EuroStoplightsMOD

[MayorBean 8]

Since the ingame stoplights on road intersections are not very common to me I started to alter the relevant type 21 exemplars.


Preview -- Road_IntersectionStr_Stoplight11

Some questions before going to all those 45 exemplars I've found:

1. Does something like this already exist? I haven't found anything on the STEX or in the forums.

2. Does anybody know about changes to the road intersection exemplars from SC4 to RH? I don't have RH installed yet.

3. I noticed that stoplights at diagonal intersection aren't animated (stoplights showing up green lights for every direction). Since the automata acts as if those stoplights are working, this is only a visual issue. Are there any fixes for this? Does it appear in RH, too?

4. I'd like to know about the look/position of stoplights in European countries. If I remember correctly, the position as shown in the above preview can be found in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands,(...?...). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks in advance

~bean~

[Andreas Roth 629]

Yay, I've been waiting ages for such a mod! I'm not aware of anything similar that already exist, and I've been here since a very long time. Unfortunately, I can't help you technical-wise, but I suggest asking swamper77, smoncrie or ardecila, since they seem to have some knowledge in this kind of matter. I'd be glad if this would also work with Rush Hour installed.

[Ryan B 35]

Oh, my GOSH!!!!  That looks SWEET!  That looks almost exactly like traffic signals in Los Angeles!

The only thing I would change (if you're going to keep w/ the LA style) is (if possible) move the green street name sign all the way to the right, where the mast arm meets the pole.

You've got something really good going here.  Keep it up!

And, since you were asking:  road to road intersections and road to one-way road intersections do not involve the mast arm setup - they're just on a single pole.  However, the avenue intersections (ave. x ave, ave x road, ave x one way road) have the mast arm setup with the street name sign in between two signals.  I'll get some pics for you.

[MayorBean 8]

I've attached the above example. Just try it out.
It won't change any existing intersection. Also, if you have a MOD installed which alters the type21 exemplar 0x0A0CA85A too, the game chooses randomly between them.

~bean~

Edit:
@ryanb_sc4:
Sorry, but this green street sign is part of the pole. I'd really like to remove it, but it's impossible to me.
Also I've already noticed those single poles in some CJs. But they seem to be new with RH. If you could provide the IID of the single pole I'll look if there is something in SC4 PRE RH.

[newyorkrunaway1 110]

Date: 1/26/2005 10:41:43 AM
Author: ryanb_sc4
Oh, my GOSH!!!!  That looks SWEET!  That looks almost exactly like traffic signals in Los Angeles!

The only thing I would change (if you're going to keep w/ the LA style) is (if possible) move the green street name sign all the way to the right, where the mast arm meets the pole.

You've got something really good going here.  Keep it up!

And, since you were asking:  road to road intersections and road to one-way road intersections do not involve the mast arm setup - they're just on a single pole.  However, the avenue intersections (ave. x ave, ave x road, ave x one way road) have the mast arm setup with the street name sign in between two signals.  I'll get some pics for you.

^^^^^^^^
thats not LA style if you read. It Euro. But it does look like the LA style street lights in some parts of town, those cities names don't come out of my mouth though. Keep up the good work MayorBean

[MayorBean 8]

Date: 1/26/2005 11:23:43 AM
Author: newyorkrunaway1

thats not LA style if you read. It Euro. But it does look like the LA style street lights in some parts of town, those cities names don't come out of my mouth though. Keep up the good work MayorBean

quote>

Ok, I should call it Euro_LA_Stoplights from now on!? *lol*

[Mexicanboy13r 12]

hello since you know how to moce the lights? I was wondering if you could make the aves. street lights across the street instead of right in front.. In the US it seems much better .. Just wondering If you had the time.. you do not need to tho.. Here is an example,

[Andreas Roth 629]

Guys, please read carefully what MayorBean posted - he does not own Rush Hour, so he won't be able to mod the avenue traffic lights. And I case you don't know: The screenshot he posted shows how all traffic lights looked before Rush Hour came out. With the add-on, they changed the normal ones to the single pole (which don't cast any shadows, to my surprise - kinda screwed up, if you ask me ), and the avenue ones seem to be modifications from the original ones. Even more surprising: They moved the avenue traffic lights to the position in front of the intersection - that's the way it is done in Europe - but didn't touch road traffic lights apart from the look. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with type 21 exemplar modding, but I will look at the file and see if it still works in my Rush Hour.

EDIT: Good news: Your mod seems to work in Rush Hour, too!

align=baseline>

[MayorBean 8]

@Mexicanboy13r:
This could be done, too. But, as I posted above, I haven't RH yet (I'm already waiting for delivery since 8 weeks...).

