Greenville, SC - Sprawl at its Worst

[Frankie_Grove 33]

Hello everyone, I have created this topic to show fellow ST members a true urban disaster. A beautiful and historic city that is ruining the Upstate of South Carolina. South Carolina is a beautiful state, and I love living here very much. It is economically, and geographically diverse, allowing everything for textiles, to forestry, and automotive, to leading the country in nuclear power. Unfortunatly, behind this paradise, lies the state's true enemy, the poorly planned urban areas. Since the beginning of the 21st Century, the Greater Greenville Metropolitan area has received huge amounts of people in a population boom, with the majority of the immigrants from Florida, Michigan, New Jersey, and New York. The area also has a few interstates, I-85 being the main one, I-385 being the messiest one, and I-185, or the "Southern Connector" (toll road). Of course, this already contributes to my well thought out equation:

Interstate + Population Boom = Sprawl

Horrible sprawl at that, acres and acres of farm land are eaten up by immigrants to build new subdivisions, and or strip malls. The main concentration is along I-385..or at least it's about all I've seen as far as it goes. (I haven't really been to the other parts of town, but it's just as bad if not worse.) Anyway, here is the downtown area:

The downtown area is very nice looking, however in the top right corner you can see some sprawl..I like how the downtown is fairly dense, although it could be a lot denser. By making it denser, more people and business can be crammed into this area allowing for more efficent use of space. By constructing larger, denser structures (especially apartments or condos) space is used better, and the landscape is spared from the destruction. A light rail system would be very nice for the downtown, however, no such plans for mass transit have been made.

As you can see by the sprawl in these pictures, the homes and businesses seem to grip the interstates:

All houses and sprawly businesses. Is it not horrible? By densifing the downtown area, or getting "Smart Boundaries" for Greenville, much space and precious farm land can be saved. All that land is wasted, and the houses should be torn down and replaced with trees and wildlife again. I really hate seeing this happen, it's not just Greenville either, Spartanburg and Charleston are also hit hard by this disaster. It's a horrible sight to see, and something needs to be done before the landscape is ruined forever.

Comments Welcome..(I may post a bit more later)

[granto93 4]

yikes, that is quite sprawly. my hometown has to be sprawl capital of the world. our small downtown has no grid whatsoever and is poorly planned and the disaster just starts there. looks like greenville suffers from the same problem except your downtown is wayyyy mor organized

[ccecill 52]

This goes on in Jackson too, just not as bad. In a city of 26,000 (ridgeland, ms), we have one large, bigbox mall, and another under construction just at the next exit. I could almost walk this distance. At the very next exit, we have Madison (pop. 20,000), which is pretty new strip malls followed by subdivisions and "coming soon", or "land for sale" signs. It's ridiculous. This growth looks great to people in the burbs, but it's killing Jackson. A friend says the growth will eventually stop and downtown will get better. He says it's called regingerfication (or some similar spelling - don't google it.). I know that most of Jackson's suburban growth has been towards the new Nissan Plant that we have up in Canton, which is north of Madison and Ridgeland. (not so new anymore)

So, I guess I can relate. It sucks for people in the city but isn't that bad for the folks out in the burbs.

[DFire870 2]

Austin, TX, is sorta the same way. In a way it's worse because we have a poorly planned freeway system. To help ease traffic there are several high-rise condos being built in downtown Austin. The tallest building in Austin will be the 360 Condominiums.

And honestly, that sprawl isn't that bad. Maybe it's because I live in the suburbs, but it could be a LOT worse.

[cammo2003 20]

Just looking at that interchange (circled above) gives me a headache.

And the sprawl, of course, is horrendous. It happens here, too, though on a smaller scale. Not in this area of Sydney, because it's literally built out, but there are two huge chunks of area that have been set aside for suburban sprawl in the South West and North West of Sydney, which are already very heavily car-dependant areas...

[Cody02 0]

You act like this is new or something. Every major metropolitan area in the United States has been doing this for the last 20 or 30 years. I wouldn't mind it so much if they would keep some trees instead of bulldozing everyone of them. They are nice to look at, provide shade and are much more appealing than the roofs of houses. I know eventually these neighborhoods will have large trees again but that would atleast take 30 or 40 years for them to grow that size.

[crazyyaya 4]

I aboslute hate low density sprawl, it is such a waste. People who think theyre better then others buy a single family strip of land, they always use cars, no public transportation. The land takes up so muchspaces for so little people, not too mention the farms it destroys. More people need to give up their suburban dream and head to high density ares.

