City with no CS$

[Ro-Bo 183]

I start a new region & now playing 4 cities ( 2 medium, 2 small ). The main (medium) city has no industries & farm but connected to 2 cities each with ID+IM only & Ag only.

When the main city reaches 61k residents, I start other (small) city targeting to get only R$+R$$ & a few shops. When the small city reaches 23k residents, all CS$ starts to turn into C$$/C$$$ in both cities.

The problem is R$ hi-rise in my main city starts to get no job zots & If I run it any further, eventually there will be no more CS$.

Should I just ignore this & hoping that R$ will go work at C$$/C$$$ or the industries/farm cities? Could a city without CS$ grows?

Or should I demolish & tax out C$$/C$$$ to get CS$ back?

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and I found this funny bug, (I've fix this, so this is just a FYI)

Sims using his shop as his home.

Shops in the yellow box all do this. This still persist even when these shops grow into bigger ones (18 months later). These are medium density C zone that used to be low density R$$/R$$$ zone.

*SC4+RH // 1,1,640 // no NAM,CAM ect. (I-HT fix, opera house fix & crime doesnt pay only)

  Edited June 8, 2012 by Ro-Bo  

[Zyphyr Flux 0]

I had that happen once. I made a city that was all CS$. made all the plots 2wx4d and they were all flea markets looked weird from the region view

Z

[Nielsen 10]

From my experience, R$ is capable of getting jobs at C$$. Can you limit the appereace of C$$ through high tax levels?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

A C property that behaves like an R is a new thing to me. It is something I have wanted for some time, because it is a normal thing for small businesses to have apartments or flats over them. Are these lots from the STEX??

[Ro-Bo 183]

From my experience, R$ is capable of getting jobs at C$$. Can you limit the appereace of C$$ through high tax levels?

I know but these loss of C$ jobs just too rapid that 2 of my hi-rise abandoned before they get new jobs. I'll try zoning new low density C without water supply later. Hope that will keep out those greedy C$$/C$$$.

A C property that behaves like an R is a new thing to me. It is something I have wanted for some time, because it is a normal thing for small businesses to have apartments or flats over them. Are these lots from the STEX??

Sadly, NO. I don't have any custom content. This maybe because of some bug in my files. That zone at first was a low density R, I rezone it with medium density C and few months later, these hybrids appeared. After dezoning & then rezone, they no longer do that.

  Edited June 8, 2012 by Ro-Bo  

[Haljackey 17,404]

What I do to avoid this problem is I tax the crap out of C$ and R$. Thus I get little low wealth commercial and residential development and a lot more higher class residences and stores/offices.

[Mithrik 562]

Ah yes, I just had this bug last week. Those hybrids don't seem last forever, because it looks to me like problem from the pathfinding. About some months (don't remember how much, maybe 18-24), the shops restore it's properties as commercial buildings and stop acting like houses.

Up to what I know, it only happens to R$ when rezoned to commercial and sometime industrial. I say industrial because when I got this bug (in a small town) I zoned for a small 1x2 industrial so I could get a little industrial jobs for the town, and it was caught up in the bug too, but in matter a few simulator days the routes corrected.

I use about 1GB of plugins, but the only one that I share with you is the opera house fix, and I doubt that's the cause, and therefore my theory of the pathfinding.

It's an interesting bug, and maybe someone should delve into it.

[cogeo 960]

A long post, hope you are not getting bored reading it!

First off, the wealth-level breakdown of the workforce working in each building-type is shown here (Census Drives table). CO$$$ and I-HT employ a very small number of R$ sims. CO$$ on the other hand employs 40% R$ sims, but these must be of a relatively high EQ level.