Also I don't want to touch those avenue intersections yet since The7Trumpets et al are working on avenue turning lanes. When this will be out (and I get my copy of RH some day) I probably take a look at it.

@Andreas:
Is the upper intersection depicted in your image a result of my MOD example? I miss the second stoplight. Could you take another snapshot of the upper intersection WITHOUT my MOD installed?

~bean~

[Cjah 15]

Mexicanboy13r is right we need more room for those lights....

There very odd looking.In the L.A. area the lights are the way Mexicanboy13r said.

Also I think they look like L.A. not Europe sorry to say and hopefully you will get RH soon.

Good luck!

[Mexicanboy13r 12]

Opps! sorry about that.. I read it too fast...

[Andreas Roth 629]

Date: 1/26/2005 11:15:45 PM
Author: MayorBean

@Andreas:
Is the upper intersection depicted in your image a result of my MOD example? I miss the second stoplight. Could you take another snapshot of the upper intersection WITHOUT my MOD installed?

~bean~

Yes, the upper intersection is the result of your mod - I put the other in there for reference. And as I said before, in Rush Hour, they changed the model for the road traffic light - there isn't a second stoplight anymore, but merely a small pole with only one stoplight. Only avenues have those large stoplights (the ones you can see in Mexicanboy's screenshot). Unfortunately I don't know anything about the network exemplars, so I can't tell you if there has something else changed (apart from the model). I located this exemplar file in the RH DATs and attached a copy, so you can compare them. If you are willing to give me a short crash course how to modify the position of the traffic lights, I could try to retrace your steps with SC4 RH. I'm quite experienced with modding in general, so you don't have to start with the very basics, though.

[MayorBean 8]

Hi Andreas - and Good Morning as well!

1st, your link seems to be broken. Please edit your post. Maybe you have to upload the file again.

I'm surprised by the behaviour of the MOD within RH. Originally the stoplights inSC4PreRH have only one light on the top of the mast arm. I added the second one (on the pole) with this MOD. So it's rather interesting that there only one light shows up in RH!?

The modding itself is quite easy. All you need is iLive's reader or DM's DatGen. As you can see, there are several props in this exemplar. I've grouped them by orientation (the 3rd rep of each LotConfigLotProperty). The first per orientation is the pole/mast arm. The second and third are the stoplights itself. So you get 12 LotConfigLotProperty properties (whooo).
I only altered the orientation/position of each prop (rep4-rep6) and left the coordinates for the bounding box (you can't edit network LOTs with the LET either).
The last rep of each prop is the IID of the prop exemplar itself.

I think the LotConfigLotProperty properties are reusable. I have to go to all road intersection exemplars I found (again: SC4PreRH!, see attached file below), remove all existing stoplight props and copy/paste the ones from the example. Finally reindex LotConfigLotProperty. Thats all. BTW for some intersections (IE T-intersections) one triple set has to be removed.

~bean~


Edit: All attachment links seem to be broken. Even the first example. I'm pretty sure that at least this one was working properly yesterday. So obviously have to wait until this problem is fixed....

[jacqulina 162]

this is very good just what we need

[Andreas Roth 629]

Thanks for the explanation, I will try that. I don't know why your mod works in RH, too - and maybe there are some quirks left, I'll need to test it in an existing city. BTW, the attachments seem to work again, I was able to download mine and yours, too.

[MayorBean 8]

I just took a look at the RH exemplar. There seem to be some (major) changes from SC4 to RH:
since there are separate props for the pole AND the stoplights (SC4preRH), the RH exemplar contains ONLY pole props.

I'd like to know if you have an S3D group (IID 0x28f50000 - 0x28f50430). This should be the pole model. What does it look like (single pole or pole/mast arm)?

Also do you have Exemplar/FSH/ATC/AVP files each with an IID 0x67cc0000? The FSH should show the stoplight frameset.

Last I'm really interested in the 'Occupant Groups' property value in the 0x28f50000 and 0x67cc0000 Exemplar files.

Thanks

~bean~

[Swamper77 90]

Date: 1/27/2005 10:21:47 AM
Author: MayorBean
I just took a look at the RH exemplar. There seem to be some (major) changes from SC4 to RH:
since there are separate props for the pole AND the stoplights (SC4preRH), the RH exemplar contains ONLY pole props.

I'd like to know if you have an S3D group (IID 0x28f50000 - 0x28f50430). This should be the pole model. What does it look like (single pole or pole/mast arm)?

