The Interstate Towns

[cardwellent 9]

Hi Everyone,

Just thought I would share one playing style that I have. I start out with a blank region. After setting up the terrain in the region, I will build interstates. 1 or 2 interstates will come from SimNation and pass through my region. My individual cities will have small country roads set up as U.S. routes and/or state highways. These roads in every region are lined with huge farms as you would see in rural America.

Occasionally, I will put a little town in with maybe a 100 to 200 population. These towns only provide minimal services as a real rural town would. They are far and few between and my region will only have 2 or 3 of these towns to start.

I then pick a spot along the above mentioned interstates and I will build a few services such as gas stations, places to eat, and so on. Of couse, with this I will have a low density housing community where the people that work in these places live. Along with these services I will build entertainment such as playgrounds, small sports parks, and other custom lots I find right here at Simtropolis. I will also build a couple hotels for the travelers to stop overnight in.

I will also have one city area set aside where I build what is the equivalent of national or state park that is heavily wooded and contains lots like what you find in the PEG MTP or some others that are on this site. This park area is set away from my interstates with only a small state highway running to it. Along the road will be little corner stops for gas and food.

After all this is done and I switch back and forth between city areas enjoying the peacefullness of country living, I will go back to my interstate exit and start build a small town (population of about 1000) to act as my county seat. I will also build a rural freight station to allow all that food being grown to be shipped out. I build additional exits in different city areas with services. 

As you can probaly guess, my county seat starts becoming a bigger town and my other little towns grow as I add more little towns.  To skip way foward, I eventually have to build a beltway that goes all the way around my region as it becomes a metropolitan area with my county seat being the biggest city and the surrounding cities acting as suburbs.

The custom lots found here, on the bsc site, and on the PEG site are fantastic for finding just the right lot to go on just the right place. I posted this because I wanted to start a thread to hear about how other people will build in a new region and hear about different playing styles.

Special thanx to Simgoober and his wide range of real life commercial service lots which add unbelievable realism to the simulator.

[cinzbenz 3]

I like what you're doing. I get stuck in "metropolis mode" and build these huge dense cities, but your region sounds like a much nicer place to live :-D Thank you for sharing.

[cardwellent 9]

Is it all right to post a couple pics up here? I know that bandwidth is becoming a precious thing on Simtropolis.

[Rionescu 14]

I love your idea, since I have the same problem as Igmills. I'm gonna try it and see how long I can hold out on build a huge metropolis. I don't think a few pictures is a big deal, since STEX uploads are way bigger. Besides, pictures are constantly posted in City-Building Concepts and they aren't showing signs of letting up, so go ahead. I'd love to see how your towns start and what they grow to become.

[cardwellent 9]

Ok let me figure out how to insert an image here band I will post 2 pics from a new region I call Rutherford County. The county seat is South Demont. Interstate 2 runs through the southern part of the region. This is a brand new county (region) so I am still working on the big farms that will occupy this area.

- I will explain more when I get the pic posted-

For right now you can view a couple pics at   http://www.cardwellent.com/pics.html

I will post a lot more pics on my site as I take them but nderstand that I like detail so some images may look the same but there will be some added stuff.

[Rionescu 14]

That's one of the best ways I've seen to start a region and I'll try it out soon. As for the highway problems, I would suggest either the RHW, or if that's too hard, try these textures for the Maxis highways (I think you might need these too). A quick search for mrtnrln will yield may interesting results for highways.

[cardwellent 9]

Can all of these work together and with the NAM? I like the shoulders on the one pack. This should add a little realism. Why Maxis put those stupid walls on the side of highways I'll never know. Maybe in other countries that might be how the highways are, but not in the United States and I think Canada. The dirt roads will be nice as an addition to the Peg logging roads.

 

I took a peak at the RHW tutorial. Looks very interesting. I see it allows alot greater variety for someone like me that likes to take the time to make sure everything looks right. I will keep my questions about it limited to the support thread.

