Subway commute time (NAM)

[Bouben 0]

Hello,

I have this problem.

I have a city with population of 12 000. I have quite well constructed roads and avenues, some of them rather overloaded though. Nevertheless, commute time was around 2 minutes even with the overloaded roads. Now I've constructed a subway line (very simple, practical and not too long). Since the construction, my commute time has been increasing up to 20 minutes. It is more than clear that the subway line is increasing the commute time for some reason. The subway and its stations are loaded only up to 30% of their capacity so there should be no problem at all.

My question is: Is this a proper behaviour?

If so, can anybody, please, explain to me how this system works?

I supposed the effect should be exactly the opposite - less of commute time.

Thank you very much!

edit: I have a latest version of NAM

  Edited April 14, 2011 by Bouben  

[Urbanator 7]

Hi Bouben. My first thought on this: Could the commuters now be travelling further now that the subway system exists? Perhaps the jobs have been redistributed, forcing the sims to travel further - has anything else changed since the subway was built?

[Bouben 0]

Hello,

only changes I am aware of are couple of higher buildings ($$ and $$$ up to 450 people each) and like four new industry buildings. But nothing I would call a significant redistribution of things. It simply seems as if the subway system was the only reason of those increasing commute time values. I am pretty sure that if I destroyed the whole subway system the commute time would decrease to its previous values. But I am not an expert on the in-game mechanics.

The first thing I was thinking about was that NAM modders somehow forgot to change the subway values while changing those for the rest of types of networks.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Did I see that your pop is only 12,000? You surely don't need a subway. Do a backup of your city, and try taking it out. If you need to widen a few roads, a little urban redevelopment won't hurt.

[Mithrik 562]

A Nonny Moose is right, and to let you know, the subway should only be used for more then 50K of population at the minimum, otherwise it will surely not sustain by itself.

[iwillmiss 0]

I think the same with nanny moose too

[z1 566]

Tropod noticed years ago that rapid transit often increases commute time as shown on the graph, rather than decreasing it. No one knows why; it appears to be a game bug. This is one of the reasons that Tropod recommended ignoring the commute time graph, a recommendation that I strongly second. Use the Route Query Tool instead.

[Bouben 0]

Tropod noticed years ago that rapid transit often increases commute time as shown on the graph, rather than decreasing it. No one knows why; it appears to be a game bug. This is one of the reasons that Tropod recommended ignoring the commute time graph, a recommendation that I strongly second. Use the Route Query Tool instead.

But how to read the Route Query Tool to be really efficient? Thanks!

And the rest of you guys, thank you very much for your answers! Great tips!

Did I see that your pop is only 12,000? You surely don't need a subway. Do a backup of your city, and try taking it out. If you need to widen a few roads, a little urban redevelopment won't hurt.

Would you mind to share a little more in more details? Some tips on overloaded avenues? Thanks!

  Edited April 14, 2011 by Bouben  

[z1 566]

But how to read the Route Query Tool to be really efficient? Thanks!

Generally, just hovering it over a network will give you that network's usage; it works in the subway view, too. This will give you a very quick and precise idea of how much your Sims are using your nice new subway. For a more global view of network usage, the Traffic Volume Data View is indispensable.

The second major use of the Route Query Tool is to click on some point on a network, and then a series of route arrows will appear, showing the routes of all Sims passing through that point. This is very useful in seeing where network usage is coming from (and going to). For example, if there are Sims that you expected to be taking the subway but aren't, adding a bus stop or two along the way may fix that situation.

You can also click the Route Query Tool on a residence, which will show you the routes all the Sims in that residence are taking to work. Or click it on a business to find out where all the Sims working there came from. Notice that the totals shown by the Route Query Tool when hovered over buildings count each section of a trip that uses a different travel type, so some Sims may be counted more than once here.

[Bouben 0]

But how to read the Route Query Tool to be really efficient? Thanks!

Generally, just hovering it over a network will give you that network's usage; it works in the subway view, too. This will give you a very quick and precise idea of how much your Sims are using your nice new subway. For a more global view of network usage, the Traffic Volume Data View is indispensable.

The second major use of the Route Query Tool is to click on some point on a network, and then a series of route arrows will appear, showing the routes of all Sims passing through that point. This is very useful in seeing where network usage is coming from (and going to). For example, if there are Sims that you expected to be taking the subway but aren't, adding a bus stop or two along the way may fix that situation.

