Question about buses. Need help please.

[eastcoast360 0]

A few updates ago they made it so buses go to bus stops that have the most people waiting. My problem is those stops are always in Residential Zones. When people leave home to seek work those bus stops have a ton of people waiting. They get picked up but instead of dropping them off in an industrial zone, the bus just goes to the next high volume bus stop (which is another residential zone). The buses never drop them off at work in industrial areas. The sims just end up going on a joyride. This in turn makes the bus system very inefficient. Does anyone know a fix for this? I really don't see a purpose in using buses if they don't transport sims to work. It's driving me crazy. Thanks for any help in advance.

[tnobles 38]

My advice is, don't use bus depots. Probably isn't what you want to hear, but if you do, use park & rides and place them away from intersections (end of roads). Terminals work so long as you don't have bus stops. They will fix this eventually.

 

Streetcars work great, by the way.

[eastcoast360 0]

My advice is, don't use bus depots. Probably isn't what you want to hear, but if you do, use park & rides and place them away from intersections (end of roads). Terminals work so long as you don't have bus stops. They will fix this eventually.

Streetcars work great, by the way.

[PatternRec 1]

My advice is, don't use bus depots. Probably isn't what you want to hear, but if you do, use park & rides and place them away from intersections (end of roads). Terminals work so long as you don't have bus stops. They will fix this eventually.

 

Streetcars work great, by the way.

 

Could you elaborate on the reasons? Is the bus system really that broken?

[tnobles 38]

When I did use buses, they weren't very efficient. It takes supreme planning and placement of stops to get them to work at all. This is just my experience with them and I didn't spend any time trying to figure them out.

 

I did notice that Park& Rides worked better than regular stops. I also noticed that two or three strategically placed Terminals (and no bus stops) worked better than bus depots with stops and park & rides.

 

I don't believe that buses can come close to streetcars. If I could buses to carry half the riders as streetcars, I probably would use them;

I broke the track so that each streetcar depot had two avenues. Used all three depots, each with its own track.

[perafilozof 143]

 

My advice is, don't use bus depots. Probably isn't what you want to hear, but if you do, use park & rides and place them away from intersections (end of roads). Terminals work so long as you don't have bus stops. They will fix this eventually.

 

Streetcars work great, by the way.

 

Could you elaborate on the reasons? Is the bus system really that broken?

 

 

It's just that busses are programed to just go where there are people to be pick up. They don't care about taking people they have already picked up to their jobs or shopping.

So Sims that enter a buss end up joyriding until by simple chance they end up the the station they intended to get off at.

[tnemelkfoo 4]

like I mentioned in another thread, maxis should give us control over this. why can't they let us set up bus routes, it really isn't that hard. similar thing can be done for trash collection, recycling collection and even set zones where police cars can patrol.

 

this will also solve all traffic issues.

 

i feel like all people are doing in this game, are finding tips and tricks to beat the simulation flaw. Some include T-intersection, putting gambling halls right next to train stations, putting trade depots next to highway, not zoning on major avenues. However, this game will be perfect, if we can use some realistic logic to solve problems.

[tnobles 38]

If you don't get a handle on it, it'll take your city with it. I Found how to empty the regional high-way      ;

Temporary fix of course. If they all leave, maybe I'll see where I messed up. Maybe the moral is, Make em' mad???

[12thDoctor 14]

 

My advice is, don't use bus depots. Probably isn't what you want to hear, but if you do, use park & rides and place them away from intersections (end of roads). Terminals work so long as you don't have bus stops. They will fix this eventually.

 

Streetcars work great, by the way.

 

Could you elaborate on the reasons? Is the bus system really that broken?

 

 

I think it has to do with this: http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/1duw5i/why_using_only_regional_bus_depots_is_ineffective/

 

For people having troubles with mass-transit who are only using regional bus depots, one thing I just recently figured out about buses (shuttles vs. regional) is that regional buses are far less effective when utilized alone (without also using shuttle buses) because Regional buses and other mass-transit vehicles that visit other cities have "Trade Pick-Up" destinations... meaning they will drop riders off at stops with the intention they transfer to another form of transit instead of choosing a destination where the riders want to go (i.e., residential, shopping, work, school, etc.)

