Braxton

This game is looking really good. It's too bad EA has killed SimCity the way they have.

There's a lot of great ideas here and people say "What can they do to improve this game?" I think we've given ideas on how to improve it in this thread. One thing that REALLY needs to be addressed is the interface. Like it or not, this is the most important aspect of the game since it is the place where we do select and look at everything of importance. It needs to be streamlined, a lot. The buttons and scrolling in SC4 have to go and something new needs to be implemented so it is easier to move around and is easier for new comers. You can add more to the game and still make the game easy for new players and this is where it all begins. Most gamers probably have a 17"-19" monitor or even larger and it should be design so it stretches to fit the screen and to take advantage of that extra real estate, including the use of widescreen monitors.

Originally posted by: Sim_BOB WHY ARE WATER PIPES SUCH AN ISSUE?quote>I'm just as baffled about this as you are.

This was certainly a good interview. Some very good questions asked and I like the idea that we could see a SimCity 5 that is a true sequel to SC4.

From a business stand point, this makes SENSE and I actually do applaud EA for doing this (I don't like EA, but this is one of their smarter decisions I think). Everyone at EA will still be working together, this just streamlines a process that is bogged down by the 'efficiencies' of EA at the moment. Maybe this will bring about better games (don't hold your breath). Sports game are approved by the Sports division, makes perfect sense. SimCity 5 will probably come out of EA Games, if it ever comes. My guess is a competitor will come out with a game that would be the replacement for SC5 before EA comes out with one.

Originally posted by: spoty101 *sight* to say at least I am very dissapointed Well at least there a bright side to all this.....CITY UNLIMITED!!!!! YEAH MAN!!!!!I just hope they can hit the nail and not make it just like city life (referring to city unlimited)quote>There's no indication that Cities Unlimited will be the new SimCity with what is currently available via SC4. It looks to be a better game graphically, yes, but looks to be the same as SCS and its predecessor in terms of gameplay (social aspects still there, plopping, etc).

Just because Cities Unlimited looks better graphically doesn't mean it will have better gameplay. From what I gathered, it'll still have the same social elements and plopping of buildings (they didn't say there would be zoning or other things that have been a staple to SimCity for years). I'm not sold on this game nor on SCS.

That was years ago when they wanted to do more expansion packs. The Sims was gaining significant popularity at the time and so Maxis was most likely forced into making expansions for The Sims and had to leave Rush Hour as the only expansion pack for SC4. It's kind of late now to go back and make expansions for a game that has seen no support for years.

That was years ago when they wanted to do more expansion packs. The Sims was gaining significant popularity at the time and so Maxis was most likely forced into making expansions for The Sims and had to leave Rush Hour as the only expansion pack for SC4. It's kind of late now to go back and make expansions for a game that has seen no support for years.

With SimCity Societies announced, this game looks more appealing now. Should be interesting to see how it works on the DS.

With SimCity Societies announced, this game looks more appealing now. Should be interesting to see how it works on the DS.

Spinmaster, great post! You're correct in there are many things they can do to improve the game and make it easier for new players to get in to it. The biggest improvement for a true SC5 would be to get rid of that grid that's been used since the beginning of the franchise. A lot can be done with transit options, new and crazier interchanges can be made, and everything you said and more. With Dual/Quad Core CPUs, more intense things can be done by the computer to improve gameplay. Anyone that says there isn't anything they can do to improve on SC4 is crazy. There's plenty to do and always will be.

Spinmaster, great post! You're correct in there are many things they can do to improve the game and make it easier for new players to get in to it. The biggest improvement for a true SC5 would be to get rid of that grid that's been used since the beginning of the franchise. A lot can be done with transit options, new and crazier interchanges can be made, and everything you said and more. With Dual/Quad Core CPUs, more intense things can be done by the computer to improve gameplay. Anyone that says there isn't anything they can do to improve on SC4 is crazy. There's plenty to do and always will be.

It's too early to predict what the sales will be like. Most games don't reach 1 million copies sold anyway and the way your poll is setup doesn't seem very accurate anyway.

Originally posted by: His Divine HandActually, as I recall the sales numbers I've seen, the best selling Sim City was 3000, with 2000 being the next, 4 after that, and the Orginal being the lowest, the trend seeming to follow a parabolic arch, though we won't know that until Societies comes out . . . Well, that is what I recall, if I'm incorrect I hope someone will correct me.quote>I've never seen the numbers so thanks for posting that.

