breaks for fr the government for doing this and anything else is chalked up to doing business; which I wouldn't be surprised adds into the calculus of what is charged to insurance companies/HMO's/PPO's.quote>

Yes, the US system does not put the burden on the individual IF you have insurance... otherwise, you will be charged the full price of your treatment, which you will receive.  Also, they will only treat you for non-elective surgeries. Sounds reasonable except that you will be surprised what counts as elective surgeries/treatments. Basically, if it doesn't kill you now and you cannot afford it, you will not be treated.  This includes cancer treatment, angioplasty, transplants so forth and so on.

[dev 47]

Socialism doesn't work for the working class.

Or for anyone really.

[nerdly_dood 26]

You ask "what IS happening to England"? Well I'll tell you what is NOT happening to England: A viral epidemic that spreads like wildfire, turning people into screaming murderous maniacs that attack without provocation, almost always killing the vic--wait...this sounds like a movie I saw...hm...Oh yeah! 28 weeks later!

A very disturbing movie.

[defcon pilot 0]

Originally posted by: dev Socialism doesn't work for the working class.

Or for anyone really.quote>

Mediocre public service for all or exquisite private service for a few. Take your pick.

[Micah 16]

Originally posted by: nerdly_dood You ask "what IS happening to England"? Well I'll tell you what is NOT happening to England: A viral epidemic that spreads like wildfire, turning people into screaming murderous maniacs that attack without provocation, almost always killing the vic--wait...this sounds like a movie I saw...hm...Oh yeah! 28 weeks later!

A very disturbing movie.quote>

 

Oh, and don't forgot, women are still producing babies! (Children of Men)