Such a waste of earth.

[dicky 0]

Frankie_Grove-

Its happening (urban sprawl) in Columbia, South Carolina too! I visit the area quite often, and in the last 7 years, the surburbs (mainly in the north-east) have exploded! Main roads had to be widened, and at least 6 schools have been built around my area (one high school, two middle schools, two elementery schools, with a third under construction-the school district for the area is Richland 2). A Walmart Supercenter was built in the area 6 years ago, and a vast retail development (known as "The Village at Sandhills"-http://www.villageatsandhillonline.com/) began opening stores around three years ago. I estimate between 10000 and 20000 people have moved into the north-east region since 1999.

[Frankie_Grove 33]

Originally posted by: cammo2003

Just looking at that interchange (circled above) gives me a headache.quote>

fortunately that is only a temporary interchange.

Originally posted by: Cody02 You act like this is new or something. Every major metropolitan area in the United States has been doing this for the last 20 or 30 years. I wouldn't mind it so much if they would keep some trees instead of bulldozing everyone of them. They are nice to look at, provide shade and are much more appealing than the roofs of houses. I know eventually these neighborhoods will have large trees again but that would atleast take 30 or 40 years for them to grow that size.quote>

The low density sprawl ruins the landscape, they DO leave the trees, but there is barely enough left to house wildlife. Farmland is bulldozed so people can live in suburbs..And, sprawl has never been as bad as this 20 or 30 years ago. Something needs to be done, densification is the only way out...

[DFire870 2]

The main reason why people live in the suburbs is the high desnsity areas aren't so good for raising a family. And sprawl doesn't always take away farmland. Sure, it might eat up ranches and woodlands, but to say it just eats up farmland is stupid. Also, not every new development bulldozes all the trees and plants new ones. This might be the exception, but in my subdivision they left many of the trees, so there are maybe 2 or 3 houses that have young trees. (Hell, my backyard has about 10 trees and it's tiny!).

And if you really want to complain about this, go back 50 years and complain to Eisenhower. Because honestly, suburban sprawl is only going to get worse, not better.

(BTW, I'm not saying sprawl is good, but there's really nothing you can do about it)

[Frankie_Grove 33]

Originally posted by: DFire870 The main reason why people live in the suburbs is the high desnsity areas aren't so good for raising a family. And sprawl doesn't always take away farmland. Sure, it might eat up ranches and woodlands, but to say it just eats up farmland is stupid. Also, not every new development bulldozes all the trees and plants new ones. This might be the exception, but in my subdivision they left many of the trees, so there are maybe 2 or 3 houses that have young trees. (Hell, my backyard has about 10 trees and it's tiny!).

And if you really want to complain about this, go back 50 years and complain to Eisenhower. Because honestly, suburban sprawl is only going to get worse, not better.

(BTW, I'm not saying sprawl is good, but there's really nothing you can do about it)quote>

There is one way to fight it, right here.

[Micah 16]

That's sprawl?  I was actually thinking that would be a nice place to stay.

You want sprawl? Go to Houston:

 

That red dot is downtown.

Greenville looks like a nice community to me and this photo shows why I believe that.

[Ranaldo20 0]

Originally posted by: ccecill He says it's called regingerfication (or some similar spelling - don't google it.). .quote>

Gentrification is what you speak of, I believe. 

[Ranaldo20 0]

And also, Speaking of sprawl... Atlanta is a monster of urban sprawl.

[Frankie_Grove 33]

Originally posted by: Ranaldo20 And also, Speaking of sprawl... Atlanta is a monster of urban sprawl.quote>

I recently read that they are working on that problem by densification of the inner perimeter areas.

[muffinpunk787 1]

Well... I agree with cody02 that sprawl has been and continues to happen in many areas around the United States. Cities that are suffering from sprawl should look to cities and countries in Europe and take examples from them. In Europe, where land is very precious when compared with the vast amounts of land in the United States and Canada, many cities are very dense and have developed efficient systems.

Oh and I'm very sorry to here about Greenville.. the same things are happening here in Raleigh, NC too.

