Bus Lane mod

[6underground 11]

This is really looking very promising, and we are all going at such speed, i wouldn't be at all suprised if we have this done in an alpha pretty soon.. Or is that just me being optomistic :-p

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

well we are steaming through the textures

 

qurlix is very fast at creating the pathfinding! [:0] i just don't know how long other parts will take - but we surely have made a lot of progress in such a short space of time! so hopefully it isn't just that you're being optimistic!

 

SA: here is a clearer diagram of how i'd like it too look other than the layout - the cycle lanes are a little too wide - they need to be like in the following diagram

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//NEWBIKEEXAMPLE.jpg align=baseline>

don't worry about the sidewalks for now they will be changed! the gap in the cycle lane is for where there will be a pedestrian pathway crossing through it 

 

APOLOGIES FOR AN ERROR IN THE ABOVE DIAGRAM - the lane divider-lines should be dashed lines both between the two cycle lane paths, and between the single cycle lane and road. edging lines should be solid like the road's.

 

the dashed lines should be longer than the roads and a lot less spaced out - see pg3.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

check it out - most of the textures together..

 

http://home.btconnect.com/SMD/simcityfiles/ALL1.png align=baseline>

http://home.btconnect.com/SMD/simcityfiles/ALL2.png align=baseline>

[Tennismaster1 1]

that looks awsome! but where is the panited white bus lane sign on the road?

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

you will have to plop that bus lane sign on after it's what'll block cars using the bus lanes!

does anyone know much about props?? or know of someone with the knowledge that i could talk to about them?? i've noticed smoncrie hasn't posted for a little while so i'm not sure if he's about or not.. all i want to know is if we can have props on puzzle pieces which change, along with the texture, according to wealth??

and secondly, can we have custom streetlamps and traffic lights to the same effect?

[GingerBlokey 30]

Hi this project looks great. I have made a UK style bus stop and bus stop sign. If you want I will email the gmax files.



Back windows are transparent

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Looks great, but unfortunately, the graphics you've got on the sign won't show up clearly, so it's best to keep it as simple as possible. Usually, a white sign will do.

Ed, any news on precisely what you need me to do? I have the feeling the intersection looks a bit messy - a simple Tee intersection usually does the trick.

Uh, what else do I need to mention? Ah, the way the bus lane ends. It's a bit abrupt, maybe make it similar to the start? Oh, and will this allow us to create dedicated transit lanes? By that, I mean, will it allow us to have two-way bus lanes?

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

*cough* for the cycleways??

well - we need them added to a second and third copy of all existing textures -- 1) on-sidewalk two-way version -- and 2) on-road cycle lane version..

along with various pieces to connect them up (akin to my last diagram - which represents a cycleway junction between i) one-way on-road cycle lane, ii) off-road two-way cyleway, and iii) on-sidewalk two-way cycleway...

however - you don't have a copy of final textures. so i would have to place your created cycle-lanes portion over my copies of the textures..... or, post all the textures..

as for the other thing i asked you and 6u about yesterday..

i'm still waiting for an answer on that because until i know if the puzzle pieces CAN have wealth-dependant props/textures, there's no point me asking you to give your time for things which might not even be possible

the bus lane ending: that's actually how it is over here, so i was just going for realism really!

when it comes to creating right-hand versions and other nations's versions i would again personally go for most realistic design if possible

two-way bus lanes? dya mean bus-only roads etc.? almost any configuration will be possible so long as we are prepated to make the necessary puzzle pieces!!....

the fact is though, we already have bus-only roads (using the H.O.V. lot to block other traffic) but if we want it to look different to a normal road, we can create puzzle-pieces for that. the only restriction is that when there are lanes desegnated for one type of vehicle - the split between the restricted and standard lanes HAS to be along the split between puzzle piece tiles

GingerBlokeythe bus stop does look good - have you seen how it looks in-game at all?

