The use of terrain modifications on maps

[delboysim 1]

There has been some controversy of late regarding the use of terrain height modifications when rendering maps downloaded from the STEX.

As the two most prolific map makers in recent months, myself and Blade2k5 have conducted some reasearch, designing maps with and without terrain mods. We both agree that it is perfectly viable to create a nice looking, realistic, playable map WITHOUT the use of terrain mods - take a look at Blades recent maps !

 

The major problem pertaining to the use of these mods, is the fact that once installed they alter the height of EVERY map thats loaded into the game, and will OBLITERATE any previously built on region made with a normal map, and if a user downloads a NORMAL map whilst having the mod installed it will NOT RENDER CORRECTLY. This is causing anger and frustration to many many users who quite frankly want to sit back, relax, download a nice looking map, render it, and play it. They do not WANT to go through a tedious procedure of having to install a mod to play a MINORITY of maps and then have to remove the mod to play the MAJORITY of maps on the STEX, or indeed the maps that come with the game.

 

I am well aware that there is a program available that allows the user to select which mods, bats, lots, textures, etc are loaded with each region played. This prog is GOOD but requires more than a modicum of knowledge in how folders are organised on the PC.

There are of course many people on this site, who are in fact computer geniuses. But there are THOUSANDS who are not, who just wanna play the game as easily and as relaxing as possible, without having to sit down and THINK uneccessarily.

 

I applaud in the strongest possible terms the exceptionally talented, small group of people on this site for thier dedication and skill in making the most amazing additions to this excellent game. But I would say to all of them - PLEASE just keep it as simple as possible, and bear in mind that the overwhelming majority of people on this site are NOT computer geniuses.

[blade2k5 1,523]

I for one prefer the height mod when I render maps that require one for the simple fact that you get much more realistic looking mountains than you do without a height mod. Most map makers I've downloaded from all state in their description/details boxes whether you need a height mod or any other info that may be needed to render the map properly. I, for one will take the 10 seconds to read what the map-maker posted in his description/details box. Map- makers can't do much more than that, except when an indivdual who is not savy on mods, maps and such, needs some help getting started and we try to give that help as best we can with what knowledge we have on the subject. In fact, I'm still in the learning process of map making and see it as a continuous learning process, as is life.

As far as removing a mod from my plugins folder to render a 'normal' map, I simply made a new folder called Misc in my SC4 folder [C:\Documents and Settings\myname\My Documents\SimCity 4\Misc], simply cut the height mod from the plugins and dump it in there until I need it again. Takes few seconds, not a lot of my time wasted [and I learned the hard way too.


Another thing that dbs has mentioned several times is playing a normal map while the mod is installed. I've never removed the mod when playing a 'normal' built up region [one I terraformed when I first played the game], and have never had happen to me as what he describes happened to him. So, that either means that happens to some pcs and not others, or there is something seriously wrong with my pc, which wouldn't surprise me at all.

As a final note, I really don't see this as a 'controversy' simply because it's the responsibility of those who download files to read the text in the details box. I lived and learned by trial and error and asked questions when needed, though not always in the right forum.

[vil 3]

Sure but...

The game has severe limitations in many areas that require troublesome workarounds in order for content to be added satisfactorily.

 

If you want a region with tall mountains what can you do? Is there an easy way?

 

Also if you want trees, trams, roundabouts, european cars and road textures etc. - you just have to learn to operate your computer and that will give you freedom of choice.

 

PS. it would be easier if the game creators had had custom content in mind instead of in their mouths...

 

 

[MallowTheCloud 41]

Date: 1/20/2006 1:01:31 PM
Author: blade2k5
Another thing that dbs has mentioned several times is playing a normal map while the mod is installed. I've never removed the mod when playing a 'normal' built up region [one I terraformed when I first played the game], and have never had happen to me as what he describes happened to him. So, that either means that happens to some pcs and not others, or there is something seriously wrong with my pc, which wouldn't surprise me at all.

quote>

Nope, your computer is working just fine. The mods should NOT be causing that problem. They simply change import specifications (rendering maps), nothing more. If you load a map and something causes all your cities to be demolished, it is most likely NOT the terrain height mods.

It is perfectly logical and a bit easier just to create maps with no mods. HOWEVER, for real terrains, if I need an elevation above 500 meters (which is not very high), I have no choice but to use a mod. I try to keep things as consistant as possible by using the 1000 meter mod as much as possible, so folks downloading my maps can usually just keep the 1000m.dat mod in their plugins folder when rendering most of my maps.

