Simtropolis Religion Thread

[MintberryCrunch 83]

2 hours ago, philforhockey51 said:

How are geographical regions sinful?

Yes, tell me about how "sinful" the SF area is when it's the "Bible Belt" that gets slammed with tornadoes and floods and arctic freezes. God must be directing his anger at the wrong place. It's those "queerosexuals" in SF that really need the heavy hand of divine retribution.

Pat Robertson is still wrong. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Only fools attempt to make mass judgement of others.  Even your mythology states "Judge not, lest you be judged".

Watch out for translations.  Translators often have agendas.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

4 hours ago, philforhockey51 said:

How are geographical regions sinful?

The true blockage of progress is religion.

So according to you there are bad people and good people and somehow the bad people will go bye bye and the good people will not be affected, like only good people live in one area. Apparently in the Seattle area where the development of a $7 coffee is a good thing? The bad people live where the sports rivals live in the San Fran area and meanwhile we on the east coast couldn't give two licks about either so... you're evil and are holding back our society, please stop thanks  

No; according to my previous belief (which remains my sister's belief) WWIII will wipe out all complex (delicate) life. This is what the media spreads because scandals and tragedies sell.

According to Revelations, the good people living in corrupt cities (such as SF, LA, NYC, Dubai, Beijing, and even Seattle) will suffer at the hands of the decadent and corrupt empire and none of the good people who ignore God's warning will be spared from witnessing the horrors that will afflict the wicked (disease spreads and earthquakes impact entire regions).

Most of the suffering mentioned in Revelations can be interpreted as I have interpreted but multiple alternate interpretations are possible. Read a good translation (not JW, LDS, KJ, or RCC) and interpret the Word of God for yourself. My Kindle version of the NASB has the original Greek and Hebrew and alternate translations in footnotes.

I do not want to parrot dogma or spew hatred; I just want more people to turn to the light I only recently started to witness in the Palouse. Jeshua suffered the worst kind of execution so that all of us sinners can enter into heaven. I didn't mean to imply that Seattle was any better because it quite frankly is worse than NYC. I used to only do good out of a sense of duty and constantly wallowed in self-pity and self-hatred. If I was physically healthy in high school and successfully entered UW out of high school, I believe I might have ended up like Dr Faustus. I'm a little better now, but only when I pray and listen to Good instead of Evil. The part of me that likes to argue often shuts out outside voices, such as the positive affirmations I think of when blessed by my prayers or the prayers of the faithful.

 

Sincerely,

Ocram

  Edited January 21, 2016 by OcramsRzr  
Peace be with you

[krbe 193]

6 hours ago, OcramsRzr said:

My Kindle version of the NASB has the original Greek and Hebrew and alternate translations in footnotes

What does that help unless you speak Greek or Hebwrew? And not just any Greek mind you; that sort of Greek is not understood any longer.

As useless as the Arabic translation in my Koran. If I desired an Arab Koran I would have bought one.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Neither Ancient Greek (Attic Greek, Achaean) nor old Hebrew (Aramaic) will help with the biblical scriptures.  They were written in very dead languages at least a millennium before the aforementioned were in the vernacular.  Several scholarly works I've encountered say that Jeshua bar Jose spoke Aramaic not Hebrew as spoken in the temple of Solomon. 

The first book of the New Testament was written 80 years after the documented crucifixion, probably with all the ancient writings open on the table.  As for the book of St. John the Divine, I think the gentleman had a serious internal parasite that generated waste products that gave him hallucinations.  In any case, it is all mythology with no more currency than the tales of the Brothers Grimm.

One needs to be aware of the one good thing that comes out of the Christian ethic and it is best seen in the Sermon on the Mount.  How accurate the telling is, is moot.  However, it is clearly true in my humble opinion.  Live so as not to damage anyone.

[Skimbo 304]

14 hours ago, OcramsRzr said:

Once humanity sheds off evil, learns to live sustainably, and begins to recover, the vast majority of scientific progress will be accessible (once they return to the desolate cities to rebuild better than before) and all moral scientific progress will pick up the pace (faster than now, when it has to compete for resources with less ethical experiments in this greedy world).

The vast majority of the scientific progress includes lots of things having to do with weapons. And all it takes is one of your purified sheep to turn into a wolf. Which will happen due to human nature.

9 hours ago, OcramsRzr said:

According to Revelations [...]

Is there any scientificly prooven source for theese relevations?

 

By the way: Why are there only corrupted cities? Why no towns/villages?