I'm going to start reworking the highway first then I'll post another pic of it after I'm done. Not to get too far ahead here, another thing I will be changing is the occupant count in the houses. Some of them are way too much. I would presume in a normal house you would only have a family size population (4 maybe 5 on average not counting the dog LOL).

I must be the first person who has ever wanted a decreased occupancy. I just get into the realism.

[SockoJr53 51]

I too use this idea to start out my regions, usually small towns located next to a body of water that connect by state route and railroad, much like small early American cities.

If anyone is looking for inspiration, or to visualize what we're talking about here, might I suggest the city journal: "Digby - East Coast Region" It was locked as the creator had abandoned it quite some time ago but it still remains my favorites CJ. It's a perfect example of this idea of small towns, rural farmland, and a network of regional highways and railroads.

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=43752&enterthread=y

[cardwellent 9]

Yes that was a very nice region. I spent a lot of time studying the different pics. The style is like mine in that it deals with a rural area. It really makes me think about a time when passenger trains dominated the transportation sector and towns would boom up around these routes. I also noticed that this region was made in 2003. Not a lot of textures and props then so this creator really put some time into working with what was just aviable then.

The idea of using just county and state roads is pretty kewl. It gives it a feeling of what it was like before the massive interstate highway system existed. These were the days of the old route 66 stops and when quarter theaters were everywhere.

Thanx so much for sharing this thread.

[Rionescu 14]

Yeah, they all work just fine together. The shoulders are very nice, since I don't think they have walls like that anywhere in the world on a highway going through rural areas. Once I find a good map I'm going to make a desert region with this concept. It definitely adds a new look to the game.

[dafiden 11]

I think we're seeing two different approaches here that ultimately have the same ideas, but different timeframes:

1. cardwellent appears to be modeling the ultimate results of the interstate/highway system in the US. That is, they are already built and then he connects his towns/cities to them. This is backward from reality, but achieves the same realistic result.

2. Reality (and probably what Digby is trying to model) is that the cities/towns were built before the interstate/highway systems and were connected by primary roads, i.e. US Routes State Routes, but they ultimately they were connected by regular roads (albeit high speed limits beyond the population area). Once the interstates came, they were planned to intersect key cities/towns. And, you see them frequently on the outskirts of "main street" or the main farming road. And, new "bigbox" commerce would then develop around the on-ramps and connector roads to the existing "main street" or farming roads.

Both 1 and 2 acheive the same end game, but 1 tries to model the interstate/highway system first, while 2 tries to model the real-world with interstates/highways a consequence of existing development and not the other way around.

What say you?

[newcrusader92 0]

Originally posted by: dafiden

I think we're seeing two different approaches here that ultimately have the same ideas, but different timeframes:

1. cardwellent appears to be modeling the ultimate results of the interstate/highway system in the US. That is, they are already built and then he connects his towns/cities to them. This is backward from reality, but achieves the same realistic result.

2. Reality (and probably what Digby is trying to model) is that the cities/towns were built before the interstate/highway systems and were connected by primary roads, i.e. US Routes State Routes, but they ultimately they were connected by regular roads (albeit high speed limits beyond the population area). Once the interstates came, they were planned to intersect key cities/towns. And, you see them frequently on the outskirts of "main street" or the main farming road. And, new "bigbox" commerce would then develop around the on-ramps and connector roads to the existing "main street" or farming roads.

Both 1 and 2 acheive the same end game, but 1 tries to model the interstate/highway system first, while 2 tries to model the real-world with interstates/highways a consequence of existing development and not the other way around.

quote>

I think in a sense, #1 isn't really backwards from reality.  Sometimes, highways are built in anticipation of new developments that are placed close by.  In these cases, the new developments aren't really a consequence of highways, but rather a package deal.  It's like saying, "We would like to put new neighborhoods, shopping centers, and office parks here, but we know they're going to come out here in droves".  So, to be safe, they predict traffic volume for the new roads and highways ahead of time and build the road/highway network for that area accordingly.