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

its only photoshopped i know - but just thought i'd show the kinda end result (puzzle pieces & props) i'd be more than happy to see with this mod

plus extra wealth-orientated props/streetlights/sidewalk textures ( should it turn out to be possible )

 

street-signs/traffic-lights and such would be fixed for all wealths (and wouldn't change)

[Shadow Assassin 336]

I would personally rather that the side is grass, not all pavement... But the cycleway's fine.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

yeah i'm going to modify the off-road parts of the textures - the entirely pavement thing is just a base to work with

but what cycleway...? that green IS the grass sorry if it turns out we can have different wealths textures & props then my idea (for textures, not props) is this: low-wealth = just pavement... medium wealth = little bit of grass, and pavement... high wealth = lots of grass areas, pavement... then the props will also represent the wealth; with more nicer props for the more wealthy

but just so you know - what i asked if you could do (regarding props) is definitely on hold as i have now spoken to smoncrie about it and it looks likely we would be able to have wealth-dependant features but itd be better to wait until it is definite as props are just an added extra i'm going to be looking into how props work myself to see if i can learn.... but i would also like to learn how to make the puzzle-pieces

[Tennismaster1 1]

looks like your makeing exellent progrees! when do you think the mod will be completed?

[6underground 11]

About those puzzle pieces has anyone got back too you bout them Ed? Did froggie help out at all, i wasn't sure if he knew the procedure, but he would definetly know who too contact.

 

about those two lane bus lanes, Is that really a good idea? i mean i've never seen a dual bus only lane before, I know i only talk for Wales really, but i don't think ive seen two lane bus-ways even in my travels in England.,i guess im just speaking from realism more than anything else.

 

Ohh, no-one mentioned about the use of a bay area bus stop, that i made for New Rhodesia being implemented it's o the page before. Yay or Nay?

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

frogface wasn't sure but didn't think it was possible for props and textures to change with wealth on puzzle pieces; but i have heard from smoncrie already now about making textures and props change on puzzle-pieces according to wealth -- and he is actually currently looking into a way of doing this with avenue puzzle-pieces - and so if succesful then the same technique can be used for this! so those props i asked you about is on-hold for now until we know for sure!

about the props/puzzle-pieces. i don't have any idea about making the puzzle pieces myself still so i would need to PM someone about that (possibly qurlix, T7T or tropod). i know qurlix said he would help with making puzzle-pieces along with the paths but its better if more than one person can work on them - i don't want to only rely on others i'd prefer to learn and put in some of the work myself too

i think the bus lay-by version of a bus stop should be included we can have both versions (one with, one without)

plus i will definitely include bi-lingual versions for you and other welshies i will just need to make a duplicate version of any texture that had english on it; no point making different DAT plugin files for such a subtle difference - i think just making welsh and english versions of the necessary pieces within the one mod would be alright.. it'll only be the BUS STOP, and BUS LANE Lots anyway that'd have a bi-lingual version in this mod as far as i can think at the moment

about Bus-only roads.. i'm not too bothered about them myself either - we do get short stretches of it occasionally - but not usually a long road of 2-lane with bus-lanes each way - i also haven't ever seen more than one bus-lane is any given direction.......

there are those guided bus-ways in Leeds (i think) which someone posted in the thread: but they only actually look like they are single-lane anyway in one direction. i think just using the H.O.V. lot is good enough (for now). Romford town centre doesn't allow any vehicles through a certain part except buses and taxis - but it isn't painted as a Bus Lane or anything. it just has the signs as you enter which prohibit motorcars and motorcycles (the red circle with white background and picture of a car and motorbike)

before delving into anything like guided bus ways i would (personally) prefer to see the 2-lane road including bus lane finished.. and other possibilites like: 2-lane road including contraflow bus lane.. 3-lane road (two-way) including one bus lane.. 4-lane road (two-way) including one bus lane.. 4-lane road (two-way) including two bus lanes.. 6-lane road (two-way) including two bus lanes..... guess we should worry about getting the one-way 2-lane road with bus-lane finished first though, huh? which is why i think i need to be learning how to create more parts of it myself...

[6underground 11]

I know exactly how you feel about learning stuff for yourself, that's pretty much what got me into BATting too begin with, there was stuff that i'd love too see in game, namely Welshie stuff, but too my knowlegde there were very Welshies on the boards back then. How times have changed :-D, especially with Ill_Tonkso's and Frogfaces, as well as Franz_Ferdinand's contributions, it's all changing :-D. The bi-lingual part shouldn't be at all difficult as you said, basically just adding about three or four words in total! I know for certain that a the few Welshies i do know on the boards would absolutely love it!

So basically the only thing that's holding the project up at the moment is the lack of knowlegde when it coems too puzzle pieces, rather than the amount of people who are helping. Sounds like it'll be solved as soon as the people with the know how arrive. If i had more time i would explore the forums a bit more and track down how they do it, since alot of what can be modded, is usually written down on the boards somewhere, it's just a shame that it isn't organised more.