 

 

9 hours ago, OcramsRzr said:

Most of the suffering mentioned in Revelations can be interpreted as I have interpreted but multiple alternate interpretations are possible. Read a good translation (not JW, LDS, KJ, or RCC) and interpret the Word of God for yourself. My Kindle version of the NASB has the original Greek and Hebrew and alternate translations in footnotes.

 

Question: Who or what confirms that this is a word of a god? (If a god exists but we had that already and I still deny his/her existence)

 

 

BTW: .... why is god male? Shouldn't it rather be a genderless spirit?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If you want to engage in speculation about the purified sheep situation, read Animal Farm by George Orwell.  It is not a very thick book, and describes what happens when the pigs become more equal.

[LexusInfernus 908]

22 hours ago, Skimbo said:

6 Horsemen against modern weapons: Poland prooved that a stupid idea in WW2. Would feel like standing there with a minigun in a zombie shooter. Bad gameplay.

Just an interesting bit of information, but that story about how the Polish supposedly charged German tanks on horseback is a propaganda myth employed by the Nazis and the Soviets. The Nazis used it to demontrate how the Polish were supposedly subhumans, because hey, charging tanks with horses is clearly an idiotic thing to do, and the Soviets used it as an heroic but in the end pointless battle by the old government and how it would make place for Socialism. Also, in their version they used T-34's which served as a silent warning what would happen to Poland should they get ideas that didn't gel with Moscow. 

In reality, while the Polish did have cavalry, they used the horses mostly to carry around anti tank and heavy machine guns. They also used it gain a mobility advantage over German infantry units. They were actually pretty effective, considering what they were up against. Also, the Nazi's themselves employed loads of horses. Horse drawn carriages were actually the main mode of transport for the German army, because resources were scarce and fuel was prioritized for tanks and airplanes.  

[Skimbo 304]

3 hours ago, A Nonny Moose said:

If you want to engage in speculation about the purified sheep situation, read Animal Farm by George Orwell.  It is not a very thick book, and describes what happens when the pigs become more equal.

I know that book. Still: Pigs are prey animals and won't rule forever

 

26 minutes ago, LexusInfernus said:

Just an interesting bit of information, but that story about how the Polish supposedly charged German tanks on horseback is a propaganda myth employed by the Nazis and the Soviets.  

You didn't get my humor there.

[philforhockey51 4,211]

15 hours ago, OcramsRzr said:

Read a good translation (not JW, LDS, KJ, or RCC) and interpret the Word of God for yourself. My Kindle version of the NASB

Not sure of your abbreviations I usually don't see them so not sure what they are.  johovah witness is JW, LDS is latter day saints? KJ I can't take a guess not sure. RCC is Roman Catholic Church, which all other "christens" dislike but in reality is the start of the religion. It is the source of the new testament most likely written between and over the time frame of 80ce to 400ce, or is it 440ce, anyway after some more time passed some people were tired of it and wrote a new one then some other volumes till now we have multiple versions of the bible. I assume NASB is one of those versions (not sure what that stands for other than the B) So not only are people following the ideas of men centuries in the ground with little to no knowledge of the planet they lived on, whom have made up stories for whatever purpose, and are willing to commit  horrible crimes(including wars, slavery, domestic abuse, bigotry, sexism, genital mutilation of children) in the name of said stories.  Take a Star Wars fan with strong beliefs and let them put the word "preacher" in front of their name and see how many will believe the Jedi and the Sith existed.  Let's instead operate in reality where facts rule and where we think to the future and worry about tomorrow, since otherwise what is the point of today. Also note if everyone stopped thinking about tomorrow there would be no such thing as farming. Let us not advance ourselves to help others let us instead stop anyone from advancing because it makes us feel funny ... does that seem like an unselfish thing to you? 

sorry I don't want it to seem like I am attacking you or being hateful, I'm not at all, it's why I tend not to write in these threads I just wish some people would open their eyes further and really see the world for what it is, what we can make it. You want peace and happiness and so do I but to think we will find it in science fiction rather than science is going in the wrong direction. No matter how good your intentions there will be those whom do evil who believe in the same you do, but to say that you can only do good if you believe the way I do is not very good. 