I have always been suggesting satisfying completely (exhausting) all types of commercial demand (even CS$) before zoning for more industry. CS$ is better than I-D, as it doesn't pollute, consumes very little power and water and requires less space. Commute is also generally shorter, and CS$ can be upgraded to any other C development, especially if the spot is good. This however, makes it somewhat hard to keep it in your city, as it is easily replaced by higher-wealth buildings (employing fewer R$ sims), and the result may be negative R$ demand or no-job zots. But there is an easy solution for this, simply zone more commercial, and you will soon get more CS$ development, if you have demand. In any case, CS$ should not be snubbed, it provides employment for your R$ sims. Actually I'm developing a region without industry or farms, only commercial (and of course civics) and zero start-up funds (with only a single $1000 loan allowed, which has to be repayed in three years - made special mods for the zero funds and the loan), and the interesting thing is that this indeed works ( is the link, if you are interested). Of course, in such a setting (with fewer employment opportunities) having no CS$ is not really an option, but even in regions with lots of industry, why throw away CS$?

If you are concerned about space, you can pick a small area (of course not along your busiest avenue - keep this space for CO$$$), and try to grow the most packed form of CS$ there. I mean those small shops, employing 143-173 sims (depending on the tileset). They require high-density zoning and grow on stage 6-8 1x3 lots, and stage 4-5 1x2 lots (the stages again depend on the tileset - use the reader's Navigator tool to get a listing of all available Maxis lots). The simulator won't give you such development if you don't have some few buildings of lower growth-stages, so you should keep a couple of Bob's Grease Pit in your city as well. Then, (if you have a high positive CS$ demand, ie close to "2000" in the graph - the first line), do this:
- Stop your city, move and zoom to the desired area, and save.
- Zone a 1x3 high-density C zone.
- Run your city for a game-month or so at slow speed.
- If you didn't get any development or you got sth you don't want, exit to region without saving and try again.
- If you get the buildind you wanted, mark it as historical (so as to prevent it from being "upgraded") and save.
Please note that I suggested zoning AFTER saving, so that if for some reason it is not possible to get the desired development there, you can exit without having to dezone or bulldoze anyhting.

Now it may be possible that despite high demand and after several tries you can't get the building you wanted, especially if the road has low traffic (you may getting no development or getting another... Bob's Grease Pit). In such a case you can use the trees trick, ie modify the above procedure as follows:
- After zoning, plant trees (I recommend the Maxis Oaks) IN the zone, for a cost of ca $50-$100 (ie some 16 to 33 trees - keep the mouse button down and drag the cursor on the lot). This results in a temporary desirability boost.
- Run the city at slow speed.
- If you got any development, stop and check.
- If you didn't get the desired building, exit to region and try again, maybe with fewer or more trees, eg if you are getting a CS$$$ boutique try planting fewer trees. Don't worry about the trees, the developing lot will chop them off!
- Often you may be getting only CO$$$ and CS$$$ buildings, somehow taking priority over CS$. In this case you may have to grow CO$$$ or CS$$$ first, maybe somewhere else, until the CO$$$ or CS$$$ demand is exhausted (the tree-planting trick can be used here as well).

I use this technique extensively, and get the development I want where I want. Here are some pics:


A R$$ area.


A R$$$ area (in another city). All those villas and palazzos are about to be upgraded to condos.


My commercial area (damn simcity should have a better collection of buildings).


The CS$ area. Please note that the buildings at the back row are "Lenz Electronic Remainders" (Euro tileset, 143 jobs, stage-5 1x3), while the building at the front row is "Small Shops" (Houston tileset, 173 jobs, stage-5 1x3 again). The Chicago and New York buildings offer 155 and 161 jobs respectively, and grow on stage-4 1x3 zones. The 1x2 lots (same buildings) are stage-6 to 8. The simulator, depending on the demand level, the city's population and stage breakdown of the existing development may or may not be giving you a certain lot. In such a case you may have to temporarily (a few gamedays, until the lot starts developing) change the tileset to another one and/or try developing them in another area. For example in one case I couldn't get the Houston building but I could get the Euro one (fewer jobs, same stage), which I didn't want. This was definitely due to lower-than-required demand. But I could get the Chicago one too, so I grew it somewhere else (started developing anothe CS$ area). Architecturally, I find those buildings affecting but not really determining the city's style (they are small anyway). And as the building collection is poor (only ONE building for each tileset) you may most probably want to get all four of them, otherwise it will be very repetitive.

