Voar Tok

Many people said that the old BAT request thread was too cumbersome to navigate and otherwise a jumbled mess. Because of that, the old thread has been closed. With this thread, we'll keep it clean and try to make things easier to navigate (to a degree). A couple of tips for people posting requests. First off, be as detailed as possible. People who provide details stand a better chance of getting their request filled. Second, providing pictures is extremely helpful, but make sure that they are 800*600 pixels. Also, please host them off-site instead of attaching them to your post. This helps save system resources. With that said, have at it guys.

U-Drive-It Guide Version 2 By Voar Tok Please PM Voar Tok if you have any questions about this article. One of the biggest attractions to the Rush Hour expansion for SimCity 4 is the U-Drive-It missions. These things can either be a great addition to the game, or a plague depending on how you look at them. However, judging from the fact that you are reading this, I'd say that you've already decided to give them a shot. All of the various mission vehicles have some oddities to them, so I'll focus on general tips and the like for the vehicles that tend to give people problems. Something that you will notice with all of the missions in SC4 is that they have a "good" or "evil" side to them. Some of the missions are good (meaning that they tend to have beneficial rewards like an increase in mayor rating or a reward building being unlocked). The "evil" missions usually cause your mayor rating to fall for a while, but they leave a chunk of cash in your city vault as a reward (although some of them do unlock rewards buildings also). Except for the Grand Railroad Station, which seems to have a bug in it and may or may not have been fixed with the updates for the game, you can get all of the reward buildings without playing the missions. You'll notice in the game that all of the vehicles come with this general instrument panel layout. They are all a little bit different, and some might have some special additions to them. The tank is a primary example since it has a gauge to let you know the amount of power that will be used when you fire off a round. If you are ever unsure what a particular gauge is for, just hover your mouse over it and a tooltip will pop up telling you. When you are driving a mission, it's usually ok to drive on the side wrong of the road or on the sidewalk. The exception to this is when you are driving and you have a siren turned on. When you are doing that, it is best to stay on your side of the road because people will usually move out of way. Also, when you are driving with the siren on, freight trucks have a tendency to drop their trailers in the middle of the road and leave them there. When you are driving through some area like a toll booth or a bridge where the snap to roads feature is on automatically, you should always stay on the proper side of the road because if you are on the wrong side, you could have your mission terminated prematurely. The same hold true for driving on the edge of a city tile. If you hit the side of it, your mission is most likely going to be terminated. When you are playing on an "evil" mission, you have to be careful to avoid the police. They will be all over your city, and when one of them turns its lights on, he's on to you. There are two ways to deal with this - either get on another road really quickly, or hit him. If you decide to hit him, the best way to do it is to get along side of the car and just tap into him. This is especially helpful for vehicles like the garbage truck that don't have nearly enough hit points for the missions that you have to play. On some of the missions, you will be chased by police helicopters. Avoiding these guys can take some getting used to, so don't feel bad if you don't figure it out the first time. To avoid getting stopped by them, you'll have to keep them from shining their light on you for too long (and too long is a relative time - it can vary from mission to mission). The two easiest ways to get the light off of you is to either cut off on to another street or try to ride in the shadow of tall buildings. Riding in the shadow of tall buildings doesn't always work though, so you may still need to change roads often. Also, the police don't follow you on every "evil" mission (the Toxic Waste Truck mission is an example). When you are operating vehicles like the tank, you'll need to experiment with the thing a few times to get the feel of how the ammunition firing system works. With the tank, a good rule of thumb to follow is to lower the barrel and the barrel power all the way. This will cause your shot to go approximately one tile before hitting the ground (this makes it a lot easier to take out the building you really wanted to destroy). Be sure to experiment with the vehicles before running a mission where you have to destory something. Air vehicles have a tendency to unload their ordinance off to the side if you shoot them while making a turn. The helicopters and the UFO tend to be difficult to turn around while moving them. The easiest way to solve this is to let them slow down and then try making the turn. One the UFO, you'll notice that there is a little blue window on the front of it, so that is the easy way to tell which end is forward. On certain missions where you have to perform a command at a target site (like the ice cream truck missions) it is best to leave the spacebar held down until the game recognizes that the objective has been completed. This helps to guarantee that you actually complete the mission, because sometimes the game won't recognize a simple tap to activate something. There is still one final thing that you need to know before you start playing UDI missions. As you go about running into things, you'll gradually lose hit points on your vehicles. However, if you are running a mission in a vehicle like the ambulance, you can actually get the vehicle some extra hit points by carefully running into a stronger vehicle like a tank. This is something that you need to practice several times before you try it in a mission. If you do it properly, you'll notice that the diamond over your vehicle starting to turn green. However, if you let it get too green, your vehicle will explode on you right then and there. To get it to stop recharging, you need to back away from the vehicle you are touching. Cement mixers are good vehicles to try this on at first. If you read all of this, you now have a good idea of the fundamentals necessary to complete UDI missions. A very special thanks goes out to Altx. He wrote the original version of this article, and if it hadn't been for his article, this would have been far less detailed than it is. So Altx, wherever you are - Thanks! Also, a special thanks to SkiGeek for all of her help on this project. If it hadn't been for her constant encouragement, I might not have ever finished the mission tables that you can find farther down in this thread. If you have any questions about this article, or just UDI missions in general, you can check out the official thread on them, or you can send me a Private Message. U-Drive-It Missions Land Vehicles <table border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2" class="om-Table"> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="2" ><b>Vehicle</b></td> <td colspan="2" ><b>Mission Name</b></td> <td colspan="2" ><b>Mission Triggers</b></td> <td ><b>Reward Buildings Unlocked</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" >Any U-Drive-It Land Vehicle</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Road Vehicle Training Mission </td> <td colspan="2" align="left" >"Road Vehicle Training Mission" not completed and Residential &gt; 0 </td> <td align="left" > Completing this mission is a pre-requisite for all other land vehicle missions.</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage01.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Police Car</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > On the Trail</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Police Station &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt;100 and Residential &gt; 50</td> <td align="left" > Complete the four "good" police car missions to unlock the Deluxe Police Station.</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage01.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Police Car</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Disturbance Reported</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Police Station &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 50</td> <td align="left" > Complete the four "good" police car missions to unlock the Deluxe Police Station.</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage01.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Police Car</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Catch the Robbers</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Police Station &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 50</td> <td align="left" > Complete the four "good" police car missions to unlock the Deluxe Police Station.</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage01.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Police Car</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Nab the Car-jacker</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Police Station &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" > Complete the four "good" police car missions to unlock the Deluxe Police Station.</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage01.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" ><i>Police Car</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i><font color="#000000" size="2">Shakedown</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Police Station &gt; 0 and CS§ &gt; 100</td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage02.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Police Van</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Cop Gone Bad</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Deluxe Police Station &gt; 0 and CS§ &gt; 100</td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" ><i> Stolen Vehicle</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Freedom of Expression</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Police Station &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 50</i></td> <td valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage03.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Ambulance</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Slipped on Llama Dung</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Hospitals &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 50</td> <td align="left" > Disease Research Center</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage03.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i>Ambulance</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Shady Ambulance Driver</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Hospitals &gt; 0 and CS§ &gt; 50 and CO§§ &gt; 50</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Court House</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage03.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Fire Engine</td> <td colspan="2" > Fire!</td> <td colspan="2" > Fire Station &gt; 0 </td> <td colspan="2" > Complete this mission three times to unlock the Fire Department Landing Strip.</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage04.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Fire Engine</td> <td colspan="2" > Help the Cats</td> <td colspan="2" > Fire Station &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 500</td> <td colspan="2" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage04.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i>Fire Engine</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Hose Down the Cats</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Fire Station &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 500</i></td> <td colspan="2" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage05.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > School Bus</td> <td colspan="2" > Get Little Binghamton To School</td> <td colspan="2" > Elementary School &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 50</td> <td colspan="2" > Private School</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage05.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i>School Bus</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Study for Profit</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Elementary School &gt; 1 and High School &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 50</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Nuclear Power Plant</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage06.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > City Bus</td> <td colspan="2" > Sick Bus Driver</td> <td colspan="2" > Bus Station &gt; 3</td> <td colspan="2" > Convention Center</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage06.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i>City Bus</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Dr. Vu Steals a Bus</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Bus Station &gt; 1 and Residential &gt; 50</i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage07.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Garbage Truck</td> <td colspan="2" > Uncle Vinnie Asks a Favor</td> <td colspan="2" > Police Station &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 50 and Landfill Capacity &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" > Federal Prison</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage07.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i>Garbage Truck</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>A Special Load of Garbage</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Police Station &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 50 and Landfill Capacity &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Toxic Waste Dump</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage08.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Toxic Waste Truck</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Goo for the Masses</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Toxic Waste Dump &gt; 1 and Residential &gt; 100</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Cemetery</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage09.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Army Truck</td> <td colspan="2" > Launch Time</td> <td colspan="2" > Missile Testing Range &gt; 0 and Army Base &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage09.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i>Army Truck</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Steal a Warhead</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Army Base &gt; 0 and Deluxe Police Station &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage10.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Ice Cream Truck</td> <td colspan="2" > Ice Cream Delivery</td> <td colspan="2" > Elementary School &gt; 2</td> <td colspan="2" > State Fair</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage10.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Ice Cream Truck</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Pure Evil Ice Cream</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Elementary School &gt; 2</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i>Part of Area 5.1 Unlock</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage11.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > News Van</td> <td colspan="2" > Mayor's Got New Socks!</td> <td colspan="2" > Mayor's House &gt; 0 and TV Station &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" > The Bureau of Bureaucracy</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage11.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> News Van</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Paparrazi</i></td> <td colspan="2" > Mayor's House &gt; 0 and TV Station &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage12.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Get Away Van</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Escape with the Loot</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Deluxe Police Station &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 50</i></td> <td colspan="2" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage13.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Taxi Cab</td> <td colspan="2" > Scientist Late for Flight</td> <td colspan="2" > Small Landing Strip &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 50</td> <td colspan="2" > Opera House</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage13.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Taxi Cab</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Insane Taxi!!</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Small Landing Strip &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 50</i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage14.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Hearse</td> <td colspan="2" > Get the Deceased to the Funeral</td> <td colspan="2" > Cemetery &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 50</td> <td colspan="2" > House of Worship</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage14.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Hearse</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Simlent Orange</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Cemetery &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 50</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Army Base</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage15.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Mayor Limo</td> <td colspan="2" > You CAN Throw Money At It</td> <td colspan="2" > Mayor's House &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 50 </td> <td colspan="2" > City Hall</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage15.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Mayor Limo</td> <td colspan="2" > Mayor [Name] Visits Landmark</td> <td colspan="2" > Landmark &gt; 0 and Mayor's House &gt; 0 </td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage15.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Mayor Limo</td> <td colspan="2" > Ribbon Cutting for Mayor [Name]</td> <td colspan="2" > Commercial &gt; 200 and Mayor's House &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage15.