Sit Tight, and we'll all be getting this done soon :-D

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

i'm a bit unsure about the future of this mod at the moment. i intend to test and see how it goes; but it may not be worth pursuing.. there are some parts i am unsure of (despite the massive amounts of advice and help i have been given so far from some of the most experienced modders)

i am currently looking into the Intesections Ordering RUL file - according to the Tutorial, there is only one file which controls all intersections. just a curiosity - i'm wondering how the version of this RUL file in the NAM overrides the default Maxis one?

that leads me into questioning whether this mod can have its own copy of this RUL..? if it did then I presume this would conflict with the one in the NAM and so all data needs to be combined into the one file or only one mod can be used at a time --- therefore the only way this mod can be used with the NAM is if they are put together .. like ATL and GLR are included with the NAM? and as I have no rights to the NAM or control over what is included, the decision to include it would not be mine

(unless there is a way to make a RUL file in the mod refer to an existing RUL file (in the NAM mod) for the main core of data, and just make additions to it through its own file - but i'm pretty sure that's a totally impossible concept for SC4 modding)

which sections of the RUL file would actually need updating for adding road network puzzle pieces, menu items, etc.....?

i have managed to tackle most other phases of the Intersection Tutorial in order to make the puzzle-pieces and could probably handle the Hex editing (should the tutorial provide enough guidance), but the RUL file is the one sticky point

the other thing bothering me at the moment about the RUL is that i can see what is happening in the file (to an extent), but currently not enough to update it accurately myself (maybe i could if i study it throughly enough for a long time) - but the Intersection Tutorial does not cover this and i do understand why completely.. it is clearly better for someone with experience to update it due to the technical complexity of it

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

INFO: i have succesfully created puzzle-pieces on my own (minus the pathfinding) by referring to the Interchange Tutorial for guidance, and a series of superb articles Tropod provided explaining networks in the game which also covered the RULes.

the only thing now -- to create the pieces i have had to modify the Intersection Ordering RUL file in the NAM. that is the only way the mod can be used at the same time as the NAM.

also some TransitEnabledLots are needed for this mod to actually function properly; and because of this - the mod may never be added to the NAM - so i am unsure of the status for a 'general release' of this mod even if i do continue to make it...

UNLESS there is a way to create a secondary Intersection Ordering RUL file which gets appended at runtime/initialization to the end of the RUL file inside the NAM.dat - then the only solution is that a modified version of the NAM.dat must be installed along with this mod in order for it to be used by anyone...

[Tennismaster1 1]

keep up the good work ed

[6underground 11]

This does seem too be getting pretty complicated (by my standard), i like the picture you posted over at SCC, is it an ingame photo?

I wish i knew more about the techincal aspects of NAM and RULes, but i just havent gotten too that stage of mastery.

 

Whatever happens, i'll try and help out the best i can.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

i honestly don't think there is a way to create a secondary RUL file as it specifically says in the notes and articles i used that all interchanges in the game are controlled by that particualar single RUL file. therefore i can only presume one version of the RUL file will be used even if there is a second one. besides - with the way that RUL is structured, it couldn't just append another file to the end because the single RUL file is broken into two different sections

yep the picture at SCC was in-game and plopped

i will continue with the mod at the moment by expanding on my own modified version of the NAM's interchange RUL file - but for now, anyone who wishes to have a test copy (when available) will need to download the 12MB modified NAM.dat aswell and need to make sure you don't mix it up with the unmodified NAM.dat..!

[6underground 11]

I'll look forward too that for sure!

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

i have a problem i'd like to iron out - if possible. i need some help to know if it can be resolved without resorting to the only solution i know

the straight pieces can go up hills - by the ConsLayout i used in the Intersection Ordering RUL file. but they can only go up a small gradient - like highways amd rails. i'd like to change it so they can go up hills as steep as roads, streets, and avenues can. is this possible (without resorting to a ConsLayout which makes puzzle-pieces ploppable on ANY type of terrain/gradient like the NAM)??

the ConsLayout i had used was with the character | used for each tile of a straight (north-to-south) puzzle-piece so that it can only be placed on hills is that direction (and the land gets evened out) which i like!! i just want to make the gradient steeper, really

[6underground 11]

How steep are we talking about here? The standard maxis crap-o-rama, or along the lines of one of the slope mods? (which is more realistic).

