Greenville, SC - Sprawl at its Worst

[topcliff 1]

See, compared to where I live, Greenville looks somewhat decent. Sacramento is a whole other story. As you see on the list, Sactown has over 2 million people (slightly inaccurate. Almost 2.5). The city is built on an old marsh at the convergence of the Sacramento and American Rivers. The main city is like a giant L, following the river from the Zoo toward the old railyards and then along the American into East Sacramento at the university. In the 50's, the L was lost as South Sacramento came into existance. I tslowly wrapped around to reach the American, and then eventually over it. Now, the sprawl has reached down south toward Stockton along I-5 and I-99 (not the interstate, a state route). Also, the 'burbs are built in rings instead of immediately next to the city. Now there's a giant patch of dead grass between and mud between Downtown, the 'burbs, the 'burbs near Arco Arena, and then the Airport. Also, Sacramento now has a population of around 550,000 people. Check Emporis, guys. TopCliff

[topcliff 1]

See, compared to where I live, Greenville looks somewhat decent. Sacramento is a whole other story. As you see on the list, Sactown has over 2 million people (slightly inaccurate. Almost 2.5). The city is built on an old marsh at the convergence of the Sacramento and American Rivers. The main city is like a giant L, following the river from the Zoo toward the old railyards and then along the American into East Sacramento at the university. In the 50's, the L was lost as South Sacramento came into existance. I tslowly wrapped around to reach the American, and then eventually over it. Now, the sprawl has reached down south toward Stockton along I-5 and I-99 (not the interstate, a state route). Also, the 'burbs are built in rings instead of immediately next to the city. Now there's a giant patch of dead grass between and mud between Downtown, the 'burbs, the 'burbs near Arco Arena, and then the Airport. Also, Sacramento now has a population of around 550,000 people. Check Emporis, guys. TopCliff

[CWLGAMER01 39]

Originally posted by: Frankie_Grove [it seems here in the upstate there is no such thing as a 'native' to the area, everyone i've met if either from New York, New Jersey, or Michigan. 

I would like to discuss this further, however I probably won't be around much on Simtropolis this summer.quote>

 

Well I am as much native as your going to get I assume.  My family has been in the Anderson area since around the late 1700's before it was even Anderson.  They helped create what was then Pendelton District which later become Anderson, Pickens, and Oconee Counties.  I love my home and am always drawn back there every few months to visit my grandparents and other family members.  The "upstate" is a great place and I do mess it.  

My wife and I live in Charlotte now (she was born in Gastonia, NC).  (don't tell my wife -- but YES South Carolina is better then North Carolina -- and they always try to steal our ONLY President away from us too -- SHAME on them -- Jackson was from SC!!!)  We moved back here from Washington, DC to come back to the "South".  Now I like the north don't get me wrong -- I have family that live in Philadelphia and NJ -- But there's nothing like some good Duke's Mayo, sweet tea, and some grits and country ham at breakfast (not all that together of course).  

I understand your concerns and look forward to us chatting more!

PS:  Are you a student -- if so where do you attend school?  I attended Anderson College.

[CWLGAMER01 39]

Originally posted by: Frankie_Grove [it seems here in the upstate there is no such thing as a 'native' to the area, everyone i've met if either from New York, New Jersey, or Michigan. 

I would like to discuss this further, however I probably won't be around much on Simtropolis this summer.quote>

 

Well I am as much native as your going to get I assume.  My family has been in the Anderson area since around the late 1700's before it was even Anderson.  They helped create what was then Pendelton District which later become Anderson, Pickens, and Oconee Counties.  I love my home and am always drawn back there every few months to visit my grandparents and other family members.  The "upstate" is a great place and I do mess it.  

My wife and I live in Charlotte now (she was born in Gastonia, NC).  (don't tell my wife -- but YES South Carolina is better then North Carolina -- and they always try to steal our ONLY President away from us too -- SHAME on them -- Jackson was from SC!!!)  We moved back here from Washington, DC to come back to the "South".  Now I like the north don't get me wrong -- I have family that live in Philadelphia and NJ -- But there's nothing like some good Duke's Mayo, sweet tea, and some grits and country ham at breakfast (not all that together of course).  

I understand your concerns and look forward to us chatting more!

PS:  Are you a student -- if so where do you attend school?  I attended Anderson College.