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Mayor Limo</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> High Roller</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Mayor's House &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Casino</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" > Any Train Type</td> <td colspan="2" > Train Training Mission</td> <td colspan="2" >"Train Training Mission" not completed and (Freight Train Station &gt; 0 or Passenger Train Station &gt; 0) and Rails &gt; 20</td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage16.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Freight Train</td> <td colspan="2" > Super Seatbelt Fabric For Space Ships!</td> <td colspan="2" > Freight Train Station &gt; 1 and Rails &gt; 20</td> <td colspan="2" > Part of Space Port Unlocked</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage16.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Freight Train</td> <td colspan="2" > Train Station Tour</td> <td colspan="2" > Freight Train Station &gt; 3 and Rails &gt; 20</td> <td colspan="2" > Grand Railroad Station</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage17.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Passenger Train</td> <td colspan="2" > Whistle Stop Tour</td> <td colspan="2" > Passenger Train Station &gt; 3 and Rails &gt; 20</td> <td colspan="2" > Tourist Trap</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage17.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Passenger Train</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Hijack the Train</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Deluxe Police Station &gt; 0 and Passenger Train Station &gt; 0 and Rails &gt; 20</i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage18.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Steam Train</td> <td colspan="2" > Train Ride for Rocket Formula</td> <td colspan="2" > Freight Train Station &gt; 0 and Rails &gt; 20</td> <td colspan="2" > Part of Space Port Unlock</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage18.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Steam Train</td> <td colspan="2" > Sell Secret Rocket Formula</td> <td colspan="2" > Freight Train Station &gt; 0 and Deluxe Police Station&gt; 0 and Rails &gt; 20</td> <td colspan="2" > Part of Area 5.1 Unlock</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage19.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Monorail</td> <td colspan="2" > Monorail Ride</td> <td colspan="2" > Monorail Station &gt; 1 and Tracks &gt; 20</td> <td colspan="2" > Solar Power Plant</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage20.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Tank</td> <td colspan="2" > Tank Training Mission</td> <td colspan="2" >"Tank Training Mission" not completed and Residential &gt; 0 and Army Base &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" > Completing this mission is a pre-requisite for all other tank missions.</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage20.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Tank</td> <td colspan="2" > New Missile Testing</td> <td colspan="2" > Army Base &gt; 0</td> <td > Missile Testing Range</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage20.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Tank</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Tank Joy Ride</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Deluxe Police Station &gt; 0 and Army Base &gt; 0</i></td> <td valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage20.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Tank</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Teach the Strikers A Lesson</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Army Base &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 0</i></td> <td valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage20.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Tank</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Dr. Vu Gets a Tank</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Police Station &gt; 0 and Mayor's House &gt; 0 and Army Base &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 50</i></td> <td ><i> Movie Studio</i></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <table summary="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="om-Table"> <caption> <b>U-Drive-It Missions</b>Water Vehicles </caption> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="2" ><b>Vehicle</b></td> <td colspan="2" ><b>Mission Name</b></td> <td colspan="2" ><b>Mission Triggers</b></td> <td ><b>Reward Buildings Unlocked</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" >Any U-Drive-It Water Vehicle</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Boat Training Mission </td> <td colspan="2" align="left" >"Boat Training Mission" not completed and Marina &gt; 0 or Car Ferry &gt; 0 or Passenger Ferry &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" > Completing this mission is a pre-requisite for all other boat missions.</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage21.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Motor Boat</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Water Escape</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Deluxe Police Station &gt; 0 and Marina &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage22.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Speed Boat</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Rx Pick-up &amp; Delivery</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Marina &gt; 0 and Seaport &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" > Resort Hotel</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage22.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" ><i> Speed Boat</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Water-proof Mind Control Device</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Marina &gt; 0 and Seaport &gt; 0</i></td> <td align="left" ><i> Cruise Ship Building</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage23.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Cigar Boat</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Jet Ski Fiesta</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Marina &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage24.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Fishing Boat</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Here Fishy, Fishy, Fishy</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Marina &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" > Lighthouse</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage24.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" ><i> Fishing Boat</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Mmm... Endagered Dinner</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Marina &gt; 0</i></td> <td align="left" ><i> Stock Exchange</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage25.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Tug Boat</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > SOS</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Marina &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" > Major Art Museum</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage26.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Passenger Ferry Boat</td> <td colspan="2" > No Missions Available</td> <td colspan="2" ></td> <td colspan="2" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage27.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Ferry Boat</td> <td colspan="2" > Whale Watching Tour</td> <td colspan="2" > Car Ferry &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" > Marina</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage27.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i>Ferry Boat</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Ferry of Evil</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Car Ferry &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage28.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Yacht</td> <td colspan="2" > Rare Fish Viewing</td> <td colspan="2" > Marina &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" > Country Club</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage29.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Metal Whale</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Robotic Whale Destruction</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Marina &gt; 0 and Seaport &gt; 0 and Car Ferry &gt; 0 or Passenger Ferry &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" ></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <table summary="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="om-Table"> <caption> <b>U-Drive-It Missions</b>Air Vehicles </caption> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="2" ><b>Vehicle</b></td> <td colspan="2" ><b>Mission Name</b></td> <td colspan="2" ><b>Mission Triggers</b></td> <td ><b>Reward Buildings Unlocked</b></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" >Any U-Drive-It Air Vehicle</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Aircraft Training Mission </td> <td colspan="2" align="left" >"Aircraft Training Mission" not completed and Residential &gt; 0 and any aircraft unlocked.</td> <td align="left" > Completing this mission is a pre-requisite for all other aircraft missions.</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage30.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Police Helicopter</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Catch the Crook From the Air</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Deluxe Police Station &gt; 0 and Commercial &gt; 50</td> <td align="left" > Television Studio</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage30.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" ><i> Police Helicopter</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Disturbing the Peace </i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Residential (low density tiles) &gt; 99 and Deluxe Police Station &gt; 0</i></td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage31.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > Medical Helicopter</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Give Jenny a Hand, and a Heart</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Residential &gt; 50 and Hospital &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage31.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" ><i> Medical Helicopter</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Organs for Profit</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Industrial &gt; 50 and Hospital &gt; 0</i></td> <td align="left" ><i> University</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage32.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > News Helicopter</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Cover the Hostage Crisis</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Residential &gt; 50 and Commercial &gt; 50</td> <td align="left" > Radio Station</td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage32.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" ><i> News Helicopter</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Get the Perp's Story</i></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><i> Commercial &gt; 50 and TV Station &gt; 0</i></td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage33.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Sky Writer Plane</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Who Loves You, Baby? </td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Small Landing Strip &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" > Major League Stadium</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage33.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Sky Writer Plane</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Secret Sky Code</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Small Landing Strip &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage34.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Crop Duster Plane </td> <td colspan="2" > Farmer's Got Vermin</td> <td colspan="2" > Small Landing Strip &gt; 0 and Farm Tiles &gt; 49</td> <td colspan="2" > Farmer's Market</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage34.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Crop Duster Plane</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Spread Zombie Dust</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Small Landing Strip &gt; 0 and Cemetary &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Part of Area 5.1 Unlock</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage35.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Sky Diver Plane</td> <td colspan="2" > Infiltrate Vu's Secret Meeting</td> <td colspan="2" > Small Landing Strip &gt; 0 and Industrial &gt; 50</td> <td colspan="2" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage35.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Sky Diver Plane</td> <td colspan="2" > Skydiving Show At [Mission Target]</td> <td colspan="2" > Small Landing Strip &gt; 0 and Landmark &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage35.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Fire Plane</td> <td colspan="2" > Water Drop for Fire</td> <td colspan="2" > Fire Department Landing Strip &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"> City Zoo</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage36.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> Fire Plane</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Let it Burn!</i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"><i> Fire Department Landing Strip &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage37.jpg" alt=""></td> <td > Military Helicopter</td> <td colspan="2" > Take Out Dr. Vu's "Secret" Lair</td> <td colspan="2" > Industrial &gt; 100 and Army Base &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" > Advanced Research Center</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage37.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i>Military Helicopter</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Raid on [City Name]</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Train Station &gt; 0 and Water source &gt; 0 and Army Base &gt; 0 and Mayor's House &gt; 0 </i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage38.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i>Jet Fighter</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Cripple [City Name] Industrial Complex</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Industrial &gt; 100 and Power Plant &gt; 0 and Area 5.1 &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Hydrogen Power Plant</i></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage39.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> UFO</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Alien Abduction for Fun and Profit</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Residential &gt; 50 and Commercial &gt; 50 and Industrial &gt; 50 and Area 5.1 &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage39.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><i> UFO</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Blast-O-Ray</i></td> <td colspan="2" ><i> Residential &gt; 50 and Commercial &gt; 50 and Industrial &gt; 50 and Area 5.1 &gt; 0</i></td> <td colspan="2" valign="top"></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <table summary="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="om-Table"> <caption> <strong>U-Drive-It Missions</strong>My Sim Vehicles </caption> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="2" ><strong>Vehicle</strong></td> <td colspan="2" ><strong>Mission Name</strong></td> <td colspan="2" ><strong>Mission Triggers</strong></td> <td ><strong>Reward Buildings Unlocked</strong></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage40.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > § My Sim Vehicle</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Run Some Errands </td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > CS§ lots &gt; 1 and My Sims &gt; 0 CS§ &gt; 50</td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage40.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" ><em> § My Sim Vehicle</em></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><em> Knock Over [Mission Target]</em></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><em> Police Station &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 1 and My Sims§ and CS§ lots &gt; 2</em></td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage41.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > §§ My Sim Vehicle</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > [My Sim Name] Goes Shopping</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Residential &gt; 100 and My Sim§§ &gt; 0 and CS§§ lots &gt; 2</td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage41.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" ><em> §§ My Sim Vehicle</em></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><em> White Collar Crime</em></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><em> Residential &gt; 1 and My Sim§§ &gt; 0 and CS§§ lots &gt; 0</em></td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage42.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > §§§ My Sim Vehicle</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Take a Break at the Casino</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Residential &gt; 1 and My Sim§§§ &gt; 0 and Casino &gt; 0</td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage42.jpg" alt=""></td> <td align="left" > §§§ My Sim Vehicle</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > [My Sim Name] Goes Gift-Shopping</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Residential &gt; 500 and My Sim§§§ &gt; 0 and CS§§§ &gt; 2</td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td ><img src="//www.simtropolis.com/library/Omnibus/udiimages/udiimage42.jpg" alt=""></td> <td ><em> §§§ My Sim Vehicle</em></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><em> Took the Casino for a Bundle</em></td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ><em> Casino &gt; 0 and Residential &gt; 1 and My Sim§§§</em></td> <td align="left" ></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" align="left" > My Sim Vehicle (all wealth levels)</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > [My Sim Name] Wants to See [Mission Target]</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" > Residential &gt; 1 and My Sim &gt; 0 and Landmark &gt; 0</td> <td colspan="2" align="left" ></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

