Civilization 5 Announced

[Chptrk 86]

I got the demo yesturday, played it a little, and it seems pretty fun. I've still got to really play/get used to it before I buy it though. But I'm in no way fond of the "Must register with Steam" thing. I can't stand Steam to begin with. I prefer owning a disc and not needing to set up the game with some online thing. But I digress. 

You don't have to be online/connected to Steam to play the game once you've registered it, right? (If you own the disc)

[un1 41]

Yeah its required to play (you dont have to use Steam for anything else though, in fact you dont even need to open it just aslong as its on the computer), it is nice to know how much time you've played it though.

[SC4BOY 20]

Well in fact you MUST load Steam each and every time you play it (it will consume resources and processor cycles no matter what)  The only choice you have is to run in "off-line" mode or "on-line" mode. Also, you must have logged onto your Steam acct at least in the last 30 days from that pc if I understand it correctly. Steam also will apparently only run the "current version"... so if they come out with some update they have the ability to effectively remove your ability to play if you don't get (or buy?) the "update".

Steam is incompatible with some typical "helper programs" that some use. Installation is often criticized by folk who couldn't make it work only to find it is some background program or antivirus program that is causing the issue. This causes people's "install experience" to range from "no problem" to "hours of wasted effort". It also requires a heavy download for those without hot internet connections, prepare for a long process. Even if installed from the DVD it still requires about 1.6GB of download at install.

I'm told that Steam is totally free and only the games cost something. I was lead to believe it is a subscription service, but I may be wrong. The use of Steam aside (either use it or don't play.. heheh) ....

It  is rather demanding of hardware too perhaps in part due to Steam's overhead. Most folk who don't have "hot" systems will either not be able to run it or only run it in "DirectX 9 mode". This all in spite of the fact that most find the graphics to be at best comparable to Civ IV and the fact that they could run any previous version smoothly and effectively. Basically it seems to be DX11 or DX9..anything in between seems to need 9.

There is no *ix (ie Linux) client for Steam and running under a MAC requires that you run it under an emulator. I was a bit surprised by no Linux since it will run in OpenGL3.2 (I think.. not sure of the version, but probably the latest) There has been much speculation about Steam and Linux clients, but they are mum on the topic.

You are buying only a "license to use" and it is not transferable in ANY form. Once you install it, that's it. It's yours and only yours (must match the steam account).

The short  summary of the game reviews (it is heavily reviewed from MANY perspectives on amazon.com) is that it is much simplified and less "micromanagement" compared to earlier versions. Whether you like or hate this will probably relate to how much you loved or hated earlier versions (if you love it, you're less likely to like Civ V, if you found them boring or tedious you're more likely to like it)

The fact that you can no longer stack units and must maneuver and swap positions and terrain rather stragically compared to the old "stack and roll" method is considered a plus by many. They feel it forces you to be more strategic than before. The hex tiles and the ability to "act at a distance" (bombard) helps make this work.

The AI (the computer opponent) is apparently very bad, so being able to "rule and conquer" should not be a huge problem, although some say the game becomes VERY difficult at the hard levels. (This is not accomplished by "smarter AI" but by making the cost of AI progress and units much cheaper than the player's and the unhappiness penalties for the player more draconian) The suggestion is that the game will not have the "re-playability" that previous versions did. Others counter with the fact that an SDK is included with the game, so it can be "customized" to any number of new places and actions both by yourself and possibly by downloading from others.

The current version is apparently very buggy. Many people report they have game crashes fairly frequently. Most expect that Steam will handle the patches and bug-fixes fairly quickly (within weeks)

A good thing is that it can be downloaded in "trial form" from STEAM for free (you MUST install Steam to do this) for a test period (not sure how long.. probably no more than a few hours of game-play). The documentation is in .pdf form and is only for download. It is my understanding that you can get this for free before you start your trial too.  I'm not sure if the trial can just be "upgraded" to licensed or if you have to re-download for a full install. I'd recommend that you be prepared in advance before you start this or no doubt you will suffer frustration by feeling short-changed. It is my understanding that you can get the download and the manual in advance before starting your "trial". If that's true, you should be able to get a great understanding of it before you buy it. This at least will prevent you from making a $50 mistake and you'll only have invested some of your time.