[Frankie_Grove 33]

Originally posted by: muffinpunk787 Oh and I'm very sorry to here about Greenville.. the same things are happening here in Raleigh, NC too. quote>

Raleigh-Durham is getting it really really bad, mainly because of Research Triangle Park (RTP).  Most cities in North Carolina are getting just massive influxes of people,  there was a special census done on the state in 2004-2005ish if i remember correctly. Charlotte, Winston-Salem, Raleigh-Durham are all becoming hellholes of urban sprawl. And every day more and more precious land disappears. (It's not unlimited, as city planners will soon find out.) I only hope that people realize before it's too late..

[muffinpunk787 1]

Originally posted by: Frankie_Grove

Originally posted by: muffinpunk787 Oh and I'm very sorry to here about Greenville.. the same things are happening here in Raleigh, NC too. quote>

I only hope that people realize before it's too late..

quote>

 

Me too.. I really enjoy the parks and the trees.  Every time I visit one of the new neighborhoods, I'm shocked that they have taken down every tree possible when I can see many they could have left up.

I'm sure many people would move to the downtown area or use more mass transit if it was more available and useful.

[younghappy 308]

Belfast has alot of planning limits and greenbelts.  Its surrounded on two sides by mountains/hills and Belfast Lough on anothers side.  All that separates it from eating up lisburn is a large golf course and two fields!  Lisburn is a large town with a city status and if  greenbelts were relaxed Belfast would swallow up another town.  Thers's alot of Gentrification and redevelopement in the city centre and near the shipyards and there are even plans for a light railway.  1/3 of the Greater Belfast Metro area use buses to get to work, a reasonable enough ammount and a light railway would increase the use of public transport and reduce the ammount of car commuters.

[Deathamphetimine 2]

Dude, every major city in the southeast has really bad sprawl. Central Florida is one big sprawling mess (or is becoming one) with 4 major sprawl centers, Daytona Beach, Orlando, Lakeland, and Tampa, otherwise known as the I-4 corridor.

[Socorocks 7]

Originally posted by: DFire870 The main reason why people live in the suburbs is the high desnsity areas aren't so good for raising a family. And sprawl doesn't always take away farmland. Sure, it might eat up ranches and woodlands, but to say it just eats up farmland is stupid. Also, not every new development bulldozes all the trees and plants new ones. This might be the exception, but in my subdivision they left many of the trees, so there are maybe 2 or 3 houses that have young trees. (Hell, my backyard has about 10 trees and it's tiny!).

And if you really want to complain about this, go back 50 years and complain to Eisenhower. Because honestly, suburban sprawl is only going to get worse, not better.

(BTW, I'm not saying sprawl is good, but there's really nothing you can do about it)quote>

 

This is absolutely, utterly untrue.

Try SmartGrowth principles. Try traditional neighborhoods. Try New Urbanism. Try Mass Transit.

Consider that family-friendly neighborhoods of houses can exist within a walkable, viable, communicable, and still maintain a density that is suitable for children and pets and whatnot. Look at any pre-WWII suburb of any major American city. Very walkable, very accessible to the rest of the city, transitions nicely into more urban zones, and is still quaint, tree-lined streets fronted by beautiful old houses. 

There's no reason why we have to continue to exacerbate our automobile addiction by persisting to build the types of nonplaces that Charleston, Greenville, Los Angeles, Miami, Houston, Las Vegas, or any American city is currently suffering from.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

I can kind of see why there's sprawl in cities with growth like in Atlanta, Raleigh, and even Greenville... although I'm no fan of sprawl myself.

However, when a city like Pittsburgh has major sprawl, that's disturbing since the region is actually losing people.

[sEAhAwk fAn121 0]

i see no problem with it... sorry to say... i live in the suburbs of Kansas City and i love it... yes i care about wildlife but here we build tons of huge parks and try our best to bring trees to the neighborhoods so that its better...

[sEAhAwk fAn121 0]

i see no problem with it... sorry to say... i live in the suburbs of Kansas City and i love it... yes i care about wildlife but here we build tons of huge parks and try our best to bring trees to the neighborhoods so that its better...

[CWLGAMER01 39]

The area was never planned out well to begin with. I had a friend from New England once commet that the South (Southern cities) all seem to have one thing in common -- the crossroads where the city formed. See the problem is a double edged sword. You have to build the roads to give access and infastructure at the same time it also fosters sprawl. Born and raised in the "upstate" I have seen the transition from the '80's to now. I-85 is turning into another I-95 from Richmond, VA through to Boston, MA.