When did you join ST and what convinced you to sign up? Ryan: I've been a member since the beginning. I joined up because the clubhouse was dying and I didn't want to lose track of my friends from that site. Dirk made me a moderator of an early SimCity 4 forum and then an admin of simtropolis when the site launched. Sam: I started playing the game, and looking around the fansites. I joined early in Simtrop 2.0, a few months after the site launched. I really liked the way that Dirk, Ryb, SimJez, Hodges and Golfbunny interacted, it was a good forum and they had fun - that’s pretty much why I signed up. Rybolton - could you tell us a little about the clubhouse. What was it like? The clubhouse was the first online community I ever joined. I was looking for strategy and information for Sid Meier's SimGolf and noticed it in the fansite links on the official site. What made it so attractive was the sense of community and good fellowship. There wasn't any cursing or fighting, everyone seemed to respect one another. It was unique in that regard. I still don't find many sites that have accomplished that. How long have you been administrators here at ST? Ryan: Forever... Sam: About a year and a half. Have you ever had any other positions as staff? Ryan: I haven't. Sam: I've been a chat op and a moderator at simtropolis Samantha - did you ever have any parts that you enjoyed about any particular one of those posts? I really enjoyed getting to know the people responsible for making simtropolis. Helping out was fun and getting to know the members was a blast too! You just recently were involved in a move to another city for promotions. How did that work out that you were both promoted to the same city at the same time? Sam: Ry was offered a promotion, which was great - but left me a little stuck. My HR director suggested that one of the clinics could use my help. I applied and got the job as assistant manager. It worked out well, but took some coordination! Speaking of jobs, what do you two do for a living? Ryan: I manage a small office for a financial institution Sam: I help manage a local dental clinic. What part of being an admin do you prefer the most? Ryan: I've always liked handling the tougher issues that Dirk has to deal with. When Dirk has had to remain diplomatic, I've been able to speak my mind. I tend to enjoy taking out the trash, if you get my meaning... Sam: I've enjoyed making strong friendships with the other admins and members of the site. I've met so many wonderful people at simtropolis, some I'll know for the rest of my life, and others I'll remember with fond memories. Any particular places you like to hang out when you're browsing on ST? Ryan: I like the chat room, though I haven't been around much. I also check up on threads in the simtrop related forum to find out what’s going on. Sam: I like off topic and simtrop related the most. When and how did the two of you first meet? Ryan: We met in the chat room at simtrop the first time. We traded msn information and photos about a month later. We were both playing Simgolf at the time as well as SC4. I was making Simgolf mods and Sam actually requested one from me. That might have been our first encounter at the site. Sam, you were living in the UK at the time, correct? That gives a new meaning to the term "long-distance" relationship. Hehe, yeah - the phone and internet are wonderful! We still got to see each other everyday, and talk before falling asleep. What part did you guys have in the creation of simtropolislovesdirk.com and where did the idea come from? Sam: simtroplovesdirk was the brainchild of GouRou really, thats where the inspiration came from. Gou did all the programming kind of stuff, Ryan helped with graphics and design, and I worked mostly on content and approaching people for their comments. It was a fun time, and we gave Dirk a real surprise! Rybolton, what was the inspiration for proposing to Sam on ST and not doing it privately like most people would do? Well I decided to make it very meaningful to both of us. I figured that I should ask in front of our extended family and since I couldn't afford to take simtropolis out to dinner I just asked in the forum. Sam: He did actually propose twice, there was a private occasion...I came home (to the States) to a bedroom filled with red and pink helium balloons...and a huge pink carebear, with an engagement ring on a ribbon around its neck. When were you two married? Sam: January 26th 2005 What kinds of things do you like to do in your spare time when you're not on ST? Ryan: We enjoy traveling and seeing new places. We both love roller coasters so we're planning a winter trip to SixFlagsMagicMountain. Sam: We actually live next door to the most beautiful gardens, so we enjoy walking and picnics there now that the weather is getting nicer. Any particular places that you've traveled to that you wish you could go see again? Ryan: The San Juan Islands are beautiful and we both enjoy visiting there. Its one of the few places we keep going back to. If you could only three roller coasters again, which would they be and why? Ryan: If I were able to visit only 3 roller coasters in my life I'd have to ride X at MagicMountain, Top Thrill Dragster at Cedar Point and Nemesis at AltonTowers. I haven't yet ridden any of them. Of the coasters I've ridden, I'd say Great Bear and Storm Runner at HersheyPark, Viper and MagicMountain. Sam: I'd just go ride whatever Ryan wants to ride but I'm looking forward to our trip to MagicMountain later this year. Besides SC4, what other games do you like to play? Ryan: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is awesome! I usually enjoy FPS games but I've played and enjoyed The Movies, Civ4 and Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 recently as well. I also own a PSP so I play a few games on that too. Sam: I'm currently playing Super Princess Peach and The NEW Super Mario Brothers on my Nintendo DS. I play The Sims 2 and the expansion packs. Do you ever play against each other? Ryan: We have before. We used to play America's Army together with my clan. That was before she was in the US and we had to start sharing a PC. Before we wrap this up, is there anything you would like to say to the community? Ryan: I'd like to thank everyone for being supportive when I needed them and for being good friends. I think of almost every simtrop member as a friend or a friend I've yet to meet. Sam: I'm very grateful for everyone that I have met on Simtrop, my husband, and all my close friends. It’s been an awesome few years, and I know that this community will continue to amaze me for many more years to come! Cheers!

Today we will talk with Voar Tok, the winner of the EOTM for March 2006. - When did you join Simtropolis? I originally joined ST about a year ago - either in late March or early April. I used to go by a different screenname back then, but I changed it because I got really tired of it. Anyway, I've been using this name since early October, and yes, I'm going to stick with this one. lol - Why did you join Simtropolis? I've heard that most people come for the STEX, but I actually came looking for information on learning the BAT. I first came to the site back in May of 2004, but I didn't register because of the cookie management issues on my computer. Back then, the Essential BAT tutorial didn't exist (well, it wasn't anywhere that I could find it) and DarkMatter had written the only tutorial that I could follow along with. Unfortunately, I still couldn't really get the hang of what he had written, and I gave up any hope of ever learning to BAT. As luck (or whatever you want to call it) would have it, I decided to make one last attempt to find some useful information on learning the BAT. Almost an entire year had passed since then, and the Essential BAT tutorial had been posted on the home page. ST was at the top of the Google hits, so I dropped by and checked the tutorial out. When I saw the thing, I realized that I absolutely had to get a copy of it, and I eventually ended up registering a few days later. - When did you become a member of staff? I became a member of staff back on March 27 at approximately 10:15 PM local time. I remember that really well because my open-jawed reaction to being offered a job as a chat op probably gave some dude on the other end of the world a nasty headache. lol - Why do you think you became a member of staff? I'm not entirely sure why it was that SkiGeek asked if I would be willing to be a chat op. I guess that it will be one of those mysteries that only the Dirktatorship knows. - Did you ever expect to win the EOTM? Heck no. I didn't even expect to win a hero's biscuit or something of that nature - let alone one of the best awards on the site. I basically just wanted to help give back to the community that has helped me so much in the year that I have been here. ST literally changed my life in some ways, and there isn't anyway to fully say "thank you" for all of the stuff that Dirk, the admins, and the other members here have done. - Why do you think the admins chose you for the EOTM? I've been told that it has to do with the help I offered the rest of the staff with the second phase of the upgrade. Other than that, I really don't know for sure. On the other hand, I've never really thought of myself as a helpful person. Primarily, I just try to be a decent guy who acts in a decent manner to others. In other words, I try to follow the golden rule. - Do you think winning the EOTM will inspire you to do more for Simtropolis? That's rather difficult to answer in a coherent way. It will inspire me in the sense that I know that I'm doing something right and I can continue to do that and help the community in the process. Conversely, it's not going to inspire me spend my time trying to dream up grandiose and impractical ideas just so that I can say that I'm living up to my award. There are better and more practical ways to be helpful than that. - What do you consider your greatest contribution to Simtropolis? I can't say that I've necessarily made great contributions to the site. Basically, I just try to help where I can. But if I had to pick something, I would say that my greatest contribution to ST would probably be working to help convert the omnibus. The omnibus is near and dear to me, although the other teams that I am a part of likewise hold a special place in my life. Heck, this entire site is special to me. - What are your favourite Simtropolis memories? Well, I REALLY enjoyed the 2005 Trixies. But I think that some of my fondest moments here are the ones that took place behind the scenes. I've gotten to know some of the admins (one in particular ) and the late nights working on stuff to help make the site what it is. The more that I get to peak behind the curtain, the more I realize that there is a lot of stuff that has to go on in the background to make what people see in foreground a reality. Another good memory was the conspiracy to make Dirk the February 2006 EOTM. He really deserved that award. (And for those of you who are wondering, EOTM actually stands for Employer of the Millennium in this case). - What are your main staff jobs on Simtropolis? One of my jobs as a member of the staff is to keep an eye on the chat. Basically, I see to it that everyone is following the rules, and if someone isn't following them, then I do something about it. Otherwise, I just sit back and have a nice chat with people. As of this writing, I also moderate the Sound Room, which is where the podcasters meet. I can't tell you any more than that though, as there is a reason why it is a private room. lol - What is your favourite part of being on the Simtropolis staff? I'd say that it is definitely finding out how things work on this site. Getting to go behind the curtain is a lot of fun. The extra responsibilities that are necessary for the job also enforce the reality of how it's not something to be taken lightly either. You do set an example for everyone else. The key to it is that you have to know how to have fun and still be stern when you have to. Also, the mutual respect that everyone shows each other is a real plus. I'd say that the bond between the members of site staff is like that of a close family. - Are there any other game you play besides SimCity and if so could you name us a few of them? Let's see, I play Halo, Halo 2, and when it comes out Halo 3. lol Actually, I don't have any of those games (or even a system). Luckily, I have RL friends who do, so when we get together, we frag the living daylights out of each other. I do have some other games though, like Star War Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. One of my friends just recently gave me a copy of Myst 3: Exile, so I'm going to have to give that a shot soon. Since I'm also into strategy games, I have a copy of Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 (which I would play if I could find the disc). Oh well. I'll play basically anything as long as we can play PvP on it. I have some rather hilarious stories of times when I was playing with friends under some of the most ridiculous conditions (way beyond the usual stuff of going late into the night). They make for awesome memories. Whoever said video games couldn't bring people together got that wrong. lol I won't get started on all of the games that I would love to have but don't have money for. If I did, this interview would need an intermission. - What do you do as a job in real life? Whether or not this counts as a job depends on your opinion, but my "job" is that of a high schooler. Basically, I do homework and stuff like that. lol - What do you do in your free time away from Simtropolis and SimCity? In my spare time, I usually do stuff on my computer. Sometimes I chat with people. Other times I work on stuff for homework or personal hobbies. And sometimes, I play games. - Is there anything else you would like to tell us? I'd like to say thanks to all of ST. I can easily say that the last 12 months of my life have been some of the best of my life, and I am REALLY going to hate not having regular computer access this summer. This might sound a little weird, but part of me wishes that summer wouldn't happen. Oh well, it's coming up soon, but when it's done, I'll be back to cruising the most awesome site on the web. Thank you for joining us today Voar Tok!! You've been a great help around the site!

