Help with SuperCluster

[TheFoot 0]

Hi All,

I have recently picked up SC4 again after purchasing the Rush Hour expansion as an early Christmas gift for myself.    I have always loved the SimCity games and always loved trying to create a self-contained cluster that is reproducible, highly expandable, and addresses as many problems as possible.

 

Let me start by showing a snip of the first rev of a SuperCluster (the signs are for measurement, d46 means 46 tiles from the sign that just says d):

http://www.squick.cc/img/supercluster.jpg align=baseline>

 

That is half a SuperCluster in zone view, imagine it being replicated on the bottom half.  I first laid down all the four major services, then built residential blocks to all be within their radius.  I then put a buffer of commercial zones to protect against the industrial polution, and finally the outside rim of the SuperCluster is industrial.

 

My initial thought was to only use these SuperClusters in cities that I could make high-tech industrial only, which would knock down on pollution almost completely.

 

I have a problem now though, once this half of the SuperCluster reaches about 20,000 people traffic starts to become bad at the intersections.  I have no mass transit, but am highly receptive to the idea of reforming the SuperCluster to use multiple types of MT if you all can help me with what type I should use and what is the best placement.  I understand that buses should be every six squares, would that mean a bus stop in every single sector of zoning in this map?  What road designs can I use to help with the intersection traffic?  I tried longer zones to make less intersections, I also made a major design change to alternating one-way roads.  Neither has done much to help.  I even tried a SuperCluster using avenues, and those intersections were worse then the one-way road intersections!

 

I am highly open to the idea of adding rail (monorail or true rail).

 

This Cluster is on a test map, which just happened to be a medium sized, but in reality these would be deployed slowly on multiple large maps.

 

My goal in SimCity games has always been to get as many people, and as many big buildings as possible.  I definitely admire the incredible design work that a lot of you people have done on your maps, especially the show us your transportation layouts but my goal for now is density.

 

I have never had any luck with any MT at all, even freeways never get used except for inter-city transportation.  So any specific guidance would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks!

 

-Eric TheFoot

[nowereman 0]

Welcome

look's good mabey if you streched out your grids it might help,(sidenote:I'm not very good but my newer cities are getting better due to good help)

Do you have NAM? If you don't you should get it you can find a link on the main page. NAM will give you a pleathora of options for your transportion.

I have always used rail and monorail,but sims never used them much. Bus stops will only work for lower class sims.Use your odinaces to promote mass transit they do make a diffrence.

[tchaos713 5]

You can use the RadicalCapacity Mod with the NAM to increase your roads capacity, but this is essentially skirting the problem. If you have 6x6 zones (the most efficient grid), then you only have to place bus stops every 13 tiles. The easiest MT addition beyond buses would probably be subways (since they, also have a small above ground footprint). Monorail is also good, but at the cost of space. Same with heavy rail, except the space penalty is worse.

There is a really good grid experiment that you should read.
frndofyaweh's Grid Secrets: a tutorial CJ . He has several different grid iterations. If you're going for density and population, you should read it.

Hope this helps. PM me if you have any questions.

Edit: and Welcome to Simtropolis!!!! (How rude of me to forget!)

[Ethereal_Mayor 0]

if you're going for high density, and high tech industry... commercial next to industry is bad news

[tchaos713 5]

On the contrary, I-HT will probably love to grow right next to Commercial, and Commercial won't have many problems right next to I-HT. Remember that I-HT is very low polluting and *enhances* land values (not to mention requiring high land value in the first place). Plus, you will have many $$$ jobs for the $$$ sims you will need for CO-$$$.

[hym 358]

Welcome to ST.  If you have any questions, feel free to ask any member of the Simtropolis Help Squad.

It seems like your question has some good answers to it.  I will add that since you are going for high density, it would be wise to place trees over the zones so that they increase the value of the land (for a brief period) and that will help encourage high wealth development which will eventually translate into skyscrapers.

 

BTW, your picture is too big; the limit is 800x600.

[TheFoot 0]

nowereman: Thank you for the comments, I do not use NAM right this moment, I was going to try with the default Rush Hour tiles first.  I just picked up RH recently, so all of the new options were a big boost to me.  Could you please give me some examples of how you have used monorail in your cities?  I tried a simple medium-sized city with the residential, commercial, and industrial each located in corners of the map, them all connected by monorail and nothing else.  The idea was to see if I could get everyone to use the monorail.  I could get the city up to about 50,000 people, but after that too many buildings were being abandoned due to commute times, even though if they took the rail it should have been extremely fast.  Specifically, do you aim to have people walk from their door to the rail station, or do you use parking garages?

 

tchaos713: Thank you very much for giving me the link to frndofyaweh's story, I loved that!  I know a lot of people do not like the grid, I am not going for a true pure grid, but more of a space station template that can be transplanted into any city and have it succeed.  I might use the RadicalCapacity Mod, but I would prefer to try and make a transportation network that works without mods.

 

Ethereal_Mayor: Thank you for reminding me about polution next to commercial, I sort of forgot about that!  Perhaps I could have a starter city that is my dirt pit, which is the dirty industrial.  Then in my main city I will raise tax on AG, ID, and IM, preventing the dirty industrials from forming at all.  Do you think that would have any success?