I recently caught this reading one of the older dev blogs on Streetcars (which I had read before but must not have clicked or missed it): http://www.simcity.com/en_US/blog/article/simcity-update-6-streetcars (It's in parenthesis, directly above the third image in the post.)

 

(Streetcars do not use the “Trade Pick Up” destination, that’s only for buses, ferries & other vehicles that can go to other cities to pick up commuters and tourists.)

 

So if you have only regional buses, they reason they often seem to be quite ineffective (in my experience, at least) is because of this "Trade Pick-Up" destination that they use which Streetcars and Shuttle Buses do not... instead of picking up passengers with a certain type of destination and then going to a stop of that type, they often simply just end up moving people around the city.

 

This (somewhat) explains why I recently watched a regional bus stopping at a bus stop with a lot of sims waiting, picking them up, driving a few buildings down, do a U-turn, drive back past the bus stop, do another U-turn, and drop the sims back off at the same bus stop... where it just picked up more sims, do the exact same thing, drop them off at the same stop and then pick more up. I had to bulldoze the bus stop in order to end that infinite loop.

 

Of course, you can still have this issue if you have any bus stops in your city and a neighbor in the region has a regional bus depot. (And the London Double-Decker bus depot is also a regional bus depot, even though that isn't exactly clear from its description in the build menu.) This may not be as much of an issue if you have other forms of mass-transit in your city, as well. 

 

So, when it comes to mass-transit, I've come to the opinion that less is more when it comes to mass transit stops. I don't worry about having <100% coverage by mass transit and making sure every building is close proximity to a bus stop. Instead of maximizing the number of people utilizing mass transit, first I watch to ensure that buses are dropping people where they need to go by following sims who are waiting at bus stops... usually caused by having too many stops too closely placed in the same types of districts.

Then I make sure that sims aren't wasting time standing in line at a bus stop, giving up, then walking to the next bus stop or destination. (This especially creates problems for Sims trying to go to work because if they don't get there within a certain time-frame, they'll be fired and will just go home... if this is happening too much, it causes "Out of Money" problems.) And to do this, you can't really go by the "Average Wait Time" shown in the Mass Transit menu because that doesn't really tell you if have any ineffective or troublesome bus stops. So you can either zoom in and watch each bus stop individually in Cheetah but the problem is that certain stops may not have problems until certain times of day. So what I usually do is will open up the applicable mass-transit data filter, zoom in, click on and check individual stops' Average Wait Time and Number of Riders/Day. After a preliminary inspection of the stops, I'll go back through and look for ones that have really high wait times and low numbers of riders per day and shut them down or bulldoze them. (I'm not 100% positive that the "Numbers of Riders/Day" stats on individual stops account for passengers dropped off, but I don't think it does. Still, I wouldn't expect the number of sims being dropped off per day vs. the number who use the stop to get on would be too disproportional in most circumstances.) 

 

But I still haven't been able to come to a good decision for placement of stops RE:all on one side of the road or on both... because I don't believe Sims will cross the street unless there are crosswalks (which only appear at intersections or at points where road density changes)... but placing them on alternating sides usually leads to buses doing crazy/stupid routes and do U-turns to reach the next stop. And placing stops on both sides divides number of Sims waiting between the two stops but that, in turn, reduces the relative amount of priority buses will have on picking those sims up. I haven't yet really experimented with these differing strategies/methods in a controlled enough method to find the best strategy, though, and everyone seems to have different opinions... I just know from my experiences that most of the times I've ran into problems with "Out of Money!" "Where's the Shopping!," and "No Workers!", they were really symptoms of having far too many stops, too closely placed, and/or utilizing Regional Depots > Shuttle Depots... and shutting down and/or culling down my mass transit systems almost always seem to largely resolve those issues.

