Residential "Pyramid"

[estevesbk 4]

So, following some very good posts from jacksunny and A Nonny Moose at this thread: To avoid being too off-topic, I've thought it was best to create a new thread.

As far as I undestrand, we are supposed to limit R$$$ and also have at least some amount of R$ to have a well-balanced city.

The R$ seems to be needed to attract young people. Limiting R$$$ to avoid commute time and lack of jobs issues.

My first question: Is it really a "pyramid"? I like a lot of R$$, do I really need to have less R$$ than R$?

Second question: How to limit R$$$? Taxes? How much?

Third question: How to keep R$?

1. Bulldozing some R$$ buildings?

2. Placing a zone without education reach?

3. In case of number 2, could I offer health care on this zone?

Last Question: If I'm depeding solely on a single city and not on sharing region's demands, how much of each do you recommend on having?

R$$$ - ? %

R$$ - ? %

R$ - ? %

Thanks in advance!

Edit: Ok, just one more: With SPAM, can I have virtually no I-D and still maintain a decent non-educated R$ population?

  Edited September 20, 2012 by estevesbk  

[jacksunny 741]

1. No. As I mentioned before, you do however need to have at least some R$ so young people will come to your city. Check your "Population by Age" graph every once in a while to see if you need more.

2. You don't really need to adjust taxes in the beginning of the game seeing as it is quite difficult to get R$$$ anyway. If you find that the demand is starting to go above what you want it to be, raising taxes is a suitable solution. Be very careful though, raise the taxes only a little bit at a time. Raising them too much may cause the demand to drop completely.

3. Just keep services to a minimum. Don't zone over these zones with R$$. You could even make some buildings historical to ensure they are not destroyed.

4. R$ - 50%

R$$ - 30%

R$$$ - 20%

[estevesbk 4]

Thanks! =)

After searching the Forums I've seen many similar threads with people having their cities "sinking" and they don't know why... Perhaps this thread could be linked when any of these cases appears again? It was made to discuss the problem itself not concerning a specific situation.

What I'm still confused is... What makes a city stop growing and abandonment due to lack of jobs with no other apparent reason: (low demand, cap, lack of I and C zones, commute time, etc.)

- Is the problem the AGE?

- Or is the problem the lack of R$?

I know that if you attract new people they will begin with R$ and then the average age will push back towards left on the graphic... Then they will educate, etc. But what about keeping an old population but with a decent amount R$? Maybe even give full health care but not education for a zone with R$ only?

- Will the city experience the same problem because of lack of young people, regardless of having more R$?

If not and the problem is solved, we could point out that:

- Always when you have too few R$, the "Population by Age" graphic will point towards right.

- But not always when the "Population by Age" graphic point towards right you have too few R$.

Then the question continues: Younger people begin being R$. But is the problem the age itself or the amount of R$?

  Edited September 20, 2012 by estevesbk  

[JJogurt 18]

There is no fixed pyramid structure. It's always different from city to city, and depends on the type of your city's employers. For example, at the start of the region all your jobs are for R$ sims, and as the city improves so does the job structure.

What you shouldn't forget is that every workplace in the game also requires a few R$ sims. Even I-HT and CO$$$ require a small percent of R$ sims, so you can't avoid having some of them in your cities. You should never overtax R$, and you should always zone for them when demand is up.

I've found that R$$ and especially R$$$ prefer to sick to low density homes. So when I zone some medium or high density residential, chances are it will stay R$. And that's how most of my R$ sims live, in tenement ghettos close to industrial zones.

  Edited September 20, 2012 by JJogurt  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

There really is not Residential pyramid. There is, however, a business pyramid: the standard American corporate model. The programmers that wrote this game were Silicon Valley residents and like all good authors, the wrote about what they knew. The game is parochially U.S. South West (California). The number of people employed in a CO$$$ building follows this model with very few R$$$. If you stop thinking about all those simoleon signs and start thinking about jobs and positional hierarchy, you will be better off.

The Peter Principle applies. "In any hierarchy an individual will rise to the level of his incompetence."

[estevesbk 4]

There is no fixed pyramid structure. It's always different from city to city, and depends on the type of your city's employers. For example, at the start of the region all your jobs are for R$ sims, and as the city improves so does the job structure.

What you shouldn't forget is that every workplace in the game also requires a few R$ sims. Even I-HT and CO$$$ require a small percent of R$ sims, so you can't avoid having some of them in your cities. You should never overtax R$, and you should always zone for them when demand is up.

I've found that R$$ and especially R$$$ prefer to sick to low density homes. So when I zone some medium or high density residential, chances are it will stay R$. And that's how most of my R$ sims live, in tenement ghettos close to industrial zones.

Thanks, very interesting. I am having problems for R$$ to growing from low to medium-density zones. Besides the basics - demand, desirability, education, health, police and fire and low commute time - they seem to require lots of parks to grow from low to medium density... Eventually I can "push" some development but at the cost of many parks being placed for a too small zone. Even a flower garden and a playground for each 6 tiles may not be sufficient.

Maybe it's the standard behavior, or maybe it's lack of R$.

There really is not Residential pyramid. There is, however, a business pyramid: the standard American corporate model. The programmers that wrote this game were Silicon Valley residents and like all good authors, the wrote about what they knew. The game is parochially U.S. South West (California). The number of people employed in a CO$$$ building follows this model with very few R$$$. If you stop thinking about all those simoleon signs and start thinking about jobs and positional hierarchy, you will be better off.