As far as Charlotte, NC. People seem to still think of Charlotte as a "smaller" major city. At current estamates Charlotte is in the top 20 in population (within Charlotte City Limits) in the nation. Our sprawl is well and has been out of control for a long period of time. The City has made some positive moves to help the problem -- one being to limit development on the beltway (I-485).  In fact Charlotte is a mere 30,000 or so residents from pushing Baltimore down the list.

These are the largest CITIES (Within City Limits) in the US

1	New York City	New York	8,213,839
2	Los Angeles	California	3,844,829
3	Chicago	Illinois	2,842,518
4	Houston	Texas	2,076,189
5	Philadelphia	Pennsylvania	1,463,281
6	Phoenix	Arizona	1,461,575
7	San Antonio	Texas	1,256,509
8	San Diego	California	1,255,540
9	Dallas	Texas	1,213,825
10	San Jose	California	912,332
11	Detroit	Michigan	886,671
12	Indianapolis	Indiana	784,118
13	Jacksonville	Florida	782,623
14	San Francisco	California	739,426
15	Columbus	Ohio	730,657
16	Austin	Texas	690,252
17	Memphis	Tennessee	672,277
18	Baltimore	Maryland	640,064
19	Fort Worth	Texas	624,067
20	Charlotte	North Carolina	610,949
21	Nashville	Tennessee	607,413
22	El Paso	Texas	598,590
23	Boston	Massachusetts	596,638
24	Washington	District of Columbia	582,049
25	Milwaukee	Wisconsin	578,887
26	Seattle	Washington	573,911
27	Denver	Colorado	557,917
28	Louisville	Kentucky	556,429
29	Las Vegas	Nevada	545,147
30	Portland	Oregon	533,427

This list is the top 40 MSA ("Metropolitan Statistical Areas") -- Note the difference in the list.  (One great example is Atlanta, GA -- Not even on the above list -- it ranks 34th from above but below it ranks 9th as a MSA)

1	New York–Northern New Jersey–Long Island	NY–NJ–PA	18,818,536
2	Los Angeles–Long Beach–Santa Ana	CA	12,950,129
3	Chicago–Naperville–Joliet	IL–IN–WI	9,505,748
4	Dallas–Fort Worth–Arlington	TX	6,003,967
5	Philadelphia–Camden–Wilmington	PA–NJ–DE–MD	5,826,742
6	Houston–Sugar Land–Baytown	TX	5,539,949
7	Miami–Fort Lauderdale–Pompano Beach	FL	5,463,857
8	Washington–Arlington–Alexandria	DC–VA–MD–WV	5,290,400
9	Atlanta–Sandy Springs–Marietta	GA	5,138,223
10	Detroit–Warren–Livonia	MI	4,468,966
11	Boston–Cambridge–Quincy	MA–NH	4,455,217
12	San Francisco–Oakland–Fremont	CA	4,180,027
13	Phoenix–Mesa–Scottsdale	AZ	4,039,182
14	Riverside–San Bernardino–Ontario	CA	4,026,135
15	Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue	WA	3,263,497
16	Minneapolis–St. Paul–Bloomington	MN	3,175,041
17	San Diego–Carlsbad–San Marcos	CA	2,941,454
18	St. Louis	MO–IL	2,796,368
19	Tampa–St. Petersburg–Clearwater	FL	2,697,731
20	Baltimore–Towson	MD	2,658,405
*	San Juan–Caguas–Guaynabo	PR	2,509,007*
21	Denver–Aurora	CO	2,408,750
22	Pittsburgh	PA	2,370,776
23	Portland–Vancouver–Beaverton	OR–WA	2,137,565
24	Cleveland–Elyria–Mentor	OH	2,114,155
25	Cincinnati–Middletown	OH–KY–IN	2,104,218
26	Sacramento–Arden-Arcade–Roseville	CA	2,067,117
27	Orlando–Kissimmee	FL	1,984,855
28	Kansas City	MO–KS	1,967,405
29	San Antonio	TX	1,942,217
30	San Jose–Sunnyvale–Santa Clara	CA	1,787,123
31	Las Vegas–Paradise	NV	1,777,539
32	Columbus	OH	1,725,570
33	Indianapolis–Carmel	IN	1,666,032
34	Virginia Beach–Norfolk–Newport News	VA–NC	1,649,457
35	Providence–New Bedford–Fall River	RI–MA	1,612,989
36	Charlotte–Gastonia–Concord	NC–SC	1,583,016
37	Austin–Round Rock	TX	1,513,615
38	Milwaukee–Waukesha–West Allis	WI	1,509,981
39	Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin	TN	1,455,097
40	Jacksonville	FL	1,277,997

Frankie_Grove: -- Are you from the "Upstate"? Prehaps if your not or have recently moved there I may can help spread some light on things since I was born and raised in Anderson (the 3rd largest city in the MSA after Greenville and Spartanburg). I would like to have a dialog with you if you would like. I am well versed in that area plus I also have lived in (Order), Philadelphia, Nashville, Charlotte, Orlando, Columbia, Greenville, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and Washington, DC.