 

tchaos713: How would I go about raising the value of land to have HI come in?  Do you think if I had the residential people highly educated and very happy that the value would spill all the way over?  Or shoul I rely on value-enhancing gifts or parks?

 

hym: Thanks for the welcome!  I have been reading the boards here for the past several days.  I think I have been reading more then playing the game!  Simtropolis Help Squad, that's cute, I like it!  Thanks for the info on the image size, I shrunk it.

 

So now for anyone...  I have been working with grid paper and a 15 year old box of crayons (I forgot how much fun those are), and one area that I am getting stuck at is how large to make the blocks.  I understand that there are eight levels of buildings, I'm assuming that a level eight skyscraper will not form on a 2x2 square...  Does anyone know what size base is needed for the level eight skyscrapers?

 

One problem too that I have been pondering is that sims that want to get to the residential area need to truck right through the commercial zones, then back to get home...  I'm guessing that might cause double the normal traffic in the comercial zones.  In theory, wouldn't having residential in the middle and industrial on one side and commercial on the other be more efficient?  People would either leave out to the right to go to commercial, or leave left to go to industrial?  (Imagine those being huge clumps of zones)

http://www.squick.cc/img/zone1.jpg align=baseline>

Thanks again for all the help, I would love more suggestions!

 

-Eric TheFoot

[Ethereal_Mayor 0]

commercial likes ht ind... but ht ind doesn't like commercial!

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Well, no zone likes or dislikes another one in itself. What I-HT dislikes is noise, traffic, and pollution. Bigger commercials, however, like lots of traffic. And traffic causes noise and pollution, so that's why I-HT won't be a good neighbour.

However, I-HT will mix quite well with not too dense residential zones, because both share a liking for low crime, traffic, noise and pollution. Besides, it's not that unrealistic that modern industrial zones (or mixed industrial / low-density commercial) are near to suburban reseidential zones.

That said, it's actually a good idea to put commercials between R and I. While this WILL increase traffic, it's exactly the high traffic that will be an important asset for the attractivity of your commercial zones. Having commercials face the busiest arteries, whereas residentials are set back a bit and face less busy side roads is generally a good idea.

Your information about the 8 levels (stages in SimGeekish) is correct. Stage 8 buildings will not develop unless (a) your city is big enough, (b) sufficient services are in place, © dense zones are provided. The higher buildings generally grow on lot sizes like 2x3/3x2 (rare, mostly medium buildings), 2x4/4x2 (many high-rise apartments), 4x3/3x4 (apartment blocks and office towers) and 4x4. The biggest buildings in SC4 grow on 4x4.

Downloaded buildings (BATs) made by the great people here at Simtropolis can be much bigger than that - 3x6, 5x4, 6x6, anything. Nowadays even bigger than 6x6.

The dirt pit strategy will work.

[TheCrybKeeper 278]

The Foot: What Twrecks said.

But it also depends on what you want. If commerce is fanned out in all four directions this also lowers traffic density. Keep Ind in an opposite direction or a different city of itself, promotes High tech growth and my commercial does extremely well that way. I abandoned trains and went with seaports also.

 

I also tried residential centralized, then commerce, with industry along the edge, but found that this caused pollution, traffic, abandonment, early into the game. My freight trains worked well though, although I suspected, they stop traffic a bit.

 

EDIT: forgot to mention; I know you really liked my CJ. Thank you for the great comments! Remember, there are several ways to make a city grow and grow differently, as in differing buildings and densities and wealths.

 

My CJ shows a design that promotes medium and high density as well as all wealth levels, but other designs promote suburbs or rural success and yes, even bigger skyscrapers than mine are possible!

[Leevo 0]

Such clusters are easy to do, but I prefer forcing my sims to take certain paths to work(industrial zones, especially industry which pollutes, to be specific). Upgrade roads and add mass transit as congestion demands. Controlling the routes sims take also encourages high customer usage of commercial zones in the early game. Just plop yer shops inbetween home and work.

Also, while the grid idea might help cut down on traffic, chances are your roads aren't being entirely used to full capacity early on, and your road maintenance costs will be uneccessarily high. If congestion gets too high for mass transit and upgraded roads to help, then dont be afraid to demolish some zoning to create additional routes. Your sims wont vote you out of office unless your horribly in debt.

High tech industry doesnt like commercial too much, mainly from road traffic, but I find this can usually be offset by a plaza or two. The commercial zones also appreciate the plaza. I tend to keep my high tech jobs 'closer to home' as well. Being at or near my residential development. The I-HT seems to naturally prefer this, and it has the added benefit of cutting down on road traffic from those stuffy R-$$$ who refuse to use mass transit.

To pull off I-HT development close to home does require a bit of micromanagement. You don't want manufacturing or dirty industry developing in your sims backyards, so making use of the bulldozer while speeding up time comes in handy. Just keep knocking down unwanted industry until all the zoning becomes I-HT. You'll also need sufficient demand of I-HT development, as well as a high desireability for it in the places you plan on zoning it.

It seems my years as a pizza delivery boy paid off in knowledge of placement and usage of roads.