The Peter Principle applies. "In any hierarchy an individual will rise to the level of his incompetence."

I understand that in all countries the number or proportion of "rich" people are few... But that's not true about lower and middle class. They seem to differ greatly. There are countries with much more "R$" than "R$$" and others with much more "R$$" than "R$". I don't know how is California model, neither the proportion that there is in this specific state of low-class to middle-class people. Also, we need to consider that it was 10 years ago. Here in my country, some datas suggest that the number of middle-class people are increasing in proportion to the number of low-class people.

I know that R$ can't be and neither should be "avoided". But it's good to know if they need to represent 50% of a city's population to keep it running or if you are able to keep about 70% of R$$ and just 15% of R$ and R$$$.

In other words, it's clear and logic that R$$$ should represent just a little of the total city's population. In any corporation, we have just a few "bosses". But the proportion of R$$ to R$ is still a little "obscure"... How many people cleaning toilets and how many people in better (R$$) jobs at the same building?

  Edited September 20, 2012 by estevesbk  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, you see if you look at a city as an orchestra, you can look at the Conductor and the concertmaster as R$$$, the principal of each section as R$$ and the rest of the players as R$. Not everyone gets to play solos and someone has to pump air through the tuba. Yes?

[arozarker12 51]

With me being a windbag, I suppose I would be playing that tuba! LOL! Couldn't resist that, but it is a good way to look at it I think Nonny! Makes more sense to me than any other way of trying to explain it.

[estevesbk 4]

So, basically, R$ shoud always be more than R$$ in a city or region and that's it?

  Edited September 20, 2012 by estevesbk  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Not always. It depends on the maturity of your city, the average age, and the population by age. You want a nice bell curve. If it is skewed to the right you have the possibility of the population ageing out and dying off.

It also depends on populations in the region connected to your city. Overall you need to have enough grintz to collect garbage, run copiers and be bicycle messengers, etc. You also need young families to grow up, get educated and progress up the wealth ladder. I try to keep a goodly portion of CS$ jobs around, and some good R$ MURBs and tenements.

If you have some I-D tenements are easy. Put some high-density 4 x 2 and 4 x 4 right across the road from it. For these to build, you have to have enough R$ demand and be about 20 years into the city. If you want to keep them, make them historical. If you want the residents to grow, move to other parts of the city, and be replaced by new people, make sure they have schools and health plans.

[Duvad 26]

I am sceptical on the whole 'dying out' deal. I've so many times let my 150 year old city run untouched on cheetah for 10, 20, 30 years with no change to the population or commercial jobs count, just that the graph skews immensely to the right. It appears (but I have no idea of the coding/technical aspect of this) as if Sims live on at 90 years of age forever. Looking at the res. average age data view, the very blue areas stay very blue over the 30 years, although I have not taken screenshots of before and after to see if they changed. I hope I am 100% wrong on this, let me know.

Does the model in the game account for Sims being born, lowering the average age of homes? Or do Sims only start young/'born' if they move in to a new home?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

If you look at the population by age graph it is clear that Sims are born (arrive), live, retire, and die. Sometime when running your Cheetah sprints, watch the population by age graph.

[estevesbk 4]

Thanks A Nonny Moose, and what if all the spots of the city are already occupied, how to keep the population young? I'm not sure if the right thing is to bulldoze R$ tenements outside the education zone, or R$$ buildings inside the education zone?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Urban renewal is in the eye of the beholder (player). Don't knock down buildings to try to get new R$, the buildings don't generate the Sims. Make the game more attractive to R$ by whatever means is necessary. Often it takes low level jobs to attract them, so think about CS$ and I-D jobs. This means zoning single occupancy C and/or medium density I. Look after the right jobs and the Sims will look after themselves.

  Edited September 21, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[estevesbk 4]

^

Thanks! But then if I have enough R$, I will always have enough young people, no matter how much time it passes without new R$?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

But remember, R$ go to school and become R$$ and later with experience become R$$$, but only some of them. You need an influx of R$ either by natural growth or immigration.

[estevesbk 4]

Thanks A Noony Moose! =)

[estevesbk 4]

So, I've made a new city in the Gaunlet Island's Region. At the year 40, here's the situation:

I've created a low-wealth residential district surrounded by SPAM farms (could surround with I-D and make them historial but I don't like pollution) and with rail connection to the rest of the city. I've made all the buildings historical. There's a Hospital and an Elementary School providing civics. At the south, there's R$$/R$$$, C$$/C$$$ and I-M/I-HT:

Here's my Population by Age graphic:

Here's my demand:

Now, I've ran 30 years without changing anything by myself. Now, look what happens to the Population by Age:

As you can see, the proportion for R$ and R$$ has gone steady:

------------

Now my question: Let's suppose I've ran out of space for new zones. How should I proceed to make the population young again? Bulldozing the R$ buildings? And have I done everything right or did I provide too many or too few civcs for the lower class?

Thanks in advance for any replies!

  Edited September 22, 2012 by estevesbk  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

From your population by age graph, you are ageing out already. If you need new low density residential, zone it on some of the farm land. Use 1 x 1 lots.