[Chptrk 86]

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

Well in fact you MUST load Steam each and every time you play it (it will consume resources and processor cycles no matter what)  The only choice you have is to run in "off-line" mode or "on-line" mode. Also, you must have logged onto your Steam acct at least in the last 30 days from that pc if I understand it correctly. Steam also will apparently only run the "current version"... so if they come out with some update they have the ability to effectively remove your ability to play if you don't get (or buy?) the "update".quote>

Are you sure you need to load it every time you play the game if you buy the disc based version rather then the Steam Edition? I have no desire to purchase the Steam edition at all, but the disc based one I am thinking about. I thought you only needed to load Steam once with the disc, to register or something like that, and after that you don't need it. I've used Steam before (only because Portal was free on it, so I got it), and I thought the "offline" and "online" modes are only for games bought on Steam.

I'm told that Steam is totally free and only the games cost something. I was lead to believe it is a subscription service, but I may be wrong. The use of Steam aside (either use it or don't play.. heheh) ....quote>

Steam is free, it's only the games you have to pay for. Think of it as the iTunes of video games. (Personally, I think that's a bad thing. I much prefer to own a disc then just a digital download.)

You are buying only a "license to use" and it is not transferable in ANY form. Once you install it, that's it. It's yours and only yours (must match the steam account).quote>

Once again, I think (and hope) that only applies to the Steam edition.

The short  summary of the game reviews (it is heavily reviewed from MANY perspectives on amazon.com) is that it is much simplified and less "micromanagement" compared to earlier versions. Whether you like or hate this will probably relate to how much you loved or hated earlier versions (if you love it, you're less likely to like Civ V, if you found them boring or tedious you're more likely to like it)quote>

I'll have to read through those sometime, too busy right now though.

The fact that you can no longer stack units and must maneuver and swap positions and terrain rather stragically compared to the old "stack and roll" method is considered a plus by many. They feel it forces you to be more strategic than before. The hex tiles and the ability to "act at a distance" (bombard) helps make this work.quote>

That I do kinda like.

A good thing is that it can be downloaded in "trial form" from STEAM for free for a test period (not sure how long.. probably no more than a few hours of game-play). quote>

That's the demo. It's free for as long as you want to play it. The demo itself doesn't run out, but you are only allowed to be 1 of 3 Civs, play on a small continent map, the tech tree is limited to Ancient through Medieval eras, basically a little demo of how things work. I've been playing it since it became available, it's not that bad. (Although the downloading time from Steam was rediculous.

[SC4BOY 20]

Originally posted by: Unmannedperson

I just hope it doesn't overly simplify to appeal to a broader market ...

The difficulty curve IMO is right on the money with Civ4.quote>

Yes they have in the opinions of many. I alluded to this in my earlier post, but thought I'd address your specific post..

Originally posted by: Chptrk

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

... MUST load Steam each and every time...quote>

Are you sure you need to load it every time you play the game if you buy the disc based version rather then the Steam Edition?quote>

That is my understanding, yes. When you start the shortcut it loads steam. If you don't go into steam and select "offline mode" then it won't start

...Steam is totally free and only the games cost something....quote>

Steam is free, it's only the games you have to pay for. Think of it as the iTunes of video games. (Personally, I think that's a bad thing. I much prefer to own a disc then just a digital download.)quote>

Sounds good.

.. "license to use" .. not transferable in ANY form.quote>

Once again, I think (and hope) that only applies to the Steam edition.quote>

No it also applies to the DVD version. You may as well just get it from Steam..they may even have a "sale" on it once the intro fanfare dies down. They get a % of the sale no matter where you get it.. although the DVD I guess saves you about 3GB of downloads for whatever that's worth. To save that download, you do have to follow a special procedure to install from the DVD (haven't done it, but I think you have to select "custom" or "manual" install or something along that line). If you do a plain install it does it all from Steam anyways... It's not documented in the install unless you look it up specifically.

A good thing is that it can be downloaded in "trial form" from STEAM for free for a test period (not sure how long.. probably no more than a few hours of game-play). quote>

... free for as long as you want to play it. The demo itself doesn't run out, but you are only allowed to be 1 of 3 Civs, play on a small continent map, the tech tree is limited to Ancient through Medieval eras, basically a little demo of how things work. I've been playing it since it became available, it's not that bad. (Although the downloading time from Steam was rediculous.quote>

Sounds fine and reasonable.. Yes, rediculous downloadtimes are a big full-install complaint .. some people talk about download times of 8 hours or more. Perhaps that is just because of the big traffic from Civ V.. if so it's dissappointing that they aren't even prepared for a roll-out. It's my understanding they are a BIG company, so that is a bit surprising.