[tnobles 38]

I did test depots a little and got them to work at a reasonable riders and wait time but only with multiple depots. I did get figures that made sense to me, but at the expense of having too many buses that contributed to traffic congestion. Think I'll stick to streetcars. This was without streetcars, just seeing what buses would do. Five bus depots (strategically placed), 24 buses ea. or 120 buses. My next attempt will be not to max out buses. but keep minimum buses and stops. The Terminal with no stops works really well (tourists and commuters).

  Edited May 28, 2013 by tnobles  

[12thDoctor 14]

I did test depots a little and got them to work at a reasonable riders and wait time but only with multiple depots. I did get figures that made sense to me, but at the expense of having too many buses that contributed to traffic congestion. Think I'll stick to streetcars. This was without streetcars, just seeing what buses would do. Five bus depots, 24 buses ea. or 120 buses.

 

How many bus stops for those 120 buses? Did you only use shuttle bus depots or did were you using the regional bus depots as well? 

 

And did the city stay sustainable like this? You have nearly 25% of your population using buses and have a decent wait time and all, but in my experiences, having that many people utilizing buses like that usually ends up creating issues with "Out Of Money" after a few in-game days because of Sims not being dropped off in time or where they needed to go. 

 

But in it's current state, buses seem to be mostly ineffective past a certain point/population size. Streetcars seems far better are getting Sims to the places they want to go, far more quickly. Hopefully we'll see improvements to the way buses handle passengers and drop-offs in 5.0... 

[tnobles 38]

If I recall, around 40 bus stops and only shuttle buses. In this city I didn't have or place terminals. Terminals work great unless you place stops. That is, place them in a heave commercial, industrial and/or residential areas. If you have neighbors and they have terminals, you will get all their busses also, so, no stops and just terminals and the buses have to go there.

 

Only issues I had were traffic. No out of money (I think they fixed this) - absolutely. I think, if I had not added total buses to each depot (left them at three or maybe six), it may have been different (especially traffic wise).

 

If they do address the bus issue, I'll probably not use them because streetcars work so well. Well -- if they bugger with streetcars and fix buses in the future, that would suck, but for now, yes, streetcars!

[PatternRec 1]

I have a small region with five cities, four of which I've developed so far. The first one is the largest running at a big deficit but making more than enough producing computers from three factories. I recently got rid of all the bus stops and the depots. The only traffic issues I'm having are at the highway connection, which slowing down my ability to import processors so my computer production has slowed. I've drastically restructured the city and really balanced RCI. Now I'm trying to see how much I can pare down services to save cash. I never would have thought to remove the busses until I read this thread.

[PatternRec 1]

So after getting rid of my bus depots and bulldozing the bus stops in all four of my connected cities, I still have municipal busses driving around. There's only maybe six or eight in the whole region from what I can tell, but shouldn't the busses fo away if I've gotten rid of my bus system? Is this a bug? Is there a way to get rid of them?

[tnobles 38]

Before dosing you should turn off and wait until all buses are back in their garages (same with all services that have vehicles). But, even then there could be a few that just won't go back. Six or eight shouldn't interfere too much and may possibly just go away after a while.

[PatternRec 1]

Before dosing you should turn off and wait until all buses are back in their garages (same with all services that have vehicles). But, even then there could be a few that just won't go back. Six or eight shouldn't interfere too much and may possibly just go away after a while.

 

I'll remember that for next time. The perfectionist in me wants to start a whole new region just to get away from the wayward busses, Luckily my lazier part that doesn't want to start from scratch has over-ridden that compulsion. Also, having a city with quite a few millions means I'm having fun completely redoing whole neighborhoods as I get a better understanding of the dynamics. 

 

Thanks again for the help tom.

[tnobles 38]

@ The perfectionist in me wants to start a whole new region...

 

Been there and done that a few times.

[PatternRec 1]

@ The perfectionist in me wants to start a whole new region...

 

Been there and done that a few times.

 

I've done it once or twice myself. Must... resist... urge....