new here

[mikeyfresh 1]

 hi everyone. just wanted to introduce myself. im mike and im new to the site and pretty much to sc4 also.

i tried it once a few years ago but didnt have much time to devote to it.

 but here i am im going to get started on my first city but i dont really have a plan. im not quite sure where to start. i have the nam and a few other of the recommended downloads installed so i guess im just going to wing it and see where that takes me.

   i do have a few questions tho.  as time goes by and i have more than 1 city will my sims travel to the next city over to work or do they stay close to home? just wondering if its possible to have primarily residential and commercial city and have them commute for industrial and office building jobs?

thanks,

mike

[astronelson 339]

Welcome to Simtropolis!

If they can't find jobs in their city, they'll travel to the next city. So you can have a residential/commercial city and an industrial city.

[SC4BOY 20]

You may "split" the zone types, but that will force higher commute times. When a sim enters an adjacent tile he is automatically accessed an added 1/2 the travel time of the adjacent tile to it's commute time. You may design your cities as you like (if you have some simulator mod that increases travel limits somewhat. It really isn't necessary unless you plan to have a "permanent" dirty industry area. The game naturally evolves industry toward non-polluting as you advance your sim's education quotient. Plus there is pollution associated with the travel itself

[Korot 6]

SC4BOY: If a sim goes into a neighbouring city, the game doesn't assume he works in the centre of this neighbouring city, but at the edge, one grid square in the city.

Also, sims will move into the neighbouring city, if the game assumes there are jobs in that city, and it is closer than a job in the actual city. Your plan can work though, as industry and commerce functions just fine without employees working there, they only need a way to transport the freight produced, or have sims passing by, respectively.

Regards,

Korot

[SC4BOY 20]

Originally posted by: Korot

SC4BOY: If a sim goes into a neighbouring city, the game doesn't assume he works in the centre of this neighbouring city, but at the edge, one grid square in the city.

tquote>

I can fairly easily show that this is not true and that my original statement is. I have not shown the quantitative values, but this will illustrate it. I quickly threw together a test. The city below was developed with the road connection shown, but with a population equal to the jobs demands so there was no commute to the other city tile. As can be seen at the point where a LARGE jump in commute time is where I added excess population so that they would commute to the jobs I had set up in the adjacent city tile. Clearly this cannot be explained by the 3 or 4 tiles added to the trip. The simulator is clearly adding a step function to the commute.

OK, so I developed the education, health, commerce and clean industry so that again there would be very low or no commute. Again I added a population jump so they would again commute to the adjacent city tile.. agiain the jump in commute times.

I believe this makes my case pretty strongly. If you have tests or data which refutes this, I'd be happy to take a  look at it. You can replicate my tests in about 15 minutes for yourself if you question the data.

If one wanted, they could develop a test to  show the quantitive values and show the actual increase in commute times in "time" (or simulator steps) but it would take a bit more care.

Edited image size - just a bit.

-CaptCity

[Korot 6]

Well, I remember that Z(1) had tests that proved otherwise. Also, the Commute time graph isn't know for being very accurate, so not that much data can be gained from it. In fact, the reason for the eternal commuter bug appearing has to do with sims not being but in the centre of the neighbouring tile, but at the edge, as that is the only way to get faster commute times. Also, the destination finder uses as the crow flies distances, and that assumes that the neighbour job is one tile in the neighbour city. The increase in commute time probably has to do with a commute time penalty for crossing the border, but that doesn't result in another route or job, as the destination is already set.

Thus, although the commute time increase would be roughly identical to having your job in the centre of the neighbour city tile, but the actual location is one tile into the next city.

Regards,

Korot

[SC4BOY 20]

I was an active participant in that discussion.. the point made was that the added distance to the adjacent city is not factored in by the destination part of the algorithm in deciding on whether to send a sim to an adjacent city, but it IS added by the pathfinder to the commute.. The fact that this is not factored in is sad, and arguably an error on Maxis' part.. it would prevent a lot of problems with abandonment and high commute times. It seems to be unmodifiable as well as it seems to be built into the exe.

And also it can be a very significant factor in job related building abandonment.. That is why the "z simulator" have long allowed commute time (4 hours to and 4 hours from work!!) so the buildings won't abandon so easily.. but trust me it is a factor in commutes (or don't trust me if you like) If you don't believe test cities and don't believe the game elements, just what sort of evidence do you plan to base your game play on?

Whether the commute graph "can be trusted" is not the point.. that discussion centered around whether the "commute" can be labeled in "real time" .. ie minutes, hours, etc.. Not on whether relative values obtained in the same city under 2 different commutes can be compared.

The reason it simply picks half the distance is because SC4, though posed as a "regional game" is only a slightly modified city game and hasn't got the "smarts" to look next door and see where the sim actually works.. it picks half as "good enough". Well I guess I'm not certain it is 1/2 because I'm not sure the city even knows the size of the adjacent tile, but certainly it is a "lump sum" .. I recall seeing a thread on this many years ago, but I cannot find the original quantitative thread, and in my old age I won't swear to it.. lol.. they say the memory is the second thing to go

[Sere 0]

A city counts commute time from and to it's borders. A traffic simulator does not need to add extra. Neighboring city will count commute time as well. But yes, only from and to it's border. And that's perfectly fine.