taxes and farming

[patcherke 0]

Is there a difference in the demand for agriculture if I size big zones instead of small?

 

I mean :

If I zone a 4x4 zone of agricultural, then there comes 1 business which provides 2 jobs.

 

If I zone for example a 6x6 zone, then it is exactly the same : 1 business with 2 jobs.

 

 

It sounds logical that zoning 1 4x4 zone agricultural at a time is better than zoning larger areas.

There are more jobs per square mile in 4x4 zones then in 6x6 zones.

 

Am I right that demand for agricultural zones is the same as the need for jobs in those zones?

or is demand calculated only by the number of squares zoned?

 

and what about taxes then? Are they calculated by number of squares zoned (and ocupied of course) or by number of businesses in that zone,

or by the number of workers working there??

 

I mean :

I get more taxes from an 5x4 zone of medium industry (rated at 9pct) and also a lot more jobs for an area that is sooooo much smaller than my agricultural zones.

 

a comparison:

5x4 medium (9pct) > 13 4x4 zones agriculture (15pct)

 

So is there any reason (except pollution) for not taxing agriculture way up to 20 percent or higher, so that the polluting industry is favoured above the agriculture??

 

 

So whats the use for farms, except the filling up of space??

 

[vidioman 21]

Am I right that demand for agricultural zones is the same as the need for jobs in those zones?
or is demand calculated only by the number of squares zoned?

From what I've noticed, demand isn't related to the siez of the zones, I often make 4x4-10x10 farm zones to save space myself. The demand is more on how many roads there are how much traffic is on them, what the air pollution is like, etc. But not the size of farms, as far as I can tell. Try to keep them away from other built up stuff, and they'll grow pretty nicely.

and what about taxes then? Are they calculated by number of squares zoned (and ocupied of course) or by number of businesses in that zone,
or by the number of workers working there??

Taxes are figured out however the game figures out. Again, as far as I can tell, size of the zone doesnt seem to matter, as long as the main lot is there and it has workers, it appears to be the same, though I've never really looked into it, so I don't know for sure.

So is there any reason (except pollution) for not taxing agriculture way up to 20 percent or higher, so that the polluting industry is favoured above the agriculture??

Demand is also effected by tax, and farms are kinda fickle when it comes to tax. I've never noticed a farm leave and become empty space again, or be abandoned, but if taxes are too high, a farm won't appear. I'd suggest placing all the farm zones you want, waiting until the develop then raising taxes, it'll get you money and help lower farm demand, but it'll also lower your mayor rating.

So whats the use for farms, except the filling up of space??

Realism, I think. To clear up the nothingness of open areas, and make small towns and hamlets seem more real.

There are several mods that involve farms from the mod section, including a mod that triples, quadruples, etc. The amount of jobs a farm has, as well as raising their demand, regardless of tax. Take a look in the modding files section for more.

Hope this helps.

[patcherke 0]

I tried the mod and removed it again!

it indeed does multiply the number of jobs, but due to less farms, the tax income is also less ( you heard it right : even less!)

with this mod, I could never get into the black numbers.

 

 

The demand for agriculture is not the problem, there is enough of it in my starting city.

 

The problem is that I have to lay down so much of them to be quite effective.

 

 

[vidioman 21]

Date: 12/16/2005 8:07:15 AM
Author: patcherke

I tried the mod and removed it again!

it indeed does multiply the number of jobs, but due to less farms, the tax income is also less ( you heard it right : even less!)
with this mod, I could never get into the black numbers.
The demand for agriculture is not the problem, there is enough of it in my starting city.
The problem is that I have to lay down so much of them to be quite effective.

quote>

Well, the additional jobs it has will increase residential, you can tax them.

You didn't mention anything about trying to get back into the black. Try laying down some light industrial, it usually works if you put it on the edge of downtown..


yellow is farm, dark yellow is industrial, blue is commercial green is residential (this is an example of a town) the dull green is open space. Try placing the industrial zones in an area like that, make sure they have acces to the edge of themap (same for farms)

You have to get dirty industrial at some point. There is a mod that will stop pollution.