[delboysim 1]

It wasnt actually me that had the problem with terrain mods demolishing cities - but the several users that have pm'd me with the problem.

Of course I agree with both Blade and Mallow, that its essential for the downloader to READ what is in the description box - and this applies to ALL downloads, not just maps.

 

Again, I agree with Mallow that the game restricts elevations to 500M - so the terrain mod he uses does indeed allow elevations above that height, and it IS fair to say that the mountains are then more realistic.

 

The point I am making is that many users do not realise that once installed MOST terrain mods then affect ALL regions - and this has led to frustration and anger by many users. I am pm'd regularly, and there is post after post after post on the forums about this very problem.

 

Finally - I hold both Blade2k5 and Mallow the Cloud in high esteem as mapmakers - and I am sure that Mallow will verify that on a pm I told him that it was HIS maps that inspired me to start making them myself. I therefore am in no way suggesting that either Mallow or Blade are doing anything wrong - simply stating that it is a problem that needs to be addressed and that the problem does indeed more often than not lie in the fact that users do not READ the descriptions properly, and do not all UNDERSTAND the function of a terrain mod.

[MallowTheCloud 41]

delboysim:

I understand completely. I really should make it more clear in my descriptions to take the mod out when uploading a new map, and maybe also why I am using the mod in the first place. Might that quell some confusion?

[delboysim 1]

With the utmost respect Mallow

 

Yes it hopefully would avoid some confusion and frustration amongst SOME users

 

Thankyou Mallow for your patience, skill, and understanding

[MallowTheCloud 41]

No problem.

And just as an aside... I thought maybe you'd like to create a thread in the Mapping Community Board Room detailing all the maps you have done, just like some other mappers have done. You have quite the list of maps, so that's a good start.

[blade2k5 1,523]

Date: 1/20/2006 8:06:13 PM
Author: MallowTheCloud
No problem.


And just as an aside... I thought maybe you'd like to create a thread in the Mapping Community Board Room detailing all the maps you have done, just like some other mappers have done. You have quite the list of maps, so that's a good start.

quote>

I wouldn't mind doing that myself on the MCB. Maybe I'll start one of my own, though it's posting pics I can't do at the moment. Without pics, it kinda makes the explanation seem like a foreign language

I as well hold you, Mallow, as my inspiration to give map-making a try. It was your maps I learned how to render maps [using/not using mods].

As for you dbs, you came out of nowhere and suddenly your rolling maps off the assembly line like somethings chasin' ya It's nice to know that someone outside my family thinks I have good map-making skills. Thanks dbs.

[delboysim 1]

roflmao - I KNEW this was gonna happen

The Delboy Bladeyboy Mallyboy appreciation club hehehehehehhe

 

Hey c'mon guys they can rant and say what the hell they like - but us 3 are THE mapmakers on ST

 

We each have our own individual styles - we each have our fanbase and yes - we each have our critics - but I think we have proven to the community that WE can act like decent human beings and CONSULT each other to improve what is becomming a rapidly expanding market - I have monitored all our downloads and they are ALL on the up and up and up - the onus therefore is upon US guys to give whatever help we can to any new player (hate the word NEWBIE) that may be having probs

 

 Mallow - your idea about a forum and showcase is a good idea - but I am already editor of a custom mapping Forum on PEGASUS PRODUCTIONS (as per my sig)

[MallowTheCloud 41]

I see, delboysim. I guess I missed that.

Blade, you are free.... nay encouraged to create a thread for your maps.

[JustinHayward 10]

Comments deleted. Please keep this thread on topic instead of discussing personalities. Thanks.
-MtC

Edit by myself - sincere apologies Mallow, your personal message was both understanding, and professional. You are a credit to your status of Moderator, and deserved of your respect as a map maker.

[RiverCocytus 0]

The best solution I think, is to create maps of both types. Some people don't want to bother with height mods, others don't care.

If you are creating mountainous areas, the regular height limitations are too severe, and do not result in terrain that is even in the least bit realistic.

For rendering a lot of things, you can go with the regular height levels and you will be fine. As long as the mapper tells downloaders that the mod is required, all should be well.

I've noticed that maps requiring mods are less popular, usually... which would indicate a group of folks who don't want to use height/terrain mods.