Interview with Joesocwork, Advocate for Troubled Yutes When did you join Simtropolis? Almost two years ago, about 3 months after I bought SC4D. According to ThatMonkeySim in one of the Off-Topic posts, I came along between the Boomer & ‘Nam generations, just like in Real Life! What convinced you to join the site? SimTropolis has a lot of strong advocates and ambassadors over at SimCity.Com. ST really filled a void that was created when Maxis began to put its attention elsewhere. I first used the site to ask questions about game play. However through SimTropolis I discovered all of these specialty niches such as BAT'ing, modding, terraforming, SimMars, and the City Journals. I used the STEX to enhance my cities and I felt comfortable that I wasn’t downloading items that were plagiarized. As I acquired downloads I felt a need to give back and started to study some of the tutorials and offering advice in the Forums. I ultimately found myself really enjoying the Community and hooked on Off-Topic and the other Community Forums before being noticed and being asked to serve on the ST staff. Besides the all-important and highly addicting job of being an admin at the greatest gaming fan site of all eternity, what do you do for a job? I’m a clinical social worker in the metropolitan Washington, DC area. I supervise other social workers who help out young people and families. So the “SocWork” in your username doesn’t mean that you work in a sock factory? ROFL!!! I get a kick out that question… no pun intended! The name basically means Joe the Social Worker, Joe Social Work, or Joe Social Worker! SocWork and Swk are common Internet abbreviation extensions for my profession in various e-mail and newsgroup lists. People in D.C tend to identify themselves by their profession. Where did you get the term yute? From the movie “My Cousin Vinny.” Is your job as a social worker the theme behind your CML Advocate for Troubled Yutes? The label basically is whatever the creators (the rest of the Dirkstatorship) decided to make of it. No one ever chooses their label; that’s part of the fun! I suspect that it probably does help define my role as a staff member however. How did you get the nickname Uncle Joe? I think that’s informally kind of my second CML! SimTropolis has almost always felt like a family from the get go. Could you explain the thought behind your Trixie award winning quote "Lurk before you leap"? Initially I got the idea from the homesite, where the word lurk seemed to be used a lot in a positive way, in contrast to how it’s usually used negatively on the Internet. When I was a newcomer here I noticed that there are many various layers and specialties within SimTropolis that can take some guiding through. I’m not very technically oriented so I realized and appreciated that there were some forums that I was more qualified to comment on than others. The slogan was a way of reminding others and myself that quality counts as much as quantity and that there’s more than one way be an active participant. What was it like to experience the 2005 Trixies as an admin? I had a real blast! It absolutely LOTS of fun to see things behind Dirk’s curtain. Much of my time as a staff member is usually spent enabling things to run relatively smoothly within the Community. However in reviewing the nominations, The Trixies gave me a better appreciation of the artistry that goes into the BAT’s, mod’s, maps, city journals, all of our assorted projects, and even posting in general. We have a very talented membership. What did you enjoy the most about the Trixies? Announcing the results! Despite some of the anticipated favorites there was a lot of balance in the nominations. Along with the expected well-deserved votes of most well known artists like SimGoober, Tropod, and Jeronij, we also received many specialty and silly ad hoc nominations that we were allowed to use in the final process. For example “The best rural CJ” started as ad hoc but now seems like a natural regular award and the “most likely to be sprinkled on oatmeal” gave us a good laugh. All of these additions gave the awards a greater sense of balance and inclusivity for our regular membership. There remained a lot suspense even for us as the count went along. And when they finally came out it truly felt Christmas had come to SimTropolis. If you had to choose between playing SC4 or hanging out on ST, which would you pick? Not even close. I spend LOTS more time with SimTropolis than playing SimCity or other computer games. SC4 might be in pastime that’s in our heads, but ST is a community that’s in our hearts. Since becoming a staff member I now play SimCity from time to time so that I can stay current with SimTropolis. What other games do you like to play when you're not being a mayor to your sims? I like strategy games like the Civilization franchise , Rome: Total War, and Rise of Nations, and simulation games Railroad Tycoon. They kept me hooked b/c I could hardly wait to see what happens at the next turn. I do wish they were more open-ended like SC once you’ve completed their objectives though. I’ve also done a couple of first person shooters, Splinter Cell & Call of Duty; they felt like riding on a rollercoaster! I also do a couple of solitaire Mah Jonng type games for 1-5 minutes at a time to relax and change gears when I’m multi-tasking at work. I’ve also recently started playing The Sims II for the first time. I hated the first one. It felt like playing in a doll’s house & I didn’t like telling characters to go to the bathroom. But the sequel has quickly grown on me. In a weird way the aspirations and skill levels remind me of RPG’s, (except you’re pretty much stuck in the same dungeon, er house.) The social interactions, some of the them quite (seemingly) spontaneous, and life cycle make the characters more poignant, appealing, and easier to care about. Do you have any particular pastimes? Other than ST, basically computer games and outings with my kiddoes. I consider myself to be a workaholic at my job; RL keeps me quite busy and I try to keep up without burning out. I enjoy the couple of hours a night living in other (cyber) worlds when the rest of the family is asleep and I don’t have to concentrate on being a social worker. You recently were interviewed on the ST Cast. Is this your first time being interviewed on mass media? Over the years I’ve been on the radio a few times to discuss various social service projects that I was representing. I’ve also been on tv a couple of times to help a couple of children to get adopted. I’ve also filled in for my evangelist with some 20 minute lessons for cable. I’m kind of proud of having to have made the most of those opportunities b/c I grew with a pretty bad stutter when I was a yute and I still have mild hearing problems related to a condition similar to dyslexia. You used to have stuff in your signature about autism. Is that something that you have a special feel for? My son has autism. Unlike my dyslexia or other things that the children I work with go through, his condition totally baffles me. I continue to be at a loss at what’s the best way to help him past this; I try to be the best parent I can be. Sometimes my profession and background helps, but I’m always seeking answers. Prayer and faith helps a lot though. Despite the stereotypes about autism, my son is a quite loving boy. Do you still have plans to build a school for the disabled? Yes, specifically for youth who have learning disabilities but who are pretty high functioning and are motivated to succeed. I’ve had that goal since working on my degrees in social work and have developed a network of resources to help to engage in it slowly w/out losing my current job. They say that stating your goals out in the open helps to encourage one to make them come true. It’s been somewhat slow going due to other RL concerns, but I’m finding that to be the case. And for that matter: I’ve got goals to do start a couple of BAT projects. (not that I’m confusing the two mind you). If ten million bucks fell in your lap while on you were on your way to work, what you would do with it? I’ll have to ask my wife! J/k. Lessee, a house, a new house for my wife’s parents, kiddoe’s education taken care of, support a couple of preachers, my school, and invest the rest. At most, the splurging would be on a souped up gaming computer, some steak dinners, and indulge in a part time acting career. Something tells me that even 10 mill, if not thought out through well enough, could go by pretty quickly! Any final words you'd like to say to the community? Basically what I’ve said in the other interview: SimTropolis really is more than a fansite, it is a cybercommunity in the truest best sense of the word. I’ve seen nothing like it on any of the fansites for any other computer games. And we’ve got the best membership on the Internet! This article was made with the help of the Simtropolis Help Squad!