There is also a mod to get 100,000,000

[SofiaFian 0]

There is also a mod to get 100,000,000

[vidioman 21]

Date: 12/16/2005 12:28:51 PM
Author: SofiaFian

'There is also a mod to get 100,000,000§ at the begining of a city, to get extra money, as well as lots that will give you billions of dollars, if you're olkay with ceating. (I do it all the time )'

Um sorry for changing the subject, but would is there such a mod for sim city 4 without RUSH Hour? My computer is so slow I cant even run it which means I cant even get the transportation mod or anything (from what I can tell that is...). Thanks ...

quote>

If it says it needs rush hour, then you need rushhour. You can try going to the simcity.com exchange, look up billion dollar man and get that. It's a small lot that will give you 4,500,000,000 a month when you plop it

[patcherke 0]

The problem is not to stay in the black. Because I am a slow player ( I don't zone too much at once, and don't zone extra too quick) I have kept my budget in the black. Not that I am getting rich of this black number though

 

because this is my first city, I have 2 objectives:

• staying in the black because of good gameplay (and learn to keep track of income and expenses)
• growing a huge city. The more inhabitants, the better. I will look at the esthetical aspect, but this is not a must at the moment.

When I get the grasp of the gameplay itself, I can tell myself that I have played it right. Maybe not in the most beautiful way, but that's life.

I have tried the mods, just to see what's on the market. But never intended to use them right away. (except for the cul-de-sac, the bridge height remover and things like that, nothing that cheats)
So I'll skip the cheating thingies for the moment.

 

The esthetical aspect will follow in the following city. And there the esthetics will be prioritized over budgetting. And if I have to use the cheating mods, I will consider it.

 

However, If I manage to built a beautiful city, without going broke, that would be even better. And I will try that for sure. That is the challenge after all, isn't it?

 

I now have a village of 2500 (about), about a third of a map farmland, and the demand for this is HUUUUUGE!

Maybe establishing a neighbouring city is good now??

 

 

 

 

 

[soldyne 111]

actually the number of jobs reported on the agriculture building is not the total number of jobs for the lot.  farm jobs are determined per tile of farm zone!  if you zone a large lot you will have more farm jobs than if you zone a small lot.  instead of looking at the building query take a look at your jobs and population graph, that will tell you exactly (or nearly) how many farm jobs you have.

 

Demand is actually determined by the number of low educated R$ and R$$ sims you have.  if education rises or you get too many R$$$ you will have lower agricultural demand.  If you want a farming community I would not put anything more than a single a elementary school in.

 

I think what vidioman was trying to explain was farming desirability.  farms want low traffic, streets, low pollution and very flat land.

 

as far as taxes go and making a profit, dont expect really high numbers with a farm city.  It is very possible to break even or make money with a farm city but you are better off trying it on a large or medium map.  A small map might not have enough room to make enough farms or residence.  I was able to just barely break even on a medium map with a large river in the middle of it.  so it can be done.

 

Why do people use farms?  well like vidioman said, for realism.  also there are some rewards like the farmers market and state fair which need farm population.  it is also good to have farm communities if you are trying to make a really large region and want to have everything from skyscrappers to cattle ranches.

 

since you say this is your first city and your goal is to balance the budget and get a large population I would say that a farm city would be more for a neighbor connection and not really for the main city.  To get really large populations in SC4 you really need to learn and master the art of region play.  in your main city you dont need farms at all just commercial, res and some industry.  you can make a connecting city with all farms and one with all dirty industry to satisfy demand.

 

I hope this was helpful and if you need any clarification just ask.

[patcherke 0]

I know that for establishing a high population, I have to extend over the edges.

 

but I have to start somewhere, isn't it?

The main reason the my farming land demand is so high, is because of my low level of education. (I just started my city, so I just recently added an elementary school)

 

Until now I have sticked to one (large) map. (which has been built with only a few mountains, one river an a seacoast, mainly for easiness of the play)

 

If I start a neigbouring city (a connecting road has allready been built), I am wondering how my level of education will be there.

 

Is education level something that rises gradually over the entire region (if school coverage is good off course), or will my education level be zero everytime I start a new neighbouring city?

 

Because if so, I will have to start every new part in the region with farming land. and that is something that does not sound logically.

 

 

(note to myself : try it out and you probably will see...)

 

 

now with one police station, 1 fire station, 1 elementary school,  1 small clinic, power and water, I can accomodate about 2300 low density residentials.

(maybe something interesting to now for other newbies)

 

 

Is it better to expand also in neighbouring cities right from the start, or is it better to wait until my first region has a certain size, education level, or whatever??

 

 

[soldyne 111]

<edit> sorry for the long post, I had a lot to say...</edit>

 

These are very intelligent questions.  lets see how do at answering them...