[egelder22 0]

Smart Growth IS the answer.

What we need to do do stop sprawl is go back about 60-70 years, to pre-WWII suburbs. Cities like Boston and New York are great examples, if you take away everything built after 1950. Before there was urban sprawl and Levittowns and interstate highways. The towns on Long Island were individual communities built along rail lines into the city. And from what I've seen, each had their own Main Street and trolley line.

Today the trolleys are gone, but the idea still remains. Everyone in my town commutes to the city, but in a city like New York, cars are actually impractical. The furthest city workers drive on Long Island in to the train station. I don't mean to glorify my hometown, but I really do think it is one of the best examples of a successful community. I love LI. And to think the answer to all the problems of urban growth is to just look to the past.

[egelder22 0]

Smart Growth IS the answer.

What we need to do do stop sprawl is go back about 60-70 years, to pre-WWII suburbs. Cities like Boston and New York are great examples, if you take away everything built after 1950. Before there was urban sprawl and Levittowns and interstate highways. The towns on Long Island were individual communities built along rail lines into the city. And from what I've seen, each had their own Main Street and trolley line.

Today the trolleys are gone, but the idea still remains. Everyone in my town commutes to the city, but in a city like New York, cars are actually impractical. The furthest city workers drive on Long Island in to the train station. I don't mean to glorify my hometown, but I really do think it is one of the best examples of a successful community. I love LI. And to think the answer to all the problems of urban growth is to just look to the past.

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

Forenote: These are 2001 Statistics and 6 years out of date

1	London	7,172,091	England
2	Birmingham	970,892	England
3	Glasgow	629,501	Scotland
4	Liverpool	469,017	England
5	Leeds	443,247	England
6	Sheffield	439,866	England
7	Edinburgh	430,082	Scotland
8	Bristol	420,556	England
9	Manchester	394,269	England
10	Leicester	330,574	England

We have a similar effect here. Notice how far down Manchester is (although this is a few years old, Birmingham is 1,001,200 in the city limits (2005), and London has 7.6 million, manchester is also just over 400k). Look how far down manchester is compared to the Metro areas... These are quite out of date so are only used as a basis for this post.

1	Greater London Urban Area	8,278,251
2	West Midlands conurbation (Bimingham)	2,284,093
3	Greater Manchester Urban Area	2,240,230
4	West Yorkshire Urban Area (Leeds)	1,499,465
5	Greater Glasgow	1,168,270
6	Tyneside (Newcastle)	879,996
7	Liverpool Urban Area	816,216
8	Nottingham City Area	666,358
9	Greater Sheffield Area	640,720
10	Bristol urban area	551,066

Now look at Manchester, up at 3rd place. Just a note, the London Metro has been recorded now at 12 million. Rather than 8.

My City, Portsmouth is 26th largest for its own city limits. Yet Greater Portsmouth is the 11th largest urban area in the UK with nearly half a million people. 142k more than its rivals, Greater Southampton, who beat Portsmouth within its own city limits.

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

Forenote: These are 2001 Statistics and 6 years out of date

1	London	7,172,091	England
2	Birmingham	970,892	England
3	Glasgow	629,501	Scotland
4	Liverpool	469,017	England
5	Leeds	443,247	England
6	Sheffield	439,866	England
7	Edinburgh	430,082	Scotland
8	Bristol	420,556	England
9	Manchester	394,269	England
10	Leicester	330,574	England

We have a similar effect here. Notice how far down Manchester is (although this is a few years old, Birmingham is 1,001,200 in the city limits (2005), and London has 7.6 million, manchester is also just over 400k). Look how far down manchester is compared to the Metro areas... These are quite out of date so are only used as a basis for this post.

1	Greater London Urban Area	8,278,251
2	West Midlands conurbation (Bimingham)	2,284,093
3	Greater Manchester Urban Area	2,240,230
4	West Yorkshire Urban Area (Leeds)	1,499,465
5	Greater Glasgow	1,168,270
6	Tyneside (Newcastle)	879,996
7	Liverpool Urban Area	816,216
8	Nottingham City Area	666,358
9	Greater Sheffield Area	640,720
10	Bristol urban area	551,066

Now look at Manchester, up at 3rd place. Just a note, the London Metro has been recorded now at 12 million. Rather than 8.