What convinced you to join Simtropolis? It was me buying the game. I lurked around ST for a little before, but when I bought the game, I knew it was time to join. Any particular part of the site that really impressed you? The City Journals. I bought the game for the city planning and seeing how well I could make a city and the people in the CJs gave me a lot of pointers and were very friendly. What was the very first CJ you ever made? It was TolerCounty, which was supposed to be KanawhaCounty; but I changed the name at the last second. It lasted for a bit until my cousin erased my files... Is that how WoodCounty was born? No, after Toler County it was Independence City which was my most successful and largest, population-wise, region I had made up to that point. I even had a few more CJs after that but then I got bored with SC4 because it was so hard to do things. Back then I had 256mb RAM so it was hard to do anything. WoodCounty came after a 7 month hiatus. So you had a lot of experience building regions by the time that you created WoodCounty? Not really... lol, but a lot of people had said that my other projects were really good even though all my CJs were aimed at making the most population and not realism, with the exception of New Marion River Valley, though that one only lasted 2 pages. Wow, only two pages. What happened to that one? Well I still had 256mb RAM and I was using a Large Map. Do the Math. Wood County has become probably your most famous CJ ever, what was the inspiration for it? I finally looked at the CJ Section of ST for the first time in forever in March 2005 and I was amazed at the progress that had been made. For example, the BATs which I never really used up to that point, the Mods that came out, and of course SCR lol, But mostly it was a new found interest in city planning that came out of this Engineering Program that I was in WV. The only reason that WoodCounty is my most famous, though, is because mostly all the other ones didn’t get past page 4, with the exception of IndependenceCity which made it to 9. What did you do in this Engineering Program? The Program was for High School Students that were interested in Engineering, of course, and it took them to see real life engineers that make real life things and we also go to do some things of our own, such as bridge which mine was the cheapest of everyone’s, even the professionals! It sounds like you have a future in engineering. Any thoughts on what you want to do for a living in the future? I want to become either a Civil Engineer and build the roads and highways of the world, kind of like how I do on paper now and in the past, or a city planner and tell everyone how to build the roads and highway lol, especially where I live now... its horrible. Getting back to WoodCounty for a moment, what gave you the idea to name stuff after the people that posted? Really, I think it was because I wanted it to be more of a ST CJ and not a CJ CJ... if that makes any sense. That makes sense. Why is WoodCounty now on it's third iteration? LOL, well its not really my fault on all of them! Ok, for the first one my computer had gotten reformatted because of viruses and stuff and the Hard Drive screwed up, then I come to find out that the people that did the back up didn’t back up the plug-ins and stuff, so i had the region but no plug-ins, though I was thinking of restarting anyway. The second I think had something to do with me having too much on that large map for my computer to handle, so it wouldn’t load. Now I'm on one of the fastest laptops around and I have all my files backed up twice. So unless I want to restart, which I don’t see happening, this should be the last one. Any big things planned for WoodCounty in the future? Haha, well I have alot of ideas but I dont either A: know how I want to go about making it or B: Are waiting till I get more done till I start with them. But when something big comes up I'll be sure to let everyone know. Besides playing SC4, what other games do you like to play? I like to play alot of sports games so that is pretty much 80% of my other games lol. Other than that I play GTA, Splinter Cell, Halo 2, and Crimson Skies Any particular pastimes besides gaming? Playing football with my friends, as i said before drawing highways (yes i know its weird), and just trying to be as active as possible, though I dont think that works most of the time. What is the meaning behind your CML? My CML pretty much means The Fake/Simulated Monkey/Ape and the story behind it is in my username. If you check out The_Monkeys_Uncle, he has Relative Ceboidea which is an ongoing joke from the old days of ST. Since you began BATting, have you uploaded anything? Yes, the only thing that I thought was worth releasing after 2 year is Chase Commons Apartments. But just after a quick glance of the STEX today I found out that my upload got lost in the transition to 5.0... i might have to find it again. Do you think that you'll ever rival DT? lmao!! nah, but he and superstar have been the reason why I came back to BATing and have been a great help. Maybe soon I'll be good enough not to be called a *****. Any final words that you would like to shout out to the community? Hmm... Well thanks to all those that have helped me in the past and in the future and to all my best friends on ST, you know who you are, who are people that come and talk to about almost anything. Also to Dirk for bring ST 5.0[beta] to life and may he finally get the sleep that I told him to get. This article was made with the help of the Simtropolis Help Squad!

Editor's Note: SkiGeek filed paperwork to change her username to Meg after this article was first published, so look for Meg, not SkiGeek! We all know of the admins as being a wonderful and good-natured bunch that spend countless hours helping to maintain this wonderful site. In that same good-natured spirit, they have agreed to be interviewed. This is the first in the series. -- How did you first find out about ST and what convinced you to sign up? I found it on Google. I had never played a SimCity game before and had no idea what I was doing. This looked like a good place to find out. -- When did you first start playing SimCity? Shortly before I signed up here. So that must have been about February 2003. --You conducted a few game experiments in the past. Which one was the most fun to work on? I like the one about education. Those are my first cities that looked semi-decent. It was fun watching them grow. --Do you still play SC4? Sometimes. I'll go through phases with it, where I play for a while, then get too busy with other things and go back weeks later. --Besides SimCity, what other games do you like to play? I am currently addicted to Snoodoku. I've always had a tendency to be addicted to games. Thankfully, it no longer requires pumping quarters into machines like it did when I was a kid. --That do you think was the first game that got you hooked? Hmm...that was a while ago...maybe it was Centipede? But that was an arcade game. If you are talking about PC games, it would have to be the original Soviet version of Tetris. --It says in your profile that you read the chat logs. Why do you read them? Are they like therapeutic bedtime material? LOL - I wouldn't call them therapeutic, although they can be funny sometimes. I'm just checking to see how things are going. Some days there is only time for a quick scan through them. Other days I wind up banning people for things they did earlier in the day. --Since you are the cyber mom, do you feel that we are like your cyber kids? In many cases, yes. I do feel very protective of the kids around here. If any nasty people come sniffing around my cyber-kids, they get banned. I once banned a guy because the email address he used to register indicated that it came from a kiddy porn site. As far as I know, he didn't post here, he never went into the chat room, and never had any contact with anyone here. But he is still banned. Many people get a second chance. Not this guy. --All of the members know that you are an administrator here at ST, but what do you do for a living in real life? In real life, I really am a retired computer geek. Aside from collecting my pension each month, I work at investing my IRA money so that it will still be worth something when I'm old enough to withdraw it. (and, no, I'm not currently old enough to withdraw money from an IRA without penalty.) I'm getting serious about various kinds of investments. --Most adults your age know very little about computers and probably don't care about learning either. What gave you the desire to work with computers? LOL - most adults my age? Guess you never met my former co-workers. I've spent my adult life working with people working with computers. I first learned to program in high school. They were teaching Fortran at the time. I was fortunate enough to have a knack for programming at a time when the world wanted to train and hire programmers. The Fortran didn't last long but I've been paid to write in a dozen or so different languages since then. I only spent about a decade or so actually programming, though. I turned out that I can speak both techie-ese and bureaucrat-ese and wound up in various jobs where the main task was to translate. Not that they called it that. And I am a second generation computer geek. My father's old boss claims that my dad was the first person to write a program that ran successfully on a US Department of Defense computer. My dad doesn't believe that, though. He thinks his old boss is exaggerating. He is 81 but his memory is still pretty good. --Have you ever built your own computer? Heck, no. I'm not into the hardware. My brother is the hardware geek in the family. He likes to tell that joke: How many programmers does it take to change a light bulb? (None; it's a hardware problem.) While I quote back to him the famous saying of a hardware geek co-worker: "My system would be just fine if the users would just leave it alone!" --Judging from your user name, is it safe to assume that you like to ski? Yes, I like to ski. I learned during university ski club trips during the semester breaks. Rather amazing, really, considering I have virtually no athletic talent. But I learned in New England which gives me an advantage in what some people consider adverse conditions. (Ice? The people in the Rockies think *that* is ice? Ha!) --What kind of skiing do you like to do? Downhill skiing, preferably in the Rockies (it's not that I like the ice). But that isn't always possible seeing as how I live in Maryland. Cross country skiing is just another form of jogging and the only form of jogging that I like is deep water running. I've torn the ligaments in both ankles and they don't react well to high impact activities. --What hobbies do you have besides skiing and playing SimCity? I enjoy sewing. The process of making something useful is gratifying. They say we all have the need to make something and, these days, most of us don't actually create anything tangible. Which is supposed to be one reason why people are so cranky. This past summer, I was in a Youth/Adult bowling league, which was rather amusing. My team did well in the league, mainly because we were highly erratic and could beat our handicaps. I've also done a lot of genealogical research which I'd like to put into several books one day, one straight factual for my relatives and one slightly fictionalized. Truth is stranger than fiction and it turns out that my great-great-grandparents lead lives worthy of a soap opera. There should be a book in there somewhere. But I guess many people think they are going to write the great American novel one day. --What do you think about the fact that you are on Google? LOL - everyone on Simtropolis is on Google. It was odd, though, to see that someone else managed to come up with the same stupid name that I did. That was kind of weird. It's more interesting, though, that Google recently broke 400 on the stock exchange. For people who bought the stock shortly after the IPO and held it, the rate of return is around 200%. (and, yes, part of my IRA is in Google.) --If you could bring back one aspect (design layout, color scheme, etc.) of any of the previous versions of ST, what would it be? I have hopes of the snowy banner coming back soon. But... there it is already! --Do you have any suggestions for the people that are new to ST? I like Joe's advice: Lurk before you leap. I haven't been on many fansites out there but, as I understand it, our rules are a little stricter. It would be nice of people would bother to read them before they start posting. It's not like I enjoy banning people. Although I was quite happy to ban that guy I mentioned earlier. --Before we wrap this up, is there anything that you would like to say to the community? I would like to thank everyone for all of the fun I have had over the past couple of years. I think it's great to be part of such a friendly inter-national community.

JanYpe: The issue with the regulation is not that it doesn't exist. The energy industry in the US is regulated quite heavily. The problem is that the regulators weren't doing their job. When BP had their Texas City accident, there were regulations on the books before saying that they couldn't have offices right next to blowdown stacks, but BP did it anyway. And the government didn't bother to stop them. That's the exact same thing that happened here. Nonny Moose: Love it or hate it, the law of the sea isn't the same anymore. The only way that the skipper is truly the head of the ship is if he owns the ship. If the ship is owned by a company, he's nothing more than mid-level manager and no more in charge than the head manager at Best Buy. Barbarossa: Another reason why people are hating on BP is what sort of compensation packages BP is offering. For example, BP was (may still be) offering people a paltry $5,000 in exchange for not suing them. Then they wondered why it is that no one wanted to take that offer. Just about everyone and his brother who has any connection to seafood is going to be suing, and BP seriously thought that people would be interested in such a small amount.