[un1 41]

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

The current version is apparently very buggy. Many people report they have game crashes fairly frequently. Most expect that Steam will handle the patches and bug-fixes fairly quickly (within weeks)

quote>

That is true, I've had 5 documented crashes in my ~7 hours of playing. All 5 were CTD's. 2 were crashing upon loading the main menu/closing, 2 were just randomly during the game (it autosaves every 5 turns maybe not just loaded the most recent autosave and lost 7 turns)..would be nice if its as often as Sid Meier's Railroads which was every minute since it was as buggy, translated into Civ V that would probably mean every turn) and 1 while looking at the Help contents.

[SC4BOY 20]

Originally posted by: un1

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

.. buggy. ..quote>

...(it autosaves every 5 turns maybe not just loaded the most recent autosave and lost 7 turns)..quote>

The autosave period can be changed in the settings.. I'd recommend if you're seriously playing to set it to every 2 moves at least until patches come out. (I believe default is every 10 turns) If you're just goofing around, obviously it doesn't much matter

Btw, while we're on this topic, this leads to an expansion on saves. I've read of many who complain of lots of lagging and slowness in the game, even with some decent (but not state-of-the-art) systems. It is my understanding that saves don't occur to your local harddrive but to the "Steam Cloud". If that's the case and if up/down loading is so slow, that may account for that. I'm not sure if this is a setting or only in online mode or what. Perhaps since you have the game you could check that out..   Are you running the DX9 version or the DX11 version?

[Larks2242 251]

Anyone see the new ad for it on amazon about addication?

[jdenm8 362]

My understanding of the Steam Cloud is that it saves savegames locally, then synchronises when you quit the game (or it crashes).

Honestly, Steam isn't as bad as people make it out to be (nowadays anyway). And, while it is same account only, you can install it on as many machines as you want (I believe) but you can only play on one at a time. And, because of Steam Cloud, all your savegames are there ready to go.

On the stacking, I preferred to play offline and against (usually) passive AI simply to see how big I could get. Therefore, if I got stuck with Napoleon or the Aztec guy (who normally declare war with me eventually anyway), I liked stacking tons of units on my cities.

The Diplomacy to me is just as clunky as it was in Civ IV. I didn't notice any major differences aside from making everything smaller.

The DLC thing is something I hate too.

The new city screen was a bit meh too. I don't know how many times I clicked on the hexagon itself trying to re-allocate labor only to find I had to click on that tiny pill.

Having to click several times for the game to register a manual troop movement or it deselecting when I'm trying to tell it to go somewhere (usually in the fog-of-war) was also irritating. I grew to hate the red 'failed movement' corona.

Though the thing that peeved me most was the graphics downgrade in the Demo. I use demos to gauge my computer's acceptance of a game and I just can't make up my mind about how it will run with Civ V. I fould the demo to run like Civ IV did, but taking about the same time to compute an enemy's movements on a small map in the Classical Era as it took to do the same on a Huge Map in the Modern Era in Civ IV.

Now what I loved:

I love the new bombarding. Having ranged units actually ranged and doing actual damage to the enemy (not just lowering Defence bonuses like it was in Civ IV) was handy and, for the first time, I found the combat in Civ enjoyable.

Also, making research progress that little clearer works to Civ V's advantage.

I'm undecided about City-States though. They're kinda annoying and don't seem to do anything beneficial.

[SC4BOY 20]

Originally posted by: jdenm8

Though the thing that peeved me most was the graphics downgrade in the Demo. I use demos to gauge my computer's acceptance of a game and I just can't make up my mind about how it will run with Civ V. I fould the demo to run like Civ IV did, but taking about the same time to compute an enemy's movements on a small map in the Classical Era as it took to do the same on a Huge Map in the Modern Era in Civ IV.quote>

Yea, it seems to be a huge resource hog.. not at all sure why. Quite a few people have complained about it. I don't  know if that is due to Steam overhead or just inherent in the coding of the game.

Now what I loved:

I love the new bombarding. Having ranged units actually ranged and doing actual damage to the enemy (not just lowering Defence bonuses like it was in Civ IV) was handy and, for the first time, I found the combat in Civ enjoyable.quote>

Some have commented that the game is like having only "archers and warriors" (only rinse and repeat through upgrades). There needs to be far fewer military units than you may have needed in earlier Civ games and therefore more manageable. Cities can also "defend at a distance", but I guess you can't set it to "auto-attack" intruders that come within range..

Also, making research progress that little clearer works to Civ V's advantage.quote>

Yea.. you don't mention, but reminded me that there is no research trading allowed now.. it's like you can sign "research partners" but no trading.