Originally posted by: deadwoods Wow, you folks here must have seen a ton more info than me on the new game given the researched opinions being given. I must have missed the live demo and leaked userguide. I'll wait till I've seen a bit more of the game to make judgement. Anyway, this post piqued my interest... Originally posted by: BraxtonThe 4 different versions of SimCity have sold over 17 million copies worldwide since it was first released in 1989. However, The Sims series of games has obviously sold more than that since it was first released like 5 years ago. Let's look at that number. Divide 17 million by 4 and you get 4.25 million per game. Now that number is not realistic since most of the time sequels lose customers because of a number of factors and SimCity is in that group since many consider SC4 to be 'too complex' or they'd rather just play SC3000. These are by no means accurate numbers, I'm just guessing a logical progression to try and total 17 million overall. SimCity - 5.5-6 million SimCity 2000 - 4-5.5 million SimCity 3000 - 3.5-4 million SimCity 4 - 3-3.5 million As you can see, it's entirely possible that SimCity has lost about 50% of its customer base since 1989. Not surprising, considering each version had more to do and eventually was 'too complex' for people. Another factor is that a lot of people that played the game back then no longer play games or would rather stick with an earlier version. Still, if SimCity 4 (SC4, Rush Hour, and Deluxe) sold 3 million copies (again, this is if my numbers are anywhere near accurate, they're probably not but I'm just trying to show a gradual decline), that's damn good. There are many game developers that would LOVE to see their game sell even 1 million copies. Most PC Games don't reach that point.quote> I love your approach; you made an assumption that the numbers weren't evenly distributed, rather that they went down over versions, then used this assumption as the basis of your argument that that the numbers had actually gone down. I'd love to see a lecturers response to a thesis using that approach. I think you'd find many people (like myself) came into the series later on (I started with SC4). A large portion of the ST userbase was in middle or high school when SC4 came out and would not have been in a position to play the game 14 years earlier.quote> Glad you liked my post. It would be easier if we had actual numbers for each version of SimCity. Typically, something is a big hit then the sequels never reach that point but still remain high. I just tried to look at it logically. Those of you that were in middle or high school probably also played SimCity 3000, maybe even SimCity 2000. That's why it would be nice to have actual numbers on how many were sold for each version of the game. For all we know, SimCity 2000 could have sold the most copies worldwide.

Originally posted by: LeonardoDV So why is it that you feel you can speak for the millions of other SimCity players who have never visited this site...?quote> Why is it that public opinion polls can speak for everyone (we're talking 100 million people here) when the sampling of people is under 10,000? Why is it that certain groups/people think they can speak for millions of people?

Originally posted by: T Wrecks Originally posted by: Braxton Simtropolis is not the whole of the SimCity community, it's the largets, but not the entire online community.quote> Let me tell you that the reactions among the German Simforum.de community have been 100% negative so far. I haven't seen a single positive comment. I just browsed through the corresponding thread on Germany's other SimCity community at insims.de and found reactions to be 99.5% negative (a mixture of rejection, anger and sarcasm) and 0.5% "It's not finished yet, maybe it will get better".quote> Doesn't surprise me that is what is happening. Screw your fanbase that got you where you are and this is to be expected.

Originally posted by: Gman55 After reading EA's painfully cheesy press release (even by press release standards), with its unnecessary exclamation points and talk of gingerbread houses, I realized SCS is simply not for long-time SimCity fans. No zoning, no powerplants, no water pipes, and a focus on social elements and light-hearted fluff -- stuff The Sims demographic would totally go for. And I don't mean this in a bad way (I play The Sims too). Business wise, it's actually a smart move. Shareholders would go ga-ga if even a fraction of the millions of Sims fans bought SCS. And how do they lure them in? By focusing on social elements and chocolate factories and removing real real city management (at least the kind we're used to). The fact that the press release emphasized such things shows who EA is appealing to. SC4 has 100,000 registered members. Even if all 100,000 of those were active, this pales in comparison to the Sims fanbase. I honestly don't think we matter to EA's business strategy. Besides, I think ST may be a victim of its own success: EA sees how industrious the SimCity community is, throws us a new editor with SCS, and says, "Here, make the game how you want it." It's actually a brilliant move...and yes, I am cynical enough to believe this. My question, then, is this: do you think EA is just writing the established SimCity fanbase out of the equation? Or am I being too negative in my analysis?quote> Simtropolis is not the whole of the SimCity community, it's the largets, but not the entire online community. The 4 different versions of SimCity have sold over 17 million copies worldwide since it was first released in 1989. However, The Sims series of games has obviously sold more than that since it was first released like 5 years ago. Let's look at that number. Divide 17 million by 4 and you get 4.25 million per game. Now that number is not realistic since most of the time sequels lose customers because of a number of factors and SimCity is in that group since many consider SC4 to be 'too complex' or they'd rather just play SC3000. These are by no means accurate numbers, I'm just guessing a logical progression to try and total 17 million overall. SimCity - 5.5-6 million SimCity 2000 - 4-5.5 million SimCity 3000 - 3.5-4 million SimCity 4 - 3-3.5 million As you can see, it's entirely possible that SimCity has lost about 50% of its customer base since 1989. Not surprising, considering each version had more to do and eventually was 'too complex' for people. Another factor is that a lot of people that played the game back then no longer play games or would rather stick with an earlier version. Still, if SimCity 4 (SC4, Rush Hour, and Deluxe) sold 3 million copies (again, this is if my numbers are anywhere near accurate, they're probably not but I'm just trying to show a gradual decline), that's damn good. There are many game developers that would LOVE to see their game sell even 1 million copies. Most PC Games don't reach that point.