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose Originally posted by: Easy Bakes Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose Originally posted by: Ilikeseattle Transocean should cease to exist.quote> Why? They are only as much in this soup as the other corporations involved. The main punishment will be dealt out to the captain of the ship, who will probably lose his master's certificate. The corporations will be held relatively harmless because of the limited liability of share companies. Their insurance companies will take the big fiscal hit and this is limited by the terms of the policies. Governments will be left with the remainder. .quote> That depends who you belive, and what evidence comes out implicating BP in overriding the onsite personals decisions. Acording to interviews from the survivors there were decisions made by BP that violated safety procdures. quote> It doesn't matter. The captain is responsible for everything and everyone on the ship. Decisions made by others and not countermanded by him have his approval. quote> This isn't the days of aquatic glory where the captain went down with his ship. Nowadays, the captain is only as responsible as the entity that owns or controls the ship will let them be. There is no way that the captain could have gone up against BP and said that the safety valve that was supposed to stop oil flow in the event of an accident was broken and that he was going to shut down the rig or else until it was fixed. BP would have just fired his ass and put someone new in there. And yes, BP should be in a heap of steaming you know what after this because of what they did. The main blame falls with them and honestly, I would love to see something drastic happen to them - like being banned from drilling or refining in America or something like that. The reason why people are so pissed at them is because in only five years, they've had 26 fatalities from explosions resulting from faulty equipment that should have been fixed, but BP said to hell with it and ran the equipment anyway. You would have thought they might have learned something after they just about blew Texas City off the map.

Swine flu and regular flu aren't the same thing. That's why they have two separate shots for it. Although, having had swine flu already this year, I can say that the cure is worse than the disease.

Originally posted by: Kryptowhite Been there, done that. Fun disease. Got out of school for 5 days. Go Swine Flu!quote> I got swine flu. Really, it's not that bad. No worse than regular flu. The only issue is that there isn't a vaccine just yet, so everyone was causing mass pandemonium when it came out last year. The key is to get to a doctor the minute you are sure that you have the flu. They'll write you a prescription for TamiFlu, which, if taken in the first couple of days of symptoms, really works wonders. The doctor I went to told me to go home and stay there for a week. One of the best weeks of my life. The CDC has estimated that as much as 50% of the US population with get some variation of the flu this year, but I think the bit about 90K people dying from it is over-hyped. Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but I'm not aware of any cases of swine flu actually killing anyone in the US so far.

Originally posted by: Barbarossa Originally posted by: Voar Tok Personally, what I'd love to see everyone do electronic copies of is textbooks. Check this out - no distribution cost, no printing cost, and you never have to worry about returns. I hate electronic textbooks for reading, but that's why I print them all out. I bet I don't do any more damage to the environment printing mine out than they do printing out their copy of it.quote> I agree that it would be nice and I think it is definitely worth consideration. It will certainly alleviate some financial issues for students. My only reservation being practical logistics. Sometimes the book is needed in class, sometimes conscientious students need to review something on-the-fly, sometimes a PC is just not available, and then there is the omnipresent idea of tactile benefit. Everyone learns in a different way: OJT (on-the-job-training), visual, and auditory. Regardless of those, this is definitely worth a try.quote> Well, if you think about it, you can pretty much solve all those problems with electronic textbooks. If you need it in class or you know that you're going to need to be able to review things on the fly, just print a copy. Odds are good that if you need to review something on the fly and you weren't expecting it, well, you probably don't have the textbook around anyway. I don't know any college students that just carry all their textbooks with them around on campus - usually only the ones that they need for that day. As for the learning preferences, well, nothing can replace on-the-job training, but when you get to the visual and the auditory, computers offer some benefit here. If you hate electronic texts, you can print them like I can. If you're an auditory learner, then you can have the computer read you the book (or something).

Originally posted by: Duke87 Originally posted by: Jezus53 The writer can do whatever they please with their work. Sure it seems weird to restrict your own work, but to see another company potentially make money off of your work is aggravating.quote> The point is that I, the end user, find it reasonable to have to pay for it, but find it ridiculous to have it simply be no longer available. For this reason, I've always said that all copyright on a work ought to legally surrendered upon it ceasing publication, and I still hold to that. Either keep selling it, or start letting people distribute it for free. Doing neither is insane. After all, if they're not costing you money by distributing it, why stop them? quote> Well, at some point, the item ought to become free, but the question is at what point. In the trademark world, a company loses the right to its trademark when the public adopts the trademark as the de facto name for the product, sort of how everyone calls tissues by the name of Kleenex. Usually copyrights expire after either fifty or one hundred years. Personally, I say that if the book is no longer protected by copyright, then it ought to be available for free. Maybe some nominal fee to put the book in a downloadable internet copy so there's at least some incentive from publishers to publish old books like The Prince for example. Personally, what I'd love to see everyone do electronic copies of is textbooks. Check this out - no distribution cost, no printing cost, and you never have to worry about returns. I hate electronic textbooks for reading, but that's why I print them all out. I bet I don't do any more damage to the environment printing mine out than they do printing out their copy of it. And to everyone - no one is saying that books shouldn't be available in a paper form. Like I said, I hate e-books with a passion, but they should still be available online for those of us who like instant gratification. Now, a question I have is this - when a publisher buys your book, does that mean that they still have to pay you royalties on your book for each one sold, or is everything said and done and any money they make is theirs to keep? For example, Hillary Clinton wrote an autobiography and her book was bought by a publishing company for $8 million. Since they bought the rights to the book from her, does that mean that they still have to pay her royalties or not? Because if they don't have to pay royalty fees anymore, that would be a great deciding point as to whether or not an out-of-print book should be available for free. In an ideal world, I'd like to see an electronic copy of every out-of-print book available on the website of the Congressional Library or National Archival service or something.

I would like to share this email I received about the actions that the government is taking in response to the bailouts. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves. Oh how true.

This is just amusing... British Airways asks staff to work for free It's going to be a while before the economy completely recovers. Honestly, in some regards, I hope it doesn't recover. The last time we had a major disaster like this, it was because the credit system was way too loose and people who didn't deserve the credit were still able to get it. Now we did it again. Think we'll learn our lesson?

Originally posted by: Barbarossa Originally posted by: manticorefan Originally posted by: Barbarossa I tire immensely of conservative philosophy regarding the world we live in. They continuously seek to impose their narrow mindset on the entire populace and have an intense dislike of viewpoints they do not share. Barbarossaquote> I know, those darn conservatives are the only ones who are like that. Unlike everyone else, who are just happy to accept any viewpoint they disagree with and never protest when things don't go their way. Liberals are always ready to vote for people who don't share their positions, right? I mean, the liberal POV is so broad compared to other POVs that it just encompasses everything, unlike those accursed conservatives. It's good to have others to use as a whipping boy, so we don't have to look at our own flaws and failings.quote> Although I know you are being sarcastic, your reply is essentially true, except for the last sentence. Which party is the most diverse? Which one is more engaged in civil rights? Which one believes in entitling different viewpoints to be able to practice their beliefs provately? Please do not attempt to make social conservativism better than it is. To approach this from a another side, look at examples. 1) I would not want my spouse to have an abortion, save in issues of health/development. So I guess I am personally anti-abortion. But I would never impose my POV on someone else, therefore abortion should be legal. 2) If I happened to be Christian, I would not promote prayer in schools, nor would I promote the teaching of religious doctrine in science classes, but only in a course that discusses all modes of belief. 3) I believe everyone should have access to healthcare. That does not mean it should be forced on everyone, but available to eveyone. 4) I'm not gay, but I support the rights of homosexuals to marry and would vote for any legislation that would legalize it. So... how exactly how do you think a social conservative would vote on these issues? 1) No abortion 2) Prayer in schools, ID in science courses 3) Private healthcare only 4) No marriage rights for homosexuals I think the facts speak for themselves. Barbarossa quote> Coming from a social conservative, let's see how I'd vote on those issues. 1) Abortion for health purposes is completely understandable. Although, there does need to be a point where abortion needs to have a reason other than not wanting the baby, because having an abortion when the only thing left to give birth to is the head deprives a kid of a life when the parents could have just as easily put the kid up for adoption. 2) No mandated prayer in schools. Just don't get upset if students would like to take a minute to pray, stretch, meditate, etc before classes or tests. As for science classes, I don't believe in macroevolution, but that doesn't mean I am going to through a hissy fit just cause they don't teach ID. Heck, my biology prof flat out told us that if we didn't believe in evolution, we weren't going to get along with him. I told him that I respectfully disagreed with him, but I wasn't going to expect him to change his teaching material to accomodate me. 3) I've never had an issue with having public healthcare running alongside private healthcare. Just don't try to socialize private healthcare. 4). Yeah - only problem with legalizing gay marriage is that you can't legislate the social stigma away. So, counting the votes up, you got a correct score of..... 0/4

Originally posted by: Duke87 Originally posted by: Ntq$310 well Duke it's just this. What do cars use? Gasoline, and oil product, what do airplanes use? a oil product, what do trucks use, a oil product. Now our trains also use some oil, but the question is how much.quote> ... Originally posted by: Duke87Cars do almost entirely run on gasoline (an oil product), but that can change. quote> I'll see your electric trains and raise you electric cars. quote> And I'll see your electric trains and cars and raise you an airplane that runs on vegetable oil. OK, not literally, since they've never taken the time to make one, but the point is that airplaine can run on anything that's liquid and combustible because they use turbine engines. Trains don't use much oil anymore if they are designed right, but train's aren't a practical replacement for the US right now. For people to really start giving up their cars, they need to be able to get from point A in a city to point B in a city more efficiently than many of them can. Mass transit sucks in the US.

Originally posted by: sneakeypete Originally posted by: Voar Tok The problem with HSR is that it's a wonderful idea that is completely impractical. It's jobs - yeah. Not all of the unemployed in the US are construction workers. On top of that, if you're going to spend that much money to invigorate the economy, why not just give all the unemployed people $50K with orders to spend it all in a year. You'll be spending less money and it'll be directly infused into the economy.quote> Because at the end of if you have nothing, whereas if you build HSR, or something, you'd at least have something for all the money spentquote> Oh, you'd get something for doing it the other way to. You'd get the money infused into the economy faster. $50K for a construction worker is kind of a lot, and on top of that, the money just given away can be given away with strings attached in traditional Obama style! Personally, I think that strings-attached money is some of the studipest stuff he's done and will do, but Obama will do what Obama wants to do, whether the justification is there or not.

The problem with HSR is that it's a wonderful idea that is completely impractical. It's jobs - yeah. Not all of the unemployed in the US are construction workers. On top of that, if you're going to spend that much money to invigorate the economy, why not just give all the unemployed people $50K with orders to spend it all in a year. You'll be spending less money and it'll be directly infused into the economy. HSR isn't practical for linking the US. It's like building an HSR line that links London to Baghdad. Also, they need to not do ten corridors like Yoman3 was saying. At most maybe link ten cities with their immediately surrounding major neighbor cities. I know this is going to piss some people off, but I'm sorry, cities like Kansas City, St. Paul, and Buffalo, to name a few, don't have enough economic clout to warrant having an HSR run to them yet. Houston, New Orleans, Washington DC through Boston, and California. That's enough to start the HSR on it's footing, and it'll have the biggest economic benefits for everyone.