Also do you have  Exemplar/FSH/ATC/AVP files each with an IID 0x67cc0000? The FSH should show the stoplight frameset.

Last I'm really interested in the 'Occupant Groups' property value in the 0x28f50000 and 0x67cc0000 Exemplar files.

Thanks

~bean~

Mayor Bean, 28f50### model numbers are the single pole for Rush Hour, but in SC4 without RH, they are the for the pole & mast. In Rush Hour, MAXIS removed the FSH/ATC/AVP files and assigned the model ID 0x00000000 to the single stoplight model. Do you only have SimCity 4 without Rush Hour?

@Andreas: The reason you don't see the other stoplight is because of the above that have mentioned to Mayor Bean. I have a .dat file on computer that has the Exemplar/FSH/ATC/AVP files for the single stoplights that I copied from the original SimCity 4 without Rush Hour. And yes, the lights do work. If need be, I could attach the zip here in this thread later.... I'm at college at the moment (9:30 am PST).

-Swamper77

[MayorBean 8]

@Swamper77:
I haven't got it yet. What do you mean with 'single stop light'?
Only the light prop or a RH like single pole (which I haven't ever noticed in SC4preRH so far).

Please attach your file so I can take a look.

And yes, I don't have RH already. It seems to be out of stock everywhere.

This seems to become rather challenging - modding without having the right resources *eek*. So here we go... (meanwhile I'll try to figure out how the signals are triggered and refine my pedestrian lights)

~bean~

[Andreas Roth 629]

I just had a look and it seems there were some mayor changes indeed. IID 0x2850000 is a ACT file that contains the pole incl. stoplight animation. As you can see, an AVP and an Exemplar file are associated. Here's a screenshot:



IID 67cc0000 is an exemplar file for a traffic light prop, but it seems to be redundant (and abandoned?). It's called AStreet1x1x11_Oldconsoleremoved_67cc and looks nearly the same like the IID 0x28F5000 exemplar, but the Resource Key Types have IIDs with zeros. The occupant group reads Prop: Stoplight (0x00005002) in both exemplars.

EDIT: Oh well, Swamper77 was faster. But at least I'm starting to learn how type 21 exemplars and the like are working...

[Swamper77 90]

Date: 1/27/2005 12:52:48 PM
Author: MayorBean
@Swamper77:
I haven't got it yet. What do you mean with 'single stop light'?
Only the light prop or a RH like single pole (which I haven't ever noticed in SC4preRH so far).

Please attach your file so I can take a look.

And yes, I don't have RH already. It seems to be out of stock everywhere.

This seems to become rather challenging - modding without having the right resources *eek*. So here we go... (meanwhile I'll try to figure out how the signals are triggered and refine my pedestrian lights)

~bean~

Mayor Bean, what I mean by single stoplight is the prop you have in SC4 without RH. In otherwords the light prop, not the pole. I'll attach it once I get home, which will be about 4:00-4:30 pm PST.... The file I have has the stoplight prop you currently have and it's associated files. I was planning to attach it only for those who downloaded your mod, like Andreas, so they can see the other stoplight. However, the other stoplight will be floating above the road because of the changes made between SC4 and RH.

-Swamper77

[Andreas Roth 629]

I extracted the files I mentioned above and attached them here.

[MayorBean 8]

Funny, just as I supposed.

Does the RH avenue stoplight (the mast arm model) behave the same (combined stoplight/support animation)?

BTW has anybody heard of smoncrie? He last posted in December...

~bean~

Edit:
Just to be sure and to avoid some accidently replacing: There aren't any FSH/AVP/ATC files in RH with IID 67cc? Only the 'abandoned' Exemplar file?

[Andreas Roth 629]

Yes, there's ony the exemplar file (or, actually, two, named AStreet[...]_67CD and [...]67CC).

The avenue traffic lights are separated, though. There are several exemplars/AVP/ACT with the animation of the stoplights only and S3D files with the mast/arm.

I guess that also solves the mystery with the mission shadow of the road traffic light poles - since there is no 3d model, but rather an animated prop only, there isn't anything tha could cast a shadow...

[MayorBean 8]

Alright. For whatever reason Maxis has changed this. Only to reduce the number of props per tile / performance?

So, what do you like better for road/road intersections. The single pole ore the mast arm? I really prefer the mast arm variant. The single pole looks like a pedestrian crossing stoplight to me or maybe is appropiate for road/street intersections.

Andreas, could you provide the IID of the mast arm S3D? There should be to clusters. Take a look at the stoplight exemplar. You should see a ResourceKey1 and a ResourceKey1xm property. The last rep gives you the IID.