[CWLGAMER01 39]

The area was never planned out well to begin with. I had a friend from New England once commet that the South (Southern cities) all seem to have one thing in common -- the crossroads where the city formed. See the problem is a double edged sword. You have to build the roads to give access and infastructure at the same time it also fosters sprawl. Born and raised in the "upstate" I have seen the transition from the '80's to now. I-85 is turning into another I-95 from Richmond, VA through to Boston, MA.

As far as Charlotte, NC. People seem to still think of Charlotte as a "smaller" major city. At current estamates Charlotte is in the top 20 in population (within Charlotte City Limits) in the nation. Our sprawl is well and has been out of control for a long period of time. The City has made some positive moves to help the problem -- one being to limit development on the beltway (I-485).  In fact Charlotte is a mere 30,000 or so residents from pushing Baltimore down the list.

These are the largest CITIES (Within City Limits) in the US

1	New York City	New York	8,213,839
2	Los Angeles	California	3,844,829
3	Chicago	Illinois	2,842,518
4	Houston	Texas	2,076,189
5	Philadelphia	Pennsylvania	1,463,281
6	Phoenix	Arizona	1,461,575
7	San Antonio	Texas	1,256,509
8	San Diego	California	1,255,540
9	Dallas	Texas	1,213,825
10	San Jose	California	912,332
11	Detroit	Michigan	886,671
12	Indianapolis	Indiana	784,118
13	Jacksonville	Florida	782,623
14	San Francisco	California	739,426
15	Columbus	Ohio	730,657
16	Austin	Texas	690,252
17	Memphis	Tennessee	672,277
18	Baltimore	Maryland	640,064
19	Fort Worth	Texas	624,067
20	Charlotte	North Carolina	610,949
21	Nashville	Tennessee	607,413
22	El Paso	Texas	598,590
23	Boston	Massachusetts	596,638
24	Washington	District of Columbia	582,049
25	Milwaukee	Wisconsin	578,887
26	Seattle	Washington	573,911
27	Denver	Colorado	557,917
28	Louisville	Kentucky	556,429
29	Las Vegas	Nevada	545,147
30	Portland	Oregon	533,427

This list is the top 40 MSA ("Metropolitan Statistical Areas") -- Note the difference in the list.  (One great example is Atlanta, GA -- Not even on the above list -- it ranks 34th from above but below it ranks 9th as a MSA)

1	New York–Northern New Jersey–Long Island	NY–NJ–PA	18,818,536
2	Los Angeles–Long Beach–Santa Ana	CA	12,950,129
3	Chicago–Naperville–Joliet	IL–IN–WI	9,505,748
4	Dallas–Fort Worth–Arlington	TX	6,003,967
5	Philadelphia–Camden–Wilmington	PA–NJ–DE–MD	5,826,742
6	Houston–Sugar Land–Baytown	TX	5,539,949
7	Miami–Fort Lauderdale–Pompano Beach	FL	5,463,857
8	Washington–Arlington–Alexandria	DC–VA–MD–WV	5,290,400
9	Atlanta–Sandy Springs–Marietta	GA	5,138,223
10	Detroit–Warren–Livonia	MI	4,468,966
11	Boston–Cambridge–Quincy	MA–NH	4,455,217
12	San Francisco–Oakland–Fremont	CA	4,180,027
13	Phoenix–Mesa–Scottsdale	AZ	4,039,182
14	Riverside–San Bernardino–Ontario	CA	4,026,135
15	Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue	WA	3,263,497
16	Minneapolis–St. Paul–Bloomington	MN	3,175,041
17	San Diego–Carlsbad–San Marcos	CA	2,941,454
18	St. Louis	MO–IL	2,796,368
19	Tampa–St. Petersburg–Clearwater	FL	2,697,731
20	Baltimore–Towson	MD	2,658,405
*	San Juan–Caguas–Guaynabo	PR	2,509,007*
21	Denver–Aurora	CO	2,408,750
22	Pittsburgh	PA	2,370,776
23	Portland–Vancouver–Beaverton	OR–WA	2,137,565
24	Cleveland–Elyria–Mentor	OH	2,114,155
25	Cincinnati–Middletown	OH–KY–IN	2,104,218
26	Sacramento–Arden-Arcade–Roseville	CA	2,067,117
27	Orlando–Kissimmee	FL	1,984,855
28	Kansas City	MO–KS	1,967,405
29	San Antonio	TX	1,942,217
30	San Jose–Sunnyvale–Santa Clara	CA	1,787,123
31	Las Vegas–Paradise	NV	1,777,539
32	Columbus	OH	1,725,570
33	Indianapolis–Carmel	IN	1,666,032
34	Virginia Beach–Norfolk–Newport News	VA–NC	1,649,457
35	Providence–New Bedford–Fall River	RI–MA	1,612,989
36	Charlotte–Gastonia–Concord	NC–SC	1,583,016
37	Austin–Round Rock	TX	1,513,615
38	Milwaukee–Waukesha–West Allis	WI	1,509,981
39	Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin	TN	1,455,097
40	Jacksonville	FL	1,277,997