I would like to clarify some issues that will probably present themselves before the misinformation begins to spread. (Seeing as how they are an issue on CNN.com already too). First off, the vast majority of Texans are not going to be in support of this. I'm a Texan, and proudly so, as well as a loyal American. The two are not mutually exclusive, and I'm not even close to being in support of secession. It's stupid. Perry is taking a page out of Sarah Palin's book and running his mouth because he's coming up for re-election and needs to try to establish some sort of relevancy with at least some contingent of voters. The vast majority of Texans think that he's one of the most irresponsible and ridiculous governors the state has ever had. There's a strong probability that he is going to be voted out of office when the chance presents itself, and he has to do something to try to look like he's got the backs of Texans. He's failing at it, but that's his plan. The ability of Texas to just legally leave the US is one that doesn't appear to be valid. The Supreme Court has ruled that the Constitution doesn't provide a method of legally leaving the Union, however, Texas does hold the distinction of being the only state that has ever been it's own independent nation (the thirteen original colonies don't really count because they pretty much acted like a nation, albeit a disfunctional one, after the American Revolution). Texas does however have special legal privileges that aren't given to the other states because it was originally a nation before it joined the United States. Such privileges are things like being able to legally fly the state flag at the same level as the national flag. Also, this boils down to more than just "there's a black man in the White House!!!" sentiments. Obama has stepped on a lot of toes and has talked about, or already succeded, in subverting some of the basic ideas that the country was founded on. Remember the shirts that went around with a picture of Bush's face and the caption "Not My President." A lot of the non-Obama people are feeling the same thing right now. I'm one of the people that looks at Obama's presidential plans and cringes a little on the inside because of what he's talking about doing. There won't be a secession over this, but Obama is going to be more controversial that Bush was.

Wow, so I haven't been here anywhere near as much as I wanted to in the past eight months or so, and I low and behold, I got a Trixie for it! Thanks everyone and especially to the rest of the staff for their support and understanding!

Originally posted by: duack Yeah my mistake . But whatever I still think micro-economic reform is vital to an economy. Anywho, you come across to me as a real 70's economist, the kind that led to the huge depression in the 80's. Here's a little history - after the great depression, people began believing that governments should be more involved with the economy. As a result, regulation was set up. There was however too much regulation and this is one of the factors that led to the reccession of the 80's. Here are some of the main kinds of regulation- -protection from free trade -Protection of workers rights and minimum wages. -assistance of firms through governmenbt control or financial assistance.quote> A 70s economist? Are you serious? Let me repeat my standing on what I would have liked to have seen happen as apparently this keeps getting missed... complete credit crash! This isn't a move of someone who wants the government to step in and keep things alive and kicking. This is basically the most extreme form of solving things that capitalism has to over. Recessions are not the result of government regulation. They are the result of waning consumer confidence. So long consumer confidence remains high, you can have just about as much regulation as you want and things will flow along. They won't be as efficient, but they'll keep posting positive numbers. Now, before the 80's, in australia there was too much of all three of these. many large firms were government owned and also protected from free trade, which meant little competition. But now, average tarriffs in Australia are like 1% so that creates a lot more competition and firms have been privatised and given less assistance from the government. Sure, many foreign companies have taken a large piece of the consumer market. But total GDP in Australia has risen more than it would have if there was no de-regulation and free trade. The main form of regulation that exists is the protection of workers rights. this obviously can't be too deregulated because then living standards would drop. But basically in Australia, the workers are protected, the businessess are not. Im guessing you would probably argue that this would mean failing businessess and that helping the poor destroys the economy but in 2007 or 2006 (have to check that one) Australia had the 3rd highest living standards in the world. Old economics theories would argue that this would mean Australia would come down hard in a reccession because wages are too high but now Australia is one of the few countries in reccession, and unemployment has fallen by only 0.1% since the credit crunch so this kind of disproves old economics. quote> OK, first off, here's a fundamental reason why you can't compare the US to Australia that easily. You said, and I quote: many large firms were government owned and also protected from free trade, which meant little competition.quote> I'm not going to say that such a thing didn't happen in the US, but it would have been far less likely. De-regulation leads to failing businesses and helping the poor destroys the economy? I am exuberantly happy to say that you guessed incorrectly on how I felt on the issue. Old economics would never argue that Australia would take a beating because the wages are too high. The kind of economics that espoused in the 70s is pretty new. Very simply - regulation should not benefit big business. The only govenment regulation that is needed is the kind that protects workers and the lower classes which maintains living standards. But protecting big businessess not only angers everyone socially, but it means the economy as a whole would be worse off. quote> Regulation hardly ever does. You should have seen the airline deregulation. And since when did protecting big business anger everyone socially? I'm not in favor of it, but most people don't care so long as everything's working right. Now in the 80's, Australia was in a reccession but this was when all the deregulation and micro-economic reform began, which only made the reccession worse. It was reffered to as the "reccession we had to have" and now the US is in a similar position and has to now have a similar reccession. Bailouts will only lead to further pain in the long term. And just as a final point, in the 80's, the Aust government had a lot of debt just like the US today. But thanks to the last reccession and the fact that large innefficient businessess were allowed to fail, the government now has no dabt at all.quote> The government having no debt as an effect that the large, inefficient businesses were allowed to fail is a cause and effect statement that has absolutely no connection at all. Large businesses have been allowed to fail in the US - all the time. Nothing happened to the debt. On top of that, a lot of Australia's foreign debt was privately owned. Not so in the US. Also, in my point to regulation, it depends on what kind it is. Regulation of businessess is very bad. It makes them innefficient because then they know if they don't make a profit - the government backs them up so they don't have an incentive to.quote> Not true. Find me a case in the US' history where, prior to this recession, we've made a point of bailing out tons of companies. Regulation has been there all they while, companies have made a profit and had incentive to do so, and inefficient companies died out. Financial institutions should never be regulated,according to the Pitchford thesis. The Pitchford thesis states that allowing people to take out huge loans is okay because generally, the loans are spent on business expansion or on property, which in the long run expand the economy and allow it to grow faster. in Australia, the average person's debt is higher than their income but the economy here is still fine, because the banks were deregulated and the Pitchford thesis is working. quote> The economy in Australia is fine because the Pitchford Thesis comes with a second part you didn't account for - you eventually have to start paying that back. In an discussion John Pitchford participated in, he cited the case of Singapore, which ran up a current account deficit for years. However, Singapore eventually paid all that back. Australia is doing the same thing, but Australia hasn't reached the point where they are expected to start paying it all back. Pitchford was eventually forced to admit though, although the timing is unknown, come a point where the money will have to be paid back, and in the event of a credit downgrade on Australia, things aren't going to be looking too pretty. Speaking of credit downgrades and Australian foreign debt, here's some reading material for you. Deep in foreign debt Foreign debt hits the trillion-dollar mark Both of these have taken place in Australia in the past year and, like it or not, will help to undermine the Australian economy. It should be noted that the Pitchford Thesis works because it is a bet against time. It's not guaranteed to work out, and it only works out for as long as foreign investors think that you're financially sound. If that confidence is destroyed, your economy is going to shrivel up fast. Borrowing more than you spend, even if it is for increasing your capacity, is a habit that can only be kept up so long. BTW, the Pitchford Thesis never says anything about banking regulation. It espouses the ability to take out loans, but never talks about a proper amount of banking regulation. And I agree with Pingangster in some parts. It depends on what kind of regulation it is. Regulation of businessess, inculding banks, should never be allowed. this causes innefficiencies and restricts entreprueners access to funds which will lead to a huge reccession. but the regulation I do agree with is that that affects wages and welfare payments. Not only because it raises living standards but because it helps stablise the economy. Allow me to explain-quote> Industries need regulations. I'm the kind of person who doesn't want anything more there than the barest minimum to make things run along smoothly, but if you do an in-depth analysis of government regulation, pretty much no one out there believes that there should be no regulations on business. Go read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle if you want a good look at what I'm talking about. He originally wrote the book to decry the issue of "wage slavery" but the book ended up being mostly about the cleanliness of the Chicago meatpacking industry. That is why I think that form of regulation is good. its common practice with the Australian government. When the economy grows too fast, they run a surplus, taking more money than giving. when the economy is too slow, they then put this money back in the eocnomy with tax cuts and increased welfare payments. This stablises the business cycle and provides the best possible opputrunites for businessess to grow.quote> I find this interesting because this is basically what the US is doing - smoothing out the recession, and yet you're criticizing it. The only difference is where the money is being spent.

