Massive Train Derailment in Quebec

[north country dude 202]

Huge fire erupts in Lac-Mégantic, QC, Canada, as an oil train derails. All of downtown is burning right now.

 

video 1

video 2

video 3

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

That is really a shame.  No casualties apparently (so far).  Reports say the town is ashes.

[Easy Bakes 253]

wow

[north country dude 202]

That is really a shame.  No casualties apparently (so far).  Reports say the town is ashes.

We can only pray. They are currently trying to contact the missing in the hope that they are away on vacation or just weren't home at the time.

 

In another report, someone pointed out that the tracks were not in good condition for a "hazmat" train. It was noted that the line was overgrown with weeds in places and lacked the proper ballast,...this data is unconfirmed at this time. In one of the videos, you can see a rail line where only the rails are visible through the grass, whether or not this was the actual track that was used by this train is unclear, but other views of the area do show that the track was not in the best of conditions.

[hym 358]

Does Canada have regulations discouraging the use of pipelines?  Or are they just not commonly used?  It would seem to me that pipeline is the way to ship this stuff, but from the little bit of reading I have done, I have gathered that it might not be all that popular in Canada.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

We have pipelines from coast to coast to coast.  The question is what were they doing shipping this stuff on that rail line?  The pipelines are so loaded, that there is every good chance that petroleum products will go by rail or great lakes tanker if the shipment is from west to east.

 

That post implies that the US is coated with pipes.  So what difference will one more make? (Keystone XL, for example).

[hym 358]

We have pipelines from coast to coast to coast.  The question is what were they doing shipping this stuff on that rail line?  The pipelines are so loaded, that there is every good chance that petroleum products will go by rail or great lakes tanker if the shipment is from west to east.

 

That post implies that the US is coated with pipes.  So what difference will one more make? (Keystone XL, for example).

 

This is what I was able to find quickly, courtesy of the American Petroleum Institute.  (Link opens to a PDF file.)  Here is one for both oil and natural gas pipelines.

 

As for the US in general, there is a strong tendency for major industrial sites to receive and ship their products by pipeline, especially in the case of hazardous materials.  In general, this is regarded as not only the lowest cost manner to ship the product, but also the safest and most secure.

 

As for the Canadian pipeline issue, I am still wondering if there isn't something legal, political, or otherwise that is making it preferential to ship via rail as opposed to expanding pipeline networks.  Pipelines aren't particularly difficult or costly to build, and, in the US at least, it isn't too difficult to convince government authorities that a new pipeline is the preferable way to move the product.

[mrbisonm 1,620]

Maybe I can help with some info about this real life tragedy a little bit. It is some 20 hours after it happened by now.

 

I live only about 20 to 25 minutes from the town of Lac-Megantic (less than 6000 pop) I could see this morning the gigantic smoke column that arose from the eastern direction of my patio, when I woke up and cried to my wife that our neighbor farm (which I thought), on the other side of my 500 acres forest, was on fire, but she, as always was already up for more than an hour and heard about the train crash through the RDI morning news, told me it was a terrible accident in Megantic.

 

Now, this is all a mess around here, I live out in the counytry side, which is all that all over the place anyways around here and never have I seen so much action on the country roads nearby. Lac Megantic is a small town at the end of the Megantic lake (Quebec/Canada), close to Main and New Hampshire (US). They say that at least half the the small "downtown" instantly burnt down with the explosion of the tanker wagons, maybe some 30 to 40 buildings, mostly small commerces with 2 or 3 stories of appartments above. The accident was caused by a runaway train (no one aboard the train) transporting some (including others) 4 or 5 wagons filled with crude oil destinated for Halifax on the Atlantic coast, I think. The derailing occurred in a curve right in the middle of that town at about 1:40 AM Saturday (today)

 

Now there was a party going on at a kind of a cafe/bar at this time, some 75 to 80 people were part of that. Some were outside on the terrace when the train, already partially in flames came running down into town and it derailed only a few meters away from the bar.

People say that those who were outside on the terrace saw the train derailing and ran away, but those who were inside the bar were "blown up" at the same time as the oiltanks only seconds later. Half of the town is leveled, it looks awful.

 

For a small countryside community like ours, this is horrible, No deaths have been yet reported, but more than 50 people are missing at this moment. Firemen cannot yet get too close to the area because of the intense heat of the crude oil burning.

 

At this hour, 23:15 hrs (11:15 PM) I can still see a little glow of orange light in Megantic's direction from my patio and of course the dark smoke column that hangs on to it.

 

I think that a train will never go through that town again, people are sick and tired of the train going through downtown with dangerous, explosive and poisonous products, that they are talking about illegally demantelling the whole rail throughout the municipality. This is NOT the first incident, there was a spill of some 15,000 liters of diesel fuel only a few weeks back in the wooded area of Megantic (maybe 12 km's from the town) and a train that derailed with cattle some years back. This is mountainous area, but the only way to go through Maine (US) towards New Brunswick and Nove Scotia.