  Edited January 22, 2016 by philforhockey51  
trying not to sound angry edit

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Read a good translation and interpret the Word of God for yourself. Or strive each day to listen to your heart and be your absolutely best and use your natural talents to try always make the world a better place, constantly tempted and cursed if you have no spirituality. Belief in a supernatural force of creation to strive to work for along with a complete rejection of destructive forces (wastefulness, vanity, regret, envy, fear, anger, greed, hatred, violence...) are all that are needed to be a truly good person. One doesn't have to be Christian because Vishnu, Gaia, and Buddha are also positive forces of good. Secular spirituality is all goodness with no dogma. I'm quite fond of the works of Eckhart Tolle. Gnostic Atheists and Dogmatic Christians/Jews/Muslims don't have the peace,  joy, or hope that spiritual people have.

 

Let me clear things up

Jehovah Witnesses - Intentionally Altered

Latter Day Saints/Book of Mormon - Intentionally Altered and Expanded

King James Bible - Earliest English Translation with Heavy Unintentional Bias

Roman Catholic Church/Vatican's Bible - Intentionally Altered, Added Apocraphia

 

Quote "
The Fourfold Aim of The Lockman Foundation

1. These publications shall be true to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.
2. They shall be grammatically correct.
3. They shall be understandable.
4. They shall give the Lord Jesus Christ His proper place, the place which the Word gives Him; therefore, no work will ever be personalized.

The Lockman Foundation (2013-06-26). New American Standard Bible-NASB 1995 (Includes Translators' Notes) (Kindle Locations 1423-1425). The Lockman Foundation. Kindle Edition. "

 

Addendum: I look to fiction for idyllic societies and how utopia is formed and maintained. I follow the Scientific Process to learn more about the world around me and solve problems for today's society. I read about historic and current events to see the depressingly violent and cyclic nature of history and cruelty of our society.

[Skimbo 304]

Problem here: As phil already mentioned, no translation is truly original. So basically every bible translation somehow tells stories that aint true. If there was a godlike spirit or whatsoever, it would have made sure that it's words are interpretated properly. Now ask a guy from, a Mormon or a Jehova.. what would they tell you? - just as the Lockman foundation does - that their version of the bible is the true bible. Get my problem?

If the foundation says that their version of the bible is true to three early translations - how can they make sure theese translations haven't been changed?

Same problem with the Koran, btw.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The most scholarly edition of the Christian bible I've ever seen (in production) was the one produced by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Brooklyn, NY.  I believe it was a limited edition because it included side and footnotes in the original languages in the original alphabets.  We were looking at them for a typesetting application.  These people are otherwise known as the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The Rheims-Douay edition of the bible is a Bowdlerization for the benefit of the Roman Catholic laity.  Beware.  If you read Latin you are better off with the Vulgate. 

I prefer the King James version (KJ) for its language.  If you are going to have an English language mythology, it should be in good English.

Even though I am a putative Roman Catholic, the bible on my shelf is the King James.  If that sends me to the stake, so be it.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I have no doubt that the Old Testament is inaccurate. Centuries of oral tradition exaggerated all stories and the oldest surviving copy is newer than the oldest surviving copy of the Gospels. The holy people and theological scholars tried to codify the oral traditions (that explains the Talmund) and enforce traditional laws (the Kh....). Unfortunately, they rejected the teachings of the best biblical scholar in history and stuck to outdated tradition. The Koran is like the opposite of the New Testament. It is darker, more violent, and scary than the Old Testament. Personally, I believe that Mohammed was a false prophet but I rarely ever say that in public. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

But you see where heresy leads.  Islam is broadly divided into two main factions: the Sunni; and the Shi'a.  However, within these there are yet more factions.  It is more like the Protestant movement in the Christian church, and considering the current age of the religion, just as violent as Christianity was at that stage of its existence.  Think about Savonarola and what would have happened to Luther if the Church had got its hands on him.

[philforhockey51 4,211]

Actually the oldest copies of text from the bible have been found and they date to the last centuries bce, over a hundred years older than the gospel itself... just saying

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

You can be a good person without religion or "spirituality" whatever that really is, you just have to do the things you're doing to be peaceful without the need to justify it

As A Nonny Moose has pointed out numerous times, the only thing that matters is how you treat others, do good for others for the sake of doing good and feeling good because you are doing good, not because you think some guy in an ancient cave wanted you to or that there is a reward for doing it like a place called heaven.

[krbe 193]

On 1/22/2016 at 0:17 AM, philforhockey51 said:

Actually the oldest copies of text from the bible have been found and they date to the last centuries bce, over a hundred years older than the gospel itself... just saying

The Dead Sea Scrolls relate to the Hebrew Bible, so quite naturally they'd predate the Gospels. They also contain just certain manuscripts included in the Hebrew Bible. Further to that point, there are other manuscripts included in the Hebrew Bible that are older than the Dead Sea Scrolls.