Originally posted by: Patricius Maximus I'm not counting the smaller recessions, like the one in 1991. So, not counting that, it happened from 1982 to 2001.quote> Stuff like what you are and are not counting would be useful to let us know beforehand. Even still, why aren't you counting it? It's still a legitimate recession. Even then the average American was not a construction worker. These people who work in inefficient companies would be better off working for an efficient producer in the same trade, since then they would have better opportunity for career advancement with a growing company, than with a shrinking one. Yes, they may be unemployed for some time. In that event them being construction workers would be the best option (i.e. better than nothing).quote> People that work in an inefficient company would be better off working for an efficient company, in theory. Inefficient companies aren't categorically shrinking. And as for them being better off as a construction worker - yes, it is true that any job would be better, financially speaking, than no job, but in reality, that's not always feasible. I know people who are highly specialized in their field and were good at what they did that can't use a tape measure to save their life. That's example, but the point is that not everyone can just do any job. It's better to keep people at jobs they know how to do than expect them to just be able to do something else. What about IndyMac or WaMu? You cannot deny that these runs were more organized than the ones in the 1930's.quote> More organized as you put it does not equal organized. Being closer to an end goal doesn't make you there. That is precisely the point of the question. Would you prefer to hit rock bottom fast and get it done with, or draw it out and have it linger for years and years? Yes, short and slow is a lot easier for people to cope with. But no major recession has been short and slow.quote> I am aware of the fact that major recessions haven't been short and slow. Major recessions have a tendency to go jumping off into the great unknown to see what lies at the bottom of the graph page. Exponential decay hits harder and faster, and gets it over with. What would happen if all the mall anchor stores closed? That is unlikely to happen, but in that event, it would shake up the economy a lot, and after the short term, provide fertile ground for new retailers.quote> Yeah, but the point is that the economy would be reeling. That's not to say that it wouldn't recover, but it boils down to a matter of how a mass exit of companies affects the market. Option C is not an option in that hypothetical question. There is no example in US history, but there are a few times across the world where that has happened. You still have not answered the question.quote> I know that there's no example in US history. The long, protracted recessions that we've had in the past were all ones that started fast and hard and took forever to solve. The ones that went slow and peaceful ended up never being that bad. Hence why I said Option C because your hypothetical Option B doesn't exist in our record books. I am talking about making a monthly payment, not paying them all off immediately. If they can make their monthly payment, then they are practically fine, technically not fine. Also, I bet you can find plenty of people over 35 that cannot pay off their debts immediately. It is not just a phonomenon of young people.quote> In a complete credit crash, there is no such thing as monthly payments. You pay up in full and you do it now. Also, I was not trying to imply that people over 35 have all their credit lined up. I just picked an age where people stereotypically have a lot of loans to pay back - most of which will take some years and they wouldn't be very far into the payments. I could be wrong as well, but you cannot deny that there are auto upstarts, however successful they are at present.quote> Do they exist - yes. Are they successful - not by industry standards. If you're going to be a major player, it requires far more money than most people can muster. It's not enough to have your foot in the door. You have to be inside the door if you want to play. If the economy does not and will not rebound, then you are putting politics and revolution into the mix. I don't want to go there, as that is not in the scope of this topic.quote> Not really the scope of this topic, true, but at the same time, a major factor in any significant economic crisis. They have to be accounted for. If no one is ruined, it does not deserve to be called a depression. It is like natural selection -- the best survive, the worst fail. If an economy does not operate that way, it is not capitalist.quote> The point though is that the idea of launching the economy out of recession/depression is to cut down on the number of casualties. How about every single troubled company since Lehman went bankrupt? That counts as a habit that is starting. More than 7 trillion dollars have been spent, and nothing has changed.quote> So basically you're talking about every single company that's been bailed out in this whole process. That's not establishing a habit of bailouts. That's just finishing what they started. Find another recession that they've done this with and now we'll have standing for a habit starting. Actually, when you figure in the difference in inflation between 125 billion in the Great Depression and inflation now, that 125 billion suddenly becomes about 2 trillion dollars. quote> You said in your post that that figure was inflation adjusted. Don't adjust it twice to inflate your figures and boost your argument.quote> What?! Adjust it twice? I never did any such thing or even hinted at it! Clearly, you never bothered to research what I said. If you had, you would have run the numbers through an inflation calculator. If you had done that, you would have seen that I didn't have to go double-adjusting for inflation because the change between 2008's inflation rate and the inflation rate in 1935 (a year of the Great Depression I just arbitrarily picked), you would see that the Great Depression bailout balloons into about $2 trillion. Try testing the math for yourself. duack: Micro-economic reform and corrections are two topics that are barely even related. Micro-economic reform is the government changing the market structure (which in reality is more of a macro-based economic reform). Corrections is a term for when the stock markets go through hiccups.

Originally posted by: Patricius Maximus It's sad, this guy doesn't seem to know what lies outside his parents' basement...I mean, his gaming complex.quote> That cannot be determined. If he doesn't have his computers and equipment connected to surge protectors, then one lightning storm could put him out of business. How would he live then?quote> Obviously he does have surge protectors. He'd be stupid to not have them.quote> OK, wait a second. We look at the picture of a command console area that has easily $50K worth of computing equipment in it all spent on a hobby (something we can see) and can't assume that this guy has much of a social life, but we can assume that, from looking at the same $50K worth of stuff that he must obviously have surge protectors, even though we can't see them, because he'd be stupid not to? That doesn't even make sense. Anyway, the point is - we can't see from the picture whether or not he has a social life, and we can't see from the picture whether or not he has surge protectors (believe me, I looked and I couldn't find any). How is it, logically speaking, incorrect to assume he has no social life but correct to assume that he has a surge protector? We have no hard evidence of either. Saying that he'd be stupid not to have them doesn't work either because most people would consider him stupid for even having that much stuff for WoW. What I really want to know is how much it costs him to keep that cool. You know that many computers have to be hot. Heck, my laptop alone puts out enough heat to soften hard candy in a few minutes.

Again, I am just leaving your responses so as to cut down on the length of this post. Originally posted by: Patricius Maximus True. But the turnaround has to happen before prosperity kicks in. When did the last period of prosperity happen? After the turnaround of the 1982 recession.quote> Incorrect. The last period of significant prosperity took place during the tech bubble occurring from 1995-2001. Didn't require a recession either. Alright, call it pneumonia. However, the question is what kind is it? If it is bacterial, and the bacterium is job loss, then the infrastructure projects will be a perfect treatment.quote> It's a different world from then. The average American is not a construction worker anymore. It'd be better than nothing, but what would be better than sending everyone off to learn a new trade is to keep them in the one they already know. It's less productivity loss. Again, that falls in the "duh" category. But the sheer terror is less than it was before the FDIC was established. That gives people some security, and makes the run more organized.quote> I'm not aware of the existence of an organized bank run anywhere in the history of mankind. I'm not going to say it hasn't happened, but it is an oxymoron. The whole premise behind a bank run is irrational panic, and that's not going to be organized. I have gotten my terms right -- I was talking about either a short and deep downturn which capitulates in 3-5 years (i.e. a depression), or a long and shallow 15-year period where we never capitulate and muddle through the mess for a generation (i.e. a long recession). The common definition of a recession is two or more quarters of negative GDP growth. One of many definitions of a depression is a 10% decline in GDP.quote> According to that definition of a depression, it's only a matter of time before your hypothetical recession turns into an eventual depression. Not figuring in the fact that I am unaware of any recession in this country's recent history that last ten to fifteen years. Basically, it boils down to a matter of how do you like to reach economic failure - fast and hard or short and slow. Short and slow is a lot easier for most people to cope with. It is best to weed out the inefficient companies now, when they would naturally. If the inefficient companies go bankrupt during the recovery, the market will go down the drain again. Thus it stifles the recovery and future growth. It is best for the inefficient companies to go bankrupt when they are supposed to, so the economy and market can capitulate and get back on its feet again.quote> Again - exponential decay - the more that leave, the more and harder it hurts. I'll provide a couple of real life examples that took place within the last decade (I believe). Service Merchandise and Montgomery Ward were two well-known department stores in their prime. Over time they became inefficient, out of touch with their customer base, and were forced to close their doors. When both of them closed, their workers were screwed. The point though is that the market was able to move on easily because they closed separately and spaced out. Imagine what would happen if all of the mall anchor department stores closed all at once. The economy would be hurt A LOT harder. It can smooth things over if a store closes every so often. It can't do that if the industry just dies right then and there. I did not intend for the scenario to be all realistic. It is a hypothetical question. Also, you seem to be scared out of your wits at the prospect of a depression. Let me phrase my question another way -- would you prefer your recession to be short and deep or long and shallow?quote> Scared out of my wits at a depression? I espoused a complete crash of the credit industry. That's hardly a move that people scared of depressions would suggest. I'm pretty confident that we could find a sizeable chunk of people who would rather eat cow dung than go through that. As to how I would prefer my recession - how about option C - short and shallow. Before I go answering that, I'd like to see a case in the US's history where we had a long, shallow decline in GDP for something like ten years. Then I'll talk about which I'd rather have. Most people will be able to pay their debts as they come due, so they will not go bankrupt, so there will not be widespread riots.quote>quote> I beg to differ. Find an American under 35 with a mortgage on a house and I'll show you an American who probably can't pay their debts off immediately. A part of you wants to see that happen? It is the same thing the members of the US Congress have -- they are capitalists at their core, but they are too scared to let it work on the downside.quote> Small corrections aren't a bad thing - even if they take a few years. Those need to happen. It's steep ones that need to be watched like a hawk. You could be wrong. Who knows what venture capitalists may come out of the shadows? Or what upstart car maker may become the next world leader?quote> I could be wrong, but that's relying on data that doesn't exist. My statement is based off of past history, and the understanding of industrial start-up costs. It's a known fact among economists that the reason why the auto industry doesn't have any new, thriving upstarts in it is because of the sheer quantities of money that takes to do. Capitalism at its work. The most efficient companies dominate the market.quote> And pretty much guarantee there won't be upstarts. Oligarchies have a notorious habit of killing off any new industry entrants. It takes time. Just as efficient companies do not appear out of thin air, economic prosperity does not come out of thin air. Nothing in an economy pops out of thin air.quote> The question is - how long? There's not a fixed amount, but eventually you reach a point where if the economy doesn't rebound, it won't. Given that no one has any idea how long recessions will last at their immediate onslaught, which makes more sense - try to nip it in the bud or throw the dice down the table on a hope and a prayer that there will still be pieces to pick up when the dust settles. America's economy will eventually bounce back, but the laws of economics don't guarantee it and other countries have had it fail for good. Panic is a natural part of the stock market when there is a particularly vicious sell-off. The panic stops when the investors realize their panic was wrong.quote> Again, perception is more important than reality. As long as they feel there is a need to panic, they will regardless of whether or not they actually need to. This is not the same as the Great Depression. Still, the economy capitulated, and turned around, did it not?quote> At what cost? Many people were ruined. Any time for a recession is long enough, from an emotional standpoint.quote> Not true. Most people could deal with a pay cut for a few years a lot better than they could deal with no job for even a few months. Plus, when you nose-dive, it's harder to pull out. The US government has started a habit of bailouts.quote> Would you mind naming a few? I'd have an easier time believing this. Amtrak doesn't count though because that's the government feeling sorry for killing the railroad industry after WWII and they've been bailing them out for quite some time. Change can produce economic prosperity. It does not necessarily equal it, but it sometimes does.quote> Change can do all sorts of things. The only thing change equals is a different way of doing things. It's shooting blindly into the dark. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes you don't. Also, even you have to admit that 125 billion dollars is far less than the more than 2 trillion dollars spent solely on bailouts. Bailouts were a very secondary component of the New Deal. In contrast, the actions taken by Congress in 2009 were 100 percent bailouts.quote> Actually, when you figure in the difference in inflation between 125 billion in the Great Depression and inflation now, that 125 billion suddenly becomes about 2 trillion dollars.