[Yonk 2]

Highways connecting urban/suburban areas (at least on the West Coast of the US - much less dense than the East) often travel through very rural or even desolate areas. There is no reason small towns could not pop up alongside these just as boomtowns did alongside rail lines in the past. A good example is Interstate 5 traveling though California, as between Los Angeles and Sacramento, there's really nothing other than endless acres of farms and a few small towns, and I really don't think the Interstate was meant to connect-the-dots between anything, as it traveles in a perfectly straight line. State Route 99, on the other hand, parallels the Amtrack Line, and passes through Bakersfield, Fresno, Merced, Modesto, and Stockton... all the large cities in the central part of the state. So the 99 is an example of the second case, while the 5 is an example of the first, which has possibly not yet run its course through time, yet.

- Yonk

[DPMorse 2]

A freight station implies rail, yet I see no rail in your pics.

I do like how you have set up the Interstate 'truck stops', though. I don't know about other countries, but in the U.S. these little res/com areas are very essential. 

[cardwellent 9]

I can see the point here, but I must point out that sometimes a simple service established at an interstate exit can lead to development. Such is the case in Strafford, Mo where originally there was nothing but an exit to nothing but a small population of people doing nothing. The exit then got a truck stop. That boomed into another truck stop and a convience store after which another convience store opened. The last time I checked, the exit was getting a little strip of storefronts of which one was going to be a subway. Now I will admit that Springfield is not far from strafford but in my playing style the interstate highways are not just built coming from nowhere and goin to nowhere. They actually simulate real interstates that run from city to city over which my counties do not determine thier route. I like to simulate what happens when exits in the middle of nowhere aquire just a small service and eventually this does lead to the growth of that area. All over the U.S., this is happening, mostly in rural America. In my simulations thier may be big cities in neighboring counties but I liike to start with a rural county and since the rails in america, after losing the biggest percentage of passenger traffic, no longer could offer prosperity to regions in the U.S. Thats the time when trucks took over the transportation of goods. Only in the last decade have we seen the rebirth of the rail system because of the super inflated price of fuel.

Lets just imagine for a second that we have a major route travelling through a rural county. A business realizes the business potential of building a service at an exit where no services exist and where the nearest services are quite a few miles away. They buy a corner lot from a local farmer and build thier service. Other companies see the same chance and do the same thing. You now have an exit with services. Since the employees have no place to live close then housing is built. Employees need things like groceries and basic living items to survive. Now here comes a small grocery store. Since the grocery store needs employees, more people move into the area. So here we go, the development of a small town that on down the line will become a big city, but I am no hurry to see that happen. It takes me a month just to perfect the first service area I have in my county.

This actually happens right here in the U.S. I have travelled this country extensivly and have seen this time and time again over the last 30 years. Yes I am probaly alot older than most you. Don't get me wrong, I love the way Dixby did his region but his region is based on a time before the roosevelt interstate highway system existed. The interstate highway system was preplanned and wasn't determined by small towns and rural counties. It was originally set up for the fast transportation of military troops and supplies. After World War II, the interstate highway system become a transportation system to handle the growing number of commuters who were travelling by car, hense the death of passenger rail service. The smaller towns that existed on the old U.S. routes died a quick death. New services and towns popped up along the new interstates. The interstates were not built for access to these towns but the towns were built around the new interstate system. As a matter of fact the interstates were built so people would no longer have to go through these towns. They were built to completely bypass these towns. So goes the long story of the system. Cities and towns can not just build interstates. They can build limited access highways and beltways but they must apply to the federal government to have them become interstates.

Now also keep in mind , that my regions are played as small middle America counties and these are undeveloped areas where the heart of American agriculture exist. It's hard to find these areas along the East coast anymore and since the west coast doesn't have 100's of miles of suitable farming land you probaly wouldn't see counties like this there either. I think the comment above reflects a macro style of region play where as I concentrate more on a micro style. This doesn't mean that small towns do not already exist in my county because they do. My real simulation starts after these towns and farms are built.