 

it is not necessary to start every city with farmland.  R$ and to a lesser degree R$$ with low education not only demand agriculture but also demand Dirty Industrial.  most of the time when I start some random city I zone for low density res and High density Industrial.  I have never bothered with other densities for industrial and I usually only use farm land for eye candy purposes.

 

perhaps it would be better to think of demand as not what your sims are asking for but more like what your sims are willing to live with.  just because demand is high for something does not make it needed.  it is quite possible to build an entire region with no farms at all.  You can even build entire cities that are nothing but commercial zones and dont need any industry or res at all, just so long as that city is connected to a res city you will be fine.

 

as far as education is concerned every time a new building pops up the education is low.  education can only be high within the limits of your educational buildings and only if that building has been there for a long time.  for instance if you have an area with high EQ and then destroy all the res homes, the new homes that grow will all be low EQ.  so yes your EQ rating will always be low to start.

 

So the question then becomes do I always need to start with IA and ID when I make a new city?  the answer (without getting too complex) is no.  with the advent of region play your sims are capable of commuting to neighbor cities to find jobs.  this means that the smart sims in one city will actually affect the demand for IM, IHT and Commercial jobs in neighboring cities.  infact I have a region where one city has about 30k residence but has 40k comm jobs and 30k IHT jobs!  the education in this city is fairly low (I am only using elementary schools and librarys) but the demand in this city is soaring due to the effect of the neighboring city (with has an average EQ of 200 and 500k residence all looking for high paying jobs).

 

as far as knowing when to expand it really all depends on your play style.  I can tell you that I play regionally right from the start.  I always have my ID and IM in a neighboring city and keep my main city res and comm only, forcing the population to commute to the neighbor for the industrial work.  When my biggest city reached about 300k, it began to stall in its growth, even with high demand.  so I build a small suburb and the main city exploded with growth to about 500k.  so I guess one point of advice is that when you city seems to have stalled and you cant seem to do anything in the city to fix it, make a neighbor!

 

If you dont like building farms then dont.  if you like it then keep it up.  it is not a necessity.  I would say that the first hurdle in building a large thriving city/region is education.  It takes a while for the EQ rating to rise but once it does it is like a flood gate for CO$$, CO$$$, and IHT.  after the EQ hurdle you have to worry about mass transit but that is a topic for another time.

 

I also want to comment on your use of civic buildings.  you can build and run your city as you see fit and no one will say that you are wrong (no one nice any way), but if you are concerned about balancing the budget there are some civic services which the sims can do without and it wont hurt things all that much. 

 

Schools obviously are the first to get put in due to the time it takes to make people smarter.  Libraries are actually quite useful and if you change the funding locally you can get a lot of library coverage for a little amount (as little as 5 or 10 per library).  Dont skimp on the libraries they help more than you might think.  Museums are the same way; they can be funded localy for a small amount and each one affects the entire city so really you only need one (you need more if you want the major art museum award).  The city college also affect the entire map, and for a city of 500k I only ever needed one college.  I would do as you did and start with elementary and libraries.  when the EQ graph seems to stabalize and you can afford it put in one museam, one city college, and some high schools and that should me enough.

 

The next thing to go in is the hospital.  health is important for many reasons which I wont go into right now.  I use the large hospital as it has a larger radius and I think is more effective.

 

The next thing I give my sims is water but only when my city has begun to expand out more.  water is needed if you are going to attract R$$ and R$$$ citizens and if you want to have medium or high density.

 

the next thing to add is fire coverage.  Most people say to wait till you have your first fire then add the building.  This is generally a good idea.  I like to use the large fire station.

 

the last thing to add is police.  crime is very interesting in this game as it is directly affected by, guess what, education!  the higher your average education the lower your crime rate will be.  it is actually quite possible to get away with no police coverage at all in a city with high EQ.  my city with 200 EQ and 500k res has an average of 5 crimes per year!  The only time you really need to add police is when you have added everything else, your city is doing well and you need to raise land value to attract more sims.  otherwise dont waste the money.

 

most importantly though is local funding, keep your civic buildings under funded just enough to cover what is needed.  no sense having a school which can handle 500 kids when there are only 100 attending.  also note that ambulance and bus funding of 0 still gives a decent radius of coverage.  experiment with 0 funding and see what you can work with.

 

I hope all this made sense and if you need anything more let me know.