 

I am sure that there will be some 50 or so deaths in this incident since a lot of people were already sleeping at this hour and the rails are less than 35 meters away from the buildings and appartments that were totally and instantly destroyed with the enormous explosion. We heard the explosions, but as it was 1 AM, very humid and hot night, we thought it was thunder out back in the mountains..

One of my favourite Restaurants was flattened and more than a century old library was burnt down to ruins besides all the small buissnesses and stores of an older downtown..

 

All my feelings go with the population of this municipality.

 

mrb

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Well, I'm so glad to hear that you're okay. My first thought was "hang on, doesn't someone live in Quebec somewhere?"

I hope they get to the bottom of this, find out why this happened and help the town recover.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Follow up.

 

Generally things are not nice in Lac Megantic.  Apparently we expect to find several casualties in the remains of the local bar, which was full of people and engulfed in flames.  This is a nice little tourist town, and was packed with visitors.

[AkemiAzula 280]

My first thought was 'Why don't they build robotic trains in this day and age', then I read it wasn't manned. 

 

I don't know nothing about engineering or stuff but I reckon it was the curve what did it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The cars somehow decoupled from the engines and were free rolling.  A runaway train, gathering speed so the first hiccup would cause a derailment.  Unfortunately, the cars seem to have found a little used and poorly maintained spur through the town.

[AkemiAzula 280]

decoupled eh? ah, Watson, there lies the villain! 

 

I daresay the coupling wasn't hooked on properly.

 

Hmm. Best ensure better standards and such.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Sometimes vandals decouple trains as a prank.  If that is true in this case, whoever did it is a murderer.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Disgraceful. Decoupling trains causes inefficiency in rail networks... Idiots...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

More to the point, it causes derailments and other accidents.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Yes... Well I suppose it might cause damage to trains which could be costly, certainly.

 

Well shoot these vandals, then. They have cameras at railyards, surely... I read a book on graffiti in NYC a few years ago...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

A remote village in the eastern counties is unlikely to have surveillance equipment.  If they do, then arrests will inevitably follow.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Good. Hopefully arrests will follow. Can't have people decoupling trains.

 

In Simcity these vandals' houses would be visited by a few lightning strikes...

 

Mind you in Simcity trains can go through cars...

[mrbisonm 1,620]

No vandalism was done here. For what I know sofar is that the train has stopped in a neighborvillage where a transfer of workers (trainpilot or whatever you call them) was to be held, then the train caught on fire (most likely an exhaust fire that happens quite often with Diesel motors) somehow and the brakes weresomehow released and damaged, or something like this.(the officials don't exactly know at this point what happened) None of the pilots were aboard. Since the rails have a descend of 2% (which does not sound a lot, but is for a rail) down to the town where the accident occured (Lac-Megantic), it wasn't long before the train reached a speed of 50 or more miles an hour, and the curve in downtown wasn't able to take the train at this speed at all.

I talked to someone early this morning who was saw the train partially on fire rushing through the first part of town, and he said that it sounded like five trains when it came through the first houses of the town and less than 10 seconds later he saw (first) the massive explosion and then the rumbling sound of the explosion and all the rest of the wagons that piled up on top of several buildings, which were right in the middle of their path. He also said that the heat of the explosion, although he was more than 1200 feet away, could be instantly felt.

 

Today it is still smoking and most of the area is not yet accessible because of the heat and danger of explosion of the other tanks that are still intact. A small part of the town was though opened for rescuers, and sofar 6 bodies have been confirmed dead. They say that around 40 to 50 people are still reported missing and probably are under the wagons and trains where the Music-bar was. If so, identification of the bodies will be very difficult, since crude oil usually burns hotter and longer than gasoline. That is if they find all of the missing ones.

Tomorrow I will try to take some pics, if I can access the area a little closer. This morning the town was closed and getting even closer was impossible.

 

Now there is a danger for drinking water for several municipalities around since brut oil was spilled into the river of La Chaudiere, which flows down to Quebec City. The pollution is being worked on and several emergency dams have been constructed to slow down and catch the oily contaminents. The Chaudiere river is a famous river for troutfishing (brown and rainbow) One of the best places in my closer fishing spots.

 

 

 

 

mrb/Fred

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Thanks for the update, Fred.  Things are looking grim all around.  I hope something can be done to save La Rive Chaudiere's trout fishery.  A devastating blow to the area with the summer just starting.

 

John.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

CBC articles this morning:

Total missing now 60 but duplicates are possible.

Forensic efforts to identify victims.

 

---

 

A pronunciation note for non-Franophones:  One of the investigators is named Forget.  It is not English and is pronounced For-jay as near as I can come to it.