I hope this sheds some light on my playing style. But the purpose of this thread is not to say one style is right or wrong. I simply want to know how other people play. Its so great to see all the different playing styles.

[iowndiscti 141]

this is an excellent idea, its one thing wrong with this playing style though. the cities where there is no city in, but you still have to run a freeway through will dwindle in cash unless your using some kind of money generating cheat for that city.

[dafiden 11]

newcrusader92, I basically agree with your analysis, but I don't agree that my #1 is incorrect. Yes, I admit my #1 may be a little too technical/specific, but it's correct when you consider what cardwellent is doing. My technical point was that if all you did was create an interstate in a barren wasteland (like what cardwellent is doing in the game), it isn't realistic to think that villages/towns would suddenly spring out up of nothing along the interstate. Could it happen? Yes, anything can happen. Is it realistic to model in general for a whole region this way? No.

Yes, I agree that interstates/highways contribute significantly to development. However, there has to be something there initially, small or large. If not, there would be no exit ramp. You won't ever find a situation where the only way to get from point A to point B is an interstate. Roads are built first.

Now, clearly if there was a tiny village that happened to get an interstate exit and there were other towns/cities that it was suddenly connected to, yes this tiny village could explode.

P.S.  I think what cardwellent is doing is both interesting and fun.  I just digressed to a technical analysis of SC4 building/timeline/planning vs. real-world building/timeline/planning for a moment.

[newcrusader92 0]

Originally posted by: cardwellent

Now also keep in mind , that my regions are played as small middle America counties and these are undeveloped areas where the heart of American agriculture exist. It's hard to find these areas along the East coast anymore and since the west coast doesn't have 100's of miles of suitable farming land you probaly wouldn't see counties like this there either. I think the comment above reflects a macro style of region play where as I concentrate more on a micro style. This doesn't mean that small towns do not already exist in my county because they do. My real simulation starts after these towns and farms are built.

I hope this sheds some light on my playing style. But the purpose of this thread is not to say one style is right or wrong. I simply want to know how other people play. Its so great to see all the different playing styles.quote>

It's great we're having this discussion; it's not that anyone intended to criticize playing styles.

I hadn't stopped to look closely at how I develop my regions.  It depends partly on the mood I'm in, and partly what I want out of a particular area.  Sometimes, I will build a highway first (especially if it's a Maxis highway) and bring development in, and sometimes put in a small town or several small communities, then bring in a highway.  One thing that is consistent is that I work from east to west (symbolic of how the U.S. was explored) and then go out north and south simultaneously.  If I have a goal of making a particular area urban, I tend to zone residential and commercial areas there aggressively.

There is one particular challenge I have right now.  I am trying to revive a formerly industrial city.  Many of the strategies that have helped me develop other cities fail with this particular one.  I started a "rebranding" campaign and already have R$$$ coming in.  It's only a start; I'm working on getting R$ and R$$ to move in as well.  I may post pictures later of this, time permitting.

I enjoyed the pictures.  Not to put pressure on your or anything, but have you considered a city journal?  It would be interesting to see how your region develops.

[cardwellent 9]

That's a great idea to develope from east to west. I would love to see some pics of that. Does that include your agriculture too ? The story of my region does not even begin til the whole region is filled up with farms and little farming towns. That is to say I like to pretend that the farms, little towns, and 1 or 2 lone interstate systems already exist. Oh yeah someone asked how I keep my budget going. I jst fill up a whole region with farms, farming towns., and small residence that act as kind of houses where the farmers live. Also each area will have at least 1 little town that serves as a farming town. That's part of the reason why you don't see any rail yet because it would take my budget down at first. It's hard to keep the budget balanced while I try to build a farming region so I can really begin the simulation at the point where evry city area is filled with farms. Eventhough I would love to cheat sometimes, I have to bite my tongue and say "there's no government bailouts in my simulation." LOL

I will do what you sugested and start keeping a city journal as soon as I get to a point where I can start my simulation. Right now I'm playing with the RHW to see how to add even more realism. It's really a fantastic add-on with almost an unlimited amount of configurations.