My City, Portsmouth is 26th largest for its own city limits. Yet Greater Portsmouth is the 11th largest urban area in the UK with nearly half a million people. 142k more than its rivals, Greater Southampton, who beat Portsmouth within its own city limits.

[Socorocks 7]

Originally posted by: britishdude1192 I honestly don't see why this is such a problem. I live in a New York City suburb in New Jersey and I like it, there's still parks and trees and wildlife (to a certain extent) and if you want to talk urban spraw the suburbs go straight acrosss the state of NJ and even into Pensylvaniaquote>

 

People who say things like this have clearly not endeavored to educate themselves, on anything. Please try to find me one credible consortium of planners that still supports reckless, uncontrolled, wasteful and vacuous sprawl that is taken seriously. 

No one takes statements like that seriously.

[masssc4 3]

posted by CWLGAMER01

5

Philadelphia–Camden–Wilmington

PA–NJ–DE–MD

5,826,742

i used to live in delaware, where Wilmington is, and the sprawl is horrible. every year there is at lest one huge neighborhood that is supposed the be part of smart growth, there are many other neighborhoods but not as large. One of the "smart growth" neighborhoods is Bayberry,at news site  http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/NEWS/604060365/1196/NEWS

and at the offical site, http://www.villageofbayberry.com/

[ICFan 0]

I lived in Greenville Area for 6 months, a Sunday Paper (Greenville News) stated that in the next decade the suburbs of Atlanta and Charlotte will meet at Greenville SC.

[tudorjason 31]

I read a similar article in the Seattle PI last year. It stated that by 2020, Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, with their suburbs, will be a megalopolis like on the East Coast: New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington, DC. There will be constant development 25 miles on either side of I-5.

[Craig91 12]

I heard somewhere before that Dublin, Ireland (where I live) has the worst urban sprawl problem in Europe. It has one major road going around it, the M50, which is used by over a hundread thousand people a day.

Dublin is a really fast growing city. In 2006 (last census), the urban had a population of 1.6 million and it is expected to reach 2.1 million by 2021 (next census). Dublin Also has a number of large dormitory towns, that sooner or later are just going to become part of the city. The picture below is from Google Earth and is several years old, Dublin has probably grown a little since it was taken

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

it is also expected that the half million metros of Portsmouth and Southampton will possibly meet and make one large metropolis of over 1 million. Within 50 miles of Londons sprawl.

[Yoman3 5]

So glad I live in NY, away from this crap, and look at LA while your at it, the worst sprawl I've ever seen, I hate that city....so car dependent...

[topcliff 1]

Originally posted by: Yoman3 So glad I live in NY, away from this crap, and look at LA while your at it, the worst sprawl I've ever seen, I hate that city....so car dependent...quote>

 

That reminds me of a fact: did you know there are more cars in the L.A. Basin than there are in all of Russia? Also, from when I was there, it looked like there was lots of sprawl. Don't contradict me! TopCliff

[edmonton_stinks 5]

You can't tell from any lists but Calgary's sprawl is horrendous. The problem is basically that there are no geographical borders (except the Tsuu Tina reserve) because we're completely landlocked. You can't find any problems from lists but Calgary's suburbs are all included into the city proper, or at least most are. The urban footprint is only slightly smaller than NY city proper with 1/8 the population. Scary.

[ExiL3 10]

What I like about living here in Europe is that Cities (mostly bigger ones) are mostly a whole bunch of towns grown together towards a city centre...

This gives people many possibilities to where they want to shop, which park they want to visit, and more, also creating less traffic because people can walk or take the bus if they want to shop.

In the US, in large, the people have to get out of their Sub-urban neighborhood, get to a main road and drive to the closest shopping area... often consisting of rows of malls all located in one area.

Studies show that the more compact lifestyle we have here in Europe is actually better for us, and the environment.

take care,

[edmonton_stinks 5]

Originally posted by: ExiL3 What I like about living here in Europe is that Cities (mostly bigger ones) are mostly a whole bunch of towns grown together towards a city centre...

This gives people many possibilities to where they want to shop, which park they want to visit, and more, also creating less traffic because people can walk or take the bus if they want to shop.

In the US, in large, the people have to get out of their Sub-urban neighborhood, get to a main road and drive to the closest shopping area... often consisting of rows of malls all located in one area.