You can also click the Route Query Tool on a residence, which will show you the routes all the Sims in that residence are taking to work. Or click it on a business to find out where all the Sims working there came from. Notice that the totals shown by the Route Query Tool when hovered over buildings count each section of a trip that uses a different travel type, so some Sims may be counted more than once here.

All right. That is something I already know but should have taken it more seriously, I suppose. Will examine it more in-depth. Thank you!

[aparrot7 82]

Like others had said, the commute time graph is extremly unreliable. It is horrible because you dont know the unit of measure ment and when it reaches a certian point, it will change. For example if you had a realy long traffic commute over 120 min, the graph will automaticly change to a different format in order to display the information, the same for lower values, making this a very complicated number to determine. You also dont realy need a subway, 12,000 is a small number, unless your zones of work are rather far from your residents. It may also be a fact that people are not hopping into their car from home, but in stead taking a steady walk to the nearest subway, which could be annother cause. My advice is to ignore the graph, and watch the route query and commute times with each house or region/neighborboods you established. As long as there is no suitcase, there is nothing much to realy worry about.

[Bouben 0]

Like others had said, the commute time graph is extremly unreliable. It is horrible because you dont know the unit of measure ment and when it reaches a certian point, it will change. For example if you had a realy long traffic commute over 120 min, the graph will automaticly change to a different format in order to display the information, the same for lower values, making this a very complicated number to determine. You also dont realy need a subway, 12,000 is a small number, unless your zones of work are rather far from your residents. It may also be a fact that people are not hopping into their car from home, but in stead taking a steady walk to the nearest subway, which could be annother cause. My advice is to ignore the graph, and watch the route query and commute times with each house or region/neighborboods you established. As long as there is no suitcase, there is nothing much to realy worry about.

Well, what does it exactly mean "zones of work are rather far from your residents"? Could it be said in number of tiles for example? How to decide what is far and what is not in SC4?

And yes, there is a reasonable amount of people in my city commuting to a neighbourhood city. I should have mention it at the very beginning. It was the main reason I've decided to build a subway system. The second one were overloaded one-way roads and avenues. Also, I have found out the $$$ class is more likely to develop without dilapidation when able to use the subway. If I do something wrong please tell me.

  Edited April 14, 2011 by Bouben  

[z1 566]

Like others had said, the commute time graph is extremely unreliable. It is horrible because you dont know the unit of measurement...

The unit of measurement is always in minutes if you have the NAM installed. If you don't, it's 25 times the actual number of minutes.

However, it is extremely unreliable. Additional traffic to neighboring cities also increases the commute time shown on the graph more than it should.

  Edited April 15, 2011 by z1  

[Urbanator 7]

I find that adding bus stops to take residents to the main mass transit network (until the population density becomes more of an issue) that the sims generally cease complaining about commute times. Once the population gets big enough I usually extend the mass transit network closer to the residential areas - usually trams as they are much more convenient when accommodating stations in an existing layout. I use the resident info to ascertain whether the network is working rather than the commute graph because the graph is far too general to gain real insight into the traffic function.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

There are several things you can do with an overloaded avenue, but you will need the NWM. This won't work for short stretches as you need a 3 x 2 transition piece at each end as well as a starter piece. You can replace an AVE-4 (NWM terminology for a Maxis avenue) with a MAVE-6. This may require some adjustments of intersections as this product is in its first release, but you can get it to work. Remember to drag intersecting streets and roads all the way across the lanes or you will get some funny turns.

Another way to relieve an AVE-4 is to be bloody and add a set of service roads on both sides. This will make a lot of redevelopment along the avenue. If you are so inclined, they can be One Way Roads (OWR) of various capabilities. If you do this, you are setting up collector lanes, which may not be the greatest in your CBD.

An overloaded Avenue can also be replaced by a ground highway, with appropriate disturbances. However, remember that you can't have any buildings facing on a highway.

Alternatively, you can have a "next road over" solution by beefing up the roads behind the avenue on either side without disturbing the buildings, giving you some alternate routes. You may find it advantageous to make these OWRs.

I can't imagine an overloaded AVE-4 with only 12.000 population.

Another alternative is GLR down the center of your AVE-4.

When the NWM first came out, I created an experimental city that had a CBD with a MAVE-6 and residential pods at one end and industrial pods at the other. As population built, I had to add a MAVE-4 to relieve the traffic between the CDB and the industrial pod. I also put in a ring road around the CBD to take some of the strain of through traffic off the downtown. It was crazy, and I eventually discovered I had created a commuter loop between this tile and two adjacent ones, that I eventually fixed. So, if you are having an overloaded avenue at your present level, be sure all the traffic is coming from the one tile.