 

I'm not sure if this is any use, but dpn't puzzle pieces just cover over an exisiting road (or similiar), so if you have a slope mod and drag out a piece of road then cover it over with the bus lane, it wouldn't need too conform the slope. I'm probably talking crap, as i don't know that much about puzzle pieces. However the GLR pieces has a huge tolerance of steepness, it may be worth opening the GLR Dat file and copy the releveant information from there, perhaps?

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

i have checked amd the tolerance of gradient is EXACTLY equal to that of highways for me - whereas railways have a higher toleance. its alright for the high-speed highways, but its too little gradient for a road IMO

i do have a slopemod which may be affecting that - but it makes sense that the tolerance matches a highways when puxxle-pieces are all in-fact highway interchanges as far the game is concerned. and as far as i can tell, in the interchanges DAT file there are only a few character which control the gradient it is plopped on...

- makes a left-right slope on that tile
| makes a up-down slope on that tile
/ or \ make diagonal slopes on the tiles
# means the land will be flattened on that tile
i think X means the land can be any direction and gradient of slope

as far as i can see that is the only way to control this. and the reason we can place NAM overpasses and ped malls on slopes is because they can also be placed on uneven land and sideways slops by using the X character for those tiles maybe this is because its the only solution - the only way to get around the fact that the game thinks they are highways and therefore will not allow anything other than higway tolerance for the gradient. it just means that people have to even the slope out first before placing puzzle-pieces down (if they want them to be level - level in the sense that from left-to-right it is even, but a slope going from behind-to-ahead)

well - that's all my own assumptions anyway

here's a pic showing some pieces together. so far there is one menu button for these straight/start pieces. which can TAB through a selection of four. the paths are included but aren't working in any real sense of the word - and i'm waiting for qurlix to come on at ST to talk to him about that (the paths). as you can see the gradient is extremely restricted. that was a big steep hill which i tried to plop them on - then i tried it with a highway on a similar hill and got the same result

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//newexample.jpg align=baseline>

[mikeyb66 30]

Hi, I was just browsing through the site after a bit of an abscence and I found this thread. I may be able to help out a bit with props and I have created this bus stop which is similar to the ones we have near me. I can create a few variations if you wish. I'm not sure on the scale, it currently measures 6m x 3m x 2m, do you think this will be big enough (unfortunately I can't test it in game atm). It's a bit crude at the moment tho if you are interested I will tighten it up. So, let me know what you think.

[vester_DK 477]

Very interesting development. I hope this can be done when finish into a euro-style bus land mod.

Keep up the good work.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

mikey666 thanks for the offer - helping with props would be great about the bus-stop: well, we have already had 3 (including yours) potential bus stops models shown in the thread so far - but all have been at completely different stages of completion! no decision has been made on which would be used. i'm thinking of going with GingerBlokey's as this looks most close to bus shelter designs around here! but if you wish to finish the bus-stop it may be included as a secondary design  you are welcome to make variations too as there is no reason to limit it to one/two designs if people would like more variety

 

here the latest shot of the progress:

 

 

i'm not going to make any additional pieces yet for the initial testing. (no junctions, corners, or diagonals yet) but it will still be fully functional used for straight strectches alone. there are just a few things which need finalising before then:

 

- a solution to the gradient tolerance of highways making it impossible to go up steep hills

 

- altering the chicane pieces you can see above; so that they actually connect to the normal one-way road networks

 

- correct path files needed; and path files needed for the chicane connection piece

 

- a TransitEnabledLot with BUS LANE road marking that can be plopped at the start of the bus lane. this needs to be created to block cars using the bus-lane

 

once these things are completed and/or issues have been resolved, i will test the mod's functionality myself and show pics of the result!

[mikeyb66 30]

I worked on my bus stop a bit more and have improved it. I can produce a couple of other versions with the billboards in different posistions.

[ScruffyDeluxe 0]

Date: 9/4/2005 10:09:38 AM
Author: mikeyb66
I worked on my bus stop a bit more and have improved it. I can produce a couple of other versions with the billboards in different posistions.

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/846/busstop29wc

quote>

Whoa, that looks a lot like the bus shelters where I live. If the main structure was charcoal grey, with the awning the same colour as the bench, you'd have it 100%. I reckon it would be possible to make shelters for just about any region's PTE with some sneaky colour changes.

Good work!

[mikeyb66 30]

Here are a couple more variations:





Hope you like them, I guess I can make them in any colour for different places. I haven't been able to render it to see what it looks like in game but it should be fine.