[mrbisonm 1,620]

There is a list of missing  indeed and 15 deaths are confirmed. The actual list is over 80 strong, but only 60 are actually considered as missing by the officials at this moment. There is a rumour that a party was held on the second floor of the cafe, which was supposed to have 20 or so participents, but how many were left at 1:40 hr in the morning is another question. This is under investigation.

 

Investigators are holding up the searches for the dead bodies at the moment, also some tanks which are still full, some slowly leaking, make this whole area a little dangerous on top. It will take at least another week before they reach the former location of the "Musicafe", the bar that supposingly had over 80 people at the time of the explosion. A big part of the bar is under the wagons, which make it impossible to search for dead bodies at this precise moment.

Besides I wonder if they will find all the bodies, the heat generated by the explosions and the 28 hr burn of the area probably has burnt off the very details of a body that was located in between and under these wagons. I seriously wonder, (also I am curious) how in the world are they able to find something in this big pile of "dust" and ashes.

 

This tragedy shook the whole area of Quebec, made people hate the rail Companies and put the rail politics and security under serious question. Rails in Canada go under the federal law of transportation, but maybe there will be a change to this here in Quebec one day, if the federal (Canadian) government does not change or improve the security on Rails. 60 to 80 life losses will be a good reason to do so.

 

That's all I can say for the moment. We are all very sensitive about this desaster at the moment and life is still slow in the region for some. There are still some 800 or so citizens that are not able to go home. Yesterday some 1000 people could find their home after 4 days.

 

Fred

[AkemiAzula 280]

Don't start attacking railways. Cars kill that many people most days.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I am afraid that is speaking out of turn, my lad. 

 

The railways in Canada have had it all their way for many decades now and regulations on hazmat shipments are lax and getting laxer.  Single crewing of that particular train was under a special permit to MMA that should never have been granted just to keep them afloat.  If the railway had to fold, well, this is a capitalist society.

 

Alas, there is room for so much finger-pointing that it will never be sorted out except by a coroner with a lot of guts.  I think the federal regulator gets to carry the can on this one.  The volunteer fire fighters in the area need to know more about rail equipment.  Who turned off that final locomotive?  Why was there a fire in the locomotive?  Who started that?  Vandalism is at an all-time high.

 

My thoughts and prayers go to the people of Lac Mégantic.  It may take years, but from all reports these people are resilient, like all Canadians.  God bless them all.

[mrbisonm 1,620]

 

  The volunteer fire fighters in the area need to know more about rail equipment.  Who turned off that final locomotive?  Why was there a fire in the locomotive?  Who started that?  Vandalism is at an all-time high.

 

 

The locomotive was turned off by the mechanic of the train. He even said that he put on a dozen or so wagons on brake......which the final investigation probably will confirm.

 

The fire was at the exhaust of the engine, caused by a little leakage of oil of a nearby pipe.

 

No one started the fire, the heat of the exhaust of the running motor did.

 

No vandalism, not even considered.

 

Once the train was stopped the brakes of the wagons should have hold the 73 wagon train, but, since there is an almost 2% downhill and the whole wagons loaded, nothing could stop it.

 

These facts are on the top list at this moment.

 

I am sure that the investigators will find the exact cause of this. One thing for sure, someone has to pay, as it always has been with humanity, even if they can't find one, there has to be someone that will be held responsable. That's the way humanity and its justice works.

 

mrb

 

 

BTW, 20 dead confirmed tonight and 50 in all missing.

[Meg 368]

 

I am sure that the investigators will find the exact cause of this. One thing for sure, someone has to pay, as it always has been with humanity, even if they can't find one, there has to be someone that will be held responsable. That's the way humanity and its justice works.

 

 

 

 

If nothing else, finding the exact cause will hopefully prevent future occurances.   It is awful what this poor town is going through.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Sad record of derailments in Canada since 2006.

 

The result of the investigation will undoubtedly punish the innocent and exonerate or ignore the guilty.  It would be interesting to see any written orders issued to the crew for this train.  Also, to discover who is responsible for the training of the crew, which was, perhaps, inadequate.

[AkemiAzula 280]

According to Classic FM this morning the guard forgot to set the brakes or something. Human error, just as I expected. Trains don't commit wickedness.

 

And I stand by 'cars kill more people'. Think of how many oil-carrying trucks/tanker ships have had accidents. This isn't about railways. Railways are good. One of my least favourite men in history was Mr Beeching. Mad axe-man if there ever was one...

 

I daresay that naturally there should be some orders given to the humans in charge of these trains to handle them properly and not slack off at work. 

 

This reminds me of a freight train at Unanderra that the papers said had cruised down the escarpment for a similar reason. However in that instance it didn't cause a accident.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Things (cars, trains) don't kill.  People do, often by inadvertence.  However, rather than blaming an individual in this case, let us all take the blame for putting in place such a weak-kneed government that has done nothing with transportation of hazardous materials by rail in years and years while the traffic is ballooning.  The buck stops at the ballot box, and especially on those who don't use it.