Studies show that the more compact lifestyle we have here in Europe is actually better for us, and the environment.

take care,quote>

I would agree with this. When I was in London, I could walk or take the underground anywhere I wanted to go. World class subway and the city isn't as big as you would think (coming from Canada) a city with that much people would be.

When I was in Dublin, I walked everywhere.

So, it's better for you because you walk more, and better for the environment because of less car pollution.

I think we could stand to learn a lesson here. Lousy oil boomtowns...so much sprawling.

[Lee G. 0]

I've been doing a lot of traveling this summer and it's amazing how many cities in America are virtual construction sites for new suburban development. Honestly, the usual excuses that local people throw around just don't make sense. Down here in South Carolina, we blame it on northerners fleeing the cold weather. But during a recent trip through Michigan and Minnesota, there was tons of new sprawl. Also, while visiting the Macon, Georgia area, there was much of the same, and they blamed it on Atlanta, even though it's nearly two hours away. In fact, the only cities I saw without a sprawl problem had large African-American populations (Selma, Alabama particularly stood out in this regard). Anywhere in America with a white middle class seems to have sprawl.

You wonder when this is all going to come to a head. Urban sprawl has gotten out of control at a time when we're supposedly worried about global warming and our dependence on foreign oil. The housing boom is over yet developers haven't slowed down. There are alternatives to sprawl out there, but this generation seems to be the last chance to stop sprawl before it becomes useless to even try. I never used to be an environmental voter, but right now I'd gladly cast my vote for whichever presidential candidate promises to be the greenest.

[lilred731 0]

Several years ago the USA Today had an article about sprawl. They used all the major and minor metro areas from all over the country and their findings were very interesting.

#1 was LA with the best

Last was Nashville, TN the worst

[lilred731 0]

Here is the link to the article.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sprawl/main.htm

[GoASU 0]

Originally posted by: Frankie_Grove

Originally posted by: muffinpunk787 Oh and I'm very sorry to here about Greenville.. the same things are happening here in Raleigh, NC too. quote>

Raleigh-Durham is getting it really really bad, mainly because of Research Triangle Park (RTP).  Most cities in North Carolina are getting just massive influxes of people,  there was a special census done on the state in 2004-2005ish if i remember correctly. Charlotte, Winston-Salem, Raleigh-Durham are all becoming hellholes of urban sprawl. And every day more and more precious land disappears. (It's not unlimited, as city planners will soon find out.) I only hope that people realize before it's too late..

quote>

 

I don't think Winston Salem is too bad, I live in Lewisville a subarb. When you drive on 421 heading towards Yadkinville, wilkesboro and boone. its not that bad. By the time you go over the bridge in to Yadkin County there are alredy farms. And thats like 15 miles away from th W-S city limit. And we have lots of arartments in lewisville to

[OffTopic 3]

The San Diego Sprawl is like, nothing. Most of that county is either wilderness and in the southeast there are some farms. If you drive down the I-5 through that area, it is really beautiful, but it is all black now because of the fires. A shame.

[GoASU 0]

Just a fact the bank of america building is taller than tokyos tallest building. ( there was talk about Charroltte)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America_Corporate_Center

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Midtown

[GoASU 0]

Just a fact the bank of america building is taller than tokyos tallest building. ( there was talk about Charroltte)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America_Corporate_Center

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Midtown

[GoASU 0]

woops sorry

[panthersimcity4 162]

Phoenix is kinda a "horror story" when it comes to sprawl, just yesterday I could barely see the mountains due to brown haze...

[masssc4 3]

Originally posted by: CraigKingOfIreland I heard somewhere before that Dublin, Ireland (where I live) has the worst urban sprawl problem in Europe. It has one major road going around it, the M50, which is used by over a hundread thousand people a day.

Dublin is a really fast growing city. In 2006 (last census), the urban had a population of 1.6 million and it is expected to reach 2.1 million by 2021 (next census). Dublin Also has a number of large dormitory towns, that sooner or later are just going to become part of the city. The picture below is from Google Earth and is several years old, Dublin has probably grown a little since it was taken

quote>

 

This is an old thread sorry but, This looks sooooooo familiar to Boston. M4 would be MassPike, M50 or 150 can't tell but that would be 128 and I-95, N7 would be I-95. That is soo weird. Even the water looks familiar to Boston.