Thanx for sharing your playing style with us. I saw some old west building on the stex that look like they could be used to create almost an 1800's type of enviroment eventhough I think money just might be a problem with that because the areas really would be barren.

[cardwellent 9]

Oh I forgot to mention, I will be gone for about 4 days starting tomorrow as we are moving the motorhome to a new camp spot. I wish I knew how to do textures and props so I could put some RV parks in the game. If I post some pics on my site of our motorhome, can anyone make them into a prop for a RV park? Also I need some chicken wire fence sections or I guess barbed wire fence sections to go along the interstae and around some of the farms where they meet other types of zones. I guess I need to learn how to make everything myself.

[dafiden 11]

Yes, I second newcrusader and say thanks for the pics and that you should start a CJ. I would like to see more. I think I'm going to try to start with highways like you suggested.

[newcrusader92 0]

Originally posted by: cardwellent

That's a great idea to develope from east to west. I would love to see some pics of that. Does that include your agriculture too ? The story of my region does not even begin til the whole region is filled up with farms and little farming towns. That is to say I like to pretend that the farms, little towns, and 1 or 2 lone interstate systems already exist.quote>

The region includes plenty of agriculture.  I have two large city tiles so far which have farms on the western edge and future CBDs on the eastern side.  Eventually the farms will go away, but I put them in at the beginning to make the two cities self-reliant.  Once I get a freight rail network set up and extended far enough, much of the east coast will lose the farms.

I wish I had taken pictures from the beginning, but my old computer was not powerful enough to handle this.  Once I finish terraforming the rest of the regions (I used to do this as in-game, one region at a time) with a terraforming utility, I will begin sharing regional pictures.

Oh yeah someone asked how I keep my budget going. I jst fill up a whole region with farms, farming towns., and small residence that act as kind of houses where the farmers live. Also each area will have at least 1 little town that serves as a farming town. That's part of the reason why you don't see any rail yet because it would take my budget down at first. It's hard to keep the budget balanced while I try to build a farming region so I can really begin the simulation at the point where evry city area is filled with farms. Eventhough I would love to cheat sometimes, I have to bite my tongue and say "there's no government bailouts in my simulation." LOLquote>

I have to admit that I built too much too fast a couple of times.  It wasn't the railroad that almost did my cities in, it was the elevated highways and bridges.  The population didn't grow fast enough, and even though there was extensive commercial zoning, new businesses were slow to set up shop.  I set up new cities around one of them, created new commercial and industry zones, and connected the cities.  Certain roads were tolled also.  Then I slowed down and watched things recover economically.

Of course there are no government bailouts. . . I am the government in my region.    The bankers have my back; I took out some loans to get two cities back on their feet, and the loans have been completely paid off and both cities are making a profit each month.  I could do fiat money and make it magically appear on command, but that's not my style either.

I will do what you sugested and start keeping a city journal as soon as I get to a point where I can start my simulation. Right now I'm playing with the RHW to see how to add even more realism. It's really a fantastic add-on with almost an unlimited amount of configurations.quote>

Prepare to spend time practicing creating ramps with the RHW.  It requires a lot of patience, especially when you're working with space-saving interchanges and putting ramps on slopes.  On the other hand, it's easier on the city budget than the Maxis highways, and looks better cosmetically.  There is the HRS (highway restyling) mod, however, which takes away the walls from the Maxis ground highways, adds shoulders, and changes the road surface. . . it's available on the STEX if you're interested in checking it out.

Thanx for sharing your playing style with us.quote>

You're welcome.