Please note that the tree-planting trick can be used to upgrade existing lots as well (higher wealth level or higher growth stage). Just plant the trees in the developed lot. This is much harder, because many lots are almost fully covered by the building or the props. In such a case switch to zones view and drag the cursor slowly all over the lot - there may be quite a few small empty spots, especially along the lot's border, and at the front or the back of the lot. Again, don't save if you don't get the desired development, otherwise you will end up with an unsightly lot, with trees planted at the most unsuitable places, eg in the parking lot or in front of the buildig, and then you won't be able to plant more later, as with all those planted trees it will most probably be fully occupied.

For the same purpose, I have made a small 1x1 (cheaty) park lot (with extreme desirability effects and zero plop/bulldoze costs. I plop it temporarily next to the lot I wish to develop or upgrade, to take advantage of the "transient aura effect" (desirability gets a boost for a couple of months or so), and as soon as the lot starts developing I bulldoze it. I could make it available to you. If you are interested send me a PM.
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The no-job zots however, may be due to sims not being able to reach their workplaces within a set time limit. Did you check your traffic data? The default (SC4/RH) network capacities are very low, and those R$ hirises may be just clogging them. So my suggestion is install NAM. As for CAM, many players like it, and it fixes quite a few things, but I'm not using it (although ), because I would need to download and install specially-made custom content, while the vast majority of custom content on the STEX and the LEX is not made for CAM (CAMeLots and CAMpatible Lots). Also, I strongly recommend against installing CAM to continue playing a region started without CAM, as CAM changes the growth stages of many ingame lots, and this may trouble the development simulators. CAM should only be used for new regions.

As for the development mix, beware about the R$/R$$-only city. Health and education expenses can easily turn your budget red, especially if you grow hirises (the taxes per occupant they pay is proportionately far lower, while you will have to pay increased - proportionately to the population - health and education expenses). In such a case zone more low-density zones (esp R$$) and/or grow more CS$$/CS$$$ and (why not) R$$$. A small villa pays $14 or $20 per month (at 9%), while CS$$ and especially CS$$$ pay incredibly high taxes (but you need to bring in more R$$/R$$$ residents first, to get the CS$$/CS$$$ demand). CO$$/CO$$$ pay very little taxes, but you still need them (to get the R$$ and R$$$ residents).

About the I-HT bug, did you just install the fix? Take a look

Hope this helps.

[Ro-Bo 183]

About some months (don't remember how much, maybe 18-24), the shops restore it's properties as commercial buildings and stop acting like houses.

About 18 months later...

It did function as C property but you can see it still a R-C hybrid. (I rezoned this already & no longer can experimenting with this bug. Putting this in the back burner...)

A long post, hope you are not getting bored reading it!

Long post = lots of information = a good thing! I'll keep a copy of your post for future ref./for experimenting

Demand is high for all C (between 2000 ~ 4000). I guess since $$$ takes priority, they get the 1st dibs even when I zone away from traffic. Later, I'll put high tax on C$$/C$$$ & follow your solution. ( I totally forget about "Make Historical").

About the extreme desirability parking lot, I can make it with Lot Editor, right? I think I'll put aside any cheaty solution for now.

My commute time is reaaaally high right off the bat. The lowest would be around 70 ( just for a several months) and now climbing past 90. My roads & avenues are still in the green, but near hi-rise, bus stations are 300% usage & subways are yellowing. How much do these congested public transport affect my city?

I'm thinking of getting NAM. From cursory reading, I get that NAM is like the controller. Is the NAM v30 include the new tileset/puzzle pieces or they have to be downloaded separately like RHW,NWM ect. ?

As for the R$/R$$-only city, I'm planning to zone only up to medium density & it is the smallest city size (64x64). I'm making it a housing for 2 small neighbouring dirty/manufacturing only city. So for education, I'm gonna put just elementary school.

About the I-HT bug, did you just install the fix?

Yup.