This should be called The Sims Society or Sims Civilization or something like that. This is obviously not being targeted to us long time fans. There are times I wish gaming wasn't becoming so 'mainstream'.

Originally posted by: ccecill Well guys, the game can change alot over time. SCS might be a completely different game when it comes out. Look at one of the first SC4 screenshots. quote> I went to Gamespot and looked at the early SC4 screens. There are others there that are more detailed than this one that were added the same day as this one. One to thing to remember is that this screen was posted on Apr 29, 2002. That's about 8-9 months before the actual release of the game. As we can see, the game was known about at least a year before the release so the game was already in development for a while by the time this screen was released. The screens we're seeing for SCS have just been posted for the first time, along with actual news of the game, 6-7 months before the game is to be released. When you look at those other screens you can see more detail was added but everything was pretty much the same and set by this point.

Maxis is currently busy with The Sims and Spore, that is why Tilted Mill is making SCS.

Originally posted by: aking88 Yeah lets see if they have something to tell the press on E3.quote>Unless E3 has changed its date, I don't think that'll happen since this game is coming out in time for the holiday season this year. Unless that was a big typo that has yet to be corrected.

Originally posted by: MrCinatit Originally posted by: Braxton How is there 'openness early' here? This game has about 6 months before release, and most games are usually announced a year or two before it is actually released.quote> I have seen two people from Tilted Mill here - I am not sure about you, but I have never seen team members from a gaming company visit a fan site and post, as well as participate in multiple chats. Those who demand to know of the nuts and bolts of the entire game are forgetting, we knew very little about SimCity 4 before it came out. A company is unable to give out all information of the game, not only because some things might change in the game before it is released, but they do not want the competition to obtain trade secrets. I've been very impressed by the visits by Tilted Mill members - because, after all, even though this is the largest fan site - this is still a fan site, and showing willingness to participate in such is not only impressive, but commendable. quote> As a matter of fact, yes, I have seen people from companies get involved with fan sites, more so than what I have seen here. Yes, it's early since it was just announced, but this game has been in development for at least a year already. And how are they 'listening'? There have been topics for years on what Sim City 5 would be like and what we wanted it to be and they never once 'listened' to those suggestions. How come people think they're going to listen now? They may be able to add some of the suggestions in to this game but many will not be added simply because of the direction they're going in.quote> How do we know they are not listening? I have seen David react to a couple of posts not only with his own posts, but in chat. In addition, we should not get grand notions that we are the only audience for the game. While 170,000 registered users is impressive, if the game were to satisfy only the users here, that would equal very poor sales. There are many out there who have, in fact, complained that the game was too complex - and did not stick around for nearly as long as we did to give it a chance. There were many more who simply did not buy it because they heard the game was so challenging. Yes, the game is easy for myself and many others here - but are those of us who have stuck around for four years common gammers, or die-hards? While it would be nice to have a game which would be perfect for us die-hards, the very end product of EA's existence is to make money - a challenging game which no one wants to play will not make money. Unfortunately, this is a cold-hard fact. However, I do also believe they are listening to us die hard gamers, as well. And, as you have said, some ideas might not be incorporated yet - but who is to say they will not be in the future? After all, last week, I did not know the game even existed. Surely it is too early to say they are not listening.quote> I do not understand the whole 'too complex' thing. Once you learn how to play the game it's fun. Sim City 4 is relatively easy compared to other games, like Galactic Civilizations II for instance (lots of micromanagement). I will say that it was a shock at first but I came online to find out what I was doing wrong. I was doing little things wrong. We got used to plopping down schools and hospitals and police stations that when the funding element was added to them in SC4 it took us by surprise. You had to learn to play, that's what you do in all games, learn to play it. If you throw own $50 on a game I would think you'd want to stick with it and learn how to play. I'm sure there is a lot that could have been done to make it easier for new players from the get go. On a long term basis, Sim City 4 will still have a vibrant community until a true Sim City game is released. Who knows how long that will be.quote> I agree. I fully intend on buying SimCity Societies - and I hope it will be a very enjoyable game. However, at the same time, it sounds quite different from SimCity 4. Who is to say I will have to chose between one or the other? If they in fact turn out to be two totally different games, then who is to say I will not be able to play both with equal enjoyment?quote> quote>

Originally posted by: JanYpe There's openness because the developers are willing to take an active interest in the community. Of course they didn't follow these lists to the letter. Have you read some of these lists? At least 60% is completely unfeasible, and the rest is usually a mishmash of different ideas and directions people would like to see implemented. If you'd try to follow every fan list as well as publishers instructions your head would start spinning due to the contradictions between them all. The game would never leave development limbo. Originally posted by: Gman55 The worst case scenario is that SCS bombs and EA releases a "true" SimCity 5.quote> That's the best case scenario.quote> Seriously guys, stop acting dense. Publishers very very very rarely value the opinion of fans higher than the opinion of the market. There's a certain point at which a franchise completely loses its viability. If SCS eats it, the chances for another SC game are not going to increase.quote> There's not much they can do with 6 months left of development though. They'll only be able to add little things but nothing huge.