Frankie_Grove: -- Are you from the "Upstate"? Prehaps if your not or have recently moved there I may can help spread some light on things since I was born and raised in Anderson (the 3rd largest city in the MSA after Greenville and Spartanburg). I would like to have a dialog with you if you would like. I am well versed in that area plus I also have lived in (Order), Philadelphia, Nashville, Charlotte, Orlando, Columbia, Greenville, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and Washington, DC.

[sEAhAwk fAn121 0]

hey Kansas City is over 2 million!! well just had to clarify that...

[sEAhAwk fAn121 0]

hey Kansas City is over 2 million!! well just had to clarify that...

[Frankie_Grove 33]

Originally posted by: CWLGAMER01

Frankie_Grove: -- Are you from the "Upstate"? Prehaps if your not or have recently moved there I may can help spread some light on things since I was born and raised in Anderson (the 3rd largest city in the MSA after Greenville and Spartanburg). I would like to have a dialog with you if you would like. I am well versed in that area plus I also have lived in (Order), Philadelphia, Nashville, Charlotte, Orlando, Columbia, Greenville, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and Washington, DC.quote>

You are right, most southern cities and towns formed at crossroads or railroad junctions. (Atlanta was founded at the end of a rail line. Since most southern towns were founded where farmers loaded their goods for foreign markets. And since there was really no industry at all, most of these towns remained little changed up until the 1960's or so. (That's when floods of people from the North came and sparked a "sprawling revolution".)

And to answer your question, I am not from the Upstate, I actually moved here from the CSRA (Central Savannah River Area). North Augusta, South Carolina (Across from Augusta, Georgia) is where I had been for 7 years, originally coming from the backwoods of Alabama (quite literally). It seems here in the upstate there is no such thing as a 'native' to the area, everyone i've met if either from New York, New Jersey, or Michigan. 

I would like to discuss this further, however I probably won't be around much on Simtropolis this summer.

[Frankie_Grove 33]

Originally posted by: CWLGAMER01

Frankie_Grove: -- Are you from the "Upstate"? Prehaps if your not or have recently moved there I may can help spread some light on things since I was born and raised in Anderson (the 3rd largest city in the MSA after Greenville and Spartanburg). I would like to have a dialog with you if you would like. I am well versed in that area plus I also have lived in (Order), Philadelphia, Nashville, Charlotte, Orlando, Columbia, Greenville, Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and Washington, DC.quote>

You are right, most southern cities and towns formed at crossroads or railroad junctions. (Atlanta was founded at the end of a rail line. Since most southern towns were founded where farmers loaded their goods for foreign markets. And since there was really no industry at all, most of these towns remained little changed up until the 1960's or so. (That's when floods of people from the North came and sparked a "sprawling revolution".)

And to answer your question, I am not from the Upstate, I actually moved here from the CSRA (Central Savannah River Area). North Augusta, South Carolina (Across from Augusta, Georgia) is where I had been for 7 years, originally coming from the backwoods of Alabama (quite literally). It seems here in the upstate there is no such thing as a 'native' to the area, everyone i've met if either from New York, New Jersey, or Michigan. 

I would like to discuss this further, however I probably won't be around much on Simtropolis this summer.