~bean~

[Swamper77 90]

Date: 1/27/2005 1:56:33 PM
Author: MayorBean
Alright. For whatever reason Maxis has changed this. Only to reduce the number of props per tile / performance?

So, what do you like better for road/road intersections. The single pole ore the mast arm? I really prefer the mast arm variant. The single pole looks like a pedestrian crossing stoplight to me or maybe is appropiate for road/street intersections.

Andreas, could you provide the IID of the mast arm S3D? There should be to clusters. Take a look at the stoplight exemplar. You should see a ResourceKey1 and a ResourceKey1xm property. The last rep gives you the IID.

~bean~

Mayor Bean, I tried to use the stoplight pole/mast assembly from RH with the intersections for roads from SC4 once. The green street sign is in a different spot than the one from SC4. I'm going try to import the pole/mast assembly into RH. I'll probably have to renumber some textures/models, but I 'll get together tomorrow before I post my attachment so I can include it as well. The ResourceKey1xm references a model for when the prop is flipped. The stop sign and crossing gates seem to support this theory... I have looked at the wire frame view of the stoplight pole/mast assemblies in past, and the pole and mast are together one model.

-Swamper77

[Andreas Roth 629]

Ok, here's a summary of the IIDs of the avenue stoplights:

stoplight props orthogonal: 0x2ca0000
stoplight props diagonal: 0x2c3c0000

pole orthogonal:  0x2c410000 (exemplar file; S3Ds with subsequent IIDs 0x2c410000 to 0x2c420430)
pole diagonal: 0x2c3f0000 (subsequent S3D IIDs 0x2c3f0000 to 0x2c400430)

Personally, I'd prefer the new small poles, although they look a bit unrealistic and rushed, I didn't really like those large stoplights - when trying to make roundabouts with roads, it looks really ugly with the old models (and since we can't do good-looking roundabouts as for now, I prefer making them with roads rather than one-way roads). Here's a pic that shows what I'm talking about:

[MayorBean 8]

Swamper77, there is no need to hurry.
Concerning the 1xm property: I'll try to change the references (for a UK version) so that the light unit directs to the roadside and not to the sidewalk.

[MayorBean 8]

INVITATION
=========
Since there are at least 3 active 'EuropeanRoadNetwork' threads I'd like to invite everybody who's interested to participate in a discussion (thread or chat) about setting up this as ONE project.

Why?
1st: I believe that especially the redesign of the road/street textures could be organized very efficient (making a variation of several road/street FSHs should be much less time consuming, if each tile has to be touched only once)
2nd: A discussion based on the opinion of many Simtropolitans is supposed to build up compromises. Not anything can be individual.
3rd: A coordinated project would minimize compatibility issues and could easiely/easylie/easyly (heck, how is this spelled ?) gather (bring together) a huge amount of knowlege and experience.

So, if YOU are interested, I suggest that we either meet in a chat room (which has to be created by a skilled Simtropolitan - I've never done something like this) or I will create an appropiate thread.
Please PM your opinion to MayorBean.

@Moderators/Admins: I crossposted this in the UK road textures, Zebra crossing and EuroStoplights threads. I'm aware that this is against the forum rule, but I hope you recognize what I'm aiming at. So don't delete this postings, please.

Sincerely

~bean~

Edit: revoked due lack of interest.

[MayorBean 8]

Here you get an attemp for UK road stoplights [RH] (see attached file). I'd really like someone to try this out and repost a screenshot (if it's working).
IMPORTANT NOTES:
=> If you have already installed the example attached to my second post, you MUST remove it first.
=> This .dat file alters only the intersection depicted in the image on the top of this page (it's a proof of concept yet).
=> I strongly recommend to backup your city first. I don't know if it works. Maybe someone could test this with/without NAM.

Edit:
NDP, thanks for testing this out.
It seems I've choosen the wrong backwards images. There is no further need of testing the attached file - it shows up wrong.
I'll wait until I've got RH before doing any additional changes.

[Swamper77 90]

Date: 1/27/2005 3:15:26 PM
Author: MayorBean
Swamper77, there is no need to hurry.
Concerning the 1xm property: I'll try to change the references (for a UK version) so that the light unit directs to the roadside and not to the sidewalk.

Mayor Bean, I took a look at the models referenced by the 1xm property. The models are indeed mirrored versions of the normal prop. The mirrored props apparently are only called when the intersection tile is flipped (mirrored). This is why some of the stop light poles look odd some intersections in the game.

-Swamper77