But it is correct that some consider the Hebrew Bible -- the entirety of it -- to have been finally collected since after the oldest manuscripts of the Gospels have been written. That does not necessarily mean that the texts post-date the Gospels.

On a related note, some contend that the Norse Pantheon is an invention of later (Christian) scribes; suggesting that it is a collection of singularly worshipped gods across Scandinavia. That would date Norse mythology post the religion itself.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Mythology of various peoples is full of coincidences.  This is because they are all trying to explain what happens to a person after death.  A common goal can easily produce common thought.  Some imaginations, however, are better than others.

[inspire224 13]

Any one here that believes in Germanic religions?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Depends on which one you have in mind.  Seem the Germans got most of their ideas from the Scandinavian pantheon.  Many of the Christian sects popular in Germany originated in Switzerland.  And watch out for the Walsungasage, it is French (Burgundian).

On the other hand, NAZI-ism had a sort of Teutonic mythology attached that I think was invented out of whole cloth by Hitler himself or a very close associate.

 

[inspire224 13]

On 3/1/2016 at 8:39 AM, A Nonny Moose said:

Depends on which one you have in mind.  Seem the Germans got most of their ideas from the Scandinavian pantheon.  Many of the Christian sects popular in Germany originated in Switzerland.  And watch out for the Walsungasage, it is French (Burgundian).

On the other hand, NAZI-ism had a sort of Teutonic mythology attached that I think was invented out of whole cloth by Hitler himself or a very close associate.

 

I think its amazing how Germanic religions basically did not make their way into modern times like Islam or Christianity. Maybe it has something to do 
with the Christening of Western Europe? 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I think you can figure that the Church stamped them out as part of the general spread of Christianity in the middle ages.  The polytheistic religions don't have a chance against monotheistic ones.  They are simply too complicated.

However, you will notice, perhaps, that the Germanic gods have survived in the names of the days of the week.  Today is Wednesday (Woden's day), and tomorrow is named for Thor.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Many (if not most) modern people living in developed nations no longer believe in miracles because many perform small miracles each day with the help of modern technology. Many doubt the struggle between good and evil because the enemy doesn't need to fight to maintain control over populations complacent to injust ruling/occupation and possessions have become movie plots or "malnutrition induced insanity" in less developed countries. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

An interesting thought, but what happens when the sheeple get taken in like the German people, who were in dire straights, by a mountebank who promises pie in the sky, but later turns out to be pure evil?

"How fortunate for rulers that the ruled don't think."  -- Adolf Hitler.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Yes yes, people are sheeple, they don't think and prefer to live in ignorance. Except that most don't actually. Most people know exactly what they get with their leaders. They know and they either don't care if the guy is promising to start a war, or they actually want that war themselves. 

Don't share Adolf's contempt for the common voters as if he was chosen out of stupidity, he wasn't, no one ever is. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

You will even defend the indefensible, eh?  Defend Adolf the Aryan all you like, doesn't make any part of it acceptable.

[LexusInfernus 908]

I'm not defending him, I'm saying its incorrect to state that people like Adolf the Aryan got elected due to the 'sheeple' being stupid and unthinking. They knew what they were getting with Hitler. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I think if you look closely, you will find that most German people wanted things to be different and better.  And so it was, but most of them couldn't even imagine what was coming, and most people thought it would 'blow over'.  Unfortunately it blew up.  Anything would have been better than the mess left by the Treaty of Versailles with the vengeful clauses.  Bankrupting the loser never works.  It just reinforces them as enemies.

[Skimbo 304]

A. got voted because of being in the right position at the right time. The Socialists, Communists and Crhistian democratics had just started to revive germany. They starded up things like the Autobahn project to create thousands of jobs for the working class and pump money into the rebuilding of other important infrastructures. But the sucess wasn't visible for the general public yet. A. had very good rethoric skills and - seing the opportunity to use all theese started up projects for his own use - promised the people a better life in desperate times. Of course they voted for his party. Later on, all theese projects to revive the economy started by others kicked in during his first political period. - Of course people voted for him again. By the way.... One of his slogans was - translated into english: "I want to make Germany great again" .... Whoops

[igotthis 12]

I think that religion is man-made. It is all organized under rules that a set of elite created to impose upon the masses for digestion and control. If there is a God, it is not something man can ever understand and, as a limited-minded man, I would think is more of a deistic-turn - likely not caring about worship or even caring we exist. I tend more toward 'there is no god, or at least nothing to worship".