I'm undecided about City-States though. They're kinda annoying and don't seem to do anything beneficial.quote>

Most generally agree.. there are no barbarians in the old sense of the word and I guess these make kind of "bumps in the road" which you can befriend and cooperate with or roll over at your choice. In a way this is like the old barbarians.. if you recall you could build a city and let the barbs take it over (if closer to an enemy than to your capitol) and farm it by bribing units (vets if you put a baracks in the city) that were "none".. ie were free to support.

[Gringamuyloca 47]

From the amazon link SC4Boy provided... scroll towards the bottom of the page;

Other Requirements

Initial installation requires one-time Internet connection for Steam authentication; software installations required (included with the game) include Steam Client, Microsoft Visual C++2008 Runtime Libraries and Microsoft DirectX.

[un1 41]

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

Originally posted by: un1

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

.. buggy. ..quote>

...(it autosaves every 5 turns maybe not just loaded the most recent autosave and lost 7 turns)..quote>

The autosave period can be changed in the settings.. I'd recommend if you're seriously playing to set it to every 2 moves at least until patches come out. (I believe default is every 10 turns) If you're just goofing around, obviously it doesn't much matter

quote>

Oh thanks!

[Chptrk 86]

I just read on CivFanatics about some update for Civ V, and rather then make an account and ask there, I'm asking here. How do you update it if you bought the disc? Does it go through Steam? Is it from a start menu thingy? Something else?

Nevermind, I found out.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

It sounded so good in the beginning; now, not so much. I like Civ 4 and my only gripe about it is that ivory becomes useless eventually even though it is still a valuable luxury resource in today's world.

[jdenm8 362]

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

Yea, it seems to be a huge resource hog.. not at all sure why. Quite a few people have complained about it. I don't  know if that is due to Steam overhead or just inherent in the coding of the game.quote>

I think it's mainly the game itself. Steam doesn't have much of an overhead at all unless you're using the Steam Community Web Browser. And, ideally, the AI engine shouldn't consume many more resources than it did in Civ IV, considering a unit only has six possible movements in the new hex system compared to eight in the old grid system.

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

There needs to be far fewer military units than you may have needed in earlier Civ games and therefore more manageable. quote>

I completely agree now. I tried one of the mods built into Civ IV BTS and I ended up getting so fustrated with the CONSTANT AI stacks of doom (which I WAS holding off... just) that I opened WorldBuilder and wiped all the AI military units off the map. By the time I'd built up again where I could actually launch a counterattack (like, 10 turns later), The stacks of doom were back.

Originally posted by: SC4BOY

Most generally agree.. there are no barbarians in the old sense of the word and I guess these make kind of "bumps in the road" which you can befriend and cooperate with or roll over at your choice. In a way this is like the old barbarians.. if you recall you could build a city and let the barbs take it over (if closer to an enemy than to your capitol) and farm it by bribing units (vets if you put a baracks in the city) that were "none".. ie were free to support.

quote>

Well, I must admit I haven't played many of the different Civs (Civ IV and Call to Power is about it. I think I played Civ III at a friend's once) and I never 'farmed' them. I actually like Barbarians now. Instead of just appearing out of the fog of war, they actually spawn from somewhere.

[djrules5454 5]

Originally posted by: Ilikeseattle

It sounded so good in the beginning; now, not so much. I like Civ 4 and my only gripe about it is that ivory becomes useless eventually even though it is still a valuable luxury resource in today's world.quote>

I think you'll really like the city-states. I am certainly excited about having another dynamic to global politics in Civilization games.

[Loney 22]

I gave it a try on one of my friend's computers, don't remember the difficulty level. I haven't bought the game yet.

The AI made me cringe a little...

I was playing as Babylon and was in the Industrial Era. I had...

-Ironclad ship

-Artillery

-Infantry

A few of the civilizations were in the Renaissance Era, most of the others were still in the Medieval Era.

One of them, France, still in the Medieval Era, declared war on me. The AI's military units greatly outnumbered mine, but consisted of:

-Longswordsman

-Crossbowman

-Longbowman

-Knight

-Pikeman

-Trireme (wooden ship ramming an iron ship, lol)

It didn't take long for most of the AIs to also declare war on me as well. By that time, I had a few Fighter aircraft, Tanks, Destroyers Battleships, and I was close to having the Submarine and entering the Modern Era. Oh, and France, along with a few other civilizations were either annihilated or were devastated so badly that they could barely maintain one or two units and couldn't buildup their military.

Guess who got slaughtered, and who ended up gaining Domination Victory instead of Technology Victory?

EDIT: And the Barbarians? Target practices.